Episode 141 – Truth and Proof – Part 1 – Defending the Faith
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.
Acts, Chapter 17, verses 16 and 17, New International Version

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VK: Hello and Happy New Year! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you at the start of this New Year and we pray that this year will bring joy and blessings to all our listeners, especially the joy of having a closer fellowship with our Lord Christ Jesus. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to start the new year with a new – and frankly challenging – series of discussions. As just about everyone knows, the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last decade than probably in the first two centuries of the country’s existence. So, as we open up this New Year we want to tackle a subject that has particular relevance in our day and time –being able to demonstrate that the Christian faith has a firm basis in reason and evidence. To help us get started on addressing this very important topic we have RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, in the studio today. RD, why are we undertaking this series?
RD: We live in an age where our historical cultural consensus has shifted. Some commentators have said that we are now living in a “post-Christian” world. For people who are not believers this means that they live in a world that has gone “beyond” the constraints and “narrowness” of Christianity. Fewer people, as a percentage of the population, belong to churches than in generations past, and many of the mainline churches are experiencing declines not only in membership, but in influence on society, government, education, family, and the culture as a whole. As we look around us we see that young people are far more consumed by the death of an entertainer than the death and resurrection of Jesus. We also see that more people are consumed by concern for temporary pleasures than their eternal destiny. It seems that everywhere our societies are all about money, entertainment, personal freedom, free expression, anything goes – everywhere it’s Babylon: the city of Satan, where it’s “all about me.” This is obviously is dangerous to individual destinies but it is also dangerous to the destiny of our communities and nation.
VK: And this danger has been recognized for quite a while now, hasn’t it? In their 1994 book, Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli, who are both professors of the philosophy of religion at Boston College, said the following:
“Western civilization is for the first time in its history in danger of dying. The reason is spiritual. It is losing its life, its soul; that soul was the Christian faith. The infection killing it is not multiculturalism – other faiths – but the monoculturalism of secularism – no faith, no soul. Our century has been marked by genocide, sexual chaos and money-worship. Unless all the prophets are liars, we are doomed unless we repent. . .The church of Christ will never die, but our civilization will. If the gates of hell will not prevail against the church, this world certainly won’t. We do apologetics not to save the church, but to save the world.”
RD: Exactly. People within the church have been warning of the danger we’re facing for decades. So, we’ve titled this series “Truth and Proof” because in it we want to point people back to the eternal truth that there is a God and that God has a plan not only for people but for communities, nations, and the world. But we don’t want to just proclaim the truth, though that is obviously where we must start. We also want to explain the evidence and reasons behind our belief. That’s the “proof” part of the series. It’s not uncommon to hear people say in this day and age something like, “you trust in faith, but I trust in logic, reason, and science.” In doing so they are trying to trying to set logic, reason, and science in opposition to faith. As we’ve said many times on Anchored by Truth, that is a false dichotomy that tries to say that if you are a Christian and you believe in the Bible you have abandoned a reliance upon logic, reason, and evidence. Nothing, of course, could be further from the truth. Some of the greatest thinkers of the last two millennia and some of the greatest scientists of all time have been devout Christians.
VK: Well, before we go too much farther we want to acknowledge the person who originally inspired this particular series, Dr. Gregg Alexander. Dr. Alexander practiced medicine in Tallahassee, Florida for over 4 decades but more importantly for us, he led a Sunday school class in his church for more than 25 years. Dr. Alexander is extremely thoughtful and insightful. We are indebted to him for giving us much of the information we’re going to bring to listeners during this series.
RD: And Dr. Alexander will be joining us on several of the episodes during this series. As you said, he is thoughtful and insightful and even beyond that he is one of the clearest thinkers that I know. He has framed a mature, intelligent, and coherent Christian world view and in that regard I believe he sets an example that all believers would do well to emulate.
VK: So, where do you want to start? It sounds like we have a lot of material to discuss. So, let’s get to it.
RD: Well, I always think a good place to start is with defining some terms. So, earlier when you mentioned the book title, you used the word “apologetics,” and that’s a broad umbrella term for what we’re talking about. Apologetics can broadly be defined as “a defense for our faith.” Apologetics comes from a compound Greek word. Greek, like English, has compound words made of two or more other words. In this case the Greek words are apo, primarily used to mean “from;” and logos, primarily meaning, in its most generic sense, “word.” Logos is also commonly used in an expanded way to mean “reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, and calculating.” The Greek philosopher Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. The Apostle John’s used that same word in John 1:1.
VK: – The Gospel of John, chapter 1, verse 1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Apologetics means “from the mind,” and, in the sense of John 1:1 it means “from the mind of God.” We now use the term “apologetics” to mean the defense of the Christian faith.
RD: Right. But the simplicity of the definition masks the complexity of the problem of fully defining apologetics. It turns out that a diversity of approaches to defending the Christian faith that might be classified in some way as apologetics. There is no universal way of doing apologetics. And the approaches seem to be determined by the perspectives of individuals or groups. But there are some generally understood terms we can use to identify apologetic “categories.” Many scholars will recognize four basic approaches to apologetics: classical apologetics, evidential apologetics, pre-suppositional apologetics, and fideist apologetics. Each has a particular focus, and each has its champions. During this series we’re going to focus on the classical and evidential approaches because we think they are the approaches that people will connect with most easily.
VK: Our goal on Anchored by Truth is to help ordinary Christian believers develop a more mature Christian faith and especially to give them tools to help their children and grandchildren do so also. We know that our listeners are serious about their Christian faith and serious about wanting to understand the Bible better. But we also know that most listeners have very busy lives and may not have the time to sort through volumes of information that they might like to. So, what we try to do is take areas that pertain to Christianity and sift information for them and for you. We are not professional Christian apologists and we’re not going to become them. We suspect most of our listeners are the same. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t all learn enough to provide intelligent answers to reasonable questions that might come our way. Fifty years ago, and possibly 25 years ago if you told someone that you are a Christian, people didn’t think there was anything unusual about that. But a lot of has changed. Now it’s often not enough to simply know what you believe but you must know why you believe it.
RD: That is unfortunately true. Some commentators say that we are living in a post-Christian society. But I’m not interested in trying to characterize our society as much as I am in trying to change it. That’s what the gospel has always done. While overt unbelief is certainly more common today, in a certain sense every society throughout history has had plenty of unbelievers. That was certainly true in the early church but that didn’t stop the Apostles and first disciples from carrying the gospel to the ends of the earth.
VK: In fact, in Acts, chapter 19, verses 23 through 41 there is a description of a riot that occurred in the City of Ephesus. Many of the tradespeople in Ephesus were upset because of the increasing influence of the Christianity in their city because of the Apostle Paul’s ministry. Verses 23 through 26 tell us, “About that time there arose a great disturbance about the [Christianity]. A silversmith named Demetrius, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought in a lot of business for the craftsmen there. He called them together, along with the workers in related trades, and said: “You know, my friends, that we receive a good income from this business. And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that gods made by human hands are no gods at all.”
RD: And earlier in that same chapter the book of Acts says “This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord.” So, Paul’s ministry was so effective that in less than two years just about everybody in the Roman province of Asia had heard the gospel. Asia was a very large Roman province, the equivalent of one of our largest states. Yet, Paul accomplished that in a society that was openly hostile to Christianity. Paul did that because he knew not only what he believed but also why he believed it. As we heard in our opening scripture, Paul regularly reasoned with the people he encountered. We must be willing to do so today. So, as important as proclamation of the gospel is, explanation of the foundation for our belief in the gospel is now almost as important. That’s where apologetics steps in.
VK: Apologetics, as an area of study, can help us add the “why we believe” to the “what we believe.” A lot of people who hear the word “apologetics” may think that the whole idea of studying it might be intimidating. But you don’t believe that apologetics has to be intimidating. You strongly believe that a good understanding of some of the major apologetic ideas is available to all believers. You certainly don’t believe anyone has to go to a seminary or attend formal classes to obtain a basic understanding of apologetics, do you?
RD: No, I don’t. But that’s one of the reasons that as we are doing this “Truth and Proof” series that I don’t intend to spend much time on presuppositional apologetics. Presuppositional apologetics makes the presupposition of the authority of the Bible and the existence of God. It essentially argues that the starting point for demonstrating the existence of God is the presupposition that God exists and the Bible is authoritative.
VK: That sounds like a bit of a circular argument – an argument that assumes the truth of the proposition the argument intends to prove.
RD: Well, I think that’s one of the major problems for most people using presuppositional apologetics in witnessing to people. Just about any person who has even a basic understanding of logic will immediately point out that it sure looks like a circular argument. So, then the first thing the presuppositional apologist must do is show why it’s not circular. Now, I’ve heard skilled, professional presuppositional apologists do that, but frankly the way they go about it makes me believe most of us would never understand the argument well enough to present it effectively. Presuppositionalists try to show that worldviews that do not acknowledge the existence of God cannot be internally coherent.
VK: Which is a point that we made in our “Lord of Logic” series on Anchored by Truth.
RD: Yes. So, I don’t mean to dismiss presuppositional apologetics entirely. I think there are some interesting and valuable points that are contained within the line of reasoning. But I just don’t think it’s as helpful or easy to use as, for instance, what is sometimes termed “classical apologetics.”
VK: Classical apologetics places emphasis on reasoning and on the rational. It makes use of philosophy and science, and all forms of evidence. The key word is “reason” for it is rational. Historically, it was the form of apologetics used by Anselm of Canterbury and Thomas Aquinas. In the 20th century C.S. Lewis and Norman Geisler [GUY-SLUR] are two very well-known classical apologists. This is the approach that will mostly be using during this series.
RD: Yes. And we may do a little bit of evidential apologetics and historical apologetics. Evidential apologetics seeks evidence as its name indicates. The evidence can be historical, scientific, archaeologic, or even prophetic. The key word is “fact” because it is empirical. Historical apologetics can be seen as a specialized form of evidential apologetics. Historical apologetics stresses historical fact and evidence as the basis for demonstrating the truth of the Christian faith. We make use of this approach frequently on Anchored by Truth when we use of extra-Biblical or archeological evidence to demonstrate the historicity of the Bible. But we don’t confine ourselves to just historic evidence. For instance when we did our “Truth in Genesis” series we used an abundance of scientific evidence to show that the creation account contained in Genesis can be reasonably accepted as literal history.
VK: You also said that you don’t intend to do much with fideistic [FEE-DAY-IS-TIK] apologetics during this series.
RD: No. Fideist apologetics is based in sola fide which means “by faith alone.” The key word is, of course, “faith” for it is intuitive. Karl Barth was a 20th century apologist along these lines, and one who has had tremendous influence in some seminaries. Barth held that the Bible was a record of revelation, but not revelation in itself. Barth did not acknowledge the infallibility of scripture although he did claim scripture was a “gateway” to God. Norman Geisler says this about Barth and about fideism in general: “Fideism is unfounded. To argue that there are no rational supports for the Christian faith is self-destructive. It is an argument in support of a religious position claiming that arguments cannot be given in support of religious positions. Further, fideism may be internally consistent, but there is no indication of where it touches reality, so it is impossible to distinguish from falsehood.”
VK: And so the head scratching and headaches begin. What you’re saying is that a lot of different people have come up with different approaches to prove that God exists. But during this series we are not going to attempt to tackle all the different approaches. You want to confine yourself to just one or two of the approaches. Right?
RD: Right. And even the apologetic approaches we’re going to tackle we’re only going to be able to touch on the key points. There are people who spend their entire lives just on one of the approaches and there have been thousands of books written about them. But as we touched on earlier our goal on Anchored by Truth is to present discussions of these important topics that can assist everyday believers to have a more effective witness to a world that right now is wandering far from God.
VK: I guess you could say our approach to discussing the Christian faith is like the person who wants to be able to prepare a nice meal for their family. You can prepare tasty and nutritious dishes every day without attending culinary school. In fact many of us had mothers or grandmothers who made dishes we all remember and would happily eat again but who didn’t know the chemical difference between proteins and carbohydrates. But they knew what they needed to know to take care of their families and a lot of kids grew up “big and strong” based on those meals. And they knew how to make things that were not only good for you but tasted good. That’s what we want to do. We want people to understand that Christianity and a Christian worldview make sense. Sure, you don’t need to grasp apologetics thoroughly to be a devoted Christian. But in this day and age you need to know enough to provide some protection for your family.
RD: Yes. Seminary president Alex McFarland tells the story of a 40-something year old university professor who had a reputation of denying the existence of God, ridiculing Christianity, intimidating his students, and tying up others in philosophical knots. Alex tells it like this: “The professor ignored the offer of a handshake and then looked me over, sizing me up. ‘Give me a couple of hours and I can turn any Christian into an atheist. Even you.’ In 15 years of teaching the Bible and speaking hundreds of times throughout America, I had never met someone so openly angry and rude. I smiled at the professor and said, ‘Well, you and the devil are in the same business.’ I let that sink in, then added, ‘He’s just faster.’ ‘What do you mean?’ ‘In the Garden of Eden, Satan convinced Adam and Eve to doubt God,’ I explained. ‘Satan turned them into doubters and agnostics, but it took him only a couple of minutes.’ For the next couple of hours we sat in his home office and talked. Regardless of the conversation topic, the professor kept knocking down Christianity and its followers, calling them ignorant, uninformed, simpleminded believers. With just as much determination I kept reminding the professor about the reality of Jesus and of Jesus’ love for him personally. At one point, I leaned across the desk looking him directly in the eyes [and] said, ‘you are obviously very intelligent, and highly educated, and you say you’re an atheist. So doesn’t it strike you as odd that for two hours I’ve listened to you talk about someone who doesn’t exist?
VK: And the point that Alex’s story ended with is that this particular person – opposed as he was to Christianity, and openly hostile to it – was not ignorant of the arguments for God’s existence. He had given the “God-thing” some consideration, but he had rejected the appeals from the Holy Spirit to accept Christ into his life.
RD: Well, the story did have an unusual twist – one that is especially pertinent for us as we begin this particular series – and it went like this: “The professor said some things that have stuck with me: ‘In a way, I’m envious of people who can have faith. But what I can’t understand are these Christians who never learn anything about what they say they believe. If I ever did convert, I would learn everything possible about God.’” This professor – and everyone else – has to make a decision at some time in life concerning Jesus. Every one of us will develop some type of system to answer the questions inherent in all of us: Where did I come from? Why am I here – what is my purpose? And what happens when I die?
VK: So, in essence, our goal is to help listeners understand how to contend for their faith with certainty and confidence. We’re going to make no assumptions whatsoever of what anyone may, or may not, already know. We’re planning to start at the place where all knowledge starts – at the point of the absoluteness and the knowability of truth. We’ll be using the basic building blocks of knowledge and logic – called “first principles” – to lay a firm foundation on which we will erect a spiritual skyscraper. We want to show that any thinking person can prove the existence of God. This is the central truth of Romans, chapter 1, verse 18-20. “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”

RD: Well said. So, I think we should close with two thoughts. First, as we have often said on Anchored by Truth one of the reasons we want people to develop a stronger understanding of not only what they believe but why they believe it is because the world has become unbelievably dangerous for kids raised in Christian homes. Many surveys have reiterated the finding that up to 75% of the kids raised in Christian homes will lose their faith when they go off to college or out into the world. To prevent that from continuing we must do a better job of preparing our kids for what they encounter when the world says silly things like “you have faith, but I have science.” The second thought is that we cannot achieve the objective of helping people understand the basis for our faith without reminding ourselves that we can only accomplish our objective knowing that what is in our heads is not as important as the One Who is in our hearts. We will never assist the Holy Spirit in drawing anyone to Christ if we rely only on the objective and academic facts of Christianity. We are Christians called to the ministry of reconciliation, i.e., bridging the gap between Christ and those in need of knowing Him, and pulling the one who is unwilling toward the One who is always willing. And we must do these things as the apostles taught us – with patience, diligence, and love.
VK: Well, sounds like we’re in for quite a thought-provoking journey. Hopefully, not too many headaches. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer of praise of Adoration for the Creator God who set the cosmos into motion and established a home on the earth for His people as He prepares them for an eternity with Him in heaven.
---- PRAYER OF Adoration for the Creator
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
Acts, Chapter 17, verses 16 and 17, New International Version

Episode 142 – Truth and Proof – Part 2 – The Starting Point
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Second Timothy, Chapter 3, verses 16 and 17, New International Version
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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as we continue with our recently started series on Anchored by Truth that we’re calling “Truth and Proof.” As we mentioned last time this series was inspired by a teaching series that Dr. Gregg Alexander did for his Sunday school class and a few years ago. As just about everyone knows, the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last decade than probably in the first two centuries of the country’s existence. So, we wanted to follow Dr. Alexander’s lead and do a series on what is often called “apologetics” – in essence the defense of the Christian faith. Apologetics helps us demonstrate that the Christian faith has a firm basis in reason and evidence. To help us explore this very important topic today in the studio we have RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, in the studio today. RD, would you like to remind everyone why you felt that it was so important for us to do this series?
RD: Well, as we mentioned last time on Anchored by Truth, we live in an age where our historical cultural consensus has shifted. Some commentators have said that we are now living in a “post-Christian” world. For people who are not believers this means that they live in a world that has gone “beyond” the constraints and “narrowness” of Christianity. Mainline churches are experiencing declines not only in membership, but in influence on society, government, education, family, and the culture as a whole. And as we look around us we see that young people are far more consumed by what’s happening with popular celebrities than what happened with Jesus when He ministered on this earth. We also see that more people are more concerned about temporary pleasures than their eternal destiny. It seems that everywhere our societies are all about money, entertainment, free expression, anything goes – everywhere it’s Babylon: the city of Satan, where it’s “all about me.” This is obviously is dangerous to individual destinies but it is also dangerous to the destiny of our communities and nation. That’s why it’s so important for the church to remind everyone around us that this kind of cultural calculus is not only dangerous, it’s unsustainable. But we in the church need to remember that our primary mission is one of reconciliation – reconciliation between men and God. So we don’t want to lose sight of the need to marry our intellectual defense of Christianity with our intentional concern for the welfare of our neighbors.
VK: That’s a great point. At the close of our last episode we mentioned that we cannot help people understand the basis for our faith without reminding ourselves of the importance of both head knowledge and heart concerns. There’s an old saying that “people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” Or, as Dr. Alexander put it in one of his lessons, knowing what is in our heads is not as important as the One Who is in our hearts. We will never assist the Holy Spirit in drawing anyone to Christ if we rely only on the objective and academic facts of Christianity. Christians called to the ministry of reconciliation, i.e., bridging the gap between Christ and those in need of knowing Him, and pulling the one who is unwilling toward the One who is always willing. And we must do these things as the apostles taught us – with patience, diligence, and love.
RD: I think that’s always an important reminder. The primary reason apologetics is an important area of study is because of its relevance to salvation. And, unfortunately, that’s never been truer than in this day and time. We live in an age where our historical cultural consensus has shifted. In this “post-Christian” world many people who are not believers don’t see the relevance of Christianity to their daily lives. They think that they make whatever choices they make and their will never be a day of reckoning. Unfortunately, they are completely unaware of Jesus’ warning in Matthew, chapter 7, verses 13 and 14 which says we need to “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
VK: But it doesn’t have to be this way, does it? The power of the gospel is to change the destiny of individuals and the trajectory of societies. Now, I know that Dr. Alexander is quite of a fan of Norman Geisler who was one of the premier apologists of the last 50 years and you share much of his admiration for Geisler don’t you? And both of you particularly like Geisler’s views on why apologetics is important to the church. Why don’t you share a little of that with our audience?
RD: According to Geisler we study apologetics for three reasons: First, God commands it in the Bible. 1st Peter 3:15 is probably the most frequently cited verse on why we need to arm ourselves with why, as the verse puts it, “we have a hope that lies within us.” But another verse is 2nd Corinthians 10:5 – “We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” There’s also Philippians 1:16 – “. . . I am put here for the defense of the gospel.” And Jude 3 – “I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.” And these are just a sample of verses that command us to be prepared to give reasons our faith in the gospel.
VK: And not only does God command us to be able to defend our faith – because that’s the basic purpose of apologetics – but Geisler says our human ability to reason also make apologetics necessary.
RD: That’s correct. Geisler says, that the second purpose for apologetics is that reason demands that we do it and this is demonstrated in scripture. Isaiah 1:18 – “‘Come now, let us reason together,’ says the Lord.” We must discern right from wrong, as we see in 1st John 4:6 – “We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.” Again from Geisler: “Socrates said, ‘The unexamined life is not worth living.’ He surely would have been willing to add that the unexamined belief is not worth believing. Therefore, it is incumbent upon Christians to give a reason for their hope. This is part of the great command to love God with all our mind, as well as our heart and soul (Matt. 22:36–37).”
VK: So, the first reason we pursue apologetics is because the Bible commands it. And the second reason is because reason, really nothing more than good common sense, compels us to do so. It’s hard for human beings to place their trust in something that goes against that common sense. The human facility for logic and reason means that if something doesn’t make good sense most people are far more likely to reject it than accept it.
RD: That’s also correct. And, that feeds directly into the third reason Geisler says we do apologetics: “the world needs it.” People rightly refuse to believe without evidence. Since God created humans as rational beings, he expects them to live rationally, to look before they leap. This does not mean there is no room for faith. But God wants us to take a step of faith in the light of evidence, rather than to leap in the dark.
VK: And we often point out on Anchored by Truth that the belief that there is a “great divide” between faith and reason is a myth. And you agree with that don’t you?
RD: Absolutely. As Dr. Alexander noted, reason can be defined as “all the subjective and personal acts of our mind by which we discover, understand, or seek to demonstrate truth.” If faith is in that which is true, and if reason is the product of the human mind to discover truth, shouldn’t they agree? Aren’t they both ending at the same place? The answer is “Yes,” even for things that the human mind cannot discover, e.g., the Trinity. In that case, faith is not contradictory to reason, but is over and above reason. And in many cases it is reason that precedes faith, for Christianity is based on the actual historic Christ being the actual Christ of the Bible, and, therefore, we do not have “blind faith,” but faith which is supported by reasoning and reasons. We study the Bible in order to understand (reason) what we believe (faith). Reason doesn’t necessarily cause faith, but faith is not opposed to reason.
VK: I think that’s such an important point. The world, meaning the secular world, does not have a monopoly on reason. In fact some of the greatest thinkers and scientists of all time were devout Christians. So where do you want to start for today?
RD: Well, with a seemingly simple point: truth is knowable. Now, I know that seems simplistic but in our time not only is Christianity frequently under attack but so is the basic concept that truth is absolute and knowable. But, if our ultimate goal is to establish the truth of Christianity, we better start by talking about what truth is, and what we can know about it.
VK: And the fact that truth is absolute and knowable is not just exclusive to Christianity, is it? Even non-Christian philosophers have recognized the importance of truth in securing knowledge, haven’t they?
RD: Absolutely. One of those philosophers was Aristotle who was born in that Intertestamental Period in the year 384 BC. I mention him because he taught us how to think properly about reality, and, therefore, about the question of God’s existence. Aristotle discovered principles that are the undeniable principles of reality – principles that are referred to as the first principles of knowledge. Using these principles he formalized a system of correct thinking that we call logic. Logic is an instrument of human knowledge; it is a skillful use of the principles that govern how the mind works – and how God’s mind works. Logic imitates God’s mind, and from it we can not only learn about what we are, but what we should be. Aristotle tells us “Wisdom is knowledge about certain principles and causes,” and “Truth is what is, and is not what is not.” This is the starting point for the correspondence theory of truth, i.e., truth is absolute and corresponds to what is real.
VK: And you have said that Aristotle’s influence on Christian apologetics is immensely important. He entered Plato’s academy in about 367 BC and stayed there until Plato’s death in 347 BC. He was the personal teacher of Alexander the Great beginning in about 342 BC. And because Aristotle was so influential on Alexander the Great as Alexander’s influence spread so did Aristotle’s, Aristotle’s teaching on the physical sciences, psychology, philosophy, and logic spread along with the Greek language and culture throughout the known world. In Anchored by Truth’s series on the Intertestamental period we pointed out how God used the spread of the Greek language and culture as part of His preparation for Jesus’ arrival into the world.
RD: I agree. And one way in which Aristotle’s influence was felt on apologetics was Aristotle’s influence on Thomas Aquinas. But let’s back up for just a second. Aristotle’s view of God came from his view of the nature of reality, called metaphysics, but his view of “god(s)” certainly was not that of the Creator as understood by the Jews. Aristotle didn’t have at his disposal the personal revelation of God as it had been given to the Jews. Therefore, he understood God in the Romans 1:19-20 sense as being a logical necessity in order to explain the cosmos. Aristotle did not understand the God of love and concern for creation – he simply saw “God” as necessary, and he felt very comfortable proving it. And, for Aristotle, “god” was Pure Thought, Pure Intelligence.
VK: So, how does Aristotle tie into Aquinas?
RD: Because Aristotle’s work – much of which was lost for centuries – ended up being the launching pad for the philosophy – not the theology – of Thomas Aquinas. Aquinas (1225-1274) considered himself indebted to Aristotle for the principles of his philosophy, but Aquinas was not a “Christianized Aristotle.” He did not hesitate to criticize Aristotle when the revealed Truth of Christianity required it. Aristotle was concerned with what the world is and how it functions. Aquinas was more concerned to explain why it exists. And one advantage Aquinas had that Aristotle did not was access to the Old Testament. Aquinas undoubtedly refuted Aristotelianism for at least one reason: the proclamation by God of His Name in Exodus 3:14 – “I AM WHO I AM.”
VK: As a reminder to our audience, God’s proclamation “I am who I am” was a direct response to Moses asking God for His name. Moses was concerned that if went down into Egypt to say to the Israelites that God had told him to bring freedom to them they would want to know who exactly had sent him to them. So, God answered Moses with what is one of the most famous verses in the Bible: “I am who I am.” In Hebrew this conveyed by the word “Yahweh” and in Greek it’s “Jehovah.” But in addition to Yahweh being God’s name, the term actually tells us something very important. “I am who I am” is a way of God identifying Himself by His unique quality of self-existence. God is the only Being anywhere who is self-existent. All other Beings are dependent on God for their lives and existence including the angels, Satan and his minions, and mankind. But God is not dependent on anyone or anything for His existence. God made that point forcefully to Moses and the Israelites by His declaration at the burning bush. And what you’re saying is that Aquinas knew about that declaration and it’s quite likely that Aristotle did not?
RD: Exactly. Aristotle was not in any way influenced by the writings of some old dead Jew, and he died 322 years before Christ was born. But that didn’t stop Aristotle from being able to arrive at a correct understanding of the nature of truth. Just by using logic and reason Aristotle was able to develop an understanding of truth – that truth is that it is what really is, and it isn’t what really is not. Or said differently, truth is that which corresponds to reality. Truth is not defined by individual opinion – it is what is even if we can’t accept it, or understand it, or don’t have enough evidence to prove it.
VK: But we can know truth can’t we? And a simple way know that we can know the truth is to begin by following the line of reasoning developed by the French mathematician, Rene’ Descartes [DAY-CART]. Descartes wanted an absolutely rock-solid starting place to begin his understanding of the universe around him. So, simply put Descartes said that he could be sure that he at least existed because if he didn’t he couldn’t be asking the question or answering it. Now, someone might ask, “But what if this thing we call ‘existence’ is just an illusion?” We could reply in the same way that Ravi Zacharias did when he was asked that question. Ravi answered the question with his own question. “And just who is it that is experiencing this illusion?” Descartes put it this way, “I am thinking, therefore I am.” Descartes’ reasoning was that there must be something in existence before that something can do anything. Thinking is doing something. So, Descartes said if I can think then I can be sure that I exist. And that was his starting point to begin establishing a wider understanding of the universe, creation, and existence.
RD: Yes. Descartes was able to find an irrefutable truth to being his reasoning process. And so, like Descartes, by knowing that at least one thing is true we can begin our search for other truths. Geisler puts it this way. “The nature of truth is crucial to the Christian faith. Not only does Christianity claim there is absolute truth (truth for everyone, everywhere, at all times), but it insists that truth about the world (reality) is that which corresponds to the way things really are. For example, the statement “God exists” means that there really is a God . . . Likewise, the claim that “God raised Christ from the dead” means that the dead corpse of Jesus of Nazareth supernaturally vacated its tomb alive a few days after its burial. . . Christian truth claims really correspond to the state of affairs about which they claim . . . Truth can be understood both from what it is and from what it is not.
VK: So, we can know that truth exists but that’s not enough, is it. Geisler also noted that there are many inadequate views of the nature of truth. For instance, truth is not ‘what works.’ That was a popular theory advocated by a well-known pragmatist, William James. James and his followers said that truth is what works. According to James, “Truth is the expedient in the way of knowing. A statement is known to be true if it brings the right results. It is the expedient as confirmed by future experience and effect.” Of course, this doesn’t seem to be how truth is understood in court where an expedient testimony may be perjury. It’s possible to still wonder whether a statement corresponded to the facts. In a court, if a statement does not correspond to the facts, it was not true regardless of whether it’s expedient.
RD: Exactly right. Geisler noted that truth is also not ‘that which coheres.’ Some scholars have suggested that truth is what is internally consistent, i.e., it is coherent. But this is also an inadequate definition. Empty statements hang together, even though they are devoid of truth content. ‘All wives are married women’ is internally consistent, but it is empty. It tells us nothing about reality. The statement would be true, even if there were no wives. It really means, ‘If there is a wife, then she must be married.’ But it does not inform us that there is a wife anywhere in the universe. A set of false statements also can be internally consistent. If several witnesses conspire to misrepresent the facts, their story may cohere better than if they were honestly trying to reconstruct the truth. But it still is a lie. At best, coherence is a negative test of truth. Statements are wrong if they are inconsistent, but not necessarily true if they are.
VK: So, to sum up, “Truth about reality is what corresponds to the way things really are: ‘telling it like it is.’ This correspondence applies to abstract realities as well as actual ones. There are mathematical truths. There are also truths about ideas. In each case there is a reality, and truth accurately expresses it. Falsehood, then, is what does not correspond to the way things really are.” This means that if it lacks proper correspondence, it is false.”
RD: Yes. And another important point about this correspondence view of truth is that it cannot be denied without using it. In other words, as we put it in our “Lord of Logic” series the correspondence view of truth is affirmed in dissent. In other words the premise must be true because an argument that attempts to rebut the premise must presume the truth of the premise in the attempted rebuttal.
VK: I think we’re going to need an example of what you’re thinking about.
RD: Here’s an example of a statement that cannot be rationally denied. “Human beings use language to communicate.” If someone were to try to deny that statement they would have to use some kind of language to present their denial. As soon as they did so they are proving the statement is true. So, there is literally no way the statement can be reasonably or rationally denied. The same thing is true of the correspondence view of truth. Anyone who tried to deny it assumes their view corresponds to reality, i.e., those who deny it in theory, use it in practice. One may say, “but that’s just your view of truth.” Your response could be, “does that statement correspond to reality?”
VK: So, absolute truth means it is true for all people, all places, all the time. The term “relative truth” isn’t truth at all, for it claims that something is true for some people, but not all people; or true in some places, but not all places; or some time, but not all the time. Truth is not “what works;” what is cohesive, consistent, or coherent Truth must have these qualities, but these things do not make something true. Truth is not what is comprehensive; not what feels good; not what the majority think or want. Truth is not what is sincere, for it is possible to be sincerely wrong.
RD: Yes. And one final important point is that there are biblical arguments for the correspondence view of truth. The ninth commandment is, “you shall not give false testimony about your neighbor” (Exodus 2:16), i.e., tell it like it is. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 – “You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken.” So, the Bible clearly affirms that truth is not only corresponds to reality but that it is possible to know the truth.
VK: Not only that but we rely on the fact that truth is what corresponds to reality every day of our lives. In our daily conversation, we might say “check out the facts.” And in courtrooms all over the country the existence and knowability of truth is affirmed every time someone swears to “tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We use correspondence as the rule for truth in our daily lives and we use it all the time.
RD: Right. Now at this point I’d like to note that anyone who would like to investigate this topic of truth and its role in apologetics might want to check out The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics which was written by Norman Geisler. I have a copy in my library and I know Dr. Alexander does as well. And before we close I’d like to recognize that some of the material we’re discussing in this series can sound pretty esoteric but today Christians who want to have an impact on their families, much less the culture, need to be able to provide intelligent answers to skeptics because they’re all about us.
VK: So, in essence, our goal is to help listeners understand how to contend for their faith with certainty and confidence. We’re making no assumptions whatsoever of what anyone may, or may not, already know. We want to show that any thinking person can prove the existence of God. This is the central truth of Romans, chapter 1, verse 18-20. “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer of praise of Adoration for the Creator God who set the cosmos into motion and established a home on the earth for His people as He prepares them for an eternity with Him in heaven.
---- PRAYER FOR THE SPIRITUALLY LOST
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
Second Timothy, Chapter 3, verses 16 and 17, New International Version

Episode 143 – Truth and Proof – Part 3 – Objections to Knowing Truth
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Romans, Chapter 1, verses 18 through 20
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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as we continue with our recently started series on Anchored by Truth that we’re calling “Truth and Proof.” As we mentioned in our first couple of episodes this series was inspired by a teaching series that Dr. Gregg Alexander did for his Sunday school class a few years ago. And I’m pleased to announce that today we are joined by Dr. Alexander to help us push deeper into why Christians can be so confident that the Christian faith has a firm basis in reason and evidence. Dr. Alexander was a practicing physician for more than xx years but more importantly he has taught an adult Sunday school class for more than 25 years. Dr. Alexander, would you like to introduce yourself to the Anchored by Truth audience?
Gregg: It’s a pleasure to be with you today. I really admire the fact that Anchored by Truth has devoted itself to supporting and demonstrating the inspiration and infallibility of scripture. I am also grateful that you decided to do this series on “Truth and Proof.” As you mentioned several years ago I wanted to help my Sunday school students begin to understand that Christianity is a faith that is not only supported by logic and reason but also that logic and reason properly applied can help lead people into a deeper relationship with Jesus.
VK: We agree. In our first couple of episodes we’ve also mentioned that the primary reason we think apologetics is an important area of study for Christians is because apologetics can be used to support evangelism. And this particularly true in today’s culture when it seems as though we’ve lost some of the common touchpoints about truth and faith that used to be accepted without question.
Gregg: I think that’s true. Years ago, if you said to someone in our nation that such-and-such a principle was important because it was in the Bible, no one thought anything about your statement. But today, if you encounter a non-believer and fall back on the authority of the Bible the other person is likely to say, “well, I don’t believe in the Bible and I don’t accept its authority.” So, then the believer is faced with the question of where do you go from there? Questions like that are why studying apologetics can be very useful for people like us, and be for the eternal benefit of others. If you know why the Bible is authoritative for all persons – not just for believers – and if the other person is a sincere seeker who will listen to you, then there is a chance that that person may be saved – and that is the purpose of apologetics, evangelism, and a big part of the Christian life. Christianity is a faith that is “other-directed.” 1st Chronicles 28:9 says, “for the Lord searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you . . .” In my series I set out to prove the truth of that verse.
VK: So, in this series on Anchored by Truth we began in the same place as your Sunday school series - with the building blocks of apologetics. We started with the things that everyone can understand regardless of what they already know, or think they know, about religion in general, and Christianity in particular. And last time we spent a lot of our time talking about truth. After all, we want people to understand that the Bible is true and accurate in matters pertaining to fact and history. But emphasizing that the Bible is true would be meaningless if truth didn’t exist in the first place.
Gregg: That’s a very important point for people to understand. Too often today you hear people say something like “you have your truth and that’s fine for you but that’s not my truth.” When people say that, they have committed the sin or equivocation. They have used the word “truth” as an improper substitute for the word “opinion” or “preference.” Real truth is always absolute. It is not subject to whims, opinions, or individual or group preferences. You wouldn’t think that would be a controversial concept but today is often is. One of the most important services the church can provide society today is the simple reminder that truth exists, is knowable, and absolute. People who reject this basic concept not only create peril for language and communication. They are in grave peril for their souls. The Bible clearly teaches the correspondence view of truth. The ninth commandment is, “you shall not give false testimony about your neighbor” (Exodus 2:16), i.e., tell it like it is. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 – “You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?’ 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken.” I know you covered some of this last time.
VK: We did. So, today we want to continue from where we left off last time. As you’ve mentioned today there are objections to the existence of absolute truth. I know you covered those in your Sunday school class. Why don’t we get into some of what you covered?
Gregg: Well, one frequent objection to the existence of absolute truth is that we can have only probabilities, not certainties. In other words, someone might contend that we can never attain the degree of certainty in our minds that we can be sure anything is true. The response to this objection can be found in that there are certain truths that cannot be reasonably denied. For instance, neither I nor anyone else can deny that I exist. If someone tried to deny that I exist the immediate question would be “what’s the point of making the denial?” Similarly, you cannot reasonably deny that there are no square circles or four-sided triangles. Those things are true formally by definition. Furthermore, something can be absolutely true even if there is not enough evidence to prove it. Evidence, or the lack of it, doesn’t change a fact.
VK: We addressed some similar points in our “Lord of Logic” series which is available through most major podcasting apps. But I think this is a good reminder that the concepts we are discussing now are fundamental to all correct thinking and logic. What are some other objections people use to object to the existence of truth?
Gregg: Another frequent objection to the existence of absolute truth is that comparisons show that truth is relative, i.e., comparisons change depending on what things are being compared. The response to this objection is relative comparisons are absolutely true insofar as they are accurate. In other words the moment you try to state the results of the comparison you are now stating a conclusion you believe to be true, not merely comparatively true. A third objection people make about truth is that we “grow in truth.” The idea here is that truth is not absolute but rather always partial and incomplete. They will often say something like “science proves that the truth is always changing.”
VK: And I will bet that you have an answer to this third objection as well.
Gregg: Well, the response is that our understanding of truth will certainly change but not the truth itself. We learn more from science daily and not just science but from many other intellectual disciplines. But it is not the truth that is changing but our improving awareness of the truths that always existed. We discover truth with science, but we don’t change it. We change from error to truth. When Sir Isaac Newton first stated certain truths about the nature of gravity nothing about gravity changed. Gravity didn’t start behaving differently just because Newton presented a better description of its behavior and relevance within the physical universe. Newton helped us understand the truth about gravity’s effects better the truth about gravity didn’t change in any way. So, again this objection fails as a meaningful critique of the existence of absolute truth.
VK: I’ve heard some people say that the conception that absolute truths exist is unnecessarily constricting. I guess they might say that absolute truth is too narrow an intellectual premise to be, well, true.
Gregg: Like the responses to the first three objections, the response to this objection is straightforward when you think about it. Let’s look at a simple example. What is the correct answer to the math question of 2 + 2? 2 + 2 equals 4 for all people all the time. It always has. It always will. That’s about as “narrow” as it gets, but it’s also true. And the same thing is true for all statements of fact whether they are physical, historical, mathematical, etc. True statements are not just narrow. They’re unique. George Washington was the first president of the United States and no matter how many presidents follow him he will always be the first – the one and only first. And our embrace of the narrowness of truth is not only important. It is also essential to a livable world. The builder who adds 2 + 2 and gets 3 and then proceeds to put a beam in a building that’s too short will very quickly get a reminder of the consequences of ignoring the absolute nature of truth.
VK: What would you say then to people who claim that absolute truth claims are too dogmatic to be acceptable to most people? Today’s society seems to embrace “tolerance” above just about everything else.
Gregg: The first thing we should do is define what it means to be dogmatic. A common definition of dogmatic might be “characterized by or given to the expression of opinions very strongly or positively held as if they were facts.” So, I would say “yes, absolute truth claims are dogmatic, because a true claim is a fact. So, we should treat it as a fact. An objective fact is going to be a fact regardless of subjective feeling about the fact. I want to distinguish, however, between the truth claim, the fact itself, and the truth claimer – the person holding on to the truth. The truth claim itself is “dogmatic” because it is a fact but that doesn’t mean “truth claimers” must be unpleasant in doggedly proclaiming the truth. We can and should be humble and respectful when we hold in a determined way to the truth. Still, the truth is truth even if expressed in the wrong manner; error is error even if expressed humbly.
VK: I think that’s a great distinction. We Christians are called to proclaim the truth with love and concern for others. It’s sometimes said that Christians must be “winsome” as we engage the world. Winsome is an old word that’s hardly ever used anymore. It means charming, cheerful, pleasant, and even joy-creating. So, it’s possible for us to be determined and persistent – dogmatic if you will – in our proclamation of the truth while not having to be unpleasant as we go about it. So, what else do the Anchored by Truth listeners need to know about objections that are raised against the existence of absolute truth?
Gregg: I taught my Sunday school class that in addition to specific objections about the existence of absolute truth, there are also various views and philosophies that deny the absoluteness of truth.
VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about?
Gregg: A particularly common philosophy or attitude in our day and age that denies the absoluteness of truth is skepticism. Skepticism claims that we should suspend judgment on everything, that we should doubt all truth claims. Anyone who listens to news or so called “educational” programming will quickly realize that skepticism about historic, orthodox Christianity and traditional values and views abounds, though there is certainly plenty of dogmatism on anything that challenges those values. That observation aside, skeptics will assert philosophically that reason demands that we simply must doubt any and all truth claims.
VK: But of course you don’t agree with this claim and neither should any thinking Christian?
Gregg: No, of course not. Skepticism is self-refuting. If we are to doubt every truth claim we must doubt skepticism. Skepticism says we must doubt all truth claims but then tries to exempt itself from its own standard. So, the skeptic wants to claim that skepticism is the only knowable truth yet provides no reasoned basis for supporting its exemption from the standard it establishes.
VK: That does seem to be a real problem. What other philosophies deny the absoluteness of truth?
Gregg: Agnosticism is another philosophy that denies that absolute truth exists. There are two forms of agnosticism. The strong form of agnosticism affirms that all truth is unknowable. The soft form of agnosticism says that at least we can’t know reality even if we can know appearances. I would respond to agnosticism in this way. The “father of modern agnosticism” is Immanuel Kant. All of philosophy was shaken by his success in convincing many others that we can’t know the truth about reality. His philosophy is fascinating, but it is self-defeating. Kant claims as a truth that we cannot know absolute truth. If he is correct in his belief then he – and we – can’t even know the truth of his own statement; and if he is wrong we have no reason to even care about his philosophy.
VK: That was a point that we made many times in our “Lord of Logic” series. The statement “There is no such thing as absolute truth” is self-refuting. Just as you observed about skepticism it fails the very standard it tries to establish.
Gregg: A good rule for Christians to master is: “every negative presupposes a positive.” Let me restate that to make sure our audience gets a chance to absorb it. “Every negative presupposes a positive.” You can’t doubt something, the negative, without there first being the thing you’re doubting, the positive. One obvious example of this is that someone who says, “there is no truth,” presupposes the truth of his own statement. Another very common philosophy that makes a jumbled mess out of truth and the absolute character of truth is pluralism. Of course, pluralism is rampant all around us today.
VK: I think that most people would say that’s a good thing. At least the word “pluralism” sounds like something we ought to support – just about like tolerance.

Gregg: There’s an old saying that “it’s good to keep an open mind but don’t let your mind be so open that your brains fall out.” That’s what happens with pluralism. Pluralism affirms all so-called “truths” – even opposites. This is typical of many Eastern religions as well as many prevailing cultural and politically trendy views. But it is inescapable that the opposite of true is false. The pluralist view often degenerates to the position that whatever is sincerely believed is said to be true, but sincerity is not a test for truth. As Norman Geisler says, “A member of the Flat Earth Society may be sincere, but he is sincerely wrong.”
VK: Pluralism is one of those tricky words. It has a tendency to shift shapes depending on whose using it. Plural simply means “multiple” or “having more than one.” So, in many areas of life, like ice cream flavors, plural choices are a good thing. The problem arises when you add the “ism” to the plural. Accepted literally, “pluralism” means that someone could claim to hold onto views that are directly contradictory. That turns thinking and communication into a meaningless hash of ideas from which neither truth or sense would ever emerge. What’s next?
Gregg: Relativism denies absolute truth. The philosopher Alfred North Whitehead held the view that reality has no unchanging forms. This was the opposite of Plato. Whitehead also said that all truth is in the process of changing and is never found because that to which a truth claim is made is always changing, i.e., the essence of reality is change. Whitehead’s philosophy is the source of Process Theology – which is very common in some liberal seminary thinking, and championed by theologians like John Cobb.
VK: And like pluralism, relativism is all around us today not only in religious discussions but also in political and cultural ones.
Gregg: And it is equally hazardous to your mental health and fitness in all of its manifestations. Like the other critiques which we have been making, relativism either affirms that relativism is absolutely true – in which case it is self-defeating – or else its claim is just another relative statement for which there is no reason to believe it or accept it. As you said relativism reduces attempts to think clearly and form a coherent worldview into an impossible hash of irreconcilable claims and concepts. Well, a final philosophy that rejects the absolute nature of truth that we should discuss is post-modernism. Post-modernism avoids all truth claims and makes no truth claims. This is a radical extreme of relativism and pluralism. The idea of post-modernism – which is seen in literature, philosophy, and even architecture – is seen in the atheist Jacques Derrida, the father of “deconstructionism,” i.e., meaning anything expressed by one person can be, and should be, deconstructed by the hearer and reconstructed to meet his needs. Therefore, language is understood in the context of the hearer, not the speaker, and there is no objective meaning.
VK: Yikes. The dangers of stripping the objective meaning from words – or saying that words only mean what the hearer says they mean – pretty much does away with responsible conversation. Anything anyone says can be misconstrued or misinterpreted if the hearer simply wants to. That will certainly have a chilling effect on people being able to have meaningful dialogues on any subjects other than trivial ones.
Gregg: That’s absolutely correct. With Derrida simple conversations can have disastrous implications for any and all speakers. Moreover, any meaningful philosophy comes to an end, for his philosophy self-destructs as it deconstructs. Post-modernism fails because it either makes a truth claim – which would be contradictory and self-defeating – or it makes no truth claim, and is not, therefore, in the game of truth. By its own keywords – “whatever,” “so what” – it mocks truth and falls apart. Ideas have consequences, and we use language to express ideas. Communication and conversation are essential to learning and growth so when only one side controls the conversation progress and learning stop. Listen to these words: “Let me control the textbooks, and I will control the state . . . when an opponent declares ‘I will not come over to your side,’ I will calmly say, ‘What are you? You will pass on. Your descendents, however, stand in the new camp.’” Who made that statement? Answer: Adolph Hitler. The rise of post-modernism is a truly ominous turn in the spread of truth including Biblical and gospel truth.
VK: That’s unbelievably sad and unbelievably dangerous. If, as you said, post-modernism constricts or stops the spread of truth ultimately it stops the spread of knowledge. Yet, the spread of knowledge, scientific and otherwise, is what produced a modern world where we enjoy so many benefits of the advancements in technology and science.
Gregg: I told my Sunday school class to give some thought for a few minutes to the times of the Old Testament - to go back to some of the things in recorded history that most people agree on. Secular history tells us that there were civilizations in Egypt and Babylon and China and Canaan and the Mediterranean area we call Greece around the timeframe of 2500-2200 BC. Abraham was born around 2000 BC. The Exodus was around 1500-1450 BC; the Law given to Moses was probably around 1450 BC; David becomes king around 1000 BC; the last book of the OT, Malachi, around 400 BC. And then God was “quiet” for 400 years. In the time frame of the Old Testament there were the Empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, and Persia. In the 400 “quiet years,” i.e., the “Intertestamental Years,” there emerged the Empires of Greece and Rome. Obviously, a lot was going on in the world. The Parthenon was built in 442 BC; the Great Wall of China was built between 263-233 BC. My point is this: people knew how to think in those days. There was nothing backward about their intellectual capacity. They didn’t have the technology that we do but they built impressive empires and structures. And a large part of the reason we have the technology that we do is because we “stand on the shoulders of giants” who have come before us. They people of those times knew that truth existed and despite a lack of the technology that we have today they still had accomplishments that cause us to marvel today.
VK: That’s a great point. Despite our technological sophistication our generation doesn’t have a monopoly on the ability to reason and make accurate observations about the created order. We may be able to send messages around the world in an instant whereas it took the ancients days or weeks. But that doesn’t mean the content of our messages necessarily makes more sense. Transmitting nonsense or error more quickly doesn’t mean error becomes truth or nonsense makes sense. We have improved technological abilities today but that does not mean we have improved reasoning skills. Nor, sadly does it mean that people have become more virtuous or godly. Thankfully, there are many, many people being saved around the world every day but those believers are not more saved than those that Jesus preached to. And the lost today are going to be just as lost. That’s the primary reason we do these Anchored by Truth episodes. We want to save as many as people as possible and they only way to do that is to point them to the real “Anchor of Truth.”
Gregg: Of course those of us who do present the gospel are well aware that we can never be the reason anyone is saved – that’s God’s job. But we can introduce one of the parties – the unbelieving one – to the other One. Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44); and He said, “But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself” (John 12:32). That’s the good news. The sobering news is what was included in the scripture you used in the opening. Certainly, some of the most sobering verses in the entire Bible are what Paul said in Romans 1:20 – “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” That part about unbelievers having no excuse should motivate us to increase our efforts in evangelism and motivate those who haven’t accepted Christ as their Savior to think very carefully about that choice.

VK: Well, sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for restoration of the worship of the one true God to our communities and nation since it is only through that restoration that our unsaved friends and neighbors have the hope for salvation.
---- PRAYER FOR RESTORATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
Romans, Chapter 1, verses 18 through 20

Episode 144 – Truth and Proof – Part 4 – The Basics of Logic
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD…
Isaiah, Chapter 1, verse 18, English Standard Version
********
VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we’re going to continue with the series we recently started on Anchored by Truth that we calling “Truth and Proof.” As we mentioned in our first couple of episodes this series was inspired by a teaching series that Dr. Gregg Alexander did for his Sunday school class a few years ago. The reason we call this series truth and proof is because we’re going through a step-by-step reasoning process to show that it is possible to know the truth and prove that the Christian faith is strongly supported by logic, reason, and evidence. We’re following Dr. Alexander’s teaching approach because he did a magnificent job of clearly establishing the truth and proof of the Christian faith. I’m in the studio today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, where are we headed today?
RD: I’d also like to welcome all the listeners today and thank them for joining us. This is another one of the series that we do that requires our listeners to really engage their brains and think more deeply about their faith. We know this can take some extra effort but we strongly believe that those who do it will be richly rewarded – not only because they will come a deeper and richer understanding of their faith but also because they are being obedient to the command that Jesus gave in the Gospel of Mark, chapter 12, verse 30.
VK: In the New Living Translation that verse says “And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.” So, this series is one in which we are certainly giving listeners a chance to love the Lord with all their minds.
RD: That is definitely true. But in diving more deeply into the underpinnings of their faith the listeners are also making a determined effort – that’s strength. And they are demonstrating that they want a deeper relationship with the author of their salvation – so that is expressing their heart’s desire.
VK: And the reason we believe they will be rewarded is because all of that represents one form of obedience to the Lord. And the Lord rewards obedience. And in a certain sense it is as hard, or harder, to be obedient to the Lord when it comes to the use of our time and minds as it is with the use of our money.
RD: That is also true. A lot of time when we think about what we are called to give to the Lord we think primarily in terms of our money. Or sometimes we may think of our time – whether we volunteer at church, or a homeless shelter, or at a crisis pregnancy center. All of those are certainly important. But when we apply ourselves to studying our faith there is a sense in which we are giving to the Lord in a more personal and intimate way. It takes a minute or two to write a check or do an online donation. Serving at church or a parachurch ministry takes more time but it may not engage our minds. I can mow the church lawn or help with the bake sale and not fully engage my mind. And I certainly don’t want to diminish the importance of doing any of that. But when I sit down to study the Bible, the background and meaning of the texts, and especially when I prepare myself to be a better witness to my friends and neighbors – that can be hard, really hard.
VK: So, the people who do it are truly showing where their priorities lie. And studying not only what they believe but why they believe it demonstrates they are placing a very high priority on the things of God. So, how are we going to help the listeners do that today? In our last couple of episodes we’ve spent a lot of our time talking about truth. We did that because we insist that the Bible is true. But that insistence would be meaningless if truth didn’t exist in the first place.
RD: Well, let’s start out by briefly reviewing some of the progress we’ve made so far. Truth is what corresponds to the facts, i.e., it corresponds to reality. Truth is absolute, and the absoluteness of it cannot be denied without using thoughts and words and arguments form others that are meant to be understood by us as absolutely true. Absolute truth is objective, i.e., it corresponds to the object to which it refers. It is not dependent on our opinions, observations, calculations, emotions, attitudes, or knowledge in any way – it simply “is what is.”
VK: So, those are positive or affirmative statements about truth. But not all people agree with those affirmations. In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we covered some of the philosophies that deny those affirmations. Why don’t you briefly review some of those?
RD: I’d be glad to. Agnosticism says that absolute truth cannot be known, or, at least it says that we can know appearances of things, but we can’t know the thing in itself, i.e., we can’t know the essence of the thing. Skepticism says that we should doubt all claims of absolute truth. Relativism affirms that there is no absolute truth; and post-modernism refuses to admit to any absolute truth, or to even allow truth claims to be made.
VK: But none of those philosophies hold up under scrutiny do they? In effect, each of these four philosophies self-destructs under the weight of its own affirmations. This is very similar to a point that recurred during our “Lord of Logic” series. The classic example of a statement that is self-refuting is that there is no such thing as absolute truth. We should ask anyone who agrees with that statement whether the statement they say they agree with is absolutely true. So, this points out a concept that all thinking Christians must master. The first test we should always apply to a premise is the premise itself. If we would learn to do that we would quickly realize that much of what passes for sophisticated philosophy is actually nonsense.
RD: I agree. Let’s take a just a minute and see how each of these philosophies fails its own premise or test. Agnosticism has two forms. The strong form of agnosticism affirms that all truth is unknowable. The soft form of agnosticism says that at least we can’t know reality even if we can know appearances. If the agnostic is correct in his belief then he – and we – can’t even know the truth of his own statement. Skepticism affirms that we should doubt everything – except, of course, the statement that we should doubt all truth claims.
VK: Said slightly differently skeptics do not instruct us to doubt their claims – only the claims of others including those who say that absolute truth exists. All that really needs to be asked to the skeptic is, “are you sure, or should we both doubt what you are saying?”
RD: Correct. Relativism straightforwardly denies absolute truth and simply says that the best we can do is compare things to one another. So, the reply we make to the relativist is “should I take what you are saying as absolute truth, or is it also a ‘relative truth’?” Post modernism affirms the rule of “deconstructionism” which is to say that all statements except for the statement that all statements should be deconstructed. Post modernism changes the rules of communication to say that the meaning a statement contains is determined by listener not the speaker. Post-modernism permits the listener to “deconstruct” language such as changing the meaning of words to anything that suits the listener’s preferred worldview. So we would say to the post-modernist, “do you want me to understand what you are saying, or would you rather I understood it in the way that best suits my situation?”
VK: So, each one of these four philosophies denies that absolute truth exists but then goes on to uses absolute statements to define its own belief system. So each philosophy actually affirms that there is, after all, some absolute truth because if they always describe their own statements of belief as if they were absolutely true.

RD: Exactly.
VK: And just a reminder to our audience we addressed similar points in our “Lord of Logic” series which is available through most major podcasting apps. But part of the reason we’re going over all this now is to reinforce the point that there are certain concepts that are fundamental to all correct thinking and logic. And it’s becoming more and more essential that Christians become familiar with those concepts isn’t it?
RD: Yes, primarily as a way of enabling Christians to stand firm in their faith as so many criticisms are hurled at them. Some of these criticisms come from people who are seemingly well-educated and sophisticated, but as we’ve been describing when you examine what the actually believe, it’s just nonsense. So, one principle Christians should keep in mind when they encounter objections to our faith is to test the objection using its own criteria. As you mentioned, the first test we should always apply to a premise is the premise itself. Doing so is a relatively straightforward application of some of the basic laws of logic. Many commentators will recognize that, in logic, there are three fundamental laws, or some people call them principles, of all rational thought. They are:
• The law of identity (A is A).
• The law of non-contradiction (A is not non-A at the same time in the same relationship).
• The law of the excluded middle (either A or non-A).
VK: Well, those sound simple and obvious enough but let’s go over them individually just to be sure we’re all singing out of the same hymnal.
RD: The law of identity simply says that something is, and must be, itself. Now I know that sounds so simple that some people would wonder what the point is in stating such a law or principle. But the need for the law identity will become far more clear as we begin to consider questions about the legitimacy of faith or belief systems. For instance, one claim that is often made in contemporary culture is that all religious systems are equally valid – so it’s ok to believe whatever you want as long as you’re sincere. This claim obliterates the very considerable differences in religious systems. Some religions are monotheistic (belief in one God). Others are polytheistic (belief in many gods). Well, such differing claims are irreconcilably different. As such, if one is true the others are false. And the process of establishing this very important distinction begins by simply recognizing that a thing, a person, a belief system, is and must be itself. So, when you combine the law of identity with the law of non-contradiction you have the beginning of the logical process by which such distinctions are shown to be undeniably true.
VK: Formally stated the law of non-contradiction says that “A cannot be both A and non-A at the same time and in the same relationship.” The classic example is a woman who may be both a mother and a daughter at the same time but not in the same relationship. Mary cannot be the child of the same children to whom she is the mother.
RD: Right. Again, the law of non-contradiction is so obvious that it hardly seems necessary to state it, but all too often today it is necessary. There are belief systems and philosophies that say that it is possible to accept two contradictory things at the same time as being true. The statement that all religions are valid is in essence this kind of a claim. But again this is nonsense. The law of non-contradiction guards us from that nonsense and like all of these basic laws, or first principles, the law of non-contradiction cannot be denied without using it. If someone contends that the law of non-contradiction isn’t valid they are contending that the opposite premise must be true. Anyone who says that “opposites can both be true” does not give you the option of believing the opposite of that statement.
VK: So, like other first principles, the law of non-contradiction is undeniable. Norman Geisler says, “The direct basis for the law of non-contradiction is its self-evident nature. And the indirect proof is shown by the fact that any attempt to deny it implies it. That is, it is a necessary condition for all rational thought.” So, what about the law of the excluded middle (either A or non-A)?
RD: This, again, is an obvious but necessary observation. A good example would be the statement “I am sitting in a chair.” Now, if I am truly sitting in a chair, then all other possibilities for the position of my body are excluded. I am not standing, lying, or sitting in a sofa or bathtub.
VK: I, for one, am glad about the bathtub thing.
RD: So am I. It’s chilly in the studio this morning. At any rate, there are many conditions that are important to demonstrate the existence of God where it must be one way or another.
VK: I think we’re going to need an example of what you’re thinking about.
RD: We spoke in one of earlier episodes about the fact that it is important to have an absolutely firm starting point for proving that God exists. One such starting point is demonstrating that we exist. And we said that one way we can demonstrate our own existence is through Descartes famous maxim “I think therefore I am.” Something must be something before it can do anything. Thinking is doing so I must be in existence before I could think. So, a slightly different way of stating the possible choices that we’re choosing between is “being or non-being.”
VK: In other words something can, and I’m not quoting Shakespeare though it sounds like it, something can “be or not be.” There is no third possibility. Nothing can hide in the cracks between being and non-being. We either exist or we don’t. But if we do exist, which we do because we all think, then we are then off on a search to explain our existence. But that would be getting ahead of where we are in our line of reasoning.
RD: It’s a little ahead but not by much because one of ideas we’re combatting – and we’ve sort of alluded to this – is the idea that religious pluralism is valid.
VK: Religious pluralism is the belief that every religion is true. Religious pluralism says that each religion provides a genuine encounter with the Ultimate, whoever or whatever that is. Religious pluralism says one may be better than the others, but all religions are adequate. In this view all roads lead to “God,” all sincere belief systems are valid, and each religion is only an incomplete view of the whole picture. Some people who support religious pluralism like to use the parable of three blind men and the elephant. One felt the leg and said, “it’s a tree;” one felt the tail and said, “it’s a rope;” one felt the side and said, “it’s a wall.” They then compare notes on what they felt, and learn they are in complete disagreement. The story is used to indicate that reality may be viewed differently depending upon one's perspective, suggesting that what seems an absolute truth may be relative due to the deceptive nature of half-truths – that people tend to understand only a tiny portion of reality and then extrapolate all manner of dogmas from that, each claiming that only his understanding is correct. This parable is used to refute the idea of absolute truth by implying that they are all right.
RD: Yes. Religious pluralism is a very popular idea in our contemporary culture and even some so-called mainline Christian denominations have accepted some form of it. And the parable you cited is a common way religious pluralism is defended. But let’s take a second look at the parable. Far from it proving that all belief systems are equally valid, in fact, it does the opposite. Look at the facts: all any of the men perceived was an elephant! And their sincerity in what they believed did not change that fact. Plus, the men are blind! They can’t see what’s in front of them. Their visual impairment does not confer on to them the power of sound judgment. Rather than all of them being right, they are all wrong! So, the absolute truth, i.e., what corresponds to the way things really are, is that 1) the animal they felt is an elephant, and 2) they are absolutely wrong. What can we gain from this? Our goal should be to test for and determine the truth. Sincerity is not a test for truth – correspondence is.

VK: Religious pluralism evaluates Christianity this way: “Christianity is exclusive; it claims to be the one and only true religion. This places Christians at odds with the modern movements to study comparative religion and work at interfaith communing. One Christian apologist, Alister McGrath, put is this way. “How can Christianity’s claims to truth be taken seriously when there are so many rival alternatives and when truth itself has become a devalued notion? No one can lay claim to possession of the truth. It is all a question of perspective. All claims to truth are equally valid. There is no universal or privileged vantage point that allows anyone to decide what is right and what is wrong.” That’s from his book, Challenge of Pluralism, page 365.
RD: So, religious pluralism is one belief system that we can evaluate using the laws of logic that we were discussing. And when we do we find out that religious pluralism violates the law of non-contradiction and the law of the excluded middle. If we are to take religious pluralism seriously we find out that it requires that we simultaneously embrace contradictory propositions. Let’s go back to monotheism vs polytheism. Monotheism says there is one and only one God. Polytheism says there are many gods. If monotheism is true then polytheism is false. If polytheism is true then monotheism is false. The two different basic religious premises cannot be true and there is no third possibility. So, we are forced to make a choice between the two. And logic and reason tell us that the truth must be found in the premise that corresponds to reality.
VK: What you’re saying is that Logic tells us that there must be a real set of facts somewhere – even if we don’t know them – that answers our most basic questions of whether or not a “god” exists, and, if so, which god. That’s one of the two basic points that is essential to good Christian apologetics. At this point we’ve learned enough to be absolutely certain of at least one thing: a religion that does not correspond to the facts is a false religion – because truth corresponds to reality in religion as well as everything else. And that brings us to the step number two in the process of proving not only the existence of God, but of the truth that there is One and Only One God and that God is the God of the Bible.

RD: Right. In our process of proving those two main points we’ve now finished the process of demonstrating that truth is absolute and it is knowable. And we’ve shown that the laws of logic enable us to not only know that truth is absolute and knowable but also that they enable us to move forward in evaluating the various claims made by competing religious systems. Now in encounters with atheists, skeptics, relativists, family members, co-workers, people who knock on your door, or people who may be sitting beside you in the pew, this brief discussion of absolute truth may be all you need to convince someone that they are on the wrong track and need to get over to the truth side. But if a person cannot accept that truth is “telling it like it really is,” we’re going to have a tough time leading them to believe the Absolute Truth of Jesus Christ.
VK: But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t try to help them. For some people just realizing that some of the current myths and popular belief systems lead to irreconcilable contradictions may be enough to put them on the road to truth. But for others we may have to provide more help in the same way it’s important to distinguish between real and counterfeit money. A twenty dollar bill and a counterfeit twenty dollar bill have many things in common, and, in fact, appear to have more similarities than differences: they are the same shape, color, and design, and they have the same words and pictures. But one is real and the other is not. How do we tell which is the counterfeit and which is real? The answer is by close examination and study in order to thoroughly know the real one. The same principle applies to our study of Christianity. Logic tells us that there must be a real set of facts somewhere – even if we don’t know them – that answers our most basic questions of whether or not a “god” exists, and, if so, which god.
RD: So, here’s where we are in our overall process of proving that there is a God and that that God is the God of the Bible. The claim that God exists is itself a truth claim. Well, we’ve shown that truth is absolute and knowable though we have to tackle the particular truth claim that God exists. But at least we know that absolute truth exists. And we’ve seen that the philosophies that disagree with the existence of absolute truth are all self-refuting. They all fail the test that is established by their central premise.
VK: For instance, if a skeptic says we must doubt everything we may ask the skeptic whether we’re allowed to doubt their demand that we doubt everything. If a relativist says all truth is relative we ask the relativist whether their claim about all truth being relative is an absolute or relative truth.
RD: Yes. And today we’ve seen that there are basic, self-evident, and irrefutable laws of logic which affirm that truth is knowable and absolute – and also affirm the self-defeating nature of the objections to the existence of absolute truth. These laws of logic, which are sometimes termed “first principles” cannot be refuted because their truth must be assumed in any attempted refutation. For instance anyone who contends that the law of non-contradiction doesn’t apply is contending there is an opposite principle that does apply. But they certainly don’t mean that their contention and the opposite are both equally applicable.
VK: Now we know that all of this can produce some head scratching and even some headaches. But once Christians master these principles it produces a Christian who can encounter the barrage of criticism aimed today at the Christian faith and emerge unscathed. And as important as that is for adults it’s even more important for our kids and grandkids. Apologetics, as an area of study, isn’t first and foremost a way to win arguments. It’s a way to protect immature believers as well as hopefully rescue some others from the fire. Well, sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for restoration of the worship of the one true God to our communities and nation since it is only through that restoration that our unsaved friends and neighbors have the hope for salvation.
---- PRAYER FOR ILLUMINATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the English Standard Version)
Isaiah, Chapter 1, verse 18, English Standard Version

Episode 145 – Truth and Proof – Part 5 – Proof a God Exists
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
Romans, Chapter 1, verse 20, New Living Translation
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Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as we continue our series we’ve called “Truth and Proof.” This series is all about the truth that there is a God and that God is the God of the Bible. Then we’re going on to offer proof that supports that truth. Today we have a special guest with us on the show, Doug Apple who is the manager of the WAVE-94 radio station in Tallahassee, Florida. Like a lot of people in Christian radio Doug is a diligent student of the Bible and he has thought deeply about his faith. This includes wanting to help others see that the Christian faith is a faith that will not only satisfy our souls but also our minds. Today Doug is going to help us take a detailed look at some of the essential observations that form the foundation for the inescapable truth of God’s existence. But before we get into the discussion, Doug would you like to take a couple of minutes and tell us a little about yourself?
DOUG: - Introductory comments -
VK: So, I’d like to remind everyone of the purpose of this series. We are learning how to defend the Christian faith. This defense is often termed “apologetics.” Now sometimes people will get the mistaken impression that apologetics can only be done, or should only be done, by professional apologists. The truth is, however, that any sincere, mature Christian can become an effective apologist – at least effective enough to demonstrate the two main points that are the concern of classical apologetics. The first point is the existence of God and the second point is that God is the God of the Bible. We do this by demonstrating the truth of the New Testament, and, therefore, the truth of Christianity. What do you think, Doug?
DOUG: I agree. It may take a little time and effort to “prove” God’s existence, but every mature, thinking, normal person can – by the power of his mind and the operation of his senses – come to the valid conclusion that somehow some thing is “bigger than” he or she is. And, this is precisely what every culture has done over the last 6,000 plus years of recorded history. Just about every culture throughout history has come to the realization that “someone,” or a bunch of “someones” is pulling the strings at a higher level than the level where we are. And, with some deeper thought people can not only know that there is a “god,” but also they can know a lot about the nature of that “god.” And when they have reached those two conclusions, hopefully, they will look in the direction of the real God.
VK: So, at this point let’s again stop and briefly review what we’ve covered so far in the first four episodes of this series. First, truth is what corresponds to reality. In other words truth corresponds to the way things really are. The way things really are is the same for all people in all places, and for all belief systems. Whether or not someone knows the truth, or believes the truth, is not the point. We’ve also learned that truth is knowable and absolute.
DOUG: You have also covered the fact that the absoluteness of truth counters the claims of skepticism, agnosticism, relativism, and post-modernism. Those are four philosophies that deny the existence of absolute truth, but each of them is self-defeating. Each fails its own central premise. For instance the skeptic says we must doubt the existence of absolute truth – but does not doubt the absoluteness of their own position. Said differently, the skeptic is certain about doubt. And in your last episode of this series you covered the fact that the existence of truth is supported by the most fundamental laws of logic which include:
• The law of identity (A is A).
• The law of non-contradiction (A is not non-A at the same time in the same relationship).
• The law of the excluded middle (either A or non-A).
VK: These laws of logic mean that opposites cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense. This counters the idea of religious pluralism – the idea that all religious faiths are equally valid. The opposite of true is false. This unbreakable law applies to all aspects of the universe – including religion. So, the belief that God exists and the belief that God does not exist are fundamentally at odds with one another and there is no third option. So, one of those beliefs must be true and the other must be false. The same would be true of the distinction between monotheism and polytheism. Monotheists believe there is one and only one God. Polytheists believe there are many gods. Both views cannot be true.
DOUG: What we’re building up to is a proof for the existence of God – and not just any “god,” but the real Jehovah God of the Bible – the God of Reality. This real God started His revelation of Himself with the words, “In the beginning God . . .” (Genesis 1:1). In this verse, God, in His wisdom – and possibly with a little grin of anticipation – gives us a hint as to how we actually can prove to ourselves and to others the reality of His existence. Even if we could not be sure of God’s existence in any other way – and there are other ways – we can be sure of God’s existence by observing His creation. But as I said we must build up to that final conclusion. Before we can demonstrate that the God of the Bible is an objective reality we must first demonstrate that reason, logic, and evidence support the need for some kind of a divine being.
VK: And as we’ve mentioned before that need has been recognized by pagan philosophers as well as Christian theologians. In a previous episode we mentioned that Aristotle was one of those philosophers who arrived at this conclusion simply by making keen observations of the world around him.
DOUG: In the order of famous Greek philosophers there are three who are still household names even today. First came Socrates. Socrates’ most famous student was Plato. After Plato there came Aristotle. As you mentioned Aristotle was a diligent observer of the world around him. He wrote extensively about the physical universe, and he, like some of the philosophers before him, saw that there was one thing that all beings have in common, and that is being itself. But when Plato and Aristotle and others speak of “being,” they are not speaking of existence, they are speaking of essence. Existence was implied. So, mere existence was not their primary concern. Their primary concern was understanding what constituted the essence of things.
VK: And Aristotle’s philosophy about the essence of things started with his work in “physics.” Said slightly differently Aristotle began his thoughts about “being” and “essence” with his observations of the physical universe. He then shifted to an understanding of what is prior to the physical universe that gives “being” to everything else. “Prior to” was not a chronological designation. It didn’t mean the passage of time, but rather the order in which things came to “be.” Aristotle’s work along these lines went “beyond” or “after” his work in physics, and became known as “metaphysics.” The focus of metaphysics is the nature of being and reality. Later, a new and separate philosophical discipline about the origin of reality followed along. That study of origin of reality came to be known as “cosmology” – the study of the origin of the universe and its laws.
DOUG: So, one of the observations made by Aristotle was that the one constant he observed all about him was change. Aristotle noted two basic kinds of change: substantial change – the change in the substance of something, e.g., something comes to be (like a plant coming up out of the ground from a seed), or something ceases to be, e.g., like dying. We could come up with a lot of other examples but the point is that substantial change is reflected in birth and growth or decay and death. In addition to “substantial change,” the other form of change Aristotle noticed he called accidental change – the change that occurs when something adheres to the substance of another something, but is not inherent in that substance or essence. For example when I learn something new I have changed but I am still of and possess the same “essence” which you might call “human-ness.” And I am still the same substance which you might call “Doug-ness.” But despite me possessing the same essence and substance I am still different for having learned something. In other words my essence and substance didn’t change but one or more of my attributes as the world perceives me did. So, Aristotle noted that, even as change marked everything in the world around him, with that change some aspects of things stayed the same and some other aspects did not.
VK: A particularly dramatic example of change was death. In death living beings undergo a fatal change resulting from the withdrawal of its life. But even through this change one creature did not become another. A dead dog did not turn into dead squirrel or a tree, or anything else. But Aristotle recognized that the dead body did not remain that way for long. The thing that made it what it was, i.e., the power within it that accumulated and arranged the atoms and the molecules of the universe into that particular body and held them together is now gone. Consequently, the elements of that body quickly become disorganized. The form of that body – the dog-ness didn’t change; but the substance, what we would call “matter” – the part left behind – did change. Aristotle’s understanding of reality, then, involved two components: actuality – what doesn’t change and potentiality – what does change.
DOUG: So, Aristotle’s view of reality was that everything in creation is composed of both form (actuality) and matter (potentiality). The implication of this view is that the reality we perceive through our senses is constantly changing but that the forms or essences of things did not. Aristotle didn’t have modern science, but he had an exceptional mind and genius intellect. He likely saw that everything necessary to make an oak tree is contained in the acorn. If he had had a microscope, he might have been the first to accurately note that everything necessary for me to be me was contained in a single cell inside my mother. And when that cell divided into more cells they grew, and they differentiated, and they matured, and they became a unique human being unlike anyone else – just the same process that got us all here. And that being will continue to change. The notion has been bounced around in medical circles for the last 80 years that every atom of the human body is changed out every seven years. This cannot readily be proven, but we know with certainty that there is a constant balance being achieved between the dying cells and the new ones. The turnover rate for various body tissues has been calculated in the range of 3 years to 16 years, the brain being on the low end. I’m not sure if that’s the good news or the bad news. And we know with certainty that the last changes in the human body happen very quickly – those changes we call “decomposition.”
VK: It didn’t take long for observers of nature to realize that when a tomato seed is planted a tomato plant comes up. Ditto for every other kind of plant – what you sow is what you reap. If a pregnant dog and a pregnant cat are fed the same kind of food, the dog will have a puppy and the cat will have a kitten. It has nothing to do with the food they eat except that the food provides each one with the building blocks necessary to make a kind of replication of the mother and father.
DOUG: So, it would seem from Aristotle’s model that the actual thing – the “form” – is in the seed, or the acorn, or the fertilized egg for the particular species. And the potential thing – the “matter” – is the elements of the earth and of the universe which are capable of becoming the substance of any type of plant or animal. So, the question becomes what is it in that seed or egg that “drives” the earthly elements to be arranged in such a way as to become a unique product? Well, we now know something that Aristotle didn’t. We know about the genetic code – the code of life, if you will. We know that every living creature has a pre-programmed set of instructions present in its DNA. So, in that tomato seed, or in that acorn, or in that pre-born human baby, beginning with the most fundamental components of mass and energy and working outward to and through the DNA, there is the form of that thing – immaterial, unmeasurable, unseen, and, in a certain sense, eternal. And, that form has being – not only is it specific, and, therefore, has a unique essence, but also it operates in the material universe, and, therefore, it exists.
VK: And we know some other things that Aristotle didn’t. We know about the underlying properties of atoms and sub-atomic particles through the Standard Model of particle physics, general relativity, and a system called quantum mechanics. For instance, we know that quarks interact by gluon exchange; that neutrons decay to protons through the weak interaction mediated by boson force carriers. We know that quarks and other sub-atomic particles spin. We’ve come to know a lot about the building blocks of physical reality. What we see through our modern observations is the proof of what Aristotle observed: there is constant change. When we reduce all physical matter to its smallest components we see that even the quark changes in its characteristics and interactions, but it’s still a quark! And nature testifies to what Aristotle believed. All around us is change, but something always remains the same and something else doesn’t. So, what is it that always remains the same?
DOUG: It is the thing that is the actual – the form – not the thing that is the potential, the matter. This means there has to be something that accounts for the order and the arrangement of every physically existent thing, beginning with its most fundamental components. Plato and Aristotle called it “form” – and they knew it had to be something that is immaterial. They reasoned that can’t be seen, felt, or measured. And they knew this something cannot itself change, and is, therefore, eternal. They knew this because if it came into being it would have undergone change from non-being to being. Now the listeners don’t have to remember any of the particulars of any of this. But they do need to remember that the matter of the universe is the part that can change whereas the forms of those individual things of the universe don’t change. The matter, which is mass and energy, not only can change, but is constantly changing, even if the change is only motion. And here is the take-home message: all change requires a cause.
VK: That is such an important point so I want to restate it. All change requires a cause. And we see change all about us. Yet, we also see that despite this change there is still something that accounts for the order and the arrangement of every physically existent thing, beginning with its most fundamental components. Plato and Aristotle called it “form” – and they knew it had to be something that is immaterial; that it couldn’t be seen, felt, or measured. They also knew that that something that ordered everything else could not itself change, and would therefore be eternal. This concept of an Eternal Cause that causes order throughout the material creation while being immaterial itself brought them – and brings us – to God. We’re not yet at that God being the God of the Bible but we are firmly standing on the top step of the staircase we’ve been climbing.
DOUG: So, let’s catch up to the stairs we’ve been ascending. We started out simply by acknowledging the existence of truth. Then we demonstrated that the fundamental laws of logic not only indisputably prove that truth exists but those laws also prove that we exist. We then extended that awareness of our existence to the existence of a material universe and we’ve taken this realization further to the fact that there must be an Eternal Cause that brings order to the material universe.
VK: Right. Aristotle is given credit for coining the term “Unmoved Mover” as one term for this eternal cause. The term “Prime Mover” was also used. Aristotle and Plato knew that the Unmoved Mover must be eternal because if it had come into “being” it would have undergone change from non-being to being. The fact that Aristotle, with a little help from some of his Greek predecessors could deduce all this truly is remarkable.
DOUG: Especially since Aristotle did not have the benefit of the technological and scientific information that we do today. Today we know far, far more about the fundamental components of the physical universe. As you alluded to briefly, we know there are two particles that cannot be reduced to anything smaller or more simple. We know there are four fundamental forces that simply “are” and cannot be reduced to anything more basic. And we know there are four “force carriers” which behave as both particles and energy waves, and have no mass. And with these basic components of all mass and energy there is always directional motion, spin motion, interaction, and the potential for different relationships among them. There is always change, because what we – and everything – are made of is in motion. We also know that each thing of substance is uniquely different from every other thing of substance, that it has its own unique form. Otherwise everything would be the same thing. So, we can start building from there to everything else. Each thing is “formed” by component parts put together by “form” – the determiner of each substance. We can now say that form is cause, matter is the changeable intermediary, and substance is effect. We use the words “cause” and “effect” in much the same way as we would say “the producer” and “the product” – cause produces an effect. Every effect has a cause.
VK: Right. And when we look at the universe we see a countless variety of forms, for there is a countless number of different things. And we know a few other things. The universe is in motion. The earth, the sun, the moon, planets, and galaxies are moving in relation to one another. We know that things come into being, undergo change, and appear to go out of being such as when a plant comes out of a seed, grows, dies, and decays.
DOUG: Ancient thinkers, like Aristotle, saw the same things. So, Aristotle saw the cause as the “actualizer.” Or said differently Aristotle saw that everything that comes to be is caused by something that already is.
VK: Or in other words, the actualizer transforms potentiality into actuality. The actualizer produces change. One very important change that the actualizer produces is changing non-being into being.
DOUG: And Aristotle saw that everything that comes into being is limited, only a finite part of all there is. He also saw the things that come into being as being contingent. The things that came into existence were dependent on something else for their existence. Therefore, they could exist or not exist. Aristotle saw all things that come into being as ultimately requiring a cause that is not dependent on any other cause – a cause that is not contingent, for if it was contingent it would be dependent on something else for its existence. This brought Aristotle to another of his great contributions – the realization that that an infinite regress of causes is impossible. There must be a starting point – there had to be a “first actualizer” to get the whole series started. Something that “has to be” is something that is necessary. Later philosophers and theologians would come to refer to this idea of the first actualizer as the “Necessary Being.”
VK: Christians of course agree with this line of reasoning but we have an awareness that Aristotle did not. We know that the God of the Bible is that Necessary Being. We are blessed because we have not only the line of reasoning that was available to Aristotle, God’s general revelation, but also we have God’s special revelation in the Bible. Now, as we’ve said before we know that all of this can produce some head scratching and even some headaches. But once Christians master these principles it produces a Christian who can encounter the barrage of criticism aimed today at the Christian faith and emerge unscathed.
DOUG: Absolutely. There are real challenges and real reasons for studying apologetics. But, as you have emphasized throughout this “Truth and Proof” series, being able to understand and defend Christianity is not the sole province of the clergy, the evangelists, the authors, the pastors, the scholars, or any other group of “professional Christians.” It is the province of every Christian. It is possible for all people who have the desire to understand these concepts and ideas. Paul told us this in the opening scripture we listened to from Romans 1:20. Paul said that the people who deny God’s existence don’t have any excuse for denying it because God has made his clear through His creation. Frankly, Aristotle proves Paul’s point. Aristotle was able to come to the awareness that the nature of reality pointed to an Unmoved Mover, a first actualizer, a Necessary Being. So when we hear people deny the existence of God we should also keep in mind what Jesus said to his listeners in John 8: 43-47:
“Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
VK: Jesus’ warning shows that as important as that is for adults to make an effort to understand something about apologetics, it’s even more important for our kids and grandkids. Apologetics, as an area of study, isn’t first and foremost a way to win arguments. It’s a way to protect ourselves, our friends, and especially immature believers from a hostile world. Naturally, we also hope that an increased understanding of the foundations of our faith will also make us better witnesses to that world. Well, this sounds like a time we really need to go to God I prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession because there are certainly times in all our lives when we have fallen short. The good news is that even when that happens God has promised that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
Romans, Chapter 1, verse 20, New Living Translation

Episode 146 – Truth and Proof – Part 6 – A Creation Needs A Creator Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis, Chapter 1, verse 1, New Living Translation ******** Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as we continue our series we’ve called “Truth and Proof.” This series is all about the truth that there is a God and that God is the God of the Bible. Then we’re going on to offer proof that supports that truth. Today we have Dr. Gregg Alexander back on the show with us. This is a real blessing for us because this series that we are doing was inspired by a series that Gregg presented to his Sunday School class several years ago. GREGG would you like to take a couple of minutes and tell us a little about your background and perhaps just a little bit about your own testimony? GREGG: - Introductory comments - VK: So, I’d like to remind everyone of the purpose of this series. We are learning how to defend the Christian faith. This defense is often termed “apologetics.” Now sometimes people will get the mistaken impression that apologetics is an arcane or esoteric area of study beyond the reach of ordinary Christians. Nothing could be further from the truth. Apologetics is simply the way we work out the command given to us in 1 Peter, chapter 3, verse 15 where we are told: “… if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it. But do this in a gentle and respectful way.” That’s the New Living Translation. The truth is that any sincere, mature Christian can become an effective apologist – at least effective enough to demonstrate the two main points that are the concern of classical apologetics. The first point is the existence of God and the second point is that God is the God of the Bible. What do you think, GREGG? GREGG: I agree. It does take some time and effort to develop a well-grounded understanding of the principles and concepts that are usually included under the umbrella of apologetics – but when you consider the payoff it’s an investment well worth making. VK: What are you thinking? GREGG: Simply that there is nothing more important than our faith in God and not just any God but the God of the Bible. A correct understanding of God is the difference between an eternity in heaven or an eternity in hell. Those are pretty high stakes. And unfortunately, right now in our country and in our time none, or at least very few, of the cultural, academic, or societal forces are aligned to help preserve our faith. So, unlike times past, when you might have thought that some degree of common sense apologetics would have helped us become grounded in the basis for our faith – none of that is present today. But that doesn’t mean we can’t succeed in developing the strengths and skills we need. We can. With just a bit of concentration and thought people can not only know that there is a “god,” but also they can know a lot about the nature of that “god” including that logic and reason tell us that god is the God of the Bible. VK: So, where do you want to start today? Last time we covered the fact that even pagan philosophers have reached the realization that somehow, somewhere there must be a cause for everything that we see around us. We spent quite a bit of time on Aristotle’s thinking on the subject of ultimate causes and the kinds of changes we see from empirical observations of the universe.

GREGG: And that was a great foundation for what I’d like to talk about today. I’d like to start by talking about what I call the “Metaphysical Proof of God’s Existence:” VK: Sounds intriguing. Where do you begin? GREGG: I begin with the most obvious statement of all – one that cannot be denied. Something exists and I’ll extend that a bit further to say I actually do exist. VK: Well, I can vouch for that. If you didn’t exist who would I be speaking with? GREGG: Precisely. Someone trying to deny my existence would be making a denial to a non-existent entity and that would be pretty silly. But something else I know, we all know for sure, is that I am a contingent being. I came into being and I change. Therefore, something must have caused my existence. I could exist or not exist. At one time I didn’t exist. Since there was a time I didn’t exist something must have caused me to come into being. The result of this line of reasoning is that we can be absolutely positive that I have a cause. Now nothing cannot cause something. Everything that has had a beginning has had a cause. VK: Again, all that seems perfectly obvious. So obvious, that is almost seems unnecessary to state it. GREGG: It is obvious but it is an essential step along our line of reasoning and I don’t want to skip any steps. I want everyone to be absolutely sure of the foundation that we’re building. So, once we’re sure that we know that I, and all human beings and other creatures for that matter, are contingent beings we can easily see they cannot account for their own existence. So, the next point in this metaphysical proof of God’s existence is that only a Necessary Being can cause a contingent being. Therefore, I am caused to exist by a Necessary Being. This follows undeniably from the points that we have already discussed. VK: Well, just to be sure that everyone is following along let’s define our terms. By contingent being you simply mean a being that might exist or might not exist. Such a being is dependent on something or someone else beyond itself for its existence. GREGG: Yes. And a Necessary Being is a being that does not depend on anyone or anything else to account for its existence. This Being accounts for its own existence or said slightly differently this Being is self-existent. It possesses the power of existence unto and by itself. VK: And since a contingent being cannot account for its own existence it would be dependent on a Necessary Being. Aristotle called this Being the “Unmoved Mover.” And some people refer to it as the Prime Mover. Everything in motion has to have been set in motion but somewhere there as to be a first cause for motion or change. GREGG: Exactly right. So, these points establish the fact that somewhere there is a Necessary Being that began the entire change of existence for everything else – for all contingent beings, structures, or artifacts. But let’s continue our line of reason. I know more about me than just that I exist. I know that I am a personal, rational, and moral kind of being since I engage in personal, rational, and moral actions and activities. I don’t just exist. I exist in a particular way with particular abilities and attributes. Therefore, it is reasonable for me to look for a cause for my abilities and attributes. VK: Again, that follows undeniably. When Dr. Jonathan Sarfati was helping us with our Truth in Genesis series he would often remind us that being able to explain the operation of something is quite different from being able to explain the origin of the thing. It’s one thing to know that a car needs gas, or batteries, to move down a road but that’s very different from explaining how the car was built in the first place. GREGG: But when we see a car we know that somewhere at sometime there was a car builder that had to create the car. And we know that that car builder must have had the requisite knowledge and abilities to create the car to function the way it does. The car didn’t just magically create its own ability to move and carry passengers and cargo. Well, since I know that I possess the ability to engage in personal, rational, and moral actions and activities I can know that this Necessary Being must be a personal, rational, and moral kind of being. The Being couldn’t give me something he didn’t already possess. So, by the Principle of Analogy I can know that I am similar to him. VK: I think I know where you are going with this particular thought. Since you are a personal, rational, and moral kind of being we can know that this Necessary Being is personal, rational, and moral. He must possess these attributes because we owe our origin to him. So, he must have imparted these attributes to us. If he had not how could we explain our possession of them? GREGG: That is exactly right but now we have to qualify that observation. The Necessary Being does possess personal, rational, and moral attributes but he possesses them in a necessary way, not in a contingent way. In other words, these attributes must exist within the essence of the Necessary Being. No one gave these attributes to the Necessary Being. The Necessary Being has always existed so there was no way for another entity to pass anything to him at a point of origin. Any attributes the Necessary Being possesses are part of his very essence. VK: The Necessary Being is eternal and uncaused. I don’t want to be tedious but this being is Necessary. He’s necessary because if he didn’t exist no contingent being would ever have existed. The Necessary Being is necessary for anything else to exist – including us. So, if there weren’t a Necessary Being out there, or in here for that matter, we contingent beings wouldn’t be around at all to be talking about him. Our existence is contingent on his existence. This isn’t the kind of thing must of us spend our days discussing. GREGG: Well, as a wise man once said, “Given the state of our nation and world maybe it would have been a good idea for us to spend our days discussing these kind of ideas.” More damage may have been done to the world from the idea that the universe has no creator and that human beings are just a random collection of undirected molecules than from any other idea in history. As we’ve been talking about, nothing that is dependent or contingent can come into being without being created by a Necessary Being. And that Necessary Being must be personal, rational, and moral or he could not have created personal, rational, or moral creatures. Furthermore, that Necessary Being must be unchanging, unlimited and singular. VK: How can we be sure about that? GREGG: Because a Necessary Being does not and in fact cannot come to be. A Necessary Being has no possibility to be other than it is. And that Necessary Being cannot be caused by another, undergo change, or be limited by any possibility of what it could be. And there cannot be more than one Necessary Being because there cannot be two infinite beings. If there were two Beings then each would be limited by the presence of the other. That would mean that neither Being would be unlimited. VK: Well, the logic behind that chain of thought seems to be impeccable. We know that we are contingent, dependent creatures. That’s easily proven. Cut off oxygen for ten minutes, water for a couple of weeks, or food for a month or so and we will all find out that we are dependent on forces and substances outside ourselves to maintain our existence. So, someone or something must be there to supply what we need. And that someone or something must have always existed otherwise there would have been no beginning to the chain of dependency. And we know can see that that Ultimate Beginning has to be unlimited, unchanging, personal, rational, and moral. If it were not we couldn’t be here and possess the attributes that we do. Right? GREGG: Right. Therefore, beginning with our own existence we have built a line of reasoning that one necessary, eternal, uncaused, unlimited (= infinite), rational, personal, and moral being exists. So, now let’s move to assigning a better, or at least more user friendly label, for that Being. Such a Being is appropriately called “God” in the theistic sense, because He possesses all the essential characteristics of a theistic God. This is a powerful, I might say irrefutable, argument that the theistic God exists – the One God Who is prior to all that had a beginning. “over and above,” i.e., transcendent over all that had a beginning – the One Being Who cannot not be, cannot not know, cannot be limited in power or presence or perfection, cannot be other than Reality – cannot be other than Truth. Simply stated, God is not a “logical principle,” but the Giver of logical principles. VK: Wow. When you think about it – and sadly not many of us do – this line of reasoning that demonstrates a Theistic God is something any thinking person can grasp. We’ve only been talking about this metaphysical proof for God for about 15 minutes. So, in 15 minutes or less we’ve been able to follow a chain of thought tht moves from simply being aware of our existence to being aware that a Theistic God must exist. This seems almost deceptively simple. GREGG: I don’t know that I would say that it is “simple” but I would say that it is understandable by any person who will take – as you said – to think about it. And one of the magnificent parts of this line of argumentation is that no one needs any special preparation to grasp it. No one needs a special college course, seminary class, or even enormous library to absorb it. It just takes pulling ourselves away from our phones, TVs, and social media accounts long enough to focus on a little deep thinking. Surely, our God deserves that much of our time and attention. VK: So, that’s what you call the metaphysical proof for God’s existence. And I think anyone who was paying close attention would see that it is very persuasive. In fact, it’s hard to see how someone could reasonably disagree with its line of reasoning. We exist. We exist as contingent, dependent creatures. Dependent creatures must depend on someone or something outside themselves, but that chain of dependency cannot go on forever. Somewhere there must be a Being that caused the origin of contingent beings and provides that upon which they are dependent. We call that Being a Necessary Being. The Necessary Being must be uncaused and independent and therefore must be infinite because He existed before anything else. As such, there was nothing and no one who could place limits on him. And, when we look more closely we see that we possess the attributes of personality, rationality, and morality. The only possible reason we can possess such attribute is if the Necessary Being possessed them first. So, the Necessary Being satisfies all the qualities of a theistic God. He is self-existent, infinite, uncaused, personal, rational, and moral. Does that just about sum it up? GREGG: Yes, but let me hasten to add that the metaphysical argument for God’s existence is not the only way of demonstrating that the God of the Bible must exist. I know we don’t have a lot of time remaining today but let’s at least take a quick look one or two others. Now, the three best known arguments for the existence of God are the Cosmological Argument, the Teleological Argument, and the Moral Argument. I say that these are the best known because there are other arguments for God existence but I want to keep this discussion as practical as we can. We just don’t have the time to be exhaustive. The first of these three is the Cosmological Argument which is an argument from consideration of the beginning of the universe (Gk, cosmos = “universe, world”). The second is the Teleological Argument from design (Gk., telos = “end, purpose”) and the third is Moral Argument. VK: And let me note that for anyone who would like to pursue a more exhaustive study Crystal Sea Books founder, RD Fierro, and you highly recommend Norman Geisler’s Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics. Much of the information Dr. Alexander is presenting now can be found on pages 276 through 283 of that book. GREGG: The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics is a particular favorite of mine and I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Geisler and I have enormous respect for the work he did. He is now home with Jesus but the value of his work remains. So, let’s move on. The Cosmological Argument begins with the fact that there is a universe rather than none at all, which must have been caused by something beyond itself. The law of causality says that every finite thing is caused by something other than itself. There are two basic forms of this argument. The first form of the Cosmological Argument says that the cosmos or universe needed a cause at its beginning. The second form argues that it needs a cause to continue existing. The argument that the universe had a beginning caused by something beyond the universe can be stated this way: 1. The universe had a beginning. 2. Anything that had a beginning must have been caused by something else. 3. Therefore the universe was caused by something else (a Creator). VK: That seems pretty straightforward. That’s the basic line of argumentation. So, what evidence can be cited in support of the validity of the argument? GREGG: A wide range of both scientific and philosophical evidence can be used to support this argument. For instance, time cannot go back into the past forever, for it is impossible to pass through an actual infinite number of moments. You can never finish an infinite series of real things. If this is so, then time must have had a beginning. If the world never had a beginning, then we could not have reached now. But we have reached now, so time must have begun at a particular point and proceeded to today. Therefore the world is a finite event after all and needs a cause for its beginning. This part of the argument can be summarized like this: 1. An infinite number of moments cannot be traversed. 2. If an infinite number of moments had to elapse before today, then today would never have come. 3. But today has come. 4. Therefore, an infinite number of moments have not elapsed before today (i.e., the universe had a beginning) 5. But whatever has a beginning is caused by something else. 6. Hence, there must be a Cause (Creator) of the universe. VK: So, the Cosmological Argument begins with the simple point that there is undeniably a cosmos. Something exists. We can all discuss the various elements and parameters of the nature of the cosmos but it is undeniable that we live within a cosmos. And once we begin looking carefully at that cosmos we can start to see that the individual elements of the cosmos always direct us back to the same basic point. The universe had a beginning and anything that has a beginning cannot explain its own existence. But I think we have to be careful. Sometimes when we talk about these things it can be very challenging. As we’ve said. These are not the kinds of things we normally talk about in everyday conversation. GREGG: I agree. There are great arguments for the existence of God that are a lot more fun than the rather laborious points we’ve been going through. But we have to remember that these metaphysical first principles are the bedrock of reality, and they are the spring board from which comes the other arguments, for most of the commonly used arguments are in some manner related to cause and effect. The principles and the metaphysical proof for God’s existence that I have just laid out are probably a bit cumbersome for casual conversation. So, in our next episode of Anchored by Truth I hope you’ll let me come back and give the audience some arguments that are handy, easy to remember, easy to understand, and very difficult to refute. VK: Can we get a sneak peek at what some of those might be? GREGG: The scientific evidence for the Cosmological Argument always goes back to the first premise in the argument, i.e., “The universe had a beginning.” So, I like to use five categories of evidence from secular science that prove there was a beginning – usually called the “Big Bang” by the secular scientists. VK: But we would like to add that in this context the term “Big Bang” is just a label – a shorthand way of saying the universe had a beginning. So, while secular scientists may call the beginning of the universe a “Big Bang” the scientific evidence of the universe’s beginning fits equally well, or better, with an instantaneous act of creation by an almighty God. GREGG: Agreed. So very quickly, the word SURGE, makes these categories of evidence easier to remember. The “S” is Newton’s Second Law of Thermodynamics. The “U” is for the universe which is expanding. The “R” is for the radiation echo from space, more technically known as “microwave background radiation.” The “G” is for Great Galaxy Seeds. The “E” is for Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity. This was the beginning of the end for the idea that the universe is eternal. The theory has been verified to five decimal places, and it demands an absolute beginning for time, space, and matter. From General Relativity came the discoveries of the expanding universe, the radiation echo, and the great galaxy seeds. VK: And the fact that the universe’s beginning points to the need for God was recognized by well-known Astronomer Robert Jastrow. Jastrow said this in an interview with Christianity Today: “Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover . . . That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.” GREGG: Jastrow started out as an agnostic but he came around to the fact that the nature of the universe persuaded him that the universe needed a creator. Interestingly, not all astrophysicists are so secular, and some have postulated theories based on sound science that sound very biblical, using terms like “the deep” (Genesis 1:2), “the expanse” (1:6), and the six days of Creation. Two books I would direct listeners to are Starlight and Time by D. Russell Humphreys (Master Books, 1994), and the follow-up by the same author entitled Thousands, not Billions. VK: Well, we hope everyone will join us next time as we continue this fascinating discussion with Dr. Alexander. This sounds like a time to go to God I prayer. Since our children are back in school and busily working their way through the academic year, today let’s listen to a prayer for all of them who could benefit from a little divine help with upcoming tests. ---- PRAYER FOR TAKING A TEST VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!” (Bible Quote from the New Living Translation) Genesis, Chapter 1, verse 1, New Living Translation

Episode 147 – Truth and Proof – Part 7 – Science Points to a Creator
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.
Genesis, Chapter 1, verses 3 and 4, New Living Translation
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Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as we continue our series we’ve called “Truth and Proof.” This series is all about the truth that there is a God and that God is the God of the Bible. Furthermore, as we go along we are offering the proof that supports the truth. This series on Anchored by Truth was inspired by a Sunday School lesson series that was prepared and delivered by Dr. Gregg Alexander. Today we’re fortunate to have Dr. Gregg Alexander back on the show with us. He’s going to help us explore one of the best known lines of reasoning that demonstrates God’s existence: the cosmological argument. But before we get into the meat of the show, GREGG would you like to take a couple of minutes and tell us a little about why you decided you wanted to do your “Truth and Proof” series for your Sunday School class?
GREGG: - Introductory comments -
VK: So, I’d like to remind everyone that the reason we have undertaken this series is to help listeners know how to defend the Christian faith. This defense is often termed “apologetics.” Lay people will sometimes think that apologetics as an area of study is beyond the reach of regular Christians. But we certainly don’t believe that it is. Any reasonably mature, thinking Christian can readily understand the lines of reasoning that demonstrates that the existence of God is a logical necessity to have a coherent world view. And when we speak of defending the Christian faith we’re not thinking of people going out and debating on a stage somewhere. The first place we must defend our faith is in our own hearts. The second place that we must defend it is in our own homes. If all we ever did with apologetics was do those two things any efforts we made would be well worth while.
GREGG: I agree. 10, 20, or 30 years ago we lived in a culture that readily accepted Christianity even if some individuals did not. 50 years ago you would even find some support for the Christian world view taught in grade schools and high schools because the truth of Christianity was widely accepted. But those days are long behind us. Our broader culture is no longer not only not acquiescent to Christianity but it is outright hostile to it. And some elements of our society are vehemently hostile. We have entered one of those periods of history where Christians can no longer be complacent that we just worship in our churches and things will be all right. The opposition to Christianity enters every home, every day if in no other way through the internet and the so-called mainstream media outlets. Arguments against the validity of Christianity are all around us. If we do not actively prepare to counter them the fabric of our society will continue to erode.
VK: But the good news is that it does not have to be that way, does it? We have the truth on our side but we must equip ourselves to be able to present that truth. It is not up to us to change anyone’s heart. That’s God’s job. Our job is just to be able to witness to the truth in gentle and respectful ways.
GREGG: As I said last time I was on Anchored by Truth, that there is nothing more important than our faith in God and not just any God but the God of the Bible. A correct understanding of God is the difference between an eternity in heaven or an eternity in hell. Those are pretty high stakes..
VK: But the good news is that it does not have to be that way, does it? We have the truth on our side but we must equip ourselves to be able to present that truth. It is not up to us to change anyone’s heart. That’s God’s job. Our job is just to be able to witness to the truth in gentle and respectful ways. Well, let’s do a very brief review of one of the major points that we discussed last time – a proof for God’s existence that you call the “metaphysical proof.” The metaphysical proof for God’s existence begins quite simply with the observation that we exist. And we know that we exist as contingent, dependent creatures.
GREGG: And because we are dependent creatures we know we must depend on someone or something outside ourselves for our origin and for our continued existence. But that chain of dependency cannot go on forever. Somewhere there must be a Being that caused the origin of contingent beings and provides the resources or elements upon which they are dependent. We call that Being a Necessary Being. The Necessary Being must be uncaused and independent and therefore must be infinite because He existed before anything else. As such, there was nothing and no one who could place limits on him. And, when we look more closely we see that we possess the attributes of personality, rationality, and morality. The only possible reason we can possess such attribute is if the Necessary Being possessed them first.
VK: The irresistible conclusion from this line of reasoning is that the Necessary Being satisfies all the qualities of a theistic God. He is self-existent, infinite, uncaused, personal, rational, and moral. So, the metaphysical proof for God is one way of demonstrating that God is – for lack of a better term – “necessary” to explain the universe we see around us. But, Dr. Alexander, you said that today you wanted to offer another line or argumentation that also demonstrates this same point.
GREGG: Yes. Today, I want to move on to a look at the cosmological proof for God’s existence. The cosmological argument for the existence of God is probably the best known of all the many arguments that are used. The Cosmological Argument is an argument from consideration of the beginning of the universe – it comes from the Greek word cosmos meaning “universe, world.” There are two forms of the argument. The first says that the cosmos or universe needed a cause at its beginning, the second form argues that it needs a cause to continue existing. The first form is called the horizontal argument because it proceeds along the time line from the beginning. It is also called the kalam (Arabic: “eternal”) cosmological argument: the universe is not eternal, so it must have had a Cause. That Cause must be considered God. This argument has a long and venerable history even outside Christianity. For instance, there are Islamic philosophers such as Alfarabi and Avicenna who have been strong advocates for it. So, today I want to take a look at some of the scientific evidence that supports this form of the cosmological argument, i.e., it is evidence that reasons back to a Cause of the beginning of the universe.
VK: Well, just to be sure that we are being clear for the listeners the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God goes like this:
1. The universe had a beginning.
2. Anything that had a beginning must have been caused by something else.
3. Therefore the universe was caused by something else - a Creator.
GREGG: Yes. And to help us keep organized as we go through a discussion of some of the scientific evidence I want to use the 5 letter acronym “SURGE” to make these categories of evidence easier to remember. The “S” is Newton’s Second Law of Thermodynamics. The “U” is for the universe which is expanding. The “R” is for the radiation echo from space, more technically known as “microwave background radiation.” The “G” is for Great Galaxy Seeds. The “E” is for Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity. Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity was the beginning of the end for the idea that the universe is eternal. The theory has been verified to five decimal places, and it demands an absolute beginning for time, space, and matter. From General Relativity came the discoveries of the expanding universe, the radiation echo, and the great galaxy seeds.

VK: And again, just to be clear, today there is no way in the brief time that we have allotted to each of these shows that we can cover all the material that is relevant to the cosmological argument. There are a great many allied issues that pertain to the issue of the origin and operation of the cosmos that we simply don’t have time to get into today. These are issues that are relevant to the general discussion of the validity of the Bible and the historicity of Genesis in particular – but they are outside the scope of today’s discussion. :
GREGG: I agree. But just to illustrate your point let’s look at a scenario. Suppose someone were to say to you, “there’s no such thing – or person – as God; the universe has always been here; why does there need to be a ‘creator’?” Carl Sagan once said, ‘the cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be.’
VK: Then I might reply “what about the Big Bang? What about all the scientists who have accepted it as a fact, and have gone from that point to trying to figure out the age of the earth? Afterall, the mere fact that scientists are trying to establish the age of the universe tells us they don’t think it eternal.”
GREGG: Then our hypothetical atheist might say, “But I just can’t accept all that Bible stuff – especially the Genesis stuff that says the universe is only six or seven thousand years old – that’s ridiculous – everyone knows there were dinosaurs on earth from about 120 million years ago to about sixty million years ago; where’s all that in your Bible? – isn’t that proof that the Bible is nothing more than a story – probably a myth – maybe a hoax?”
VK: Then after reading your Sunday School notes I might reply, “That brings up some interesting questions. For instance, when it comes to dating the age of the earth many people are familiar with the process of using uranium and plutonium degradation to assign a date to the earth’s age. Many people may also have heard about potassium-argon dating or carbon-14 dating. All of these have been used extensively. But what most people don’t know is that when they have been used they come up with variable and inconsistent conclusions. Yet, there is another method - helium diffusion dating – that has its foundation in research from the 1970’s and was the work of a group of very reputable scientists. And helium diffusion dating shows the universe to be about six thousand years old.
GREGG: And that is the whole reason I write those notes – to help people understand that some of the issues that people see as being settled are, in fact, very much still in doubt. To my knowledge helium diffusion dating has never been proven wrong. Furthermore, there was a leg bone of Tyrannosaurus Rex unearthed in 1990 and studied at the University of Montana. This particular leg bone was not only found to not be fully fossilized, but had blood cells and hemoglobin fragments remaining in it! How a bone that is supposed to be 60 million years old still has visible blood cells and hemoglobin is a complete mystery to scientists. But it is not a mystery if the bone is thousands of years old and not millions. The point of this scenario is to illustrate that many of the issues that people point to that they believe invalidate the Bible do not do so at all. But these are really peripheral questions that we can discuss some other time. The main question is whether or not the universe had a beginning, and the argument against there being a beginning is not only with the Bible, but with virtually all secular scientists.
VK: And that’s an important point. The most widely accepted theory of the origin of the universe today is undoubtedly the so-called “Big Bang” theory. The Big Bang theory hypothesizes that about 14 to 16 billion years ago there was a truly cosmic explosion – the Big Bang – that created all the structures that we currently see around us in the universe. Now not all scientists agree with the Big Bang theory as the best explanation for the origin of the cosmos but it is the dominant theory today. So, what we are going to do next is proceed with an analysis of how even the Big Bang theory points to the fact that, if it were true, the universe had a beginning in space and time. This does not mean that we are agreeing with the validity of the theory. We are merely demonstrating that even by secular science’s most accepted hypothesis it is inescapable that the universe is not eternal. Now, when many secular scientists are asked what caused the Big Bang they just sort of shrug their shoulders or they dismiss the question as being irrelevant. But, of course, the question is not irrelevant at all.
GREGG: No. It is not. But for today we’re going to confine ourselves to demonstrating that even if we were to accept the Big Bang theory we still find out that the universe cannot be eternal. In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we introduced the acronym SURGE to organize five categories of evidence that show that the universe had a start in space and time. So let’s look again at the S-U-R-G-E acronym for evidence of a beginning of the universe.
VK: The “S” in SURGE stands for Newton’s Second Law of Thermodynamics. According to the second law of thermodynamics - in a closed, isolated system, such as the universe is - the amount of usable energy is constantly decreasing. Or, simply put, the universe is running out of power. Therefore, it cannot be eternal. Otherwise, it would have run out of usable energy long ago.
GREGG: Exactly right. Things left to themselves, without outside intervention, tend toward disorder because of the decline in energy – the law of “entropy” [symbol S in physics, appropriately] which is a measure of the unavailability to do work, i.e., the tendency of a closed system toward disorder. Since the universe has not reached a state of total disorder, then this process has not been going on forever. The fact that the universe still has an abundance of usable energy tells us that the universe cannot be eternally old.
VK: The “U” in SURGE is for the universe which is expanding.
GREGG: Right. In 1916 Albert Einstein didn’t like where his theory of General Relativity was taking him. He was “irritated” that his calculations were indeed revealing that the universe was not eternal but had a beginning, i.e., all time, all space, and all matter had a starting point. History records how he tried to “fudge” his numbers by introducing a “constant” in order to show that the universe is static and to avoid the issue of a beginning. But in 1929 he looked through Edwin Hubble’s telescope and he could no longer avoid the obvious: the universe was indeed expanding.
VK: And I believe that the evidence that the universe is indeed expanding is often referred to as the “redshift.”
GREGG: Yes. The so-called redshift is an apparent displacement of the light waves coming from distant galaxies toward the longer wavelengths, i.e., toward the red end of the visible spectrum. This is usually interpreted as a “Doppler effect” resulting from the recession of the galaxies along the line of sight. The Doppler effect is the apparent change in the observed frequency of a wave as a result of relative motion between a source and an observer, e.g., the sound made by a low-flying aircraft as it approaches an observer is different from the sound made as it passes and flies away because of “compression” of the sound waves as it approaches, and “expansion” of the sound waves as it moves away. The redshift indicates that the distance between the galaxies is continuously increasing, i.e., the universe is continuously expanding.
VK: Does the “redshift” tell us anything else?
GREGG: Well, it told Einstein that his General Theory of Relativity was correct – much to his own disappointment. Dutch astronomer Willem de Sitter discovered that Einstein’s theory of General Relativity, if correct, required the universe to be expanding which meant it couldn’t be eternal. The rate at which the velocity of recession of the galaxies increases with distance as determined by the redshift is expressed as the Hubble constant. The reciprocal of the Hubble constant, the Hubble time, is a measure of the age of the universe, assuming that the rate of expansion has remained constant. The rate of expansion of the universe, whether speeding up or slowing down, is not fully agreed upon, but it seems likely that the gravitational attraction between the galaxies would result in slowing down the rate of expansion with time. So, there are some unknowns associated with an expanding universe but the one element that is not in debate is that it points to a universe that is not eternal.
VK: And, again after reviewing your Sunday School series, the “R” in SURGE is for the radiation echo from space, more technically known as “microwave background radiation.” By 1948 three scientists had predicted that this radiation would be in space if the so-called Big Bang actually occurred. And in 1965 two scientists at Bell Labs, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, detected cosmic radiation that was coming at them from all directions. This discovery was huge because it confirmed the presence of heat and light radiation that would be the expected afterglow from the fireball of the gigantic Big Bang explosion.
GREGG: Right. The light waves from the Big Bang are no longer visible because the wavelengths have been stretched by the expanding universe to wavelengths slightly shorter than those produced by a microwave oven. This was the nail in the coffin for any lingering hope that the universe is in an eternal steady state. Astronomer Robert Jastrow said this: “The discovery of the remnant of the primordial fireball radiation made a deep impression on astronomers. After this discovery, support for the Steady State theory weakened although some astronomers still favored it. The clincher, which has convinced all but a few doubting Thomases, is that the radiation discovered by Penzias and Wilson shows the characteristic pattern of intensities at different wavelengths and frequencies of radiation that matches the pattern of the radiation produced in an explosion … The idea of a universe that came into being abruptly is distasteful to the scientific mind. Yet the evidence for the expanding universe is too clear to be ignored.”
VK: And, the “G” is for Great Galaxy Seeds. If the Big Bang actually occurred, scientists believed that we should see slight variations, or “ripples” in the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. These ripples would allow matter to congregate by gravitational attraction into galaxies. In 1989 the search for these ripples was initiated by the satellite called COBE for Cosmic Background Explorer.
GREGG: Yes. The findings from COBE were announced in 1992 and were so incredible that Stephen Hawking called them “the most important discovery of the century, if not of all time.” What were the findings? Not only were the ripples discovered, but the ripples show that the explosion and expansion of the universe was so precise as to cause just enough matter to congregate as to allow for galaxy formation, i.e., to form “seeds,” but not enough to cause the universe to collapse back on itself. Any slight variation either way and biological life as we know it would not have been possible. The lead astronomer of the project, George Smoot, called the findings the “fingerprints of the maker.” COBE documented the presence of incredible energy seeds, the largest of which extends across one-third of the known universe.
VK: And the “E” in SURG
E is for Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity. This was the beginning of the end for the idea that the universe is eternal. The theory has been verified to five decimal places, and it demands an absolute beginning for time, space, and matter. From General Relativity came the discoveries of the expanding universe, the radiation echo, and the great galaxy seeds.
GREGG: Right. Astronomer Robert Jastrow said this in an interview with Christianity Today: “Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover . . . That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.”
VK: Now I would like to clarify something for the benefit of our audience. Today we have been speaking of the origin of the universe using the conventions that are most commonly used in scientific circles today such as “Big Bang.” But we would like to point out that there are competent scientists, both Christian and non-Christian, who would disagree with idea of a “Big Bang.” They would not disagree that empirical observations point to a beginning for the universe. But they look at the same evidence that used to support the Big Bang theory and interpret it differently.
GREGG: Right. That’s a very important note. The scientific evidence for the Cosmological Argument addresses the first premise in the argument, i.e., “The universe had a beginning.” We’ve used the SURGE acronym to make it easy to organize five categories of evidence from secular science that can be used to prove there was a beginning – usually called the “Big Bang” by the secular scientists. But as you’ve noted, not all astrophysicists are so secular, and some have postulated theories based on sound science that sound very biblical, using terms like “the deep” (Genesis 1:2), “the expanse” (1:6), and the six days of Creation. In our last episode I mentioned two books that provide alternate interpretations. The conclusions of the authors on the major question are the same. The universe had a beginning. But their understanding of the mechanics are different. The books I would direct you to are Starlight and Time by D. Russell Humphreys (Master Books, 1994), and the follow-up by the same author entitled Thousands, not Billions.
VK: When we began this discussion of the cosmological argument we said there are two forms of the cosmological argument. Thus far we have only looked at the first of the two. The first says that the cosmos or universe needed a cause at its beginning. The second form argues that it needs a cause to continue existing. The first form is called the horizontal argument because it proceeds along the time line from the beginning. The second form of the cosmological argument is called the vertical cosmological argument, and it doesn’t reason from a beginning but from the being of the universe as it now exists. But whichever form of the argument is used, the scientific evidence that we have been talking about supports the cosmological argument. It is evidence that reasons back to a Cause of the beginning of the universe.

GREGG: And this kind of evidence can be effective in helping bring people to the truth. For instance, as we mentioned last time, Jastrow started out as an agnostic but he came around to the fact that the nature of the universe persuaded him that the universe needed a creator.
VK: Well, we hope everyone will join us next time as we continue this fascinating discussion about the arguments and evidence that demonstrates that there is a firm basis in logic and reason for our Christian faith. This sounds like a great time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our friends. Good friends are a blessing from God and we should all take time regularly to pray for God’s mercy and favor to be with them.
---- PRAYER FOR FRIENDS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
Genesis, Chapter 1, verses 3 and 4, New Living Translation

Episode 148 – Truth and Proof – Part 8 – Purpose and Design
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty. God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad.
Ecclesiastes, Chapter 12, verses 13 and 14, New Living Translation
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Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as we continue our series we’ve called “Truth and Proof.” This series is all about helping our listeners think carefully about their faith. Specifically, we want people to understand that the Christian faith is not a belief system that requires its followers to abandon their brains when they surrender their hearts to Jesus. Far from it. Jesus told his followers that they were supposed to love God with all their heart, soul, strength, and mind. Yet, all too often today we are told that we must choose between faith and reason or between faith and science. But that’s a false dichotomy. And today to help us explore the solid foundation of logic and reason that supports Christianity we have RD Fierro in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, on Anchored by Truth, we often cover the fact that the world’s demand is not only unnecessary but it is also unreasonable, don’t we?
RD: We certainly do and the reason we do is because that demand gets circulated almost continuously in the popular culture and media. And even many Christians are taken in by it. The idea that people must abandon their confidence in logic, reason, and science if they want to be faithful Christians is practically a pillar of every show that purports to discuss issues that pertain to the origin of the world and cosmos. It’s become such a staple of modern philosophy that it serves as a great illustration of the old aphorism that if you tell a lie often enough people will begin to accept the lie as the truth. Our culture has completely lost sight of the fact that some of the greatest minds of the last 2,000 years – including scientists who founded major branches of modern science were devout Christians. Gottfried Leibnitz and Sir Isaac Newton who invented calculus were Christians. So, was Johann Kepler who articulated the major laws of planetary motion. Ditto for Robert Boyle who is regarded as the first modern chemist and the founder of modern chemistry. And Carolus Linnaeus who is credited with establishing the modern taxonomic system was also a Biblical creationist. The list goes on and on.
VK: The point is that many people today regard Christians as being almost simple minded. But nothing could be further from the truth.
RD: I agree. 10, 20, or 30 years ago we lived in a culture that readily accepted Christianity even if some individuals did not. 50 years ago you would even find some support for the Christian world view taught in grade schools and high schools because the truth of Christianity was widely accepted. But those days are long behind us. Our broader culture is not only not receptive to Christianity, but also it is outright intolerant of it. And some elements of our society are vehemently hostile. We have entered one of those periods of history where Christians can no longer be complacent. The opposition to Christianity enters every home, every day if in no other way through the internet and the so-called mainstream media outlets. Arguments against the validity of Christianity are all around us. If we do not actively prepare to counter them, first within our homes and then in our communities, the fabric of our society will continue to erode.
VK: But the good news is that it does not have to be that way, does it? We have the truth on our side. But we must equip ourselves to be able to present that truth. It is not up to us to change anyone’s heart. That’s God’s job. Our job is just to be able to witness to the truth in gentle and respectful ways.
RD: Yes. The good news is that the truth is on our side – and that’s what we have been reviewing in this series. We called this series “Truth and Proof” because the first task we undertook was to demonstrate that absolute truth exists. And then we have proceeded to show the lines of reasoning that support the proof of that truth.
VK: And many of the ideas that we have been discussing fall within the larger umbrella of what is termed apologetics. Simply put, apologetics is a defense of the Christian faith. And thus far in our series we have gone over two apologetic approaches: a metaphysical approach to apologetics and a cosmological approach to apologetics. And anyone who would like to review those approaches in detail can simply listen to earlier versions of the “Truth and Proof” series on their favorite podcast app. Today’s lesson is the 8th in this series and we anticipate that there will be two more episodes in this series after todays. That will make a total of 10 episodes in the Truth and Proof series. So, today we want to move on to another apologetic approach – the teleological approach.
RD: Right. In our last couple of lessons we discussed the cosmological argument for the existence of God. It’s the first of the commonly used arguments, but probably not the one used the most in the media, in books, or in casual conversation. The argument most likely to be used is the Teleological Argument – better known as the argument from “Intelligent Design.” “Teleological” comes from the Greek word telos, meaning “end, or purpose.” “In brief, the teleological argument reasons from design to an intelligent Designer:
• All designs imply a designer.
• There is great design in the universe.
• Therefore, there must be a Great Designer of the universe.
In his Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics Norman Geisler put it this way: “Any time we have seen a complex design, we know by previous experience that it came from the mind of a designer. Watches imply watchmakers; buildings imply architects; paintings imply artists; and coded messages imply an intelligent sender.
VK: Geisler went on to say, “the greater the design, the greater the designer. Beavers make log dams, but they have never constructed anything like the Golden Gate Bridge. A thousand monkeys sitting at typewriters for millions of years would never produce Hamlet by accident. Shakespeare did it on the first try. The more complex the design, the greater the intelligence required to produce it.”
RD: Well, having written a few things myself I’m not sure if Shakespeare necessarily did it on the first try but it certainly didn’t take him millions, thousands, or hundreds of years. The point is that only an intelligent being can form letters into words, words into sentences, sentences into paragraphs, paragraphs into books, books into libraries. Yet, the complexity of Hamlet is miniscule when compared to the genetic code. The genetic code, which is really the genetic message, contained in one amoeba equals the information in 1,000 sets of encyclopedias. There is no such thing as simple life! We see evidence of incredibly sophisticated and complicated design in the micro-universe of the genetic code, but we also see it in the macro-universe of the solar system, the stars, and the galaxies.
VK: There is a principle that is sometimes referred to as the anthropic principle. The Greek word, “anthropos, means human being. The anthropic principle states that the universe was fitted from the very first moment of its existence for the emergence of life in general and human life in particular. If there were even the slightest variation in the conditions of the universe, even to a small degree, no life of any kind would exist. In order for life to be present there is an incredibly restrictive set of demands that must be present in the universe – and they are. All of our empirical observations tell us this. Not only does the scientific evidence point to a beginning of the cosmos, but it points to a very sophisticated high tuning of the universe from the very beginning that makes human life possible. For life to be present today, an incredibly restrictive set of demands must have been present in the early universe.
RD: And this evidence of design is well recognized by scientists. Astrophysicist Robert Dicke said “that in fact it may be necessary for the universe to have the enormous size and complexity which modern astronomy has revealed, in order for the earth to be a possible habitation for living beings.” Astronomer Alan Sandage states that “the world is too complicated in all of its parts to be due to chance alone. I am convinced that the existence of life with all its order in each of its organisms is simply too well put together. Each part of a living thing depends on all its other parts to function. How does each part know? The more one learns . . . the more unbelievable it becomes unless there is some kind of organizing principle – an architect.”
Likewise, the mass, the entropy level of the universe, the stability of the proton, and innumerable other things must be just right to make life possible.
VK: Even Stephen Hawking who was not a friend of Christianity said “There may only be a small number of laws, which are self-consistent and which lead to complicated beings like ourselves who can ask the question: What is the nature of God?” And Albert Einstein seems to have almost anticipated Hawking’s question when he wrote “The harmony of natural law . . . reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.”
RD: And writer, broadcaster, professor, “astrobiologist,” cosmologist, and physicist Paul Davies – who typically indicates his religious belief as “undecided” – wrote in 1989, “There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all. . . . It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe. . . . The impression of design is overwhelming.”
VK: But understandably and predictably just because the universe contains an abundance of evidence of being designed there are those who don’t accept the testimony of the evidence. The arguments against intelligent design come from those who don’t believe in an intelligent designer. For them the answer to the question of how things came to be as they are is, of course, evolution. One point of Charles Darwin’s work was to establish that random purposeless natural processes can substitute for intelligent design. Darwin wrote in The Origin of Species that he was convinced that natural selection was the main mechanism responsible for the evolution of life from simple forms to complex forms.
RD: And writer and Oxford zoologist Richard Dawkins begins his book The Blind Watchmaker with the statement “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” His book’s title challenged the work of William Paley (1743-1805) who used the analogy of a watchmaker to support the teleological argument for the existence of God which argues from the evidence of design to the necessity of a designer. Paley built on the arguments of Socrates, Plato, Philo, and Aquinas, and believed that the complexity of the world implies a great designer. Paley studied the physical world for evidence of purpose. He concluded that a designing intelligence was responsible for the features of the natural world, and he identified this intelligence with the God of Christianity. His argument for design was published in 1802 as Natural Theology: Evidences of the Existence and Attributes of the Deity, Collected from the Appearances of Nature, and his work remains a foundational pillar of the debate over “Intelligent Design.”
VK: Dawkins and Tufts philosopher/sociologist Daniel Dennett are among the most visible, most vocal, and most angry of the atheists who have in the last few decades led an attack on the existence of God. Dawkins’ attitudes are summarized in this statement recorded in the April 9, 1989 New York Times: “It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid, or insane.” Some people have observed that as a scientist Dawkins is mediocre but as an apologist for atheism he is unparalleled. So, that opens up the question why do so many prominent scientists resist and reject God?
RD: Simply put, scientists in our day and age have a profound bias toward materialism. In other words in their world view the only thing that exists is matter. Now this is not true of all scientists by any means. There are many fine, competent scientists who are not only outstanding scientists in their fields but also strong Biblical creationists. But, in this case, the exception identifies the rule. And one of the most amazing things about this situation is that science itself, that is the objective pursuit of the acquisition of knowledge about our universe through disciplined study, does not require that they be philosophical materialists. But most are either by individual bias or indoctrination through our education system. And even more amazingly many of them recognize this bias and the fact that is unnecessary for scientific purposes. Why don’t you read that quote from Harvard evolutionary biologist and geneticist Richard Lewontin:
VK: Lewontin wrote: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failures to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
RD: So, let’s compare Lewontin’s statement with the statement we heard earlier from the opening of Richard Dawkins book The Blind Watchmaker. Dawkins said “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” So, Dawkins acknowledges that the evidence for design exists in nature. He just doesn’t like the conclusion that the evidence leads to. So, Dawkins observes the evidence, acknowledges where it leads, but then changes direction because he doesn’t like the destination. Lewontin simply says out loud the forbidden truth that this change of direction isn’t necessary according to the rules of science. Rather, it comes about because the individual persons – or persons – just don’t like the thought that the presence of design also means the presence of a Designer. So, instead of acknowledging that Designer the materialist, the scientist, adopts conventions and rules that exclude, in Lewontin’s words, “a Divine Foot in the door.”
VK: Yikes. I don’t know whether that’s sad, scary, or both.
RD: Probably both, but at a minimum the one thing that such an a priori commitment is not is “scientific.” And a great many scientists have recognized this. For instance Michael Denton who is a British-Australian author and biochemist wrote a book in 1985 entitled Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Evolution: A Theory in Crisis was published the year before Dawkins Blind Watchmaker. Well, those books set off a sort of chain reaction of other books where the debate about the presence of design in nature received a lot of attention. In effect, what we saw in several publications was an extended presentation of the teleological argument for the existence of God.
VK: For instance, in 1991 Berkeley law professor Phillip Johnson wrote a book called Darwin on Trial. Johnson’s book was so compelling that the debate about design in nature and supernatural Designer was forever changed. Johnson wrote “In brief, what makes me a ‘critic of evolution’ is that I distinguish between naturalistic philosophy and empirical science, and oppose the former when it comes cloaked in the authority of the latter.” Johnson’s critics retreated into the defensive posture of “specialized scientific knowledge” inaccessible to a legal scholar, but many of these were the same champions of evolution who had previously argued for its simplicity. Johnson answered the critics in 1995 with Reason in the Balance, subtitled “The Case Against Naturalism in Science, Law, and Education.”
RD: And Johnson quickly gained support from biochemist Michael Behe who wrote Darwin’s Black Box in 1996. Behe explained the intricate interactions of cellular components and molecular mechanisms, showing that biological systems are irreducibly complex. This means that systems are “composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to cease functioning.” Behe asserted that any irreducibly complex system cannot be produced by slight, successive modifications of a precursor, because any precursor to the system would be, by definition, non-functional.
VK: So, when Behe [BEE-HEE] pointed out that irreducibly complex systems could not be produced by a series of minor changes in a biological organism he was effectively pointing out that Darwin criticism of his own theory was valid. In The Origin of Species Darwin wrote a chapter entitled “Difficulties of the Theory.” It happened to be chapter 6. In that chapter Darwin offered some comments on the evolution of the eye which have been widely quoted since he wrote them. Darwin said this about his own theory. Now, remember, this is Charles Darwin talking about his own conclusion that the eye could have evolved through a Darwinian type series of steps. Darwin wrote: “To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.”
RD: Darwin went on, of course, to give an explanation of how he thought it could have happened. But Behe took Darwin’s argument apart by showing that Darwin speculated on how the eye and vision might have happened but Darwin never considered the most fundamental question, i.e., how did vision happen? Darwin looked only at the anatomy – which was all he could look at because 19th century science had no knowledge of biochemistry as we have it today. But in his book Behe, went through the dozens of biochemical changes that are involved in a photon of light striking the retina and this enabling the brain to form an image. After walking us through the very complicated biochemistry of vision Behe says this:
“To Darwin, vision was a black box, but after the cumulative hard work of many biochemists, we are now approaching answers to the question of sight. . . . Each of the anatomical steps and structures that Darwin thought were so simple actually involves staggeringly complicated biochemical processes that cannot be papered over with rhetoric. . . . Anatomy is, quite simply, irrelevant to the question of whether evolution could take place on the molecular level. So is the fossil record. Neither do the patterns of biogeography matter, nor those of population biology, nor the traditional theory for rudimentary organs or species abundance. . . Until recently, however, evolutionary biologists could be unconcerned with the molecular details of life because so little was known about them. Now the black box of the cell has been opened, and the infinitesimal world that stands revealed must be explained.”
VK: So, what Behe was pointing out was that the appearance of design in nature wasn’t just apparent in the anatomical structures that we can see, that Darwin could see, but in the very molecular chemistry that comprises those structures. Again, design isn’t just present in the big structures of the universe – the stars and galaxies – but in the very tiniest ones as well. And how can you have design anywhere at any level without a Designer? You can’t.
RD: Right. And if vision is a dramatic example of a biological system that can’t arise in the absence of design the clotting system that is present in blood is even more dramatic. For a clot to form over a cut and stop an animal from bleeding to death even more biomolecular steps are involved than in vision. But the clotting system only works a system. Miss one step and clots never form. The blood clotting system was designed. It had to be. It could not arise in an evolutionary fashion because any animal that didn’t have the entire system would die before it could randomly pass along any of its genes.
VK: Well, before we close for today let’s mention one more book that participated in the design debate. A mathematician and philosopher William Dembski published his book The Design Inference in 1998. Dembski saw a possible flaw in Behe’s work. So, he strengthened the concept of irreducible complexity to include a minimal complexity condition, stating that “this condition says that the system cannot be simplified and still retain the level of function needed for selective advantage.” Dembski defined intelligent design as the science that studies signs of design, and he notes that intelligence leaves behind a characteristic trademark or signature – what he calls specified complexity.
RD: Right. Dembski and others have looked for signs ranging from the microscopic to the telescopic. As we mentioned at the start of today’s episode, not only do biological systems show the signs of intelligent design, but also the universe in general displays the “anthropic principle” – that the cosmos is precisely designed for the emergence and sustenance of life, and especially human life, on earth. In the simplest terms, “the cosmos gives evidence of design.”
VK: The irresistible conclusion from this line of reasoning is that the evidence of design is present throughout the universe. It’s present in the cosmos. It’s present in the cell. It’s present in our consciousness. You cannot have design anywhere without a Designer. And in the universe doesn’t just have design in a few places. It has it everywhere.
RD: Right. Biochemist, atheist, and co-discoverer of DNA, the late Francis Crick, began studying biochemistry in the 1940’s as a way to disprove the existence of God. But, in fact, what he discovered was that there was an irreducibly complex information system at the heart of all life. Crick was a phenomenal scientist but he wrong about God. His materialistic presuppositions prevented him from acknowledging the very truth that his own work pointed out. But this shouldn’t surprise us. Romans, chapter 1, verse 20, has been pointing out this problem with human nature for 2,000 years.
VK: That verse says, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” Crick believed there is no God, but God has the final word. Psalm 14, verse 1 says, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” Well, we hope everyone will join us next time as we continue this fascinating discussion about the arguments and evidence that demonstrates that there is a firm basis in logic and reason for our Christian faith. This sounds like a time to go to God I prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for all those around the world who suffer for their faith. We should all take time to regularly pray for God’s mercy and favor to be with them.
---- PRAYER FOR PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
Ecclesiastes, Chapter 12, verses 13 and 14, New Living Translation

Episode 149 – Truth and Proof – Part 9 – The New Testament is Reliable
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
…why are some of you saying there will be no resurrection of the dead? For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your faith is useless.
1 Corinthians, Chapter 15, verses 12 through 14, New Living Translation
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Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. As listeners who have been with us for the last several episodes know we have been working on a series that addresses Christian apologetics. We’ve called this series “Truth and Proof.” This series was inspired by Dr. Gregg Alexander who has been teaching Sunday school for more than 25 years. Several years ago Dr. Alexander developed a very similar series for his class. When we learned about it, we were so impressed we wanted everyone to have access to the wonderful work Dr. Alexander had done. And Dr. Alexander has been kind enough to join us on a few of our episodes during the series. But today we are joined by another special guest. Today on the show we have Doug Apple who is the manager of the WAVE-94 radio station in Tallahassee, Florida. Doug is an extremely faithful student of the Bible and he has thought deeply about his faith. Doug would you like to take a couple of minutes and tell us a little about yourself?
DOUG: - Introductory comments -
VK: Wow. 14 grandchildren! That’s such a blessing and I’m sure one of the reasons Doug has been so blessed is because of his love for – and dedication to – God’s Word. Doug is so serious about his love of scripture that he has taken upon himself to memorize entire books of the Bible including several from the New Testament. So, it’s particularly appropriate for us to have Doug here today because today on Anchored by Truth we are going to tackle one of the most important topics about the truth of Christianity – the reliability of the New Testament documents. The New Testament is the part of the Bible that tells us about Jesus’s life, death, and resurrection.
DOUG: And, of course, we get the very title of our faith from Jesus. Jesus was the Christ. The term “Christ” comes from the Greek word Christos which means the “anointed one” or the “chosen one.” This is the same term as “Messiah” which came from the ancient Hebrew word “Mashiach.” So, Christianity is essentially a belief in the work and person of Christ. And while that sounds very simple to say it’s actually a truth so profound we’ll spend all eternity understanding it more thoroughly. But we certainly begin our understanding of that truth by reading the New Testament documents. As such, knowing that the New Testament is reliable and true is a fundamental part of demonstrating that the God that logic tells us must exist is, in fact, the God of the Bible.
VK: Christianity depends entirely on the historical person of Jesus Christ. Otherwise Paul could not have said the verse that we heard in our opening scripture from 1 Corinthians. Notice that Paul said, “For if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless, and your faith is useless.” The Apostle Paul stated very plainly that the Christian faith is all about Jesus. And, while there is information about the Messiah in the Old Testament, that information is prophetic. The Old Testament anticipates the arrival of Jesus. But it is in the New Testament that hear we hear about that arrival. Therefore, since the New Testament is the primary source of information about the words and works of Christ, if it is not accurate then we do not possess a first-hand account of Jesus’ claims, character, and credentials. The historical integrity of the New Testament is crucial to Christian apologetics.
DOUG: Before we get too much into our discussion about why we can have confidence in the reliability of the New Testament, we should probably note that there are some people who believe that no history can be objectively known. Unfortunately, we live in a time when the past is often manipulated by the subjective desires of historians, writers, politicians, social change advocates, con artists, or others who have an agenda that is served by a revision of history. Political correctness doesn’t just affect how contemporary issues are being framed. It is also being woven into all kinds of discussions of history. Pretty much everyone who is paying attention knows that. But political correctness is not what I’m talking about here. There is a strain of thought among some elites, especially academic elites, who believe that it is impossible for us to know anything true from or about history.
VK: But the kind of radical skepticism that would say that history is objectively unknowable eliminates the possibility of knowing anything at all about the past. As soon as we get anywhere close to such a radical belief all university history and classical departments evaporate – there is no source about past events that can be trusted. Such skepticism would eliminate all historical science, such as anthropology, geology, paleontology, archaeology, and forensic science because each of these depends on examining and interpreting remains or evidence from the past. Since everything not occurring now is history, such a belief system would eliminate all eyewitness testimony. Even living witnesses could only testify to what they saw at some other point in time. But if this skepticism were true their testimony would not be considered relevant, real, or accurate. On the other hand, if their testimony could be accepted while they are living, wouldn’t it also be true to say that the records they leave behind are just as credible as their testimony in the present time?
DOUG: And, another question: isn’t a statement that says we can’t objectively know history an attempt at establishing an absolute and objective truth about history? The statement that “The past is not objectively knowable” is itself an objective statement about the past. Therefore, the position against the knowability of history is self-defeating. It fails the test of its own central premise. In effect, metaphorically speaking, the idea that we can’t know anything true from or about history shoots itself in the head.
VK: So, let’s move on to talking about the reliability of the New Testament documents. As we have indicated without a reliable New Testament, we have no objective, historical way to know what Jesus said or did. We cannot establish whether Jesus was God, what Jesus taught, or what His followers did and taught. We must know if the sources or witnesses used by the authors were reliable, and we must show that the manuscripts were written early enough and with enough attention to detail to be accurate records of actual events. As we look at these questions, we will see that we have every reason to be confident in the accuracy of the New Testament.
DOUG: So, what you’ve proposed is that the first step in establishing the historical accuracy of the New Testament is to show that the documents were written by reliable eyewitnesses of the events or their contemporaries. And the second step you mentioned is to show that the New Testament documents have been accurately transmitted from the time of their original autographs, i.e. the original documents, down from the time of their creation to our time. And contrary to what many critics believe and say, there is more evidence for the historical accuracy of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ than for any other event from the ancient world. These issues are a crucial part of the overall rational defense of Christianity.
VK: So, let’s start by looking first at one of the things we just mentioned: the dating of the New Testament manuscripts. One of the things we want to determine is whether they were “early enough?” In other words, were they prepared close enough in time to the events they tell us about to be reliable? Critics of the Bible and of Christianity would have better arguments if they are able to separate the actual events from the records of those events by as much time as possible. If they can stretch out the time from the date of the event to when the event was first recorded they can argue that the New Testament writers created the events rather than reported them. This then permits them to argue that the New Testament, especially the Gospels, more than likely contains myths. This is a common assertion among scholars. The longer the time between an event and the first record made about it the more likely that embellishments will creep in. And another thing we want to determine is the question of authorship. Said differently, we want to be sure that the record writer was not too greatly removed from the event. Distance is not a problem if the writer was also an eye witness of the event, but historical records are often prepared by people who were not eye witnesses themselves. But we would still consider a record to be reliable if the writer spoke directly to an eye witness or had direct access to supporting information such as records or artifacts that corroborated key details.
DOUG: So, let’s take a look at some specifics at one of the most important books of the New Testament, the book of Acts. The Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts were both written by Luke. The person to whom they were written “Theophilus”, the style, and the vocabulary indicate that they were, indeed, written by the same person. The date and authenticity of the Acts of the Apostles is crucial to the historical account of early Christianity, because if Acts was written before AD 70 then it has great historical value in informing us of the earliest Christian beliefs. AD 70 is a crucial date because that was when the famous Roman general and later emperor, Titus, destroyed Jerusalem. When Titus destroyed Jerusalem a great many Jews died and the rest were scattered. The nation of Israel disappeared in 70 AD and would not be restored for almost 2 millennia. It was ultimately reconstituted in 1948 by the allies after World War II.
VK: So, if the book of Acts was written before 70 AD there’s a much better chance Luke would have been able to speak to eyewitnesses while they were still alive. And the fact that Acts was written by Luke is also crucial. We know from Paul’s letters that Luke was a companion of the Apostle Paul during many of his ministry travels. Therefore, if Acts was written by Luke, it brings us right to the apostolic circle. In other words this means Acts was written by someone who would been a close companion to those who participated in the events reported. And Luke himself was likely an eyewitness to some of the events. In other words, we have the very closest relationship of the author to the historical report.
DOUG: Right. So, that is one big point about the historicity of the book of Acts. The author would have had personal knowledge of the events he recorded or he spoke to people who had personal knowledge. As to the question of the when Acts as written, the traditional date assigned to the creation of Acts is 62 AD. This means it was written before the loss of many of the eyewitnesses from the destruction of Jerusalem. It also means it was written by a contemporary of Jesus himself because Jesus died in approximately 33 AD. One person who has assigned a date for the composition of Acts to no later than 62 AD is Roman historian Colin Hemer. Hemer cites a wide range of evidence for his view. For instance, there is no mention in the book of Acts of the fall of Jerusalem. This would be an extremely unlikely omission if the fall of Jerusalem had already occurred. Acts contains no hint of the outbreak of the Jewish War which occurred in AD 66. Acts also does not mention the dramatic deterioration of relations between Romans and Jews which preceded the war. This implies it was written before that time. Moreover, there is no hint of the deterioration of Christian relations with Rome which was caused by Nero’s persecution of the Christians in the late 60s. Hemer believes that Acts was most likely composed between 60 AD and 62 AD because of these and other factors.
VK: The other factors include the fact that there is no hint of the death of Jesus’ half-brother, James, at the hands of the Sanhedrin. According to the famous Jewish historian, Josephus, in his book, Antiquities, James was martyred in 62 AD. Had the martyrdom of James already occurred it is extremely unlikely that Luke would have ignored an event that important to the early church. Also, the prominence and authority of the Jewish sect called the Sadducees noted in Acts belongs to the pre-70 AD era. This indicates that Acts was written before the collapse of the Sadducees’ political cooperation with Rome.

DOUG: Yes. Also, Luke doesn’t give any indication in the book of Acts that he is aware of Paul’s letters, his epistles, to the various churches in Greece and Asia. In both his gospel and in Acts Luke is very careful about getting particular details right. If Acts was written later in the first century, why wouldn’t Luke have attempted to support his historical account by citing relevant sections of the Epistles? The Epistles evidently circulated through the churches and must have become available sources because they were passed along in every generation. This silence suggests that Acts was written early during the apostolic era. Finally, the ending of the book of Acts does not continue Paul’s story. It simply stops at the end of the two year described in Acts 28, verses 30-31.
VK: Those verses say “For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. Boldly and without hindrance he preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.”
DOUG: So, the fact that Acts just ends with a simple declaration of what Paul had been doing for the previous two years makes it look very much like Luke was just bringing his narrative up to date at that point. Remember, that Luke tells us that he was writing both of the books attributed to him to a man named Theophilus in order for Theophilus to “know the certainty of the things you have been taught.” In his book, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History, Hemer says, “It may be argued simply that Luke had brought the narrative up to date at the time of writing, the final note being added at the conclusion of the two years.” So, all of these factors tell us that the date for the composition of the book of Acts was quite likely not later than 62 AD and may have been even earlier.
VK: So why have we spent so much time now focusing on demonstrating that the book of Acts is a reliable record of history. How does this fit in to our larger goal of establishing that the God that exists is the God of the Bible?
DOUG: Because, if Acts is shown to be accurate history, then it brings credibility to its reports about the most basic Christian beliefs. For instance, the book of Acts contains accounts of the life, death (Acts 2:23), resurrection (Acts 2:23, 29–32), and ascension of Christ (Acts 1:9–10). It also contains the records of a number of miracles (Acts 2:22) and it gives us important contextual information that enable us to make better use of that Paul’s letters to the churches that are also important parts of the New Testament.
VK: Acts also contains significant details about Jerusalem, Rome, and many other geographical areas that have been extensively substantiated by historical and archaeological research. In other words, Acts is confirmed by overwhelming evidence. Nothing like this amount of detailed confirmation exists for any other book from antiquity. This is not only a direct confirmation of the earliest Christian belief in the death and resurrection of Christ, but also, indirectly, of the Gospel record, since Luke also wrote a detailed Gospel. The evidence that we have that validates Acts confirms not only the historical accuracy of the book of Acts but also the reliability and validity of several other books of the New Testament.
DOUG: Exactly. Luke’s Gospel directly parallels the Gospels of Mark and Matthew. As we’ve been talking about, the best evidence is that Acts was composed around AD 60 which places its composition only about twenty-seven years after the traditional dating of the death of Jesus. This places the writing during the lifetime of eyewitnesses to the events recorded – and as we have mentioned this enhances our confidence in the trustworthiness of what it reports. This dating of Acts does not allow time for any mythological development by persons living generations after the events. Furthermore, if Luke wrote Acts, then his “former treatise” (Acts 1:1), the Gospel of Luke, should be seen as written at an even earlier date, and, therefore, easily within the life-time of apostles and eye-witnesses who could have refuted all or part of Luke’s Gospel if he had gotten anything wrong.
VK: And as we have mentioned in other episodes of Anchored by Truth we have to remember that all of the New Testament documents were being written in a world that was largely hostile to Christianity. If Luke had been creating fabrications it would have been easy for the people of the time to rebut his books and many of the people of the time had a strong motivation for doing so. The fact that Luke’s records have survived with the content they did tells us that he was reporting the truth.
DOUG: So, let’s take a quick look at some of the other writings of Paul. It is widely accepted by critical and conservative scholars that 1st Corinthians was written by AD 55 or 56. This is only about a quarter century after the crucifixion. Further, in 1 Corinthians Paul speaks of “most” of the 500 eyewitnesses to the resurrection who were still alive when he wrote (15:6). This shows that was a substantial body of people at the time that Paul wrote who could confirm the central fact of the Christian faith, Christ’s resurrection from the dead.
VK: And along with 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians and Galatians are known to be early. All three reveal a historical interest in the events of Jesus’ life and give facts that agree with the Gospels. Paul speaks of Jesus’ virgin birth (Galatians 4:4), sinless life (2 Corinthians 5:21), death on the cross (1 Corinthians 15:3); resurrection on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:4), and post-resurrection appearances (1 Corinthians 15:5-8). Paul also gives historical details about Jesus’ contemporaries, the apostles (1 Corinthians 15:5-8), including his private encounters with Peter and the apostles (Galatians 1:18-2:14).
DOUG: Critics of the New Testament sometimes claim that the New Testament was not written until almost 400 years after Jesus lived – but these critics are confusing the date that the New Testament documents were written with the time at which they were compiled into the form that we most commonly see them today. We have abundant evidence that the New Testament documents were all prepared well before the end of the 1st century AD. For example, we know that the many of the books of the New Testament were widely quoted by the early church fathers starting in the late 1st century AD. Well for the early church fathers to quote the documents they had to have already been in wide circulation.
VK: For instance, of the four Gospels alone there are 19,368 citations by the church fathers from the late first century on. This includes 268 by Justin Martyr who lived from 100 AD until 165 AD. There were 1017 by Clement of Alexandria who lived from approximately 155 AD to 220 AD and there were 3822 by Tertullian who lived around the same time.
DOUG: And even earlier, Clement of Rome cited Matthew, John, and 1 Corinthians in AD 95-97. Ignatius referred to six Pauline Epistles in about 110 AD, and between 110 and 150 Polycarp quoted from all four Gospels, Acts, and most of Paul’s Epistles. Papias who was a companion of Polycarp quoted from the Gospel of John. This is particularly significant because Polycarp knew John personally and was a disciple of the apostle John. This argues powerfully that the Gospels were in existence before the end of the first century, while eyewitnesses (including the Apostle John) were still alive. Jose O’Callahan, a Spanish Jesuit paleographer, made headlines around the world on March 18, 1972, when he identified a manuscript fragment from the Dead Sea Scrolls, Qumran Cave 7 as a piece of the Gospel of Mark. Fragments from this cave had previously been dated between 50 BC and AD 50 which in 1972 was not typically thought of as being within the time frame for New Testament writings. Using the accepted methods of papyrology and paleography, O’Callahan compared sequences of letters with existing documents and eventually identified nine fragments as belonging to one Gospel, Acts, and a few Epistles. Some of these were dated slightly later than 50, but still extremely early.
VK: Both friends and critics agreed that, if valid, O’Callahan’s conclusions revolutionize New Testament theories. If O’Callahan is correct, the implications for Christian apologetics are enormous. The Gospel of Mark must have been written within the lifetimes of the apostles and contemporaries of the events. This completely eliminates any time for mythological embellishment of the record. It must be accepted as historical. And since the manuscripts found in the Dead Sea scrolls are not originals but copies, the originals would have necessarily been written earlier. This means these parts of the New Testament would have certainly been copied and disseminated during the lives of the writers. These early dates do not allow time for myths or legends to creep into the stories about Jesus. Historians generally agree legend development takes at least two full generations. Even putting aside O’Callahan’s claims, the cumulative evidence places the New Testament documents within the first century and the lives of eyewitnesses of Jesus’s life and resurrection.
DOUG: There is a growing acceptance of early New Testament dates, even among some critical scholars. Let’s take a quick look at two of them illustrate this point: former liberal archeologist William F. Albright and radical critic John A. T. Robinson. Albright wrote, “We can already say emphatically that there is no longer any solid basis for dating any book of the New Testament after about AD 80, two full generations before the date between 130 and 150 given by the more radical New Testament critics of today” (Recent Discoveries in Bible Lands, 136). Elsewhere Albright said, “In my opinion, every book of the New Testament was written by a baptized Jew between the forties and the eighties of the first century (very probably sometime between about AD 50 and 75)” (“Toward a More Conservative View,” 3). Known for his role in launching the “Death of God” movement, Robinson wrote a revolutionary book entitled Redating the New Testament. In it he determined that the New Testament books should be dated even earlier than even the most conservative scholars ever believed. Robinson places Matthew at AD 40-60, Mark at about 45-60, Luke at or before 57-60, and John at 40-65. This would mean that one or two Gospels could have been written as early as 7-10 years after the crucifixion. At the latest they were all composed within the lifetimes of eyewitnesses and contemporaries of the events who could have refuted any parts of the accounts had they been in error.

VK: In short we have very strong evidence that the New Testament documents were written very close to the time of the events they record. We know that they were composed by either eyewitnesses to the events or the authors had direct access to eyewitnesses. And we have so many quotations from the original documents in the writings of the early church fathers we can be very sure that the transmission of the original texts was reliable. This sounds like a time to go to God I prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our country – that God’s hand of mercy and provision would be with us now and always.
---- PRAYER FOR THE NATION (MARCUS)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
1 Corinthians, Chapter 15, verses 12 through 14, New Living Translation

SELECTED FACTS THAT DEMONSTRATE THE HISTORICITY OF ACTS

Archaeologists at first believed Luke's implication wrong that Lystra and Derbe were in Lycaonia and Iconium was not (Acts 14:6). They based their belief on the writings of Romans such as Cicero who indicated that Iconium was in Lycaonia. Thus, archaeologists said the Book of Acts was unreliable. However, in 1910, Sir William Ramsay found a monument that showed that Iconium was a Phrygian city. Later discoveries confirm this.
Evidence That Demands a Verdict - Ch. 4 p. 8 (angelfire.com)

Similarly, Luke’s identifying Gallio as proconsul of Achaia in A.D. 51 has been confirmed by a discovered inscription at Delphi (18:12). His report of Claudius’ expulsion of the Jews from Rome around A.D. 49 is referred to by Suetonius (Life of Claudius, 25:4). His incidental reference to Felix as Roman procurator along with his Jewish wife Drusilla is corroborated both by both Josephus and Tacitus (24:24, cf. Ant. 20:131–43, History, 5:9, Annals, 12:54). His identification of Festus as Felix’s successor is likewise confirmed by Jospehus and Suetonius (Ant. 20:182; Claudius, 28). And his mentioning of Agrippa II and Bernice, elder sister of Drusilla and widow of Herod, is again corroborated by Jospehus (25:13, cf. Ant. 20:145).
Is the Book of Acts Reliable? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

The topographical position of Iconium is clearly indicated in Acts, and the evidence of Ac has been confirmed by recent research. Was Iconium in Phrygia or in Lycaonia, and in what sense can it be said to have belonged to one ethnical division or the other? The majority of our ancient authorities (e.g. Cicero, Strabo, Pliny), writing from the point of view of Roman provincial administration, give Iconium to Lycaonia, of which geography makes it the natural capital. But Xenophon, who marched with Cyrus' expedition through Phrygia into Lycaonia, calls Iconium the last city of Phrygia. The writer of Acts 14:6 makes the same statement when he represents Paul and Barnabas as fleeing from Iconium to the cities of Lycaonia--implying that the border of Phrygia and Lycaonia passed between Iconium and Lystra, 18 miles to the South. Other ancient authorities who knew the local conditions well speak of Iconium as Phrygian until far into the Roman imperial period. At the neighboring city of Lystra (Acts 14:11), the natives used the "speech of Lycaonia." Two inscriptions in the Phrygian language found at Iconium in 1910 prove that the Phrygian language was in use there for 2 centuries after Paul's visits, and afford confirmation of the interesting topographical detail in Ac (see Jour. Hell. Stud., 1911, 189).
In the apostolic period, Iconium was one of the chief cities in the southern part of the Roman province Galatia, and it probably belonged to the "Phrygian region" mentioned in Acts 16:6. The emperor Claudius conferred on it the title Claudiconium, which appears on coins of the city and on inscriptions, and was formerly taken as a proof that Claudius raised the city to the rank of a Roman colonia. It was Hadrian who raised the city to colonial rank; this is proved by its new title, Colonia Aelia Hadriana Iconiensium, and by a recently discovered inscription, which belongs to the reign of Hadrian, and which mentions the first duumvir who was appointed in the new colonia. Iconium was still a Hellenic city, but with a strong pro-Roman bias (as proved by its title "Claudian") when Paul visited it.
Iconium - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (biblestudytools.com)

Episode 150 – Truth and Proof – Part 10 – An Inescapable God
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship. Day after day they continue to speak; night after night they make him known… their message has gone throughout the earth, and their words to all the world.
Psalm 19,verses 1 through 4, New Living Translation
********
Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you as today we conclude our series that we’ve called “Truth and Proof.” This series is all about helping our listeners think carefully about their faith. The Christian faith is not a belief system that requires its followers to abandon their brains when they surrender their hearts to Jesus. So, for the past several episodes we’ve been focusing on the logic, reason, and evidence that demonstrates that placing your faith in the God of the Bible is not only reasonable – it would actually be unreasonable to do otherwise. And today to help us complete our series we have RD Fierro back in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, the world around us today clamors that we must choose between our Christian faith or science. But that demand is unreasonable isn’t it?
RD: Well, before we get into our discussion for today I’d like to thank all the people who are joining us here today. Like many of our series on Anchored by Truth this “Truth and Proof” series has been intellectually challenging so we know that anyone who has listened to any of the episodes are truly serious about their Christian faith. And to answer your question, yes, it is unreasonable to ask a Christian to choose between faith and science because science actually helps demonstrate the validity of the Christian faith and worldview. And we’re certainly not the first people to point that out. For instance, in 1991 Berkeley law professor Phillip Johnson wrote a book called Darwin on Trial. Johnson’s book was so compelling that the debate about design in nature and a supernatural Designer was forever changed. Johnson wrote “In brief, what makes me a ‘critic of evolution’ is that I distinguish between naturalistic philosophy and empirical science, and oppose the former when it comes cloaked in the authority of the latter.”
VK: So, what Johnson is pointing out is that empirical science does not, and should not be equated with, philosophical naturalism. Philosophical naturalism is basically the idea that the only things that we can know to exist are those of the material universe. As such, philosophical naturalism rejects any claims that anything supernatural, including God, exists. But, as we have pointed out during this series, this anti-supernatural bias flies in the face of logic, reason, and evidence. It is very clear from science that the material universe does not and cannot explain its own existence. Empirical observations reveal that the universe is one giant effect – and effects need causes.
RD: Exactly. But we need to point something out. The logic and reason behind the “science has proved that God doesn’t exist” is just sad but wrong but the marketing of that very bad idea has been brilliant.
VK: I’ve had a few products like that through the years. The commercials were brilliant. The products were – well, let’s just be charitable and say they didn’t live up to the promises.
RD: Same thing is true with the idea that “science disproves God” or its slightly better dressed cousin “faith in God is ok as long as you don’t insist it’s true.” They’re bad ideas, bad logic, and bad science but, as in so many cases, bad products that are marketed effectively will be embraced by many people. And all we have to do is look around us to see that’s what’s happened in the faith vs. science debate. The debate itself is completely unnecessary because reason and science because Christianity is perfectly consistent with real science and the founders of many of the major branches of modern science were devout Christians such as Johann Kepler who articulated the major laws of planetary motion and Robert Boyle who is regarded as the first modern chemist and the founder of modern chemistry. And Carolus Linnaeus who is credited with establishing the modern taxonomic system was also a Biblical creationist.
VK: This false dichotomy that is so popular in modern entertainment and culture is one of the reasons we wanted to do a series on what is often termed “apologetics.” Apologetics does not mean anyone is apologizing for being a Christian. The term comes from a Greek word meaning “to give a defense” and that’s what Christian apologetics does – provides a reasoned defense for the truth of Christianity. And while even ardent Christian apologists will acknowledge that good apologetics may not necessarily change someone’s heart, good apologetics is a form of “pre-evangelism.” Good apologetics will hopefully remove barriers for some people. So, what do you want to cover as we wrap up this “Truth and Proof” series?
RD: I’d like to examine some of the broad – but fallacious - assertions that are often tossed about that, too often, become barriers between people and accepting the truth of Christianity.
VK: Then we should probably start with the assertion you hear so often. “There is no such thing as absolute truth.” How would you respond to someone who says that?
RD: I’d ask them whether their assertion was “absolutely true.” The person who says that there is no such thing as absolute truth is claiming that there is no such thing as absolute truth while wanting you to accept their claim as being absolutely true.
VK: In other words they are making a claim that is self-refuting or self-defeating. The same thing is true for all philosophies or claims that deny the existence of truth. Broadly speaking there are four philosophies that deny the existence of absolute truth: agnosticism, relativism, skepticism, and post-modernism.
RD: But each of them is self-defeating. Each fails its own central premise. For instance the skeptic says we must doubt the existence of absolute truth – but does not doubt the absoluteness of their own position. Said differently, the skeptic is certain about doubt. The relativist tries to say “all truth is relative” but makes their claim as if the claim were absolutely true. All attempts to deny the existence of absolute truth are self-defeating.
VK: How would you respond to the claim that “science has proven that there is no God?”
RD: Well, first I would ask them to go talk to the previous questioner because the statement “science has proven there is no God” is an absolute truth claim. But second, I would ask which discipline within science has demonstrated that God doesn’t exist and then listen for their answer.
VK: Then they might say that the Big Bang Theory has eliminated the need for God to be the Creator of the universe.
RD: They might – but if they did so they have missed the most fundamental implication of the Big Bang.
VK: Which is?
RD: If the Big Bang Theory is true then it necessarily means that the universe had a beginning. Anything that has a beginning – or an end for that matter - cannot be eternal which means another entity must have caused the universe to come into being. And given how big and complex the universe is the cause for the universe would have to be a Being like the God of the Bible – infinite in power, knowledge, and presence.
VK: Then they might say that there are other theories out there that explain how the universe can have existence but still without the need for a God. There are ideas such as a rebounding universe that just goes through endless cycles or the multiverse which postulates an infinite series of universes of which ours is just the one we happen to be in.
RD: Again, it’s certain possible to make those kinds of assertions but the biggest problem that they face is that there absolutely no empirical evidence for either of these theories or any of the others that are proffered. For example, let’s take a quick look at the multiverse idea which is an extension of the notion of string theory. Many people may have heard the term “string theory” but most probably have no idea what it actually means.
VK: According to one article on the Creation Ministries International website “string theory proposes that [particles] may instead exist as one-dimensional loops or ‘strings’ that cut across or exist in nine spatial … dimensions compared to the three spatial … dimensions we understand and use in relativity theory. Some suggest that these strings exist as higher dimensional objects called branes (membrane-like structures) that act like vibrating flat sheets or tubes etc. These ideas can even be extended to support the idea of multi-universes coexisting with our own, and that our own universe (the big bang) was the result of the collision of two of these branes in some higher-dimensional hyperspace. The goal is to get the universe to create itself—that way, no first cause would be needed, hence no God.”
RD: Note the last sentence from the portion you just read. The goal of all these amendments to the Big Bang Theory – again, none of which have any scientific, empirical support – is to avoid the straightforward conclusion that if the universe did come into being because of a “big bang” it means the universe is not eternal and therefore needs a Creator. So, to avoid that conclusion scientists will engage in their own version of myth making – concocting these fascinating alternatives to God’s creative activity that make for great science fiction movies but completely fail in the real world.
VK: And some scientists have been willing to admit that they do so. Harvard evolutionary biologist and geneticist Richard Lewontin wrote: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failures to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
RD: It’s really important to note that the goal of what Lewontin has called “just-so stories” is to keep that Divine Foot out of the door. Lewontin knows that the moment you acknowledge that science not only doesn’t have to exclude God – but in fact points out the need for a creative, Necessary Being – the cat is out of the bag. The point of all this is that even if the currently favored explanation for the origin of the universe, the Big Bang Theory, were true it still doesn’t avoid the conclusion that there is a God. The big bang would mean the universe had a beginning in space and time and that in turn means something or Someone must have caused it. By the way some of this discussion might give the impression that I am somehow “anti-science.” But that’s nonsense. I was trained as an engineer and I have a great appreciation for all benefits that science has conferred on our modern world. But it would be fair to say that just because I trust science that doesn’t mean I will uncritically accept the pronouncements of all who call themselves scientists.
VK: That would be a dangerous bumper sticker. “I trust the science. It’s the scientists I doubt.” Well, someone might say that even if science and some scientists agree that there is a God that that doesn’t mean that God is the God of the Bible. What would you say then?
RD: I’d say I agree. We can know from logic, reason, evidence, and science that God exists – but we can only know a limited amount about his attributes and character from general revelation. To know more we need God’s special revelation and we get that from the Bible. So, to know whether the Bible is the word of God we need to examine its attributes and see whether the claim can be trusted. Here at Anchored by Truth we believe that any book that makes the claim to be the word of God would have to meet two criteria. First, the book would have to be consistent with what we know of the physical universe and the history of the world. Second, the book would have to provide evidence of supernatural origin.
VK: As long time Anchored by Truth listeners know we believe that there are four lines of evidence that demonstrate that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. First, the Bible is historically reliable. Second, the Bible displays a remarkable unity for a book that was composed by over 3 dozen human authors who wrote over a span of 1,500 years. Third, the Bible gives evidence of supernatural origin especially through a large body of fulfilled prophecy. And the 4th line of evidence is that the Bible has resulted in an untold number of lives that have been positively changed by its transcendent message.
RD: Exactly right. For shorthand I call those lines of evidence reliable history, remarkable unity, fulfilled prophecy, and redeemed destinies. And that’s what we focus on continuously. In fact, as far as I know, Anchored by Truth, is the only radio show I know that focuses exclusively on demonstrating the inspiration, inerrancy, and infallibility of scripture.
VK: So, if someone wants to know whether the Bible is historically reliable we could point them to our “Facts in Acts” series or our series on David and Goliath. Some people think that a story about a short, teenage boy killing a 9 foot tall trained soldier must be a fable or myth - but we provide evidence from history and science that show the story is historically reasonable.

RD: And we have Anchored by Truth series on the remarkable unity of scripture such as our series on miracles and “15 critical scriptures.” And we have several series on the large body of fulfilled prophecy that the Bible contains including a series on the book of Daniel, one on the role of the prophets, and an entire show on what may be the most remarkable prophecy in the Bible – Daniel’s so-called 70 weeks prophecy. We also do interview shows from time to time with people whose lives have been changed by the Bible. In some cases the changes have been dramatic. One gentleman we interviewed Armando “Mondy” Flores had his life changed by one specific scripture.
VK: But only after his wife and her family had been praying for him for 19 years.
RD: Yes. A remarkable example of how God used a faithful wife and His word to covert one more sinner. But once Mondy was converted, like Paul, Mondy began testifying to the grace he’d received. He was a senior executive in a Fortune 500 corporation and the day after he received Christ he was in the corporate HQ testifying to his salvation. Just about all of our episodes of Anchored by Truth are available from our website crystalseabooks.com. So, when listeners get the question about how we can be sure that the true God is the God of the Bible that website can be an invaluable resource in helping people to answer the question intelligently.
VK: The irresistible conclusion from the evidence is that the Bible is exactly what it claims itself to be – the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
RD: Right. You know, as we mentioned in one of the episodes in this “Truth and Proof” series, biochemist, atheist, and co-discoverer of DNA, the late Francis Crick, began studying biochemistry in the 1940’s as a way to disprove the existence of God. But, in fact, what Crick discovered was that there was an irreducibly complex information system at the heart of all life. In effect Crick demonstrated the exact opposite of what he intended to. He thought he could show that life didn’t need a creator. What he discovered was that life not only needs a creator – and has one – but also that the Creator has left His fingerprints in every living being. Crick was a phenomenal scientist but he wrong about God. His materialistic presuppositions prevented him from acknowledging the very truth that his own work pointed out. This is such a shame because the ability to derive the truth about God from reason and evidence has eternal consequences. We do Anchored by Truth because we want people to be able to put on the full armor of God to withstand the devil and his worldly allies. And for those who are familiar with Ephesians Chapter 6 they will know that the very first piece of armor Paul mentions is the “belt of truth.” I have heard people say that it is enough to just make sure we know Jesus, but if we don’t know the truth about Jesus and are able to defend it the first person’s faith that is at risk is our own – and close behind it is the faith of our families and friends.
VK: Amen. Today as we close we’re going to do something a little different. We usually like to close with a prayer but today we’re going to give our listeners a peek at one portion of Crystal Seas’ upcoming rhymed piece on Genesis – The Genesis Saga. This portion happens to be the 5th section of The Genesis Saga and it’s entitled The Truth in Genesis. We wanted listeners to hear it because it is a form of apologetics but it is done in rhyme which can make it easier for people to absorb the message. As we’ve been talking throughout this series many studies indicate that as many as 75% of the kids raised in a Christian household will abandon their faith when they leave home. And one of the biggest reason they will do is because they won’t be prepared to respond to the world’s lies that we’ve gone over in this episode. Please don’t let that happen to your kids or grandkids. If you don’t protect them by preparing them who will?
---- THE TRUTH IN GENESIS
VK: Before we close we’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes in this series or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
Psalm 19, verses 1 through 4, New Living Translation
Is 'string' the next big thing? - creation.com
TRUTH IN GENESIS
1. It has been many thousands of years
2. Since the start of creation’s tale.
3. So long ago was light released,
4. Now with legends of origins we’re regaled.

5. Some say that all we can see
6. All we can touch, taste, or feel,
7. Came from nothing and nobody
8. As if such an idea could be real.

9. Some say that the heavens and earth
10. Have always been in existence.
11. They assuredly assert that there is no God
12. And they do so with great persistence.

13. They say that atoms, energy, and space
14. Stretch back into eternity past.
15. They find no place for a Creator who’s good
16. In a cosmos that came from a blast.

17. The laws of physics and chemistry they say
18. Tell us all that we need to know
19. About how bright stars burn in the heavens
20. And provide light throughout the cosmos.

21. But if all that is came from a bang,
22. Where did the bang come from?
23. If no mind or Architect played any part
24. Wouldn’t chaos be all that could come?

25. The universe exhibits order and plan
26. Can design without a Designer spread?
27. And how can living creatures appear and arise
28. From inanimate particles that are dead?

29. The smallest cell holds billions of atoms
30. Organized with exquisite precision.
31. Did all those brilliant molecular machines
32. Come to life with no Mind’s decision?

33. And those who with great vigor contend
34. That dead things gave rise to the living,
35. When faced with those who believe otherwise
36. Often aren’t very forgiving.

37. They tell us we must turn from God
38. And let their explanation of origins speak
39. But it would be easier to trust their claims
40. If from their science, the truth hadn’t leaked.

41. If the universe is protons and electrons
42. And some energy that enables them to link.
43. Then how does this random collection
44. Give them the ability to think?

45. Can random, purposeless matter
46. Give the skill to reason and reflect?
47. Wouldn’t it take an omnipotent Being,
48. Logic with flesh to connect?

49. If they are right, their minds are built
50. Of particles that had no design.
51. So why would any care what their particles dictate,
52. When their particles deny the divine?

53. God created man in His image.
54. Part of that image is free will.
55. If that will’s used to deny the Creator,
56. The serpent’s in the garden still.

57. Man abused Free will and caused the fall
58. As he yielded to foul temptation
59. But God knew all that would come
60. And had prepared for man’s reclamation.

61. In the courts of heaven the Glorious three
62. Had selected a people to save.
63. All men sin and fall short of the goal
64. But there’s no need to lie in the grave.

65. Men and nations, people everywhere
66. The True Son wants your sin to bear
67. He made morning stars, he makes all things new
68. He made all creation, he can surely save you

Episode 186 – A Necessary God
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship. Day after day they continue to speak; night after night they make him known. They speak without a sound or word; their voice is never heard. Yet their message has gone throughout the earth, and their words to all the world.
Psalm 19, verses 1 through 4, New Living Translation
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time poet. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we are going to begin a new series where we focus on the central figure of the entire Bible: Jesus. That seems appropriate as we come to the time of year when we celebrate the Lord’s birth, doesn’t it RD?
RD: Well, Christmas is certainly a time of the year when people begin to more naturally think about Jesus because the reminders of him start to appear more and more around us every day. But, of course, it’s important to remember that we really should focus on Jesus every day of the year. For Christians, Jesus should be the focus of our daily lives. And actually throughout our lives we should be on a quest to get to know God better each day that is granted to us.
VK: I agree with that. So, today we’re going to start listening to a new Crystal Sea story. This time it’s one of our rhymed pieces that you wrote as a Christmas epic poem. This is actually the second installment of a story that you began a long time ago. You said you originally wrote the first installment because you wanted to give it as a gift to some co-workers?
RD: I did. Years ago when I worked in one of those big state agency buildings that are so common here I wanted to give Christmas presents to some of my co-workers but doing that in a state agency can sometimes be tricky. So, I decided that one present I could give was a little entertainment so I wrote a piece that was inspired by some of things that used to entertain the kids of my generation: Christmas poems and the short serial stories you used to see in the movie theaters before the main feature. Each of those film pieces would always leave you hanging so you had to come back every week to see what happened. So, I wrote a Christmas story in six parts and each part left you wondering what would come next.
VK: And then a few years ago you decided that the story needed to continue so you wrote the next installment of what is going to be, when completed, a poetic trilogy. The story began in Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree, Komari’s Quest. The story continued in The Golden Tree, Eagle Enigma. Today, we are beginning the final part of the trilogy. Here is part one of The Golden Tree, The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part I
VK: I really like some of the lines from that part. “Where the lights soared in the vault overhead and proclaimed indescribable glory as if the heavens could not but proclaim their omnipotent Creator's story.” Not only are the lines lyrical but they also evoke such clear imagery. I can imagine kids sitting around their mom and dad …

RD: Or grandmother and grandfather...
VK: Or grandparents and listening to this recording with them - just like families used to sit around and listen to someone read The Night Before Christmas. Of course, that’s one of the reasons we wanted to put this poem out there. To give families an entertaining story that also would allow parents to discuss their faith with their kids.
RD: Exactly. There are so many questionable choices these days that are advertised as being “family friendly” but they are based on a secularist view of the world. We wanted to be sure that there was a story that was available for “fireside” listening that directed everyone’s attention to the real “reason for the season.”
VK: Well, there are a total of seven parts to Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. So, for the next six weeks we’ll be letting the story unfold as we continue to unpack insights into how the Bible is such an integral part of being able to frame a coherent world view. I mean the two fundamental attributes that you believe would have to characterize any book that would constitute a genuine special revelation of God are that that revelation would have to be consistent with the created order as it is observable by creatures within it – essentially us. And that revelation would have to display supernatural origin.
RD: Right. As hard – or as exciting – as it may be to comprehend empirical observations, combined with logic, tell us that the visible universe does not – indeed cannot – provide an explanation for its own existence. The universe, as grand and vast as it is, has all the fingerprints of having a beginning in space and time. Also, the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy, tells us that it will have an ending. Anything that has a limited life span, no matter how long some people might conceive that light span to be, cannot be self-existent. Only a self-existent being or entity can account for its own existence or the existence of anything else. Some philosophers use the terms Necessary Being and Contingent Beings to describe the difference between the two.
VK: And since the universe is not eternal it looks very much like it is contingent on something or someone outside itself to account for its existence – a Necessary Being upon which it is dependent. And we call that Necessary Being God. So just like the bears in our story when we see the northern lights or stars twinkling in a deep night sky we can know that that the starlight - and the night sky and especially our ability to see and understand all that grandeur - points to the need for a Creator. And we’ve seen that the bears we’ve just met aren’t the first bears who have lived in this land. It was actually their ancestors who left their home and shortly we’ll learn they were searching for the lair and throne of their Creator – who they thought of as the Great White Bear.
RD: Yes. I think the symbolism for the story is already pretty plain but I would like to point out one thing - and that’s what I want to spend some time on today – is that the bears who set out on their quest wouldn’t ever have started out if they weren’t convinced that the Great White Bear existed. And that’s one of the problems that we see reflected so clearly in today’s very relativistic culture. Too many - far, far, far too many people today, both inside the church and out, are defeated in their own quests because they have been misled to believe that there is no Creator – no Great White Bear if you will. As a result, they see the world as fundamentally being either chaotic at best or outright meaningless at worst.
VK: I think you need to expand on that thought a bit. You’re saying that God isn’t just a logical necessity to explain the existence of a contingent universe, but that an awareness of God is an essential component of us being able to comprehend our place in that universe?
RD: To quote what I say in some of our humorous Life Lessons with a Laugh - exactamundo.
VK: So you’re quoting yourself. Sounds like something only a writer would do…
RD: Again, exactamundo. Anyway as the eminent theologian RC Sproul used to say, “Ideas have consequences.” The idea that the universe was framed by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and holy God carried with it the inextricable notion that the universe has been created intentionally and for a purpose. As such the universe would display design and order and the intelligent creatures within that universe – us – could perceive that design and order.
VK: And that very concept formed the foundation for what we think of as science today. And that’s why many of the founders of modern science – like Sir Isaac Newton and Louis Pasteur were strong Christians. They were convinced that there was design, order, and logic in universe because the universe had been made by a being that was supremely purposeful and logical. As such, they were encouraged to go and discover that order and use the results of it to improve the lives of the people around them. Or said a little differently they were encouraged to go on their own quests to discover more about the creation and thereby appreciate even more the Creator.
RD: So all that made perfect sense. If the universe had been created by a God of order, logic, and purpose then creation would be comprehensible. Those early giants of science took seriously the Biblical statement that man had been made in the image of God, so they felt sure that God would bless their efforts at applying themselves to understand what he had created. But one of the tragic effects of the success of their work and the amazing results they achieved is that over time – and now we’re talking about centuries not decades – the work of science became divorced from the original source of the inspiration for them to do the work. Scientists – not all, but a great many – became convinced that it was possible to understand creation while ignoring the Creator.
VK: Or said slightly differently, they sought the blessing without regard to the Blesser. So, one of the points you’re making is that somewhere along the journey – the quest – for discovery, a lot of people forgot why the journey was begun in the first place. And that is reflected in our society and culture today.
RD: Yes. And Christmas is a great example of that same phenomenon happening in our calendar and celebration of the common understanding that was the foundation of our communities. The word “Christmas” obviously derives from the words “Christ” and “mass.” And one of the big reasons that gift exchanges became a part of the celebration was in commemoration of the great gift that God had given the world in the birth of Jesus. And, of course, the whole reason that God gave us the gift of Jesus was because after the fall in the garden of Eden God had begun his great plan of redemption. So, in a very real way the history of all of mankind gives evidence of God’s plan unfolding in exactly the way God intended.
VK: And you believe that even some of the more tragic of the things that we see around us provides evidence for the existence of God and the truth of scripture?
RD: Yes. C.S. Lewis noted that one of the things that convinced him to become a Christian was that he couldn’t get over the idea that some things were right and some things were wrong. But then he realized for that idea to make sense – that there’s a difference between right and wrong – he had to have an explanation for where that idea came from. Why did he think that there was a real distinction? Of course, the only logical conclusion was because there was a Being – a God somewhere – who had established the whole moral and ethical scheme to begin with. That’s just as true today as it has ever been.
VK: That’s a pretty remarkable idea when you think about it. The very notion that we have ethical sensibilities to begin with is dependent on there being a real difference between right and wrong. And not just a matter of personal convenience like preferring squash to broccoli. When people begin to assert that something is wrong they don’t just mean that they find it inconvenient. They mean that there is a determinable ethical distinction that compels – or should compel – our behavior. And we all know that. Anyone who doesn’t know that there is a difference between right and wrong we would describe as a sociopath.
RD: And we would have good reason for doing so. Now in saying this we’re not saying that there is universal agreement on the precise details of what’s right or wrong and different societies at different times have arrived at varying conclusions about the specifics. But there’s never been a society that didn’t make some kind of a distinction regardless of what they did with the specifics. In some cultures the distinctions might have been ones that we would consider trivial – like acceptable dress for women and men. In other they would have been more profound or serious – like the relationship between a government and its people or whether private ownership of property is permitted or prohibited. The rules have varied but every culture, tribe, and nation has had rules of some sort.
VK: And pretty much all people everywhere know that they have – at one point or another – violated those rules. Written or unwritten. Government or cultural. Religious or secular. We have an inherent awareness that as moral and ethical agents we have certain obligations that we are subject to. So we see that not only is there a physical order to the physical universe there is also an ethical order that applies to us as people. But without there being a God, a holy and purposive God, we would have no reasonable explanation for the existence either of the obligation or the sense that we need to be accountable the obligation. And that same sense that tells us that we are subject to the obligation tells us that we have all fallen short.
RD: Right. We all know that we’re not perfect, but to know that means we know that somewhere there is a standard against which that determination can meaningfully be made. That’s why Jesus had to come and why the Christian claim that Jesus was perfect, was sinless, is so essential. Again, to refer to Sproul again, RC used to say that if he was in a discussion with someone who just refused to acknowledge the existence of God, one of the final questions he would ask such people is what they did with their guilt.
VK: And we all have guilt. And some of us feel it far more keenly than others. If we don’t have Jesus, if we don’t know Jesus, then we’re the only ones who can shoulder that guilt. But the moment we understand that the Perfect Man, Jesus, has willingly taken our guilt onto his own shoulders, we can start to become free of that guilt. And that’s one of the keys to beginning and completing our own quests through life. As we talked about a long time ago on Anchored by Truth, understanding the Bible provides context and meaning to our lives. Knowing that God himself made a provision for our imperfection removes the need for us to continue to feel guilty forever. Knowing that Jesus is our savior is the truth that sets us free.
RD: And that’s one of the things we really want to focus on as the days unwind toward Christmas. We want to take a close look at how we can be sure that Jesus isn’t a mythological figure, but instead is a real person who was born, walked and lived at a specific place and time, and died. But then he demonstrated that he was God’s atoning gift by walking out of the grave and appearing to a group of women first and then to his disciples. If Jesus wasn’t a real person who did those things we would have absolutely no hope for being justified before a perfectly holy God. A mythological figure, no matter how charming, couldn’t save anyone. But Jesus did and does. So, as we conduct our own quests through life, if we’re pursuing worthwhile ends we can be confident that they aren’t futile. There is a meaning to our individual lives even when those lives are set against the backdrop of an unimaginably grand cosmos. The Bible and Jesus give us that meaning. As Augustine famously said, “Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.”
VK: Sounds like it’s a great time to have a prayer. Since we’re approaching Thanksgiving how about if today we listen to a prayer for that special day when we turn our attention to the goodness that God has shown to us.
---- Prayer for Thanksgiving –
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
Psalm 19, verses 1 through 4, New Living Translation
(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” Augustine, Confessions
https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/media/articles/ourheartisrestlessuntilitrestsinyou/
https://www.proginosko.com/2019/07/reforming-apologetics-common-notions/

Episode 187 – Jesus Beyond the Bible
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel, whose origins are in the distant past, will come from you on my behalf.
Micha, Chapter 5, verse 2, New Living Translation
Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the reign of King Herod.
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 2, verse 1, New Living Translation
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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time barista. He turns on the coffee maker and puts in those little cups. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we are continuing our series where we focus on the earthly birth and life of Jesus. In today’s culture, it seems as though just about everybody has heard about Jesus, but fewer and fewer people actually know much about him. Do you agree with that RD?
RD: Yes. Jesus’ name is certainly well known in modern culture but unfortunately there is as much or more misinformation that circulates about him than there is actual fact. I’m afraid that more people get there information about Jesus more by watching television specials or dramatized movies than they do from reading the Bible or studying the many fine, well-documented books and articles that have been produced by excellent Christian scholars through the years. That’s the bad news. The good news is that for those who are truly interested in knowing the actual, historical Jesus it’s probably easier today than any time in history to get accurate information. But you do have to be careful about the sources you use.
VK: So, today we want to continue to provide the listeners to Anchored by Truth with a head start on doing their own study about Jesus. As you have so often said, Jesus is the centerpiece of both the Bible and the plan of redemption. So, to be confident not only in our own faith but to help those who are still looking for anchors for their own lives it’s imperative we know the real Jesus of the Bible. But before we get too deep into our discussion how about telling us a little about the Christmas poem that we’re going to continue today?
RD: I’d love to. As I mentioned in an earlier episode of Anchored by Truth, years ago when I worked in one of those big state agency buildings that are so common here I wanted to give Christmas presents to some of my co-workers but doing that in a state agency can sometimes be tricky. So, I decided that one present I could give was a little entertainment so I wrote this piece that was inspired by some of things that used to entertain the kids of my generation: Christmas poems and the short serial stories you used to see in the movie theaters before the main feature. Each of those film pieces would always leave you hanging so you had to come back every week to see what happened. So, I wrote a Christmas story in six parts and each part left you wondering what would come next. That story became The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest. It was about a group of koala bears who had gone on a quest to the far north to find their creator that they called The Great While Koala Bear. The bears never found their creator but they did find a golden tree in the artic that made a valley a perfect place for them to live. Well, later on I created a new story that I called The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma and we’ve followed that up now with another Golden Tree story – the Frost Lion. In part one of Frost Lion that we heard on our last episode we’ve learned that there are two young bears confronting a dilemma they believe might threaten their village. From a vantage point at the top of a tall hill near their town they have seen a strange shape out on the distant snow – but they don’t know who or what the shape is.
VK: Alright then. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part two of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 2
VK: The drama is now building. What we’ve heard is that bears have enjoyed the peace and plenty in the valley for generations but now a new bear from a strange land is in their midst – and that bear is very near death. Worse this new bear has a friend who is still lost in the deep winter snow and may already have died. So, the bears are learning - just like in the real world – that there are always unexpected events in this world that may require us to respond. And it may take real courage to confront those events …

RD: And commitment and sacrifice...
VK: And it’s hard to have those virtues if we don’t know why we’ve been sent on our own quests, isn’t it? I mean, God’s grace has saved us just like the Golden Tree saved the bears. But as the Apostle Paul said to the Philippians they had to. “work hard to show the results of [their] salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. For God is working in [them and us], giving [them and us]the desire and the power to do what pleases him.” God’s grace saves us but our sanctification requires effort on our part.
RD: Right. The old song there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus than to “trust and obey.” Part of that obedience is to be able to tell others why we believe that Jesus was qualified to be our savior. And that starts with us being assured that Jesus was a real, historical figure – not a myth or some kind of pious concoction. In our day and age one of the semi-criticisms that’s hurled against the Christian faith is that the Jesus that Christians worship is either a mythological figure or – if he even existed – that we can’t trust the gospel accounts for information about him.
VK: But the truth is that Jesus was a real person. And we see that from passages like the ones we used for our opening scriptures. In these passages we can see that the Bible tells us specific facts about Jesus like where he was born – in Bethlehem – and when – during the reign of a king named Herod. But beyond even what scripture tells us Jesus life is a fact that is even confirmed by sources outside the Bible isn’t it? And that’s what you wanted to focus on today, right – the fact that we have historical sources besides the Bible that confirm Jesus’ historicity and even confirm many of the details contained in the gospels about his life, death, and circumstances?
RD: Right. In some earlier episodes of Anchored by Truth we’ve discussed the fact that you can use the existence of the physical universe and apply logic and reason to come to the conclusion that there is a self-existent being responsible for the creation of the universe and of living creatures. But that line of reasoning can only carry you so far in an understanding of God and it would give us almost no information about other attributes that are essential parts of the Christian faith such as the plan of redemption or Jesus’ role in it. For that, we need a special revelation from that self-existent being – God – and fortunately we have that in the Bible. But we need to be persuaded that that revelation is true and reliable and once again logic, reason, and evidence can play a role in validating the Bible’s claim that it is the inspired Word of God. And that’s where extra biblical sources can be helpful. Such sources don’t add anything to the Bible, but they can add to our individual confidence that the Bible is describing history accurately when it speaks of historical events.
VK: So, today you want to take a brief look at some other historical sources that also confirm that Jesus was a real historical figure. You know when you think about it, it’s remarkable that there would be any other surviving sources outside the Bible who would mention Jesus. In his day and time – if Jesus hadn’t been the Son of God – he would have been just another obscure and unimportant itinerant preacher that had a brief public ministry in a distant Roman province. He never led an army, held a prominent government or political position, or even wrote a book. Plus, his public ministry only lasted about 3 years and he didn’t travel all that widely. His public ministry was all conducted within 100 miles of his home. And he died the death of a common criminal. So, if Jesus wasn’t who he claimed to be – the Son of the Almighty God – he should have faded from the pages of history as just another local crank. But he didn’t. He’s mentioned by some of the most important historians of his age, men who had far more earthly distinction that he did. Where do you want to start?
RD: Let’s start by talking about a few examples of well-known Roman historians who are widely regarded as having written important histories of the Roman Empire and conquests. The examples that we’re going to use today came from an article available on the website coldcasechristianity.com entitled “is there any evidence for Jesus outside the Bible.” We’ll put a link to the article on the notes that accompany the podcast version of this show. But these examples are all widely known and can be found in any number of historical reference sources. So the first example we want to use is a quote from Cornelius Tacitus was well known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116 AD, he describes the Roman Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”
So, in this account, Tacitus confirms that there was a man who lived in Judea, was known as Christ, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and who had followers who called themselves by his name and were persecuted for following him.
VK: Well, this account is helpful because it directly confirms a number of details directly about Jesus. But it’s also important for another reason, isn’t it? A few episodes ago we talked about the fact that Luke and the other gospel writers were meticulous when it came to their historical recording and reporting. So much so that they got some obscure details right, even when other ancient historians got them wrong. So, this quote from Tacitus helps illustrate that point too, doesn’t it.
RD: Very good. That’s pretty impressive. You noticed that Tacitus called Pontius Pilate the procurator of Judea not the prefect.
VK: Thank you. I try.
RD: And you’re absolutely right. As good a historian as Tacitus was he was human and in this case he did make a mistake. He got Pilate’s title wrong. For many years there were questions about the existence and the actual title of Pontius Pilate—the Roman governor who presided over the trial of Jesus. Later Roman writers, as well as almost all Bible reference works, referred to Pilate as the “procurator” of Judea but Luke and the other gospel writers called Pilate a “governor;” not a procurator. The fact that “governor” was the correct title was confirmed in 1961, when a two by three foot stone was discovered that had a Latin inscription. The translation of the inscription reads as follows:
Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, has presented the Tiberieum to the Caesareans.
This find was not only archaeological confirmation for the existence of Pilate but it was also confirmation that Pilate was the Prefect, or governor, of Judea.
VK: In fact, we now know that the title “Procurator” was not used at the time of Jesus’ trial for the Roman governors. This title only came into usage at a later time, during the reign of the emperor Claudius, A.D. 41-54. During Claudius’ reign the title of the Roman governors shifted from Prefect to Procurator. So although Tacitus was correct about the title in use for the Roman governor of Judea at the time he wrote – about 60 years later - strictly speaking that was not Pilate’s actual title when he supervised the trial and execution of Jesus. Pilate was a prefect, a governor, not a procurator – a fact the Bible writers got right. So, who’s next on the list of extra-Biblical writers?
RD: Well, before we close for today we should probably take a quick look at one of the most famous of the ancient historians, Josephus, because he lived so close to the time of Jesus and during the period of early church’s formation. Josephus lived from 37 AD to 101 AD. The most widely accepted year for the crucifixion is 33 AD so he was born just four years after the crucifixion. He wrote an extensive history of the Jews in 93 AD called “the Antiquities of the Jews.” So today when you see people referring to it you often just hear people call it “Antiquities.” Josephus wrote about Jesus in more detail than any other non-biblical historian and Josephus himself was a really interesting character. He was a consultant for Jewish rabbis and became a Galilean military commander by the age of sixteen. He was an eyewitness to much of what he recorded in the first century A.D. As a Jewish military leader he initially fought against the Romans but later surrendered and he eventually became an adviser to the Roman emperor Vespasian. Under Vespasian, Josephus was allowed to write a history of the Jews. This history includes three passages about Christians, one in which he describes the death of John the Baptist, one in which he mentions the execution of James (and describes him as the brother of Jesus the Christ), and a final passage which describes Jesus as a wise man and the messiah. There is some legitimate controversy about the writing of Josephus, because of the timing of the discovery of his writing but why don’t you read a conservative scholarly reconstruction of one of Josephus’ most famous passages.
VK: “Now around this time lived Jesus, a wise man. For he was a worker of amazing deeds and was a teacher of people who gladly accept the truth. He won over both many Jews and many Greeks. Pilate, when he heard him accused by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, (but) those who had first loved him did not cease (doing so). To this day the tribe of Christians named after him has not disappeared.”
RD: Now there are some other ancient versions of Josephus’ writing which are even more explicit about the nature of Jesus’ miracles, life and his status as the Christ, but from even this conservative version we can conclude: Jesus lived in Palestine, was a wise man and a teacher, worked amazing deeds, was accused by the Jews, crucified under Pilate and had followers called Christians. Josephus’ observations are particularly compelling because at the time he wrote he was very close in terms of timing to when Jesus lived. Even though he wasn’t like the apostles who actually walked with Jesus he could see around him the effect of the early church’s spreading and he may even have had the opportunity to talk to Jews who had been in and around Judea when Jesus had his public ministry.
VK: Well, those two examples are a good introduction to the fact that Jesus’ earthly life has confirmation outside the Bible. Next time we can take up a few more examples but before we close for today a few general observations would seem to be in order. And you said that the early church itself is a confirmation that Jesus was a real, historical figure?
RD: Exactly.
VK: I’m surprised you didn’t say what you do in some of the Life Lessons with a Laugh - exactamundo …
RD: Ok. Exactamundo. Anyway, there is no dispute that in the first century AD Christians and the Christian church began to be an issue within the Roman Empire. They were so widely known that the emperor Nero blamed the great fire of Rome on them. Well, it would be impossible to explain the spread of a movement if there wasn’t something or someone who started the movement. Remember that the Romans weren’t known for being timid administrators of their provincial empire and in the first century AD they certainly weren’t friendly to Christians. So, something remarkable must have happened in the early part of the first century AD in Judea that animated so many people to continue carrying the same message throughout the empire despite the official opposition they encountered everywhere. There are two simple reasons for this phenomena. First, they were persuaded something truly remarkable had happened. A dead man had risen from the grave and walked around for 40 days. And second, they had a source of support and strength – the Holy Spirit – who sustained them as they carried their message to a world that needed it but didn’t want it.
VK: Well, all that makes perfect sense. As Paul said to the Romans the same power that raised Jesus from the dead also empowers us and gives us the ability to carry on in his name. Sounds like a perfect time to go to prayer. Since we’re approaching Thanksgiving how about if today we listen to a prayer for that special day when we turn our attention to the goodness that God has shown to us.
---- Prayer for Thanksgiving –
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
Micha, Chapter 5, verse 2, New Living Translation
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 2, verse 1, New Living Translation

(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/
https://alwaysbeready.com/extrabiblical-historical-sources-corroborate-the-bible/
https://crossexamined.org/why-should-we-trust-the-extra-biblical-references-to-jesus/

Episode 188 – Jesus Beyond the Bible Part 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Now it came to pass in those days, there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment made when Quirinius was governor of Syria. ... And Joseph also … to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David; to enroll himself with Mary, who was betrothed to him, being great with child. …while they were there… she [gave birth].”
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 2, verses 1 through 6, English Revised Version

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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time health consultant. He buys the cough drops we keep in the studio for people to use during recording. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we want to continue our series where we focus on the earthly life and ministry of Jesus. And we want to continue listening to Crystal Sea’s epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. Today we’re coming to part three of the poem where the action starts to get a little more intense. Is that a fair statement, RD?
RD: I think so. For any listeners who weren’t able to be with us for our last couple of episodes we should tell them that The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is a poem that is written in the style of some classic Christmas stories. It was also written using the model of the old-time movie serials that they used to play when I was a kid and you went to the theater on Saturday afternoons. Before the movie they’d give you the latest installment of an ongoing saga. Each episode would end with the heroes and heroines left in a precarious position so next week you’d come back and plunk down another quarter or two. So, to get ready for part three listeners need to know that the epic is all about a group of small koala bears who live in a valley in the artic. A group of the bear’s ancestors settled in the valley because in the center of the valley is a golden tree that transforms the valley into a place where they can live and thrive. They’ve been there for several generations but in the current Christmas season an unexpected challenge has come to their valley, the tree, and their lives. Two of the town’s teenage bears, Koest and Kopaul had gone to a hill to look at the northern lights. While on the hill they saw a new, strange bear staggering through the snow. At first they weren’t sure if this new bear posed a danger but since the new bear was so close to death they brought him back to Koest’s home where Koest’s mother, Koray, began attending to the bear. But they still don’t know anything about the new bear. Where did he come from and why is he here? And what does he want?
VK: Alright then. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part three of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – part three.
---- The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma – Part 3
VK: Ok. As the old timers …

RD: Like me...
VK: Right… used to say, “the plot commences to thicken.” The bears who live near the Golden Tree have found out that they have distant relatives who don’t know about the Golden Tree or even the Great White Bear. But a couple who still did believe in the Great White Bear decided to attempt the quest that others had tried long ago. But now their quest is in danger because one of them has almost died and the other one is lost in a vast arctic wilderness – a wasteland for anyone who’s not near the tree.
RD: Right. And sometimes those of us who live in today’s post-modern culture can feel that way – that we are living in a wilderness that has lost sight of our true Creator. That’s why it’s such a good idea for mature believers to listen to or read stories to the kids or grandkids because they can introduce those kids or grandkids to the real struggles that life contains and help prepare to them to be overcomers. And of course the best strategy for being an overcomer is to be so familiar with the truth that lies and deception become immediately identifiable.
VK: And of course that’s why we do Anchored by Truth – to remind people that the Bible, in the words of Psalm 46, is a “very present help in time of trouble.” But people aren’t likely to turn to the Bible to help them in times of trouble if they aren’t confident that the Bible is reliable and trustworthy. So that’s why we focus on using evidence and logic to demonstrate that we have very good reasons for believing that the Bible is the very Word of God.
RD: Yes. Everybody, at some point in their life, is going to ask the question, “Why am I here?” It’s one of the most obvious questions that arise from the human experience. But, whether most people realize it or not, the answer to the question, “why am I here,” is inexorably tied to three other questions. Is there a God? If there is a God, does He communicate with people – or said slightly differently, “Is the Bible the Word of God.” And, if there is a God and the Bible is His word, can I learn about my life, my needs, and my purpose by studying the Bible? Of course at Anchored by Truth we think that the answer to all three questions is a resounding “yes.” But we would just as quickly admit that, unless people are convinced that the Bible is more than just an aggregated collection of fairy tales and myths, they are unlikely to find the Bible relevant to their lives.
VK: I notice that you said “study the Bible” not just “read the Bible.” What you’re observing is that understanding the Bible, confidently and contextually, demands effort. Right? I mean that sort of runs against the old method of letting the Bible fall open and then reading the first verse that comes to your attention.
RD: Well, I wouldn’t try to restrict the Lord’s ability to communicate to any particular person any way He chooses. But randomly or haphazardly reading selected portions of the Bible isn’t likely to help people answer the question, “Why am I here?” I am fully persuaded that the Lord will reveal Himself to anyone and everyone who seeks to truly know Him. But our relationship with the Lord – who is after all first and foremost a person – is just like our relationship with others in our lives. The quality of our relationship will be dependent on the quality and quantity of time we spend with the Lord. And because the Bible was written in a different time and era we need to do some study on the times, customs, and cultures that form its setting. And, unfortunately, because so much misinformation circulates in our own culture today about what the Bible is or isn’t, contemporary Christians need to arm themselves by being able to respond to certain common errors.
VK: Such as the erroneous assertion that Jesus wasn’t a real person. That he didn’t live a real life, eat, walk, and sleep like normal human beings. And that, despite being fully human, he didn’t also demonstrate that he was fully divine by rising out of a stone tomb after being killed by the most powerful empire on the earth at the time. So, that takes us back to our review of some examples that Jesus’ earthly existence is confirmed by sources outside the Bible. Last time we took a look at two examples of other ancient historians who mentioned Jesus in their histories: the Roman historian Tacitus and the Jewish historian Josephus. Both are considered reliable historians. Both wrote their histories within a relatively short period after Jesus’ earthly life. And both wrote accounts that confirmed some of the details in scripture. Where do you want to start today?
RD: Well, let’s take a look at another Roman historian, Suetonius. Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):
“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he [Claudius] expelled them from the city [Rome].” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)
This expulsion took place in 49AD. In another work, Suetonius wrote about the fire which destroyed Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians for this fire and he punished Christians severely as a result:
“Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.” (Lives of the Caesars, 26.2)
So from these quotes we can see that the awareness of Jesus had spread all the way to Rome less than 20 years after Jesus died. The awareness was so strong that the emperor had taken personal notice of Jesus’ followers and apparently felt the need to try to minimize their influence in the capital city.
VK: And again, just to remind everyone of what we mentioned last time the fact that Roman historians and even Roman emperors would take notice of Jesus is remarkable. It wasn’t as if Jesus had led a conquering army that was threatening to lay siege to Rome or even one of his outlying provinces. And Suetonius’ observation that the Christians had a “new and mischievous religious belief” is particularly fascinating. When you think about the pantheon of gods with which the Romans were thoroughly familiar – not only their own gods but also the Greek gods and the gods of all the people they’d conquered – when you think about the vast variety of religious beliefs with which they were acquainted what could be considered “new and mischievous?”
RD: Well, of course, many scholars believe that Suetonius was likely referring to the physical resurrection of Jesus. Obviously, the Romans were well familiar with various beliefs of life after death, but those belief systems never included a person – a flesh and blood man – walking around, talking, eating, and even touching other people after being crucified. That was new and novel.
VK: Still is. I’ve never seen it though I thoroughly believed it happened. Who’s next?
RD: Well, take a look at two sources who wrote about Jesus but for whom we don’t have any copies of their writings: Thallus and Phlegon.
VK: Well, if there are no existing copies of their manuscripts how can we know what they wrote?
RD: Because just like today, there were other writers who did read what they wrote and preserved some of their material by quoting it in documents they were preparing. Just like someone may not have attended a political event, but they can know part of what the speaker said by reading quotes in articles written by people who were there. In Thallus’ case, parts of his histories were preserved by Julius Africanus who wrote around 221 AD. In Phlegon’s case, not only did Julius Africanus record some of his material but so did Origen who was an early church scholar and theologian.
VK: So what observation did Julius Africanus preserve from Thallus’ writings that pertain to Jesus?
RD: Well let me read a quote from Julius Africanus:
“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)
So Thallus had written more than one book of history but in at least one of his books he took note of the darkness and earthquake that accompanied Christ’s crucifixion. This parallels precisely the account that Matthew gave us in Chapter 27 of his Gospel.
VK: And Luke also wrote about the darkness. The Gospel of Luke, chapter 23, verses 44 through 47 say: “And it was now about the sixth hour, and a darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, the sun's light failing: and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said this, he gave up the ghost. And when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly, this was a righteous man.” So, it is very interesting that a secular historian like Thallus would mention the same detail that is present in Matthew and Luke. And if I remember correctly Thallus’ observations are particularly important because many scholars believe he wrote around 52 AD. In fact, he may have been the earliest secular writer to comment on the events surrounding the crucifixion. Well, what about Phlegon?
RD: Well let me read three quotes. This first is one preserved by Julius Africanus and the second two were preserved by Origen:
“Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth to the ninth hour.” (Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)
“And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place … ” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 33)
“Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 59)
So in these quotes we several things of significance. First, Phlegon confirms the darkness mentioned by Matthew, Luke, and Thallus. Second, he confirms that Jesus was crucified and he gives us a specific time reference: during the reign of Tiberius. And third, he confirms the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus including that he showed the marks of his crucifixion to those to whom he appeared.
VK: Well, that’s even more amazing because now we know that the secular historians of the 1st and 2nd century AD were not only aware of Jesus’ life and ministry but they were also familiar with many of the details that surrounded his death and resurrection. But that does raise a question. Since Julius Africanus and Origen were both admitted Christians is it possible that they fabricated the quotes they attributed to Thallus and Phlegon?
RD: It’s not impossible, but why would they have done that?
VK: I think critics would say they would have fabricated the quotes to make their case for the truth of Christianity stronger.
RD: Well, if they had attempted to do that it would actually have had the opposite effect in their day and time. First, remember that even though copies of the writings from Thallus and Phlegon are no longer extant today, they were in existence at the time Julius Africanus and Origen wrote and quoted from them. So if they had fabricated quotes or deliberately misquoted them their fraud or errors would have been easily detectable. Second, Africanus and Origen were writing at a time when there was substantial official opposition to Christianity. In other words they were writing in a hostile world. As such, they would have taken even greater pains to be sure that they wouldn’t be subject to easily refuted assertions. Third, Origen’s quotes of Phlegon came from a work entitled Contra Celsum or in English Against Celsus. So Origen was writing a work to refute the claims of Celsus who wrote a work entitled The True Doctrine. The True Doctrine was likely written under the authority of a Roman emperor was critical of Christianity. Since accuracy was essential to his refutation of Celsus’ book, most scholars agree that Origen is a reliable source for what Phlegon said. Why would Origen have handed his opponent an easy method for dismissing Origen’s criticisms?
VK: That all makes a lot of common sense and it points to a broader implication of the extra-Biblical sources that you’ve been citing. None of the observers themselves, including Thallus or Phlegon, were friendly to Christianity. So theirs were essentially the observations of hostile witnesses. As such, when they confirm details of the Biblical account their testimony of Jesus’ life has even greater weight. If they thought that Jesus was a fraud or a fabrication it would have been very easy for them just to not mention him.
RD: And one more point to note before we close. In these episodes we haven’t been able to cover all the extra-Biblical sources that there are that confirm Jesus’ life, ministry, and death. There’s a book called The Historical Jesus by Dr. Gary Habermas that contains a much more exhaustive treatment of this subject.
VK: And – again – we wanted to point listeners to all these resources, including the links we put on our podcast notes, to enable them to continue their own studies about the life and ministry of Jesus. As we said at the start of this episode, to answer the question “why am I here,” we need to understand why any of us are here. And how we got here. Those questions are directly related to what we think about God and Jesus. So let’s close with prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of the One who leads into a knowledge of truth, the Holy Spirit.
---- Prayer for Adoration of the Holy Spirit
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the English Revised Version)
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 2, verses 1 through 6, English Revised Version
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 23, verses 44 through 47, English Revised Version

(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/
https://alwaysbeready.com/extrabiblical-historical-sources-corroborate-the-bible/
https://crossexamined.org/why-should-we-trust-the-extra-biblical-references-to-jesus/

Episode 189 – Jesus – Man and God
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
“I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.”
The Gospel of John, Chapter 6, verse 35, New Living Translation
“I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you won’t have to walk in darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life.”
The Gospel of John, Chapter 8, verse 12, New Living Translation
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time pastry consultant. He buys the cookies we keep in the kitchen. Though to be fair I’m the one who makes sure we don’t run out of animal crackers. Anyway, today on Anchored by Truth, as we start to celebrate the Christmas season, we want to continue our series where we focus on Jesus. And we want to continue listening to Crystal Sea’s epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. Today we’re coming to part four of the poem where we now hear about the seemingly unsolvable quandary that is confronting our bears. So do you want to tell us where we are in the story, RD?
RD: I’d love to. For any listeners who weren’t able to be with us for our last few episodes we should tell them that The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is a poem that is written in the style of some classic Christmas stories. It’s the third of the Golden Tree series. The first segment is called The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and the second part was called The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma. Both of these earlier parts of the saga were also written using the model of the old-time movie serials that they used to play when I was a kid and you went to the theater on Saturday afternoons. Before the movie they’d give you the latest installment of an ongoing saga. Each episode would end with the heroes and heroines left in a precarious position so next week you’d come back and plunk down another quarter or two. So, to get ready for part four listeners need to know that the epic is all about a group of small koala bears who live in the arctic. Even though they are in the arctic they live near a Golden Tree that creates a peaceful and fertile valley. The bears’ ancestors discovered the Golden Tree after they had left their homes down under and went searching for their Creator that they called the Great White Koala Bear. The bears have lived near the Golden Tree for generations. In all that time they had never met another bear from the land their ancestors left – but that has now changed. A new, strange bear named Roleb was rescued by a pair of young bears, Koest and Kopaul, and brought to Koest’s home. Once there, Roleb told the bears he had friend who was traveling with him but that friend is now lost in the arctic wasteland. Two of village elders, Kodan and Kojon are trying to figure out if there is a way to save Roleb’s lost friend before it is too late … which it might already be.
VK: Alright then. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part four of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree, The Frost Lion – part four.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 4
VK: Wow. So, the bears figured out how to summon an ice eagle … but can this ice eagle help them? Will this ice eagle help them? It doesn’t seem like this ice eagle is all that friendly at this point.

RD: I guess folks will just have to tune in next week and see what happens...
VK: I’m starting to see why the movies played those serial episodes before they played the main feature.
RD: Well, as a kid the trick was not to not eat all your popcorn during the serial. Otherwise, you didn’t have any left to enjoy during the feature. It helped if you had enough money to buy a large bag. No buckets in those days.
VK: Today I think some of us need to worry about waistlines more than money…
RD: No comment.
VK: Anyway, maybe one of the lessons we can learn from the bears is that we need to understand that challenges to our faith can come to us at any time. We need to be prepared to intelligently respond to them. And Ephesians 6:17 does tell us that the sword of the Spirit is the Bible, the Word of God. That’s one of the big reasons we try to encourage people to develop the habit of staying in the Word. It’s the best way for us to cope with our own ice eagles. So, where do you want to go today as we resume our study of Jesus’ earthly life?
RD: Well, in our last couple of episode on Anchored by Truth we talked about some examples of extra-Biblical sources that confirm that Jesus was a real person who lived and died in Judea during the early part of the first century AD. But, naturally, the only thing that the secular writers could write about was the human dimension of Jesus. If secular writers were our only source about the life of Jesus we could know some important details about him, but we would completely miss the most important fact about Jesus: that Jesus was not only fully human but that he was also fully divine.
VK: And here is where a lot of headaches begin. How can one person be both God and man? I think it’s safe to say that many Christians – even serious and devout ones – have trouble with that concept. So, let’s go over some of the basics of historical, orthodox Christian theology – the Trinitarian nature of God and the dual nature of Jesus. A lot of confusion arises because people don’t understand what Christians mean when they refer to the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. So, let’s start there.
RD: Well, let’s acknowledge right at the start the limitations of human language and the incomprehensibility of God. Humans are finite. God is infinite. So, there is no way any human or group of humans is every going to be capable of exhaustively understanding or explaining the nature of the God or the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. That doesn’t mean we can’t know some true things about God and develop an awareness of the miracle of the incarnation, but it does mean that mysteries will always remain. But that the fact that mysteries will always remain doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t apply ourselves to develop a full-orbed understanding of God insofar as we are able.
VK: And it also means that we should always approach these subjects in a spirit of reverence and prayer, right? I mean the one Person who can help us grow in our understanding is the very Person we’re seeking to understand. So, what does the doctrine of the Trinity refer to?
RD: Orthodox, Christian theology believes that the Bible refers to one God, but acknowledges that God exists eternally as three divine Subsistences or Persons. The classic proof text for the Trinitarian view of the Godhead is Matthew 28:18 & 19 which says:
“Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
A slightly different way of explaining this is that God is singular in nature but three in person. By contrast, Jesus, the 2nd Person of the Trinity, is singular in person but has two natures. Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. And the classic formulation of this that came out of the Council of Chalcedon is :
” Jesus Christ is truly God and truly man, having two natures inseparably united in one divine person without confusion, mixture, separation, or division. Each nature retains its own attributes.”
VK: So, those views explain why Christians still believe in one God – we’re monotheistic – but we also believe that within the Godhead there are three distinct Persons who have a relationship with each other. Grappling with these concepts is challenging to say the least.
RD: And that’s the reason we have to always be willing to acknowledge that even though the church has classic formulations like the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds that help amplify the basics, these doctrines will always contain a certain amount of mystery for men. We’re back to the plain fact that finite man cannot fully understand or explain an infinite, Triune God.
VK: So, how do our opening scriptures relate to this who discussion? At least on the surface, while Jesus is certainly providing some really comforting assurances to his disciples – such as that he will provide for them and protect them like a shepherd does his sheep – how do these verses demonstrate that Jesus was claiming to be God?
RD: In English, the claim is not as obvious as it was in the language in which John originally recorded his Gospel, Greek. You see the Greek words that are translated as “I am,” in “I am the bread of life,” and in the other scriptures we heard are two Greek words: ego and eimi. And these are exactly the same words that God used when He made declarations about himself in the Old Testament.
VK: As in the declaration that God made to Moses when Moses was standing before the burning bush recorded in Exodus 3:14? Let me read that part.
But Moses protested, “If I go to the people of Israel and tell them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ they will ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what should I tell them?” God replied to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you.” God also said that Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.”
RD: Exactly. The Septuagint translators when they translated the Hebrew “Yahweh” which came from the word for “I am” translated it by a combination of two different Greek words used for the verb “to be:” ego and eimi. So in Jesus’ time the phrase ego eimi came to be synonymous with the name for God. In Hebrew, Yahweh. In Greek, Jehovah. So, when the Apostle John recorded what Jesus said about Jesus being the bread of life or the light of the world, John used the phrase “ego eimi” for the words “I am.” Many scholars think that when Jesus identified himself with the “I am,” He was directly proclaiming to his followers that he was the same as the one who appeared to be Moses. But there are other references in the Old Testament to which Jesus may have been pointing to make the same point. Michael J. Krueger, who is a New Testament scholar and President of the Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, has shown that there are number of “I am” references in chapters 40 – 55 of the book of Isaiah that unmistakably point to God. Let’s listen to a couple of examples, Isaiah 41: 4 and 43:10:
Isaiah 41:4 Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he (ego eimi).
Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he (ego eimi). Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
The “I am he” in these passages is translated in Greek by ego eimi.
VK: So, when Jesus said he was the bread of life or the light of the world he was going beyond simply giving metaphors for the provisions that he was making for his people? He was saying that one of the reasons his followers could have confidence in the promises that he was giving was because he was God. And as God whatever he promised he had the irresistible power to fulfill. I’m starting to get another headache when I think about that. Imagine, listening to someone standing before you who was saying “I am the light of the world,” - meaning he would give you all the light and wisdom you would ever need – and then realizing that the one making the promise was the who made light to begin with. That’s a staggering thought.
RD: And it gets even more staggering. Remember that on Anchored by Truth we have often talked about the fact that logic and empirical observations demonstrate that the universe was created by a self-existent Being. We call that Being God. We can arrive at the need for a self-existent Being to explain the existence of the universe and everything in it, just by making some informed observations. In other words, as people we have the ability to deduce the existence of a self-existent Being or God just by exercising our reason and intelligence. Well, when God said to Moses that his name, God’s name, was “I am” he was identifying himself by using the attribute of self-existence. God was simultaneously exalting Moses by saying “you’re standing in the presence of the One who made everything,” and God was condescending to the level of man by communicating to Moses in a way Moses could understand. God was also pointing out that Moses should be aware of His existence because Moses own intellect and intelligence would have revealed the need for God even God had never chosen to communicate with him directly.
VK: And the same thing would have been true of the people listening to Jesus, wouldn’t it? Only now, rather than the people listening to a voice out of a burning bush, they’re hearing those words from a man standing in front of them. And many, if not most, of them would have seen Jesus perform miracles so they would have known that when Jesus spoke, he was speaking the truth. But I think you have one more point that you’re making with the line of reasoning aren’t you?
RD: Exacatamundo…
VK: Exactamundo, again ...
RD: Ok. Precisely, if you prefer. Think about it. By making empirical observations and exercising a little logic and reason we can arrive at the conclusion that the universe was created by a self-existent Being – God. But where did we derive the ability to make those observations? Where did we get eyesight that could see the sun and stars? Where did we get the intellect and reasoning ability to design instruments that could amplify our own observational capabilities like telescopes or microscopes? Where did we get the reasoning ability to understand that an effect demands a cause and that the law of non-contradiction is an essential element in reasoning correctly? Where did we get the ability to write and use language and make and retain records so we could pass words and observations down over thousands of years? And not just the records of the Bible but the other records that we examined on Anchored by Truth the last couple of times by secular observers who affirmed that Jesus was a real man who lived in Judea at a particular time in history.
VK: So the point you’re making is that the same God who designed and created the universe with all its marvelous complexity and order also created us in such a way that we could perceive Him. And you’re saying that that same God came to various men at different points in history – to Moses and Isaiah in the Old Testament, to Matthew, John and others in the New Testament – to leave us a record of His appearances in this world. So, you’re saying that God designed man so that man could recognize not only the design in nature but also the design in God’s plan for human history. The plan that we call the plan of creation, fall, and redemption. Oh, all that is either super scary or super exciting.
RD: Rather like the disciples in the boat when Jesus calmed the storm or Moses when he was in front of the burning bush, an immediate confrontation with the undeniable presence of the Almighty is simultaneously terrifying and thrilling. Unfortunately, today too many people deny themselves that experience of reverential awe that comes from truly grappling with the authentic nature of God.
VK: And only the Bible gives us what we need to understand that nature. And we all need to have a better understanding of that nature. Because when we gain it we will find out that God is not only an awesome and mighty God but He is also a loving and merciful God who has made provisions for us to have eternal fellowship with him by placing our faith in Jesus as our Savior. So let’s close with prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for the first person of the Trinity, our heavenly Father.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION OF THE FATHER
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the English Revised Version)
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 2, verses 1 through 6, English Revised Version
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 23, verses 44 through 47, English Revised Version

(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
https://www.ligonier.org/about/who-we-are/what-we-believe/
https://www.michaeljkruger.com/why-does-jesus-use-the-phrase-i-am/
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/10-things-yahweh-means

Episode 190 – Jesus’ Attributes Were Not “Borrowed”
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
“Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying.”
The Gospel of John, Chapter 11, verse 25, New Living Translation
“Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.”
The Gospel of John, Chapter 14, verse 6, New Living Translation
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time event planning consultant. He rearranges the chairs in the conference room when we have meetings. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we want to continue our series where we focus on the life and ministry of Jesus. And we want to continue listening to Crystal Sea’s epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. Frost Lion is the third part of the Golden Tree trilogy. The first installment of the Golden Tree saga was The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and copies of it are available from our website which is crystalseabooks.com. Even though we’re playing Frost Lion on our broadcasts and podcasts it has not yet been released for people to get their own copy but that will happen in the near future. Today we’re coming to part five out of seven of the poem. So, we’re getting close to bringing it home, right RD?
RD: We are indeed. For any listeners who weren’t able to be with us for our last couple of episodes we should tell them that The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is a poem that is written in the style of some classic Christmas stories. It was written in seven parts and each part ends in a sort of cliffhanger. So, now that we’re at part five we’re pretty deep into the story. But just as a quick refresher The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is about a group of small koala bears who live in the Artic in valley that’s green and warm because in the middle of the valley is a Golden Tree that keeps the valley warm and fertile. They’ve been there for several generations but just as Christmas season is approaching two teenage bears, Koest and Kopaul, were on a high hill near their town when the spotted a dark shape crossing the snow and ice. The strange shape turned out to be a bear named Roleb. Roleb came from the village their ancestors had left many generations ago and had travelled with a friend who got lost. Roleb and his friend were travelling to the arctic to search for help for their village which had lost its faith. Thanks to the wisdom of the village elders, Kodan and Kojon, the bears have been able to summon an ice eagle. But what can this ice eagle do? What will this ice eagle do … if anything?
VK: Sounds like we’re getting to the good part. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part five of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree, The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 5
VK: Ok. So, the bears from the village have now found Roleb’s lost friend. But it’s too late. Roleb’s friend has died from the cold. So, it seems as if Roleb’s whole journey to the north has been for nothing. That seems very sad – if that was how the story ended. But, of course, it hasn’t ended yet. So, maybe all hope isn’t lost. And, knowing you, the answer to finding out whether anything can be done for Roleb and his friend is …to tune in next time.

RD: That sounds like a brilliant suggestion. And maybe listeners could gather some family members to join them ...
VK: Sounds even better. Listening to Golden Tree as a family could be a great way for parents or grandparents to connect with their kids and help them develop their faith. It would also make a great centerpiece for a home school study group or church youth group discussion about the role that courage and commitment play in the Christian faith – something that’s particularly relevant as we get closer and closer to Christmas.
RD: Right. Somebody once said that the Christian faith is so simple that even children can comprehend enough about it to understand the plan of salvation. But even though we can begin with the faith of a child we should pursue the goal of developing a truly mature faith. God will meet us and help us wherever we are in our faith journey but He isn’t satisfied with leaving us at the starting line. Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus doesn’t just initiate our faith. He also wants to perfect it. And part of perfecting our faith is ensuring that we understand what the Bible tells us about Jesus.
VK: Well, so far we’ve seen that there are extra-Biblical sources that confirm that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived and died in Judea during the time period described by the Bible. But we’ve also seen that as helpful as it is to know that there are secular sources that confirm Jesus’ life that those sources aren’t enough to tell us everything that we need to know about Jesus. We can only get a complete revelation about Jesus from God’s special revelation to people, the Bible. And as we saw in our last episode, and again in today’s scriptures, Jesus’ statements about himself tell us something pretty important: that Jesus is not only fully human but also fully divine.
RD: Yes. And so that takes us to the next subject that we need to talk about as we are focusing on the life of Jesus in preparation for celebrating his birth at Christmas.
VK: And that is...
RD: And that is - that because Jesus is the central figure not just of Christianity, but also the entire Bible, one of the criticisms that’s sometimes directed toward Jesus is that the attributes that the Bible assigns to Jesus were borrowed from other cultures or religious sources. So, Christians need to be familiar with some of the assertions that Jesus’ deeds, especially his miracles, were simply drawn from other religious myths or pagan characters.
VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about?
RD: Sure. It is has been alleged that Jesus’ miraculous conception isn’t a unique belief. For instance, critics will say that the mythological figure, Hercules, was also supposed to be the son of a divine father – in this case Zeus - and a mortal mother.
VK: But, of course, there are significant differences between Hercules purported conception and Jesus. In the Greek legend Hercules mother was named Alcmene (ALK-MEN-EE). Zeus was supposed to have taken on the human form of Alcmene’s husband and deceived Alcmene and slept with her. And that’s how Hercules was conceived. That’s not nearly the same thing as Jesus being born of Mary while Mary was literally still a virgin.
RD: The differences are even more pronounced. Hercules was actually the Roman name of a hero the Romans adapted from the Greek Heracles. According to the Greek legend, Heracles’ mother Alcmene was simultaneously pregnant with Heracles by Zeus and his half-brother Iphicles by her husband. And that’s only the beginning of the legendary aspects in Alcmene’s pregnancy with Heracles. So, as soon as you get beyond the superficial similarity and look at the details, the notion that Jesus’ conception was somehow an adaptation of the Heracles/Hercules myth falls apart. But this is a good example of one kind of obviously fallacious attack that’s directed against the historicity of Jesus.
VK: So, what you’re saying is that one form of attack that’s leveled at Jesus has to do with a particular attribute of Jesus and then trying to find a parallel somewhere else in a different religion that is obviously false. The critics then try to discredit the life of Jesus by saying that if story A is false, then story B must be false also.
RD: Right. But that makes as much sense as saying that if there are two $5 bills on the table and one is counterfeit, the other one must be also which is just silly. So, sometimes the supposed pagan origin of the details of Jesus earthly life and ministry are concerned with specific attributes of Jesus, such as his virgin birth. But sometimes the copycat thesis is less concerned with the specifics of Jesus life and more concerned with generalities that might be associated just about any supernatural figure.
VK: Again, do you have any specific examples in mind?
RD: For instance, since sickness and disease are obviously a plague on human existence...
VK: No pun intended…
RD: No pun intended… anyway, the ability to bring miraculous healing would be expected to be a staple of myths or legends. And it is. For example, Asclepius or Asklepios was a Greek demi-god who was the god of medicine. He was supposed to have raised Hippolytus from the dead, though he was killed by Zeus for doing so. Asclepius was supposed to be the son of the god Apollo and a human mother. Buddha was also supposed to have been able to cure the sick.
VK: But again, these kinds of general miracle workings of mythological characters vary considerably from the information we have about the miracles that Jesus performed. For instance, in the case of Jesus curing Peter’s mother we have precise details of the location where the miracle was done, the people involved, and even a pretty close approximation to the timing. And many of Jesus’ healings involved specific details that conform to the religious and cultural conventions known to exist. Such as when he healed the lepers and then told them to go show themselves to a priest which was required by Jewish law. And Jesus’ healing miracles weren’t always the cause for celebration the way you would expect of a miracle like when Jesus restored the eyesight of the man born blind. The blind man was rejected by the religious leaders and cast out by them.
RD: Exactly. The descriptions of Jesus’ miracles read like historical accounts because they are. Again, the key to drawing distinctions between Jesus’ miracles and those general sorts of miraculous powers that are associated with the pagan sources is in the details. The Bible accounts provide the details and in the majority of cases there are multiple eyewitness accounts. But the case of Buddha provides another way of refuting the claims that the Bible’s descriptions of Jesus are drawn from other sources. The earliest known account of Buddha’s life was written in the 2nd century AD so it came after Jesus and not before it. That’s also true for another supposed religious figure who supposedly served as the source for many of the details of Christ’s life, Mithra. In Mithra’s manifestation during the Roman period he was supposed to have been born on December 25th, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, had a final meal before he died, and rose from the grave after 3 days.
VK: And since Mithra was a religious figure that was known to come from the Persian culture, modern day Iran, supposedly he was the inspiration for much of what the disciples taught about Jesus. Right?
RD: Right. The earliest mention of Mithra is around 1400 BC so as a religious figure Mithra would pre-date Christ by a considerable time period. But the problem is that the attributes of the Iranian version of Mithra do not correspond to the Roman version. The Roman version of Mithra is best known for slaying a bull whereas there is no known connection to bull slaying in the Iranian version. And a lot of the supposed correspondences between Christ and Mithra appear in the Roman version and the dating of the correspondences is after Christ.
VK: So, many scholars believe there might have been some cross pollination between Christ and the Roman version of Mithra but given the timing of the appearance of the similarities it’s far more likely that the legends of Mithra borrowed from Christianity and not vice versa.
RD: And that would have been fair because there was one way that Christianity did borrow from Mithraism, in art. In the early part of the 3rd century AD (313), the Roman emperor Constantine issued the edict of Milan which accepted Christianity. Before then the Roman emperors had generally been very hostile to Christians. Within 10 years Christianity had become the official religion of the empire. But by then Mithraism seems to have also gained a strong foothold within the empire as well. In the third and fourth centuries, the Roman church officials seemed to have embarked on an effort to prove that their faith was the superior one, embarked on an advertising campaign. One commentator said their efforts were “reminiscent of our soft drink wars. Mithra was depicted slaying the bull while riding its back; the church did a lookalike scene with Samson killing a lion. Mithra sent arrows into a rock to bring forth water; the church changed that into Moses getting water from the rock at Horeb.”
VK: That sounds suspiciously like the law of unintended consequences. The church officials in the 3rd and 4th century went on a campaign to prove that Christianity was superior to Mithraism and 1,600 years later the church now has to defend itself against the claim that Jesus’ life and ministry were the copycat version.
RD: I think that’s an excellent observation. And let’s close out with one more, quick example. In Hinduism Krishna was also supposed to have had a miraculous conception so some critics point to that legend as a possible inspiration for the Christian tenant.
VK: But in that case, Krishna’s ‘miraculous conception’ is his mom being impregnated by ‘mental transmission’ from his completely human father. Again, not remotely similar to the Bible’s description of how Mary became pregnant.
RD: And to add to that – how credible is it that the first Christians, who were largely Jews from Palestine, would have borrowed a legend from a thousand miles away. At a minimum the Jews were fiercely monotheistic whereas Hinduism is distinctly polytheistic. So, this again points to the need to not only examine the varying details of alleged instances of borrowing but also consider the cultural factors that would have been in play. Often either chronological or cultural factors alone will be enough to refute the alleged possibilities. To go back to our earlier example with the money, when new bank tellers are being taught to spot counterfeit dollars they aren’t given lots of counterfeits to study. They’re given lots of real bills to feel and handle. The idea is that if the tellers get so used to touching and handling the real thing, the fakes will become instantly recognizable. That same approach will work when it comes to being able to answer many of the criticisms that are addressed at Christianity and Jesus.
VK: And that’s a good lesson for all of us. The more time we spend studying scripture – and developing familiarity with the details of the people, the nations, the geography, the culture – not only will we be able to be confident in our own faith. But we will also be able to point other people to the truth.
RD: Precisely. Myths and legends read like myths and legends. They have fantastic details that have little or no correspondence to things in the real world. Good common sense enables us to quickly see elements that don’t make sense in our experience. By contrast, the history contained in the Bible reads like good histories that we see elsewhere. There are specifics about people, places, times, and events and quite often either archeological finds or extra-Biblical records will provide information that helps confirm the Biblical record.
VK: Sounds like a great time for a prayer. Today since we’re so close to Christmas let’s listen to a prayer about that special day.
---- Prayer for Christmas
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
The Gospel of John, Chapter 11, verse 25, New Living Translation
The Gospel of John, Chapter 14, verse 6, New Living Translation
The Gospel of John, Chapter 15, verse 5, New Living Translation
(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
https://creation.com/pagan-copycat-thesis-refuted
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/pagint.php
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.php

Episode 191 – Jesus’ Birth – The Dividing Line of History
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 2, verses 1 and 2, New International Version
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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time event librarian. He straightens up the books on the book shelves when one falls over. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to begin finishing up our current series where we have focused on the life and historicity of Jesus. And we’re going to hear the next-to-last installment of our seven part, epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. When we left off last time a group of small koala bears that lives in a valley in the arctic north was trying to save the life of a bear who had gotten lost. This bear had journeyed to the arctic not knowing that a group of koalas already lived in the far north near a Golden Tree that had saved a group of their ancestors. To find the lost southern bear the village bears had enlisted the aid of a great ice eagle. Unfortunately, by the time the village bears found the lost bear the southern bear had died? So, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be a happy Christmas for the Golden Tree villagers, does it RD?
RD: No. It does not. As our last installment of The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion ended two of the villages’ teenage bears, Koest and Kopaul, had flown with Gabriel, the great ice eagle. They had gone looking for the bear because earlier in the story Koest and Kopaul had saved the life of Roleb, another bear from the south. Roleb and his friend had made the journey to the north because their own village was in desperate trouble. Their fellow villagers in the south were in danger of losing their faith in their Creator, the Great White Bear. These southern bears knew that many generations ago a group of bears had travelled north but their legends had said that ancestral group had died. The southern bears had no idea the first group that travelled to the north – while they didn’t find the Great White Bear – they had found the Golden Tree. Now the question is whether salvation is still available?
VK: So, it’s time to find out what happens to Roleb and his travelling companion in this Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 6
VK: Wow. So, now the village bears have met the great Frost Lion – the One who actually created the bears and the ice eagles. But Roleb’s friend is still dead. And we still don’t know what Roleb’s fate is going to be. Is it just too late for the Frost Lion to do anything to help Roleb and his friend? Seems there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

RD: Well, hopefully we’ll get the answers to all these questions next week since next week is part 7 and there’s only seven parts to this part of the Golden Tree saga. But part of what listeners should be listening for is why did the Frost Lion choose to appear at this time in the village bears’ history. After all, they had lived near the Golden Tree for many generations? What was it about this situation that made the Frost Lion arrive in the village? Maybe we’ll hear something about that next time too.
VK: And that’s a great lesson for why listeners should grab some friends and family and encourage them to tune in. It would be a good starting point for a discussion in a family setting, or a church youth group, or a home-school study project. The story can help kids learn about poetry as a form of literature, and also see how their imagination can be an important tool in getting immersed in the Bible.
RD: Right. Classically some of the greatest poetry ever written like Milton’s Paradise Lost was written under the inspiration of the Bible. We’ve lost some of that awareness but I firmly believe it can be reclaimed by again striving to honor the Lord in everything we do.
VK: So, what’s on tap for today as we are right on Christmas’ doorstep?
RD: I thought as our closeout topic for this series on Jesus it would be fitting to talk about the reason for the season: Christ’s birth. It’s been celebrated on December 25th for centuries, but unfortunately today even that fact has become a source of either criticism or else an outright attack on the historicity of Jesus. For instance, some critics will claim that the celebration of Christmas was an adaptation of the Roman festival of Saturnalia and that as such it casts doubt on the historicity of Jesus.
VK: And it is true that the Roman celebration of the Roman god Saturn did occur around the same time on the Julian calendar. The celebration originally started on December 17th but it was eventually expanded so that it lasted until December 23rd. And there are certainly elements of the Roman celebration of Saturnalia that correspond to how we celebrate Christmas. Saturnalia included parties, giving gifts, and plenty of food and drink. Though, it did differ markedly in certain ways. A lot of the time Saturnalia probably resembled Mardi Gras more than Christmas.
RD: And that’s because the Roman god, Saturn, was the god of abundance and plenty but he was also thought of as the god of dissipation and dissolution. And it’s also fair to say that some elements of the Christian celebration of Christmas were influenced by Saturnalia. In the fourth century AD, Pope Julius I (337–352) decided that Christ’s birthday should be celebrated on 25 December, around the same time as the Saturnalia celebrations. Some commentators have speculated that part of the reason why he chose this date may have been because he was trying to create a Christian alternative to Saturnalia. Another possibility may have been that in 274 AD, the Roman emperor Aurelian had declared 25 December the birthdate of Sol Invictus and Julius I may have thought that he could attract more converts to Christianity by allowing them to continue to celebrate on the same day. So it’s fair to say that the way in which we celebrate Christmas was probably influenced by Saturnalia, but that is quite a different thing from saying that just because the Roman god Saturn was mythological or fictional that Jesus was also. That would be the classic example of a non sequitur.
VK: Non Sequitur: a conclusion that does not necessarily follow. In other words it’s a logical fallacy to conclude that just because the god Saturn was a myth that Jesus must be a myth also just because there are some common elements in the way the two different figures were or are celebrated.
RD: Exactly.
VK: But, of course, that does raise the question of whether Pope Julius picked December 25th just because that was a time when there were already pagan celebrations going on, or whether there were other reasons for selecting that day?
RD: And that is a great question.
VK: I’m so glad you agree. So…
RD: We need to start out by saying that the Bible does not tell us exactly when Jesus was born. As one scholar put it, “the early Christians were not so much concerned with the date of Christ’s birth, as the fact of his birth.” And for those people who would like to take an in-depth look at when Jesus was born, there’s a great little book called Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ by Harold W. Hoehner. Much of what we’re going to talk about now comes from his book. The first question we need to address is not the day Jesus was born but the year.
VK: I think most people generally think that Jesus was born in 1 AD. Doesn’t AD stand for anno domini meaning the “year of the Lord?”
RD: Yes, it does. And that was the original intent when a Scythian monk named Dionysius originally prepared a calendar for use by the Western church at the direction of Pope John I in 525 AD. Before that time the Alexandrian system of dating was being used but it used as it base the reign of Diocletian who was a persecutor of the early church. Dionysius did not want the reference date for the church to be based on a persecutor. So Dionysius used the Julian system, which had been established by Julius Caesar, for the organization of the year which ran from January 1st to December 31st. And the year 1 AD was set on January 1st of 754 A.U.C. – anno urbis conditae – from the founding of the city of Rome. At the time Jesus was thought to have been born on December 25th of the prior year. Remember that there is no “zero” year. The calendar goes straight from 1 BC (before Christ) to 1 AD.
VK: But…
RD: But subsequent scholarship has determined that Dionysius didn’t get the translation between the AUC system and the system based on Christ’s birth year right. As our scripture today from Matthew noted, King Herod was still alive when Jesus was born. At the time it was thought that Herod died in 754 AUC but we now know that the latest date for Herod’s death was 750 AUC.
VK: So that would mean Jesus was actually born 4 or 5 years earlier than previously thought. So he was born in 4 or 5 BC, not December 25th of 1 BC. Interesting.
RD: Yes. But it’s worth noting that scholars are not even agreed on that.
VK: Because…?
RD: Because we have two scriptures that serve as the outer boundaries for Jesus’ birth. According to Matthew Jesus could not have been born later than Herod’s death, but according to Luke Jesus was born after a census that had been taken by a Roman official named Quirinius. In Greek Quirinius would have been Kyrenius. Luke says that this was “This was the first census that took place while a Quirinius was governor of Syria.” One of the issues was there aren’t any clear records about when this census took place. Josephus does not mention a census that took place during Herod’s reign but he does mention one that took place in 6 or 7 AD. So scholars are not unified on the date that this previous census might have taken place. This is one of the more puzzling questions that still linger about the birth of Jesus.
VK: So, does Dr. Hoehner discuss this question in his book?
RD: He does and there is actually a wealth of discussion available from many sources on this first census of Quirinius. Here are a few things we know for certain. The Romans were well known to take censuses throughout their empire to establish what we might call the basis for taxation and it was common for them to take them about every 14 years. Second, the text from Luke that says that Quirinius was the governor of Syria does not actually use the normal word, legatus, that is translated as “governor.” It uses a more generalized term for being in charge or leading. Third, we know that Quirinius was in the mid-East from 12 B.C. to 2 B.C. successively suppressing rebellions taking place in modern day Turkey. Apparently, Quirinius was well known as a successful military leader.
VK: So, it would make sense that he was given charge of an important task of taking a census even if was done as an extra duty. Also, it would make sense that Augustus would want a census taken in that part of the empire because Herod had fallen out of favor with Augustus around 7 or 8 BC and by then it was known that his health was failing and that his sons were quarrelling over who would succeed him. Herod changed his will 3 times in the year before his death, each time naming a different son. Augustus knew about the changes and the quarrels because Herod had to get Augustus’ permission before making the changes.
RD: Or executing one of his sons which Herod also did – again with Augustus’ knowledge and consent.
VK: So that helps show that Herod was the kind of a king who would order the murder of all boys, 2 years old and under, in and around Bethlehem to get rid of a child the Magi had described the “king of the Jews.” So, it looks very much like Quirinius might have been in charge of a census sometime in the latter part of Herod’s reign around 5 BC. Herod died in 4 BC. But, what about the specific day? Did Pope Julius just pick that day because it roughly corresponded with Saturnalia?
RD: We can’t be entirely sure why Pope Julius picked December 25th but the traditional date for Jesus’ birth had been around for at least 100 or 150 years before he set it officially within the church calendar. At a minimum an early church father named Hippolytus of Rome (ca 165-235 AD) had proposed that date. It is thought that Hippolytus might have had some greater insight about Jesus because he was associated with one of the early disciples of the Apostle John. There’s not a lot of information in scripture itself to pin down the date, but the tradition of a midwinter date for his birth does date back to the very earliest of the church fathers. Also, it’s fair to note that December 25th is the traditional day of celebration in the Western church but the Eastern church has traditionally used January 6th as the birthday and arrival of the Magi.
VK: But some people object to the December date because a part of Luke that we didn’t listen to today says the shepherds were keeping watch on their flocks which were out in the fields at night. It is generally known that the shepherds brought their sheep into enclosures from about November through March. So the thinking is that if the sheep were out in the field it couldn’t have been December.
RD: And that’s a reasonable observation but it’s not conclusive. First, it might have been a mild winter so there would have been less reason to keep the sheep enclosed. Second, the sheep were apparently in and around Bethlehem as opposed to being out in their spring and summer feeding grounds in the wilderness so this makes it far more likely the birth was in the winter. The shepherds had to be close enough to be able to get to family who were lodged in the stable in Bethlehem fairly quickly. Third, there are Jewish texts that say that the sheep that were going to be used for the Passover celebration were to be out in the field for at least 30 days before the celebration. Passover could have been as early as February so this would again reinforce a midwinter date as early as late December or early January.
VK: The bottom line is that - again – when you look at the details of history and the gospel accounts it dispels completely the notion that even if there are superficial resemblances between the Christian celebration of Christmas and some pagan winter festivals that somehow diminishes the historicity of Jesus as a person. Or his birth in Bethlehem on a night over 2,000 years ago. Sounds like a great time for a prayer. Today since we’re so close to Christmas let’s listen to a prayer about that special day.
---- Prayer for Christmas
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of the first part of the the Golden Tree saga, The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest, is available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 2, verses 1 and 2, New International Version

Episode 192 – Jesus and the Great Commission
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
The devil took [Jesus] to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 4, verses 8 through 10, New International Version
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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time event lighting technician. He straightens out the cords on the Christmas lights before we put them up. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to finish up our current series where we have focused on the life and historicity of Jesus. And we’re going to hear the last installment of our seven part, epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. When we left off last time the koala bears who live in the arctic village that surrounds the Golden Tree had just encountered the Frost Lion for the first time in their history. The bears have lived in the valley surrounding the tree for many generations and had heard of the Frost Lion but this is the first time they have ever seen him. And they have only seen him now because the lion has chosen to come to their village. Why did the Frost Lion choose to come to their village now, RD?
RD: Well, the biggest reason that the Frost Lion has chosen to enter the bears’ village at this time is because something else has happened to the bears for the first time in their generations around the tree. For the first time since the bears have lived in the village they have had visitors from their ancestral homeland. A bear named Roleb and his travelling companion had made an arduous journey to the north because they were concerned about the state of their village’s faith. Roleb’s travelling companion died just before they could reach the village. Roleb himself was almost at the point of death. They had known that their quest to travel to the great far north would be dangerous but they had made it because their homeland had lost its faith in the bears’ creator who they thought of as the Great White Koala Bear. To try to preserve their own tribe’s faith the two bears from down under had gone searching in the arctic even though they were mocked for doing so. Fortunately for them, two teenage bears from Golden Tree village had spotted Roleb just as he collapsed on the snowy wastelands outside their village. This had kicked off a search for Roleb’s friend. With the aid of a Great Ice Eagle, Gabriel, they had found the friend but he had just died. But when they brought the friend back to the village the Frost Lion was there. But no one knows what the Frost Lion can do – and no one knows what the Frost Lion will do …
VK: So, it’s time to find out what happens to Roleb, and his travelling companion in this Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 7
VK: So, the Frost Lion was able to raise Roleb’s friend from the dead. But I hope that most listeners noticed that the Frost Lion didn’t just stop with restoring the life and health of the two bears down under. The Frost Lion began the process of addressing the deeper need – the fact that the bear clan down under was losing its faith. So just like Jesus did after His resurrection the Frost Lion commissioned missionaries from the Golden Tree village to carry the good news back with Roleb and his friend. Obviously, the message you are sending through this poem is that we live in a day and age when many people in our own clans are losing, or have lost, their faith. And we need to be missionaries to our family and friends. Because if we aren’t who will be?

RD: Yes. And for any listeners who haven’t heard the previous episodes of The Frost Lion, they need to know that for the last six weeks we have been playing one section of The Frost Lion during each episode of Anchored by Truth. And since Anchored by Truth is available on most major podcasting apps listeners who want to hear those episodes can do so at any time. Unfortunately, we don’t have the time today to repeat those portions of the poem. But listeners who would like to hear all of the action and adventure that led up to today’s conclusion can listen to those episodes from their favorite podcast app or on our website, crystalseabooks.com.
VK: And just as a reminder as of the time of the production of this broadcast and podcast in late 2022 The Frost Lion has not yet been made available for commercial release but that will happen in the early part of 2023.
RD: That’s a good note. So, let’s amplify on the reason that the Frost Lion has now chosen to visit the bears, his disciples, in the village around the Golden Tree. For the first time since the bears had come to live near the Golden Tree they had now been presented with a missionary need. In other words, the Golden Tree village bears now knew that their ancestors had actually been saved generations ago for a reason – and that reason had now been brought to their attention in an unmistakable way.
VK: Well, if we went back to the first part of the Golden Tree Tales which is The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest we heard the heroine, Komari, say something significant which was quoted by Kodan in The Frost Lion. In her confrontation with the Demon Lord Komari said, “
For if not for the tree, which of us
Would ever have even been born?
The tree saved our forebears
When they came upon it that morn.
Ever since then, we’ve not been our own,
Our lives bought for a price.
This tree that was sown for you and me
Was the Great White Bear’s sacrifice.”
So, that’s part of the point you’re making with this whole epic saga. Those of us who know Christ as our Savior have been saved for a reason.
RD: Right. So, in answer to the question of why did the Frost Lion appear now it was because the Frost Lion wanted to commission the Golden Tree village bears to begin what is sometimes termed “The Great Commission.” The Great Commission is the mission that Jesus gave to His followers in Matthew, chapter 28 and which we heard repeated in the section of the poem we heard today. After His resurrection Jesus told the followers who had been with Him throughout His earthly ministry that the time had come for them to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and [teach] them to obey everything I have commanded you.” That’s from the New International Version of Matthew, chapter 28, verses 19 and 20.
VK: So, the reason that the Frost Lion appeared in the Golden Tree village at this time reminds us that there came and a time and place in history when the Lion of Judah entered world history to conduct His earthly ministry. And as we have talked about in other episodes of Anchored by Truth the time that Jesus entered world history as the God-Man wasn’t a random time. It was the time that had been chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world. Up to that time the world was being prepared for the arrival of the Messiah, the Anointed One, because it was at that time that the good news of salvation was going to be made available to a much larger audience.
RD: Right. Before the incarnation it’s not that there weren’t Gentiles who had worshipped the One True God – there were. But up to Jesus’ arrival on the earth the primary audience for God’s message that He was going to provide a Savior had been the Jews. All that changed with Jesus’ life. After Jesus’ earthly life, death, and resurrection not only did Jesus issue the Great Commission to His first followers but we see other evangelical and apostolic giants such as the Apostle Paul come on the scene and begin a concerted outreach to the Gentile nations as well as continuing the spread of the gospel among the Jews. But, this outreach was not going to be easy. Jesus knew it wouldn’t be which is, I believe, He made it so plain that this was a mission He was now assigning His followers. It would have been easy, more natural, for them to want to just speak to their countrymen in Israel or even just to other Jews. The outreach to the Gentiles was going to be hard – but it was the right thing to do because that’s the reason God had preserved His chosen people for thousands of years.
VK: That calls to mind a line out of the West Point cadet prayer that you mentioned to me a long time ago. The line says, “O God, our Father … Make us choose the harder right rather than the easier wrong and never to be content with a half-truth when the whole can be won.”
RD: Exactly. God had selected and preserved a people for Himself because it was through that people that He was going to bring a Savior for the whole world. Jesus, of course, was that Savior. But even after proving that He was the Son of God and the Messiah through His earthly ministry Jesus still had to complete His mission and send His followers to carry that message to the rest of the world. Until the message of salvation was sent to the rest of the world the rest of the world was still under the burden and curse of sin. But the message of salvation could and did change that.
VK: And that calls to mind Jesus saying in Matthew, chapter 11, verses 28 and 29 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” Jesus’ promise is to help us bear our burdens not merely to dismiss them from our lives but we have to hear that good news for it to be effective in people’s lives.
RD: Exactly right. So, living near the Golden Tree had brought many blessings to the bears in the arctic village. But it wasn’t enough for them to enjoy those blessings. They had a responsibility to share their blessings with others.
VK: So, that brings us to another question. Couldn’t Roleb and his companion just go back to their village and told their friends and neighbors they had seen the Golden Tree, the Frost Lion, and the northern bears?
RD: They could have but it would strengthen their witness to have others from the Golden Tree village support their testimony. That’s something anyone who has ever testified to their friends and neighbors will tell you. We all have a responsibility to give a reason for the hope that lies within us. That’s 2 Peter 3:15. But our witness is strengthened when we have others who will go with us and add their voices to our testimony. That’s one of the reasons it’s important to always engage in Christian fellowship with other believers. Sometimes we can put too much emphasis on that old admonition that “if it’s to be, it’s up to me.” Well, of course, we must do our part. But we should also seek the help of others in our own missionary activities.
VK: That’s a really important point. As Christians we can get so caught up in struggling to be good believers, good workers, or good parents or family members that we can forget to turn to other believers for support and help. And we must always trust the Lord to support us and depend on the Lord to provide for us. There’s nothing wrong with hard work but ultimately if we think that our lives and destinies on this earth are all about us we are in danger of relying on our strength rather than the Lord’s.
RD: Right. And again our model in how to approach struggles is Christ in his confrontation with Satan. Even Jesus didn’t depend on Himself to when He responded to the temptations presented by Satan. When Jesus needed strength to repel Satan Jesus went to scripture.
VK: And most people may not realize that all of the scriptures Jesus used came from probably one of the least well-known books in the Bible, Deuteronomy. Christ quoted Deuteronomy, chapter 8, verse 3 in response to the first temptation Satan presented. He quoted Deuteronomy, chapter 6, verse 16 in response to the second temptation, and Deuteronomy, chapter 6, verse 13 in response to the third temptation. This certainly reinforces the need to study the entire Bible. Jesus certainly knew all of the Old Testament and used it in his life.
RD: Right. Part of us fulfilling our role in the Great Commission is recognizing that the Lord is sovereign and we are not. Even Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane for the Father’s will to be done and not his own. We must be willing to witness and testify to others, kindly and gently, but ultimately the results are up to God. Only God can bring change to a human heart.
VK: And that calls to mind James, chapter 1, verse 17. “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.” So, in essence what you’re saying is that Jesus is not only the One who issued the Great Commission but Jesus is the One who enables us to fulfill it. We dare not try to undertake any part of the Great Commission or any other aspect of the Christian life on our own. We must always turn to, and trust in, Jesus to guide and provide.
RD: Yes. Jesus is both the source of the instruction and the strength for the obedience. Turning to Jesus should be our first response but all too often I fear it’s our last resort. I always wince a little when I hear people say “the only thing I can do for you is to pray.”
VK: Because as you say in your book Purposeful Prayers “the whispered prayer that stirs the hand of God dwarfs the most powerful force in the universe.”
RD: Yes. The one big advantage that the bears who lived in the Golden Tree had over their southern relatives was that they had learned that ultimately the supply for their needs came from a source outside themselves. They had lived near the Golden Tree for generations. They knew there was a source of blessing outside of their own effort and that’s where they placed their trust. Anyone or anything that tempts you to place your trust in anything other than God cannot be of God. It’s not that we should not work hard to develop our own skills and abilities but we must keep them in proper perspective.
VK: The Apostle Paul essentially affirmed this sentiment in the one of the best-known verses from the Bible: Philippians, chapter 4, verse 13. “For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength”
RD: Exactly. We should learn from Golden Tree village bears’ example to be discerning when the world presents us with challenges or opportunities. Jesus is our sure and certain guide in this world and the primary way Jesus imparts wisdom to us is through the Bible. That’s why we must become so familiar with the Bible that we can immediately discern things or events in our lives that tempt us to depart from its teaching. There are a lot of things that will come our way that may not seem to be harmful, in and of themselves, but we can see that it what they offer or tempt us to do will not be consistent with scripture. At my age I’ve learned that the most important skill we can develop is spiritual discernment and we can only get that from the Bible and developing a strong network of mature Christian friends.
VK: And while The Frost Lion doesn’t get into that level of detail it’s obvious from the poem that the bears had a strong regard for genuine wisdom and Kodan, Kojon, Koest and all the reset developed even more wisdom after their encounter with the Frost Lion. Christ came to bring us not only joy and peace but “life more abundantly.” But how can we enjoy that abundant life if we don’t ensure that as we travel through life we stay as close as humanly possible to the author of all life, peace, and joy. Staying close to Jesus means reading the Bible, developing a strong prayer life, and staying connected to other believers who can bless us and who we can bless in turn. Sounds like a great time for a prayer. Today since we’re so close to New Year’s Day let’s listen to a prayer for blessings to come to us in the new year.
---- Prayer for NEW YEAR’S DAY
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on our website or your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” Also, we’d like to remind listeners that copies of the first part of the Golden Tree saga, The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest, is available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 4, verses 8 through 10, New International Version

Episode 193 – Eternal Information – Part 1 – What is Information
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God. From the very beginning the Word was with God.
The Gospel of John, Chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, Good News Translation

********
VK: Hello and Happy New Year! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you at the start of this New Year and we pray that this year will bring joy and blessings to all our listeners, especially the joy of having a closer fellowship with our Lord Christ Jesus. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to start the new year with a new – and frankly novel series. As just about everyone knows, the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last decade than probably in the first two centuries of the country’s existence. So, as we open up this New Year we want to discuss a subject that has particular relevance in our day and time –being able to demonstrate that the Christian faith has a firm basis in reason and evidence. RD has entitled this series “Eternal Information.” So, we have RD who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books, in the studio today. RD, why did you decide we need to take a special look at the topic of “information?”
RD: Well, I’d also like to say Happy New Year to everyone who is joining us here today. I wanted to spend a few episodes of Anchored by Truth focusing on information in part because of a book I came across not too long ago called In the Beginning was Information. The book was written by a German information specialist named Dr. Werner Gitt.

VK: Dr. Gitt was a director and professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology and he was the head of the Department of Information Technology there. Obviously, Dr. Gitt knows a thing or two about information.
RD: Obviously. And just obviously the title of Dr. Gitt’s book is a play on Genesis, chapter 1, verse 1 and the Gospel of John, chapter 1, verse 1 which we heard in our opening scripture today.
VK: In the New International Version, Genesis, chapter 1, verse 1 reads, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Those are certainly two of the most famous verses in the Bible.
RD: Yes, they are. So, when I heard about Dr. Gitt’s book I became intrigued because just hearing the title made me look at those two verses in a different light. It’s not just the title calls to mind Genesis, chapter 1, verse 1 and John, chapter 1, verse 1. It’s that it made me start thinking about how the undeniable existence of information gives us a whole new way of demonstrating to the unbelieving world that it is impossible to form a coherent view of life and the universe without acknowledging the existence of God.
VK: And helping spread the awareness that you must acknowledge God to have a coherent worldview is one of the ideas that we focus on here at Anchored by Truth. And it’s become increasingly important even with the church. We live in an age where our historical cultural consensus has shifted. Some commentators have said that we are now living in a “post-Christian” world. For people who are not believers this means that they live in a world that has gone “beyond” the constraints and “narrowness” of Christianity. Fewer people, as a percentage of the population, belong to churches than in generations past, and many of the mainline churches are experiencing declines not only in membership, but in influence on society, government, education, family, and the culture as a whole. As we look around us we see that young people are far more consumed by the death of an entertainer than the death and resurrection of Jesus. We also see that more people are consumed by concern for temporary pleasures than their eternal destiny. This is obviously is dangerous to individual destinies but it is also dangerous to the destiny of our communities and nation.
RD: Exactly. People within the church have been warning of the danger we’re facing for decades but the danger has only grown during those decades. We want to point people back to the eternal truth that there is a God and that God has a plan not only for people but for communities, nations, and the world. But we don’t want to just proclaim the truth, though that is obviously where we must start. We also want to explain the evidence and reasons behind our belief. And it turns out that the concept of information forms an extremely powerful line of evidence that points to the fact that God existence can’t be reasonably denied without abandoning any claim of living a life guided by logic and reason. You know it’s not enough to simply point out the danger that comes from abandoning God. We have to do what we can to turn people away from the danger.
VK: And the danger posed by abandoning God has been recognized for quite a while now. Almost 3 decades ago, in their 1994 book, Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli [TA-CHEL-EE], who are both professors of the philosophy of religion at Boston College, said the following:
“Western civilization is for the first time in its history in danger of dying. The reason is spiritual. It is losing its life, its soul; that soul was the Christian faith. The infection killing it is not multiculturalism – other faiths – but the monoculturalism of secularism – no faith, no soul. Our century has been marked by genocide, sexual chaos and money-worship. Unless all the prophets are liars, we are doomed unless we repent. . .The church of Christ will never die, but our civilization will. If the gates of hell will not prevail against the church, this world certainly won’t. We do apologetics not to save the church, but to save the world.”
VK: Well, before we go too much farther we want to acknowledge someone who has been very important to our show, Dr. Gregg Alexander. Dr. Alexander practiced medicine in Tallahassee, Florida for over 4 decades but more importantly for us, he led a Sunday school class in his church for more than 25 years. Dr. Alexander is extremely thoughtful and insightful. We are indebted to him because his counsel and insight especially about apologetics has been extremely valuable and elements of it are going to appear throughout this series. We may not always have time to acknowledge a particular example of his contributions so we just want acknowledge his importance and value right up front. So, how do you want to start?
RD: Well, let’s take a look at a seemingly innocuous example of something you hear every day that actually has profound implications. How often do you say to someone or have someone say to you “Send me your information.”
VK: I imagine that phrase “send me your information” is probably said thousands or millions of times a day all around the world.
RD: But what does it mean?
VK: For most people it means send me your “contact information” such as phone number, email address, possibly your job or office information and – these days rarely – your mailing address. In other words, “send me your information” is another way of saying tell me how I can get a hold of you.
RD: I agree. We ask for people to give us their information without a second thought. And similarly we don’t think very much about the way they are going to send that information. These days it will probably be electronically more often than not but even with electronic transmission the actual media will vary. Some people might use email, others text messages, and in some cases the two people won’t have to do anything at all. If they are close enough some cell phones might automatically exchange information with other phones.
VK: And, again, rarely people might send a card, business card, or even a letter to a physical address that would provide the information.
RD: Agreed. But the key thing to notice about any and all of these possibilities is that the thing that everyone wants, the information, has nothing to do with the form of transmission. The information will remain the same regardless of whether it’s emailed, sent via the post office or messenger, or even whether someone sent it using smoke signals, Morse code, or carved it on a clay tablet and dropped it off? The information, the object of the transmission, is completely independent of the mode of transmitting it from one party to another.
VK: So, what you’re saying is that the content of the information has nothing to do with the method of transmission. And, to carry that thought a little further, the information content has nothing to do with the matter or energy that goes into its production, transmission, or retention. We can type one set of characters on a keyboard and say one thing, and we can type another set of characters on that same keyboard and say something completely different. The same set of plastic, copper, and glass can produce a recipe for tiramisu or the instructions for building a nuclear bomb. We can use a pen and paper to send someone our address and phone number or to give them the location of buried treasure.
RD: Exactly. The nature or content of the information has nothing to do with the chemistry or physics used to produce, transmit, or store the information. The same chemistry or physics can produce treasure maps, diagrams for building houses or airplanes, or a formula for a life-saving medicine. You get the idea. So, the question arises then – exactly what is information?
VK: I see where you’re going. Information is real. Information has content. Information tells us what is going on in the worlds of chemistry, physics, or biology. But information is not dependent on any of those things. Information can affect chemistry or physics but it is not arise from chemistry or physics. I suppose another way of saying the same thing is that information is not dependent on the matter or energy but matter and energy are used in the transmission or reception of information. When you start to look at it closely information is a tricky sort of thing.
RD: Information is a tricky sort of thing because the information itself is non-material but we can perceive it, record it, store it, and transmit it by material means. The fact that information is non-material is a very important attribute to note. Information may be transmitted, stored, and received by material means but none of that affects the information itself. Nor does the type of material being used to transmit or store the information matter. The same chemical formula can be written on paper, appear on a computer screen, be etched into stone, or simply memorized by a person but the formula, the information, remains the same. The non-material nature of information is going to be key fact that we will revisit frequently during this series.
VK: Well, here is an obvious question. If information is non-material does that mean it’s spiritual? Christians, of course, acknowledge the reality of the spiritual realm. Ephesians, chapter 6, verse 12 is one of the best known verses in the Bible and it says, “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm.”
RD: When we say that information is non-material we are definitely not saying that it is spiritual. By saying it is non-material we are noting that information as a component of the created order is present and evident in what we might call the natural world. It’s just that in the natural world information cannot be measured by any one of the same units that are used to measure and express the attributes of matter or energy.
VK: According to one of the articles that Dr. Gitt wrote for Creation Ministries International a physical magnitude is a “System of units that has seven base units: mass, length, electric current, temperature, amount of substance, luminous intensity and time. All physical quantities can be expressed in terms of one of these base units (e.g. area = length x length) or by a combination (by multiplication or division) of several base units (e.g. momentum = mass x length / time). This is not possible in the case of information and therefore information [does not possess] physical magnitude!”
RD: Exactly. Speaking precisely, information does not have any mass. It is massless. All matter involves mass which can be weighed in a gravitational field. Similarly, information, though it can be transmitted by energy, is not created by energy nor does it interact with energy. Thus, information can be distinguished from other massless entities such as photons, which are massless but which can be generated by matter and do interact with matter in the physical domain. We know from Einstein’s famous formula that matter and energy have a direct relationship with one another.
VK: You’re referring to Einstein’s famous formula from the Theory of Relativity “e=mc2.”
RD: Yes. But, so while information is non-material it is present and an integral part of the observable universe. But the spiritual realm that Bible recognizes is not part of the observable universe. In effect, there is a veil that separates the spiritual portion of God’s creation and the physical portion. We would not know about the spiritual portion if God had not chosen to reveal its existence in His special revelation, the Bible. This is quite different from information where we cannot avoid acknowledging its presence in the observable universe.
VK: In fact, if someone wanted to deny that information exists they would be using information to try to make their denial. Denying the existence of information is itself a form of information. As we have discussed at other times on Anchored by Truth the concept of information is self-affirming. It cannot be denied without at the same time being used. So, that answers the question of how information – even though it is non-material – is not the same as a spiritual entity. Information’s existence is easily, and non-deniably, discernible from observations of the physical universe. The spiritual dimension can only be known by a revelation from a spiritual being which God is. The Gospel of John, chapter 4, verse 24 tells us that “God is spirit.” So, where do you want to go from here?
RD: Well, I always think a good place to start when you’re looking at a concept is with defining some terms. So, let’s take a look at a couple of definitions for the term “information.” Why don’t you start by reading the definition of information from the Merriam Webster Dictionary?
VK: The online Merriam Webster Dictionary defines information as (1 ) knowledge obtained from investigation, study, or instruction; or (2 ) the attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something (such as nucleotides in DNA or binary digits in a computer program) that produce specific effects.
RD: Right. That second portion of the definition is particularly intriguing because even the Merriam Webster Dictionary takes notice of the fact that DNA, which is a component of the cells of all living creatures, contains information. One of the episodes that we are going to do during this “Eternal Information” series is going to focus on the information present in biological entities – in living creatures. But for now let’s note that Merriam Webster notes that information is “inherent in and communicated” by “sequences” or “arrangements of something” and that those sequences or arrangements “produce specific effects.” Now let’s take a look at a definition for “information” that Dr. Gitt has expressed.
VK: In an article that Dr. Gitt produced for Creation Ministries International Dr. Gitt stated this: “…we developed an unambiguous definition of information: namely an encoded, symbolically represented message conveying expected action and intended purpose. We term any entity meeting the requirements of this definition as “universal information” (UI).” We’ll put a link to this article in the podcast notes that are available on certain podcasting apps.
RD: So, immediately we see some common elements between the Merriam Webster definition and Dr. Gitt’s definition of information even though Dr. Gitt is being more technical for purposes he comes to later in his discussion. Merriam Webster talks about “alternative sequences or arrangements of something …that produce specific effects.” Dr. Gitt speaks about an “encoded, symbolically represented message.” Merriam Webster says that the sequence or arrangement of something is intended “produce specific effects.” Dr. Gitt says that the symbolically coded message is “conveying expected action and intended purpose.” So, both of these definitions are pointing to some essential elements that are inherent in “information.” Information contains specified sequences, elements, codes, and symbols. And those specified sequences, elements, codes, and symbols have been arranged or encoded for a specific purpose to produce specific effects. So, in addition to the non-material nature of information another overarching concept that leaps out at us about information is that information is ordered, organized, and specified. We can be certain, then, that information is an expression of intelligence. It has to be. Information cannot be the product of mindless, random, or undirected activity of anything. Organization and randomness are the opposites of each other. Nothing random or chaotic is going to produce a sequence of codes or symbols that it intended to produce a specific effect.
VK: Your cat might walk across your computer keyboard and generate a series of letters on the screen and might even hit a button that generates a print command. But that does not mean that the series of letters or characters you see on the screen or the printed piece of paper constitutes information. The product of your cat’s activity on the keyboard is gibberish or nonsense. If the cat does enough walking on the keyboard it might by chance generate a recognizable word like “eat” or “to.” But that still does not make the cat’s production information. Information, as a component of the physical universe, possesses order, structure, specificity, and meaning. So, we’ve covered some important concepts today but is there anything else we need to discuss before we close for today.
RD: Yes. The big reason we are undertaking this series on information is not just to have a philosophical discussion about information but to point out that information points undeniably to existence of the God of the Bible. As we’ve been discussing information is always the product of intelligence. So, if information is present as a component of the observable universe that means that intelligence must be also. Let’s say this a little differently. Much of the time our contemporary culture views the universe as being a construct composed of matter, energy, time, and space. The most radical among us say that that is all that is present anywhere and by doing so they are trying to exclude the possibility of God’s existence as a reasonable proposition.
VK: One of the most common objections to acknowledging God is that if God can’t be seen or heard or touched then there is no evidence of God’s existence. That’s a common assertion today and is the attitude, usually unspoken, that underlies the assertion, “you have faith, but I have science.”
RD: Yes. Christians, by contrast, point out that not only do logic, reason, and evidence – and science - affirm God’s existence but the notion that God doesn’t exist always runs into irreconcilable conflicts and logical fallacies. This discussion of information is simply pointing to another one of those conflicts and fallacies. If it could be shown that the universe were the result of just matter, energy, time, and space ideas like the Big Bang theory and the General Theory of Evolution might be sensible. But as we have been discussing the universe cannot be reduced to being the product of just matter, energy, time, and space. The universe as we see it around us contains, and must contain, information.
VK: In effect, you’re saying that the observable universe goes beyond the material elements in its composition. That’s very similar to the question you sometimes ask about whether physics plus chemistry can produce biology. That’s the notion that undergirds the entire idea of evolution. The basic idea is that some chemical components eons ago randomly collided with each other. There was an energy source, though no one knows quite what it was, that somehow activated the chemical elements and voila – life started. But as you point out so frequently, chemistry plus physics does not equal biology. Chemistry plus physics plus information equals biology.
RD: Yep. The universe we see around us is more than just matter, energy, time, and space. Matter and energy are material components of the universe and the space-time continuum defines the boundaries within which matter and energy interact. But, at a bare minimum, those four components by themselves could never give rise to life, even if they could somehow explain all of the inanimate elements of the universe.
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that information and its presence in the universe is another line of evidence that proves that if God did not exist the universe would not appear as we see it. Information is non-material and information always exhibits order, organization, specificity, and purpose. And those things require intelligence. Well, sounds like we’re in for quite a thought-provoking journey. Hopefully, not too many headaches. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer of praise of Adoration for the Creator God who set the cosmos into motion and established a home on the earth for His people as He prepares them for an eternity with Him in heaven.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION FOR THE CREATOR
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the Good News Translation)
The Gospel of John, Chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, Good News Translation
Laws of information 1 (creation.com)
Laws of information 2 (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)

Episode 194 – Eternal Information – Part 2 – Information and God
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.”
Genesis, Chapter 1, verses 3 through 5, New International Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you at the start of a New Year. We pray that this year will bring everyone the joy of having a closer fellowship with our Lord Christ Jesus. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re continuing the series we began during our last episode which we are calling “Eternal Information.” I think most listeners to Anchored by Truth know that the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last couple of decades than in the preceding two centuries of existence. So, as we open up a New Year we want to again call attention to a subject that has special importance in our day and time – demonstrating that the Christian faith has a firm basis in reason and evidence. Today in the studio we have RD who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, “information” is not a topic typically associated with Christian apologetics but you believe information is one of the most straightforward ways we can direct people to the necessary existence of a personal Creator.
RD: Well, I’d also like to greet everyone joining us on Anchored by Truth. I became intrigued about the possibilities offered by the concept of information for demonstrating the existence of God when I ran across a book called In the Beginning was Information. The book was written by a German information specialist named Dr. Werner Gitt.
VK: Dr. Gitt was a director and professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology and he was the head of the Department of Information Technology there. And just to remind everyone the word “apologetics,” is a broad umbrella term for what we’re talking about when we say that the concept of information points to the need for God to exist. Apologetics can broadly be defined as “a defense for our faith.” Apologetics comes from a compound Greek word. Greek, like English, has compound words made of two or more other words. In this case the Greek words are apo, primarily used to mean “from;” and logos, primarily meaning, in its most generic sense, “word.” Logos is also commonly used in an expanded way to mean “reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, and calculating.” The Greek philosopher Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe.
RD: The Apostle John’s used that same word, logos, in John 1:1. The Gospel of John, chapter 1, verse 1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Apologetics means “from the mind,” and, in the sense of John 1:1 it means “from the mind of God.” We now use the term “apologetics” to mean the defense of the Christian faith. when I heard about Dr. Gitt’s book I became intrigued because just hearing the title made me look at John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1 in a different light. It’s not just the title of Dr. Gitt’s book calls those verses to mind. It’s that understanding the nature and use of information gives us a whole new way of demonstrating to the unbelieving world that it is impossible to form a coherent view of life and the universe without acknowledging the existence of God.
VK: So, how do we go about doing that?
RD: Well, let’s take a look at a couple of definitions for the term “information” that we covered in our last episode. And then I want to propose my own definition for information which I think of as a sort of theological definition of information.
VK: So, now you’re conjuring up your own definitions of words?
RD: Well, what I try to do is to think carefully through concepts to see how they’re related and then reduce that down to one or two sentences where possible. The result resembles a definition so that’s what I’m going to call it. But before we get to mine let’s look at one from more authoritative sources. We covered this on our last episode but it’s important for this one too. Why don’t you start by reading the definition of information from the Merriam Webster Dictionary?
VK: The online Merriam Webster Dictionary defines information as (1 ) knowledge obtained from investigation, study, or instruction; or (2 ) the attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something (such as nucleotides in DNA or binary digits in a computer program) that produce specific effects.
RD: Right. And as we pointed out in the last episode the second portion of the definition is particularly intriguing because even the Merriam Webster Dictionary takes notice of the fact that DNA, which is a component of the cells of all living creatures, contains information. One of the episodes that we are going to do during this “Eternal Information” series is going to focus on the information present in biological entities – in living creatures. Now let’s take a look at a definition for “information” that Dr. Gitt has developed.
VK: In an article that Dr. Gitt produced for Creation Ministries International Dr. Gitt stated this: “…we developed an unambiguous definition of information: namely an encoded, symbolically represented message conveying expected action and intended purpose. We term any entity meeting the requirements of this definition as “universal information” (UI).” We’ll put a link to this article in the podcast notes that are available on certain podcasting apps.
RD: So, immediately we see some common elements between the Merriam Webster definition and Dr. Gitt’s definition of information even though Dr. Gitt is being more technical for purposes he comes to later in his discussion. Merriam Webster talks about “alternative sequences or arrangements of something …that produce specific effects.” Dr. Gitt speaks about an “encoded, symbolically represented message.” Merriam Webster says that the sequence or arrangement of something is intended “produce specific effects.” Dr. Gitt says that the symbolically coded message is “conveying expected action and intended purpose.” So, both of these definitions are pointing to some essential elements that are inherent in “information.” Information contains specified sequences, elements, codes, and symbols. And those specified sequences, elements, codes, and symbols have been arranged or encoded for a specific purpose to produce specific effects. The overarching concept is that information is ordered, organized, and specified.
VK: So, what is your definition for information?
RD: My definition for information is “Information is the expression of God’s essential omniscience manifested in creation where it imposes order and enables life.” I know on first hearing that’s a lot to consume but we’re going to use the rest of this episode to go through it. So, let me repeat it. Information is the expression of God’s essential omniscience manifested in creation where it imposes order and enables life.
VK: I can see why you said it was a sort of theological definition of information. What you’re doing is pointing out that there is nothing present in the created order that did not come from God. And God can only express what God possesses. Of course, God is omnipotent and omniscient so He pretty much possesses everything. But that’s the point isn’t it. As long as our worldview includes God as creator it’s easy to explain the existence of things that is impossible to explain coherently without Him.
RD: Yes. Without acknowledging God you’re forced to conceive of the universe as having no superintending intelligence. As such you’re forced to trace everything that exists to somehow being generated by the random, chaotic, and undirected interaction of matter with matter, or matter with energy. Atoms might collide with other atoms and form molecules and even remain together if the right electromagnetic forces are present but in a God-less universe nothing helps those atoms and molecules do anything useful in an inanimate way much less create life.
VK: It’s well known that simplest bacterial cell that doesn’t have a nucleus contains 100 billion atoms. Human cells are far more complex. Human beings have over 35 trillion cells. And all those cells have jobs. And there are thousands of protein machines within those cells that also have their own jobs – building the cell’s wall; bringing energy supplies in and taking waste products out; guiding the process of duplication and replication; repairing damage. The number of tasks performed by an ordinary human cell dwarfs the activity within an ordinary factory. When you consider those relatively simple facts it does stagger the mind that anyone believes that all that ordered, specified complexity could have arisen by chance.
RD: Exactly. Without God the possibility of the simplest cell being assembled accidently is off the charts in terms of probability. Michael Denton who wrote the book Evolution: A Theory in Crisis points out that the task of randomly assembling a single protein, which contains thousands of atoms, is 1 in a number that is greater that the number of atoms in the known universe.
VK: But, of course, with God all things are possible just as Jesus told his disciples in Matthew, chapter 19, verse 26. But that’s the point. An omnipotent God overcomes the need to envision chance as building the complex structures of the universe including life. And, frankly, without God there isn’t a coherent explanation for why atoms would exist in the first place.
RD: Yes. So, my definition for information is designed to point to the fact that information is not itself just sort of a “feature” of the universe. Information arises from a source and that source would have to be intelligent because information is ordered, organized, and specified. The Merriam Webster definition says that the sequence or arrangement of something is intended “produce specific effects.” Dr. Gitt says that the symbolically coded message is “conveying expected action and intended purpose.” Therefore, information reflects both order and intent. But … and here is the big point of my definition – information was present at the very beginning of creation. And when we think carefully about that fact it points to information being in use by God prior to the creation of the physical universe.
VK: I see where you’re going with this. Information is not just an undeniable feature of the physical order. It was present with God even before He created this physical universe. The Apostle Paul says as much. In Ephesians, chapter 1, verse 4, Paul say, “Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.” That’s from the New Living Translation. But what that says very quickly is that God “chose us in Christ” even before God made the world. That means God was using information in His eternal realm even before He made the earth.
RD: Yes. So, let’s think about this. God was “choosing,” as well as performing other activities before He made the earth – which was the first thing He did in creating the universe. Remember the first verse of the Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” But God was using information before that. To choose “us” – “us” meaning His children, believers – He had to already have identified us by name. Revelation 13:8 refers to the “Lamb’s Book of Life” which was available before the foundation of the world. Writing names in a book, however God did that in the eternal, heavenly realm is an activity involving information. We are not told how much planning God did of the created order before He began actually created matter, energy, time, and space but it seems likely He did some. Even before matter, energy, time, and space were actually present God had already laid out their boundaries, how they would function, how they would relate to each other, etc. All that involves the use of information.
VK: This is one of those lines of reasoning that starts to give you headaches.
RD: Well, we might think of them as “holy headaches.” We are using our brains to try to see our God at the time He was forming our universe.
VK: Holy maybe but headaches, nonetheless. But I see what you’re saying. God was using information in His eternal realm even before He began using information in His own creative activity. In Job, chapter 38, verses 4 through 7, God asks Job:
Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
God asks Job who marked off the dimensions of the earth’s foundation. The question is rhetorical but nevertheless it involves the clear use of some kind of information. God’s reference to dimensions, measuring lines, cornerstones all call to mind that God knew the answers but Job did not. Job could not. God had the information that Job lacked. But God clearly had “information.”
RD: Exactly. And God used that information – as my definition points out – “to impose order and enable life.” There is a certain sense, then, that information is a feature of both the spiritual realm and the physical realm. Last time we talked about the fact that information is non-material, or speaking precisely, information is massless. But we were clear that information was different from other massless parts of the physical universe. Photons are massless but they can be generated by matter and interact with matter. Information is neither generated by matter nor does it interact with matter. We use matter and energy to transmit, receive, and store information but the information itself is indifferent to, and unaffected by, the matter and energy employed. A chemical formula remains the same whether it is sent via email, mailed via a postcard, carved on a wax tablet, embossed in Braille dots, or sent using sign language. The matter and energy used to communicate the information do not generate the information and do not contain or constrain the information.
VK: But what you’re saying is that the “non-material” attribute of information does not make it automatically a part of the spiritual realm. Information is still quite real in the physical universe. But now you are saying that information appears to be the one part of the physical universe that was also available in the spiritual realm because God was clearly using information even before He created the physical universe. Yikes. Like we said last time, “information is a tricky thing.”
RD: Yes. It might be reasonable to think of information as the one component of God’s eternal realm that He imparted into the physical realm. But of course God couldn’t do that if God didn’t possess information. And since God possesses information God is also the source of information – all information. Nothing exists apart or separate from God. So, my definition points out that information is one expression of God’s innate omniscience. Omniscience, of course, means all-knowing. We sometimes think that means that God knows everything about the physical creation and us. And He does. But God’s knowledge doesn’t stop there. God not only knows everything that is known about the physical world but also the spiritual world.
VK: God knows the names of all the angels. God knows where they are in space and time or where they are if they are presently in the spiritual realm. God knows the names and locations of the demons currently confined in the abyss that Jude refers to in Jude, verse 6. The book of Jude is only one chapter so we only need the verse number. What you’re saying is that God not only knows everything about everything that exists, God knows everything about anything that could exist. God knows everything that can be known not just what might be known about this creation. That’s what omniscience really means.
RD: Yes. And as a part of His “knowing” God uses information. Though no human knows how the three Persons of the Trinity communicate with one another, we know that they do communicate. In that sense they employ information. The point of all this is that when we begin to ponder the role of information within the physical universe we begin to see that information is not confined to the physical universe. It is not. In that sense information may be distinguished from the other components of the physical universe: matter, energy, time, and space. In a poetic sense we might say that information pierces the veil that separates time and eternity. In doing so, it points to the fact that there is a need for an origin for this rather unique component of the created order.
VK: God creates all information. God uses information for whatever purposes His sovereign will wants. God was doing that before he laid the foundation of our world or put the sun and moon in their place. And when God chose to create a creature that would bear His image, man, one attribute that God communicated to that creature was the ability to recognize and employ information.
RD: Yes. The big reason we are undertaking this series on information is not just to have a philosophical discussion about information but to point out that information points undeniably to existence of the God of the Bible. As we’ve been discussing information is always the product of intelligence. So, if information is present as a component of the observable universe that means that intelligence must be also. Let’s say this a little differently. Our contemporary culture views the universe as being a construct composed of matter, energy, time, and space. The most radical among us say that that is all that is present anywhere and by doing so they are trying to exclude the possibility of God’s existence as a reasonable proposition.
VK: But God refuses to be excluded doesn’t He? You don’t have to be a poet to perceive that God left His fingerprints all over creation. Psalm 19, verses 1 and 2 famously say, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.” Declaration, proclamation, revealing knowledge – those are all forms of communicating information. God designed this universe in such a way that His omnipotence would be revealed by the size and scope of the universe. But He also designed in such a way that our ability to understand that even the physical universe contains non-material components point to His omniscience.
RD: Yes. We frequently mention the fact that not only do logic, reason, and evidence – and science - affirm God’s existence but the notion that God doesn’t exist always runs into irreconcilable conflicts and logical fallacies. This discussion of information is simply pointing to another one of those conflicts and fallacies. The universe as we see it around us contains, and must contain, information. So, we may be absolutely sure that when the skeptics and atheists tell us that God can’t be real we can’t see or touch Him they are wrong. The skeptics automatically assume that the material portion of the universe gives rise to such non-material phenomena such as information. But that makes no sense at all. How can atoms and molecules, electricity and heat create the very awareness that we possess that atoms and molecules, electricity and heat exist.
VK: What people need to recognize is that the observable universe goes beyond the material. Yet, that very fact is rarely acknowledged in so-called scientific discussions. In all the discussions about the Big Bang and evolution you never hear anyone go beyond theories about how matter and energy behave. Conventional science wants to confine the universe to the material elements because that’s all that they can claim jurisdiction over. But real science simply follows the evidence where ever it leads. And the evidence clearly leads to the fact that even the physical universe gives testimony that limiting our understanding of reality to matter, energy, time, and space is neither sound science or good logic. And next time we’re going to see that a careful examination of information shows that it is possible to formulate “laws of information” that closely resemble other natural laws with which we’re more familiar – like gravitation, electricity, or thermodynamics.
RD: Yep. The universe we see around us is more than just matter, energy, time, and space. I sometimes ask people what I call a “trick question.” The question is whether physics plus chemistry can produce biology. That’s the notion that undergirds the entire idea of evolution. The basic idea is that some chemical components eons ago randomly collided with each other. There was an energy source, though no one knows quite what it was, that somehow activated the chemical elements and voila – life started. The question confuses most people – not because they don’t understand it but because thinking about it points out the error of evolution. Chemistry plus physics do not equal biology. They can’t. Chemistry plus physics plus information equals biology. And information points to intelligence. And that’s the idea that materialists can’t stand. Matter and energy are material components of the universe and the space-time continuum defines the boundaries within which matter and energy interact. But, at a bare minimum, those four components by themselves could never give rise to life, even if they could somehow explain all of the inanimate elements of the universe.
VK: So, again, the big idea that we are discussing is that information is another line of evidence that proves that if God did not exist the universe could not appear as we see it. Information is non-material and information always exhibits order, organization, specificity, and purpose. And those things require intelligence. Well, our thought-provoking journey continues. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer of praise that those who do not yet know Christ as their savior will be brought to saving faith in Him. He set the cosmos into motion, established a home on the earth for His people, and continues to prepare them for an eternity with Him in heaven.
---- PRAYER FOR THE SPIRITUALLY LOST
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the Good News Translation)
Genesis, Chapter 1, verses 3 through 5, New International Version
Laws of information 1 (creation.com)
Laws of information 2 (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)

Episode 195 – Eternal Information – Part 3 – Laws of Information
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
[Job] Do you know the laws that govern the heavens, and can you make them rule the earth?”
Job, Chapter 38, verse 33, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re very grateful that you are joining us on Anchored by Truth as we continue the series which we are calling “Eternal Information.” We wanted to do this series for one simple reason – to increase our listeners’ confidence in the Bible and in God. Today in the studio we have RD who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why do you believe that it is so important to help our listeners develop increased confidence in God and in the Bible?
RD: Well, that’s a very good question. But before I answer it I’d also like to thank everyone joining us on Anchored by Truth today. 4 or 5 decades ago this kind of series might not have been necessary. In those days there was a far more widespread acceptance that God was real and that the Bible was God’s word. But those two ideas have been under constant attack during those decades. Today, it’s not uncommon to run into people who not only don’t believe in the Bible but who don’t even believe that God exists. Our culture has systematically removed God not just from educational settings and our public institutions but also from the public square. Part of what has permitted this to go on, largely unchecked, is the idea that belief in the God of the Bible is a sort-of remnant from a time when superstition reigned because people had not yet been enlightened by science. All that, of course, is nonsense but the trends have continued because individual Christians largely lost their ability to defend their faith from the standpoint of logic and reason.
VK: As you say during the last several decades the slogan “you have faith but I have science” has come to be pervasive in our culture. We constantly point out on Anchored by Truth that this idea, as popular and widespread as it is, has no basis in reason or science. The Christian faith is a faith of facts. It is based on both historical and scientific realities. And what the world calls science – such as the General Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory - do not nearly possess as much support from empirical observation as is widely believed. We have an entire series called “10 Facts Every Christian Needs to Know” that addresses many of the ideas that are supposedly scientific but, in fact, are in conflict with real science.
RD: Exactly right. And the concept of information is one more area of genuine science that points squarely to the need for, and existence of, God. As we have been discussing in our first two episodes in this series the more we examine the concept of information we see that it is impossible to reasonably account for the existence of information if we do not acknowledge a source for intelligence that is outside matter, energy, time, and space.
VK: Yet matter, energy, time, and space are all that atheists and those radically secular scientists have to work with. Atheists and radical secularists not only won’t consider the possibility of God existing, they rule Him out by the very way in which they try to define science. They attempt to confine science to the naturalistic elements which they can see, touch, or measure. God is, of course, supernatural. So, they attempt to limit science to the natural world because by doing so they can dismiss God by saying that, even if He existed, His existence cannot be verified.
RD: Yes. By confining science to the so-called “natural world” they think they can erect a wall that keeps them safe on the inside while God must remain in an unseen and unknown realm. This is the height of silliness, of course. God most certainly is not and cannot be made prisoner of any human idea. But these radical secularists aren’t even consistent about applying their own rules. Atheists and secularists will say that because we can’t perceive God with our five senses we must doubt His existence. Yet those same people will proclaim that “dark matter” comprises 85% of the mass of the universe even though it cannot be seen and it does not interact with electromagnetic fields. It is supposedly “dark” because it cannot be detected. Yet they do not doubt its existence because its presence is needed for the math of the Big Bang and other astronomical phenomena to work.
VK: In other words they say “dark matter” must exist because we detect certain effects that would be impossible without its existence. But when Christians say that we can be sure that God exists because we can see His effects within the visible cosmos they reject that line of reasoning. In their way of thinking dark matter is unseen but can known by its effects. By contrast, God is unseen but cannot be known by the effects that His presence would explain. It does seem very much like they have substituted “dark matter” for God. The secularists accuse Christians of inserting “God into the gaps.” In other words, they tell us we resort to God when we can’t explain all the details. But that is exactly what they have done with dark matter. Rather than put God in the gravitational gap that is necessary to explain star formation they have inserted dark matter.
RD: Exactly right. The visible universe consists of matter, energy, time, and space and science has discovered much about how those four components relate to each other. The reason we have been able to do that is because God is a God of logic and order so when He created the universe He imparted His sense of order into His creation. This idea animated many of the founders of contemporary scientific disciplines such as astronomy and chemistry.
VK: For example, Johannes Kepler’s gave us the three laws of planetary motion, which describe the way planets move around the sun. They were named after Kepler who lived from 1571 through 1630 and who discovered them. Kepler was a devout Lutheran and biblical creationist. Kepler also gave us the famous phrase that science is “thinking God’s thoughts after him.” Isaac Newton who lived from 1643 until 1727 and who is often regarded as the most influential scientist of all time. He explained the cause of Kepler’s laws in what are known as ‘Newton’s three laws of motion’ and his theory of universal gravitation—the law of gravity. In these he showed that the heavens obey the same laws of motion as the earth. Newton also has the fundamental unit of force named after him—the newton. Newton was a biblical creationist, who wrote far more on the Bible and theology than he ever did on science.
RD: And Robert Boyle (1627–1691) is known as the father of modern chemistry. In his famous book, The Skeptical Chymist, Boyle overturned the then popular notion that everything is made up of four elements: fire, water, earth, and air. He redefined the term ‘element’ to give us our modern notion of an element—a substance that cannot be separated into simpler components by chemical methods. He is also known for Boyle’s Law, which states that a gas’s volume increases as its pressure decreases at a constant temperature. Boyle was a generous patron of missionary work, and wrote a number of books defending the Christian faith. He too was a biblical creationist. There are a number of good articles on the Creation Ministries International website that talk about the undeniable links between the founders of many modern scientific disciplines and their Biblical faith.
VK: And that’s a good introduction for what you want to talk about today. We have coined the phrase “natural law” to speak about generalized maxims that tell us how the components of the universe operate and relate to one another. These natural laws include ones such as “Boyle’s Law” or the Law of Gravitation. Natural laws are statements of how parts of “nature” behave. We regard them as being universally applicable. As such, once identified and specified, they enable other work to be done without having to re-determine basic principles of how matter and energy behave. Well, it turns out that there are similar laws that govern the behavior of information. And that is probably a surprise for most people because as we have been talking about in this series information is a non-material component of the universe.
RD: Yes. Dr. Werner Gitt who wrote the book In the Beginning was Information has identified four laws that apply to information. There are two excellent articles on the Creation Ministries International website that describe them. I would recommend the book to anyone who wants to pursue this subject further but the articles provide a great summary also.
VK: So, let’s do a quick review of some of the essential elements that are inherent in “information” that we talked about in our first two episodes in this series. We just mentioned that information is “non-material.” Speaking technically, information is massless. Information is not created by and does not interact with matter, energy, time, or space although we can use matter and energy to transmit, receive, or store information. A chemical formula for apple pie or rocket fuel can be written on the same piece of paper using the same ink. The paper and ink do not create the formula, tell us what is in the formula, or affect the formula in the slightest.
RD: And information contains specified sequences, elements, codes, and symbols. That are arranged or encoded for a specific purpose to produce specific effects. So, in addition to information being non-material another overarching concept that leaps out at us about information is that information is ordered, organized, and specified. We can be certain, then, that information is an expression of intelligence. It has to be. Information cannot be the product of mindless, random, or undirected activity of anything. Organization and randomness are the opposites of each other. Nothing random or chaotic is going to produce a sequence of codes or symbols that it intended to produce a specific effect.
VK: So, all this fits perfectly with what Dr. Gitt’s refers to as the “Scientific Laws of Information.” Dr. Gitt’s first law is “A material entity cannot generate a non-material entity.” This is simply a straightforward expression of the observation that we made above. Or, as Dr. Gitt put it in one of the articles on the CMI website, “In our common experience we observe that an apple tree bears apples, a pear tree yields pears, and a thistle brings forth thistle seeds. Similarly, horses give birth to foals, cows to calves and women to human babies. Likewise, we can observe that something which is itself solely material never creates anything non-material.”
RD: Right. And Dr. Gitt’s second law is that “Universal information is a non-material fundamental entity.” By “universal information” Dr. Gitt is referring to information that possesses five specific attributes or what he calls “levels of information.” The five levels are statistics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, and apobetics. Statistics is simply raw data and counts of things. You can count the number of letters produced by a cat walking across a keyboard but that doesn’t give you any information. The next thing that is necessary for a sequence of letters to produce information is the syntax – the arrangement of the letters into words and the words into phrases, sentences, or something longer. In language there are structural rules that govern those arrangements and that is syntax. Semantics is “meaning.” I can write or say, “The dog waxed a pumpkin …”
VK: “The dog waxed a pumpkin?” Really? That makes even less sense than … well, some of the things you’ve written …”
RD: And that’s the point. The words are all real words and they are correctly arranged according to the rules of syntax for English. But there is no meaning. We can’t make any sense out of the sentence. That’s where semantics comes in. Strings of letters or words – even if they follow rules – don’t necessarily have meaning. Next is pragmatics. Pragmatics refers to action. Our non-sense sentence won’t produce any action but the phrase “put out the fire” hopefully will.
VK: Well, I’d sure rather have someone putting out a fire than have a dog waxing a pumpkin.
RD: And that brings us to the final level or attribute of information: apobetics. Dr. Gitt created this term from the Greek word that means result or consequence. So, apobetics means the goal, purpose, or result. Information serves a purpose. Asking someone to have their “dog wax a pumpkin” won’t do anybody any good, but telling them to put out a fire most certainly will. So, that’s how Dr. Gitt helps us sort between nonsense and information. The cat walking across the keyboard might produce letters on a screen and even the occasional real word but it will not produce what he has carefully labeled “universal information.” And what Dr. Gitt is telling us with his second law is that “universal information” is a fundamental component of the universe in which we live. You can no more have a universe without information than you can one without matter, energy, time, or space.
VK: Dr. Gitt’s third law of universal information is that “universal information cannot be created by statistical processes.” He provides this explanation about this third law.
The grand theory of evolution would gain some empirical support if it could be demonstrated, in a real experiment, that information could arise from matter left to itself without the addition of intelligence. Despite the most intensive worldwide efforts this has never been observed. To date, evolutionary theoreticians have only been able to offer computer simulations that depend upon principles of design and the operation of pre-determined information. These simulations do not correspond to reality because the theoreticians smuggle their own information into the simulations.
RD: The point Dr. Gitt is making in this third law is that there are only two competing possibilities for explaining why the universe appears as it does. The first possibility is that an all-knowing, all-powerful self-existent Being made the universe and everything in it. The second possibility is that the universe is self-existent despite the fact that, at a minimum, the laws of thermodynamics tell us that it isn’t. And further that the matter, energy, time, and space of this self-existent universe not only happened to produce rocks, planets and stars – as remarkable as that would be, it also produced living creatures. And those living creatures exhibit certain characteristics among them not just the ability to reproduce but also the ability to carry out purposeful activities. This second idea says that living creatures randomly arose from non-living bits of matter (atoms and molecules) that chaotically collided in such a way that one day several thousands of millions of them alighted in a collective that started reproducing itself. That collective of “self-replicating” molecules had random but fortuitous mutations that turned the 500,000 base pairs of DNA in the simplest self-reproducing biological entity into a creature that has 3 Billion base pairs in its DNA. And that DNA is present in over 35 trillion cells so exquisitely organized that this final collection of molecules is then able to determine, intelligently, that the whole process started randomly.
VK: Well, when you put it that way the whole idea of evolution does start to sound a bit preposterous. So, Dr. Gitt then moves from the third law of universal information to what is at this point a self-evident fourth law: “Universal information can only be produced by an intelligent sender.” It is here that the Merriam Webster online dictionary’s definition of information becomes so potent. The second definition that Merriam Webster provides for information says that “information is the attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something (such as nucleotides in DNA or binary digits in a computer program) that produce specific effects.”
RD: Yes. The fourth law of universal information as Dr. Gitt has framed it simply notes the obvious. Information is not present unless there is a sequence of characters that have been arranged according to specified structural rules and that sequence then contains significance, the possibility for meaningful action, to accomplish a result. Universal information demands the presence of an intelligent sender. And even Merriam Webster recognizes that the nucleotides in DNA are one form of information.
VK: Therefore, there is a sound, scientific basis for noting that DNA, which contains information, must represent the activity of an intelligent Being who placed the information in the DNA. When you follow the line of reasoning the conclusion is obvious but that is certainly not anything that you hear in biology classes or science classes.
RD: And that’s one of the big issues we want to point out in this series. Science should be about the pursuit of truth regardless of where that pursuit leads. And as the line of reasoning we’ve used above the existence of information points to the existence of God. And it does so logically and reasonably. Furthermore, it’s important to note that these laws that apply to information have the same function as other natural laws with which we are more familiar.
VK: What are you thinking about?
RD: Dr. Gitt notes that laws of nature are statements that are “consistently and repeatedly confirmed to be universally true …” and therefore they enjoy the highest level of confidence in science. Laws of nature don’t have any exceptions and they don’t change with time. Laws of nature exist prior to, and are independent of, their discovery and formulation. They are thus universally valid laws. Therefore, they can be applied in unknown situations.
VK: What you’re saying is that no one questions if we drop a ball off a tall building whether that ball will fall to the ground. We know it will because the laws of gravity mean that the large mass of the earth is going to attract the small mass of the ball. We don’t wonder whether the earth will move up to the ball. We have a natural law that tells us what will happen. Same thing with laws of thermodynamics. Heat moves from a hot body to a cold body if they are left alone. That means the temperature will equalize in a closed environment if things are left alone. If we want to keep coffee hot while it sits on our desk we have to put it on a coffee warmer. The coffee warmer will inject heat into the cup because otherwise the coffee will simply cool off. These laws of nature are universally applicable and so they make our world predictable.
RD: And that’s a major takeaway from these laws of information that Dr. Gitt has identified. He didn’t invent these laws. Like other natural laws these laws are simply statements about information behaves within our universe.
VK: But, of course, the laws of information point to something quite important and in their own way staggering. As the fourth law of information says, “universal information can only be produced by an intelligent sender.” But DNA contains information. So, the only way we can account for the fact that DNA contains information is if DNA were created by an “intelligent sender.” It’s simple but profound.
RD: Yes. Despite the claims of the evolutionists life on this earth cannot account for its own existence. The universe cannot account for its own existence. Our examination of information leads us back to God. In fact, a careful and thoughtful examination of other natural laws does the same but that idea has been lost in our day and time. But the relevant point for today is that we cannot deny that information is present in our cosmos. To deny the existence of information would mean you are attempting to communicate using information. It’s a self-defeating exercise.
VK: So, information exists in the universe. No one seriously tries to deny that. Information is present in all living creatures because it is embedded in DNA. We’re going to talk more about that in a future episode in this series. The existence of information in DNA obliterates any attempt to assign DNA and its function to being the product of random and chaotic interaction of matter and energy. Matter and energy may store and transmit information but they do not and cannot create it. Thus, a study of information forms another powerful line of reasoning for the existence of God. In that sense information is part of an effective apologetic.
RD: Yes. The nature of the physical universe itself points us to a power that must lie beyond the universe. Information is another one of the many attributes of the universe that supports that basic line of reasoning. It forms another and very powerful argument for the existence of God. That’s the big reason we opened with that scripture from Job. Notice in the scripture God says to Job, “Do you know the laws that govern the heavens, and can you make them rule the earth?” In pointing out the error that Job had made God immediately points out that there are “laws” that govern the heavens and the earth. As we’ve been talking about today there are laws that govern matter and energy. Science has recognized that fact for millennia. But we are now discovering that there are laws that govern the non-material portion of the universe which includes information. You can’t have laws without a Law Giver. Laws cannot just spring like fairy sprites out of the ether. Laws reflect the intelligent action of a Being that has both the intelligence to design the law and power to make it. Job had no doubt of God’s existence. He had that much going for Him. Job error was that he thought he was qualified to review God’s management of the universe.
VK: Which he wasn’t – obviously. But today, many people aren’t even on the level where they recognize the necessity for God’s existence. So, in our next episode we’re going to spend some time discussing the strong link between information and other forms of apologetics. Again, the big idea that we are discussing throughout this “Eternal Information” series is that information is another line of evidence that proves that God exists. If God did not exist the universe could not possibly appear as we see it. Information requires intelligence. Even our DNA contains information. That information could only be present if it was created by an all-knowing, all-powerful God. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer that we would all receive illumination from the source of all intelligence and information – the Holy Spirit.
---- PRAYER FOR ILLUMINATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the Contemporary English Version)
Job, Chapter 38, verse 33, Contemporary English Version

Science name creationists
Laws of information 1 (creation.com)
Laws of information 2 (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)
https://www.josh.org/what-is-the-design-argument-for-gods-existence/

Episode 196 – Eternal Information – Part 4 –Information and Apologetics
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
That which you worship, then, even though you do not know it, is what I now proclaim to you. God, who made the world and everything in it …”
Acts, Chapter 17, verses 23 and 24, Good News Translation

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re very grateful that you are joining us on Anchored by Truth as we continue the series which we are calling “Eternal Information.” Like several of the other series that we have done on Anchored by Truth this “Eternal Information” series pertains to a subject that has special importance in our day and time – demonstrating that the Christian faith has a firm basis in reason and evidence. Today in the studio we have RD who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, we spend a lot of time on Anchored by Truth discussing topics that don’t seem to be as relevant to the Christian faith as, say, family relationships, struggles with addiction, or even the wise use of money. Why do you feel led to go into what some may regard as side issues that don’t affect people’s daily lives?
RD: Well, that’s a very good question. But before I answer it I’d also like to thank everyone joining us on Anchored by Truth. The biggest reason I think we need to do series like “Eternal Information” is very simple. We need to return to the reality that the Christian faith isn’t just appealing or helpful – but it is true. We live in what many term a “post-modern” culture. The post-modern culture not only doesn’t believe that the Christian faith is true. The post-modern culture denies the existence of truth altogether. Post-modernism tells us things like “that may be true for you but that’s not true for me.”
VK: You might say that the primary slogan for our post-modern world is that “there is no such thing as absolute truth.” But as we have pointed out in previous episodes the statement “there is no such thing as absolute truth” is self-contradictory. The proponent of the statement wants us accept his proclamation as if it were absolutely true. So, anyone who bases their worldview on that proposition has a house built on intellectual quicksand. It’s not only not stable it’s deadly.
RD: Exactly right. But that mantra, that there is no such thing as absolute truth, surrounds us today and if we don’t begin to reverse the widespread acceptance of that silliness there is little to no chance we can reverse the decline in our culture. The only way we can begin to reclaim virtue for our society is to reclaim the historic reliance that western civilization placed on a Christian worldview and value set. We must start with the truth if we are going to repel the lies we are being told. And the truth is that the Bible is demonstrably the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God.
VK: That word “demonstrable” is important. In our day and time it’s not enough for Christians to just believe the Bible is the Word of God. That’s necessary but it’s not sufficient to impact our culture. The question “how can we be sure God exists” is a reasonable question. And so is the question “how can you be sure the Bible is God’s word.” And 1 Peter 3:15 commands us to be able to give reasonable answers to those questions.
RD: Yes. 1 Peter 3:15 is probably the most commonly cited Bible verse for why Christians need to obtain a least a basic understanding of what is usually termed “apologetics.”
VK: Apologetics is a broad umbrella term for the reason we thought this series about information is important. Apologetics can broadly be defined as “a defense for our faith.” Apologetics comes from a compound Greek word. Greek, like English, has compound words made of two or more other words. In this case the Greek words are apo, primarily used to mean “from;” and logos, primarily meaning, in its most generic sense, “word.” Logos is also commonly used in an expanded way to mean “reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, and calculating.” The Greek philosopher Heraclitus [HAIR-AH-KLEYE-TUS] first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. The Apostle John’s used that same word logos in John 1:1 when John said, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”
RD: Right. So, on this episode of Anchored by Truth I wanted to just spend a little more time making sure that we connect the concept of information with this whole notion of the “defense of the Christian Faith.” So, one issue I would like to deal with right away is the whole notion that apologetics is really not necessary. We often say that God is the only One who can change a human heart. If that’s true then many people don’t see a need for us humans to actually try to defend the faith. After all, if conversion is up to God all we should have to do is just tell people about God and Jesus and that should be enough.
VK: And some Christians would say that in some of the best known verses about sharing the gospel there is no mention of apologetics. Romans, chapter 10, verses 14 and 15 say, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent?” That’s from the New International Version. Those verses clearly talk about us sending and preaching so others can hear and believe but they don’t say anything about “defending the faith.”
RD: True enough, but those verses are part of a larger discussion by the Apostle Paul about the difference between the Jews believing they can be saved by the law as opposed to being saved by faith in Jesus. The larger point that Paul was making was that Paul’s people the Jews were zealous in wanting to know God but they had drifted into thinking that a zeal for the law was sufficient for God to accept them. Paul was trying to clarify that no amount of zealousness for the law was sufficient to make us acceptable to God. To be saved by the law we would have to keep the law perfectly.
VK: Which no human being apart from Jesus has ever done, or could do.
RD: Right. No human being can be saved by our own works because none of us can keep the law perfectly. Jesus did keep the law perfectly which qualified Him to be a fit representative for those of us who can’t. So, the point Paul was making when he talked about sending and preaching was that all believers have a responsibility to share our faith with others. In those verses from Romans, Paul was describing the need for us to “preach” but he was not prescribing the content of our preaching. Elsewhere, as in Acts chapter 17 shows very clearly that he used logic and reason in his own preaching. In talking to the assembly on the Areopagus he began his message with an appeal for the Athenians to think about “The God who made the world and everything in it…” In effect Paul was using a form of what is often termed the cosmological argument.
VK: Wikipedia defines the cosmological argument as “… an argument which claims that the existence of God can be inferred from facts concerning causation, explanation, change, motion, contingency, dependency, or finitude with respect to the universe or some totality of objects.” So, in slightly different words the cosmological argument is an argument based on the existence of the cosmos.
RD: Yes. The cosmological argument is one form of what is sometimes termed “classical apologetics.” And I think it is likely the most common form of apologetic argument since it so easy to understand and it begins with a starting point that people have to agree with. We exist. The universe exists. Careful observations about the universe such as the Laws of Thermodynamics tell us the universe is not eternal. Basic reason tells us that anything that is not eternal cannot account for its own existence. Anything that is self-existent, that is which possesses the power of existence unto and all by itself, would have to be eternal because a self-existent entity cannot go out of existence. Since the universe cannot provide an explanation for its own existence, it is reasonable to go looking for an explanation for the reason the universe exists outside of the universe. At any rate, the point is that the Apostle Paul was clearly a skilled apologist and he used apologetics in his own preaching. So, in those verses from Romans that you cited Paul was not dismissing the need for apologetics. He was simply stressing the need for us to be active in spreading the gospel to bring salvation to as many people as possible. In Romans Paul was talking about the necessity for evangelism but not the content of evangelism.
VK: So, in this series, and in many of the others that we’ve done on Anchored by Truth, we are discussing the content of the evangelistic message. And the point we are making is that good apologetics should be one component of an evangelistic message. Evangelism cannot be limited to apologetics. Apologetics is primarily aimed at the mind. But good evangelism also has to address the needs of the heart. In some ways the heart’s needs are more urgent for most people. So, we must always be prepared to address those as well. People need to know that Jesus brings forgiveness of sins because without that people have no effective way of dealing with the guilt that we all feel. People need to know that Jesus loves them. The desire to be cherished and valued is basic to all human beings. And people need to know that God wants them to be included in His family. People need to know that they belong. All those and more are heart needs. And we certainly don’t want to minimize their importance. But just as it is important to address the heart needs we must also not forget about the head.
RD: Exactly. The church must address the whole person just as Jesus commanded in Mark 12:30 where he told his listeners that they must, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” Jesus wasn’t trying to take an inventory of human anatomy and physiology there. He was telling his listeners that they had to devote all of themselves to God.
VK: After all, God devoted all of Himself to us when the 2nd person of the Trinity took on a human body and then sacrificed Himself for us.
RD: Yes. So, God gave His all to us and we must give our all to Him. It’s important to note that in his admonition Jesus included a reference to the “mind” as well as to the heart, soul, and strength. In looking at apologetic approaches that’s what we are doing. And that’s where I think that this discussion of information becomes valuable. I see it as a supplement to many of the other approaches that have been used throughout church history.
VK: I see where you’re going with this. There are at least three apologetic arguments that are termed classical apologetics. The cosmological argument is one of those. As you’ve said the cosmological argument is possibly the best known and easiest to understand. But there is also the teleological [TEAL-EE-AH-LODGE-EH-KAL] argument. The teleological argument is an argument based on design or purpose. The teleological argument demonstrates the existence of God by beginning with the observation of purpose in nature. The teleological argument reasons that design cannot exist without a Designer. And classical apologetics also includes what is called the ontological [ON-TOE-LODGE-EH-KAL] argument. But I’m not even going to attempt to explain that.
RD: Yeah. I don’t blame you. The ontological argument is probably the most esoteric of the classical arguments. Ontology is the study of “being.” If something exists it is sometimes said to have “ontological status.” I think the easiest way to think about ontology is to just distinguish between the real and the imaginary. So, the ontological argument is based on the idea that anything that is real is better than something that is imaginary.
VK: I think there are some people in the movie business that might disagree with you.
RD: True. But even movie makers make real movies. An imaginary movie might be great but it doesn’t sell any tickets. And that’s the essential idea behind the ontological argument. We can conceive of a perfect being. Now our individual ideas of the perfect being might vary a bit but we can all conceive of a perfect being. But if that perfect being were only imaginary it wouldn’t be nearly as good as a real perfect being. Furthermore, it is obvious that all human beings as well as every other living creature are dependent beings. We depend on air, water, food, sunlight, etc. for our existence. The same thing is true for inanimate structures like stars. They depend on the availability of fuel to continue to burn. Well, there must be an ultimate source which supplies what all those dependent entities need to maintain their existence. That Something or Someone must be completely independent of need. Philosophers refer to that entity as a Necessary Being. That Necessary Being then would be perfect because it (He) would be able to provide for the existence of everything else. So, the ontological argument essentially recognizes that that Necessary Being is the Perfect Being that we all conceive of. And again, an imaginary perfect being would not have any ontological status so it couldn’t supply the needs of anything. There have been many different formulations of the ontological argument down through the years and they can get pretty esoteric. If someone wants to look further I would suggest they look an Anselm, Descartes, or more recently the American philosopher, Alvin Plantinga.
VK: As you said, that’s all pretty esoteric.
RD: But it does point out something important. Despite the claims of the evolutionists life on this earth cannot account for its own existence. The universe cannot account for its own existence. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics tells us that someday the universe will burn itself out. And even those people who believe in the Big Bang have no explanation for how the original singularity came into existence. So, they usually resort to saying things like, “the laws of physics tell us how something can come from nothing.” Well, no they don’t. Because if there was ever time when nothing existed there wouldn’t have been any “laws of physics.” And that’s the problem with all explanations for existence that attempt to exclude God. They always wind up in a place where they have unanswered questions and their advocates tell us that we just have to live with those questions.
VK: And therein lies the role for apologetics. Apologetics leads us through the questions and ultimately supplies the answers to those questions that can’t come from anywhere else. Now we can live our whole lives and never ask the questions. Or we can live our lives and simply suppress our desire for the answers. But ultimately neither one of those approaches satisfies us. God built human beings with an innate curiosity because that curiosity will always lead us back to our need for Him.
RD: I agree. And that is what our examination of information does. It leads us back to God. As we talked about in our first two episodes in this series, information is a non-material component of the created order that is not generated by, dependent upon, or impacted by matter, energy, time, or space. Because information is non-material and is unaffected by matter or energy it is logically impossible to attribute the presence of information to matter or energy. But that’s all atheists or anyone who denies the existence of God has to work with. For them they’re surrounded only by physical phenomena so they must find some way to attribute everything that they come across in their experience to an origin in matter or energy. In a previous episode we saw that there are actually laws of information that act exactly like other natural laws with which we’re more familiar like the law of gravity or the Laws of Thermodynamics. But these other natural laws can be framed in terms of matter and energy. Information cannot.
VK: So, the atheist is now stuck with a conundrum. How can material phenomena produce a non-material phenomenon that can describe the material but remain unaffected by the material? For Christians, and even other theists, the conundrum doesn’t exist. God produced the cosmos ex nihilo – from nothing other than his own ineffable power.
RD: Yes. The nature of the physical universe itself points us to a power that must lie beyond the universe. Information is another one of the many attributes of the universe that supports that basic line of reasoning. In that sense it forms another and very powerful argument for the existence of God.
VK: Which is what all apologetic approaches do. But that does not mean that all apologetic approaches are equal – or equally suitable for use in evangelistic settings. And we haven’t touched on all the apologetic arguments that are out there. We’ve only touched on a few.
RD: Yep. Besides the cosmological, teleological, and ontological arguments – which are considered “classical apologetics” there are people who favor a moral argument. Others prefer a historical approach to demonstrating God’s necessary existence.
VK: The moral argument was used by CS Lewis in his classic work Mere Christianity. It essentially says that we all feel the presence of certain obligations that should govern our behavior – moral laws if you will. But the existence of a law requires a Law Giver. Historical apologetics points to events in world history, such as the resurrection, as evidence that the God of the Bible is actively involved in our world and its affairs. For instance, regarding evidence for the historicity of the resurrection, British historian, A. N. Sherwin-White has written that “For Acts, the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. … any attempt to reject its basic historicity, even in matters of detail, must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long taken it for granted…” Many other historians have come to similar conclusions about parts of the Bible as diverse as Isaiah, Daniel, Kings, and Chronicles.
RD: Yes. And there are still other forms of apologetics such as pre-suppositional apologetics and transcendental apologetics that we don’t have the time or need to cover. But all apologetic approaches share something in common. They start with an observation about the universe or world history that can’t be reasonably denied. Then they proceed to look for an explanation of the attribute or phenomenon they have observed. Inevitably they find that a satisfactory explanation cannot be contained within the four corners of the visible universe. So, as we have said, we can simply throw up our hands at that point and proclaim that there is no possible explanation or we can follow the considerable affirmative evidence, such as the reliability of scripture that points to the existence of God.
VK: Apologetics is a little like the classic murder mystery where the murder was seemingly committed in a locked room where there is no immediate evidence of any way the murderer could have entered or left. Then the clever detective arrives and finds that there’s a previously unknown, hidden panel that they discovered by a careful analysis of the room’s dimensions. Or there’s a bit of wax on the floor that shows where the window latch dropped back into place after the murderer left through the window. Or a scratch on floor shows that the key on the inside was really on the outside when the door was locked. The detective always finds the clue overlooked by everyone else to divine the truth.
RD: Yep. Except that in this case the evidence isn’t hard to discern. It’s out there in plain sight for everyone to see. It has to be. If God had hidden evidence of himself people might have a legitimate excuse for their unbelief. But they don’t. Romans, chapter 1, verses 18 through 20 say, “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
VK: And Psalm 19, verses 1 and 2 say, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.”
RD: So, as in your detective example, the universe contains clues, more than clues really, that point to the fact that there is a God who made everything, sustains everything, and governs everything. Information is one more phenomenon within creation that points out that the universe cannot be explained simply by its material elements – matter, energy, time, and space. The universe exhibits design in its smallest elements such as the atom to its largest structures such as galaxies. Design needs a Designer. The universe needed a power source to get it going because it is steadily running out of power. The laws of thermodynamics tell us that. Life would not exist at all if DNA did not contain an embedded program that tells the various base pairs, genes, and motors how to operate to both operate and replicate. The program embedded within DNA is another form of information. In fact, DNA is most sophisticated data storage and use structure we know about within the universe. But how did that information get into the DNA? The cells’ protein machines can’t explain the information because without DNA the cells wouldn’t know how to make the machines. But without the machines to build the DNA it couldn’t hold, store, or transmit the information. The answer of course is that God created everything, installed the programs, and continues to sustain all that He created. We can accept or reject that conclusion but we can’t avoid the facts that point to it.
VK: So, again, the big idea that we are discussing is that information is another line of evidence that proves that if God did not exist the universe could not appear as we see it. Information is non-material and information always exhibits order, organization, specificity, and purpose. And those things require intelligence. Well, our thought-provoking journey continues. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer that our nation would experience a renewed hunger for the One who formed the universe and who put His presence into both its largest and smallest structures.
---- PRAYER FOR RESTORATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the Good News Translation)
Acts, Chapter 17, verses 23 and 24, Good News Translation

Laws of information 1 (creation.com)
Laws of information 2 (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)
https://www.josh.org/what-is-the-design-argument-for-gods-existence/

Episode 197 – Eternal Information – Part 5 – Living Information
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
I will praise you because I have been remarkably and wondrously made. Your works are wondrous, and I know this very well.
Psalm 139, verse 14, Christian Standard Bible

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Thank you for joining us here today on Anchored by Truth as we continue the series which we are calling “Eternal Information.” Like several of the other series that we have done on Anchored by Truth this “Eternal Information” points out a fundamental truth about the universe we see around us. Everywhere we look the universe exhibits order and design. That is true for the inanimate features of the universe and even more true for living creatures. Today we are going to focus on the undeniable elements of design present in living creatures. In the studio we have RD who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. When we look at the composition of living creatures it’s hard to avoid noticing an amazing level of complexity isn’t it?
RD: Yes, it is. Anyone who has ever contemplated the properties of a living cell for even a moment has to recognize that human beings still do not have the ability to create structures or systems with that level of design finesse. Our most elegant examples of technology and advanced design pale in comparison to the complexity present to every cell on the planet. Yet, the most amazing thing is that some people continue to insist that all of that sophisticated complexity could have arisen by chance. So, today we’re going to do more of an in-depth look at the most amazing information storage medium on the planet – DNA. We’re doing this because we want people to have facts that run directly counter to the assertion that random chance could have produced living creatures.
VK: Well, just as a brief review to set the stage – we have already learned several critical things about information as a fundament component of the created order. Information stands alongside matter, energy, time, and space as a fundamental component that is evident when we make empirical observations about the universe. The difference between information and these other components is that information is non-material. Speaking technically, information is massless. Information is not created by and does not interact with matter, energy, time, or space. We can use matter and energy to transmit, receive, or store information but neither matter nor energy create information. A chemical formula for apple pie or rocket fuel can be written on the same piece of paper using the same ink. The paper and ink do not create the formula, tell us what is in the formula, or affect the formula in the slightest. Thus, information, differs from other massless parts of the universe like photons which are also massless. But photons can be created by matter and energy and do interact with them.
RD: And we have seen during this series that information contains specified sequences, elements, codes, and symbols that are arranged or encoded for a specific purpose to produce specific effects. So, in addition to information being non-material another overarching concept that leaps out at us about information is that information is ordered, organized, and specified. All definitions of information reflect these fundamental attributes.
VK: So, in studying these attributes of information one information scientist, Dr. Werner Gitt’s has formulated four laws that describe how information behaves within the universe. The first law is “A material entity cannot generate a non-material entity.” The second law is that “Universal information is a non-material fundamental entity.” The third law of information is that “universal information cannot be created by statistical processes.” Universal information is simply a way of saying that real information possesses the attributes of order, structure, meaning, and potential action that can produce results. This helps us distinguish information from the kind of nonsense that would be produced by a cat walking on a keyboard. The cat might produce some characters on a computer screen that resemble information, but the letters on the screen won’t have order, purpose, or enable meaningful action to take place.
RD: Exactly right. These first three laws then lead to a fourth law that will be particularly relevant to our discussion today. The fourth law is that “universal information can only be produced by an intelligent sender.” Anything that has order, specificity, and purpose must reflect intelligence. There are many predicable patterns in nature that are regular and repeating like crystal lattices or ripples spreading across a pond – but those patterns don’t convey meaning or purpose. They may be beautiful but they don’t tell anyone who much sugar to put in the pie or where the treasure is buried. This distinction immediately leads us to our subject today. Many people believe that chemistry can explain everything we need to know about how living creatures function, but it can’t.
VK: As Dr. Jonathan Sarfati reminded us when he was a guest on Anchored by Truth, the information stored in DNA cannot be explained by the chemical components of DNA anymore than the chemical components of paper and ink can explain what appears on a printed page. Paper and ink have chemical elements that form them, but it requires intelligence to use that paper and ink to store or transmit information.
RD: Yes. I sometimes ask people a sort-of trick question: “Is biology the product of chemistry and physics?” The answer is clearly no. If chemistry and physics could produce biology we could load some carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen into a vat, provide an energy source like electricity or heat, and “poof” out would come some cells –or at least some organic compounds. But we can’t.
VK: But some people would say we have already done that. Some people are under the impression that scientists have created life from non-living chemicals in laboratories.
RD: Many people are under the misimpression that the famous experiments conducted by Stanley Miller and Harold Urey at the University of Chicago starting in 1953 produced life. They didn’t. Some of the more accurate reporting noted that the Miller-Urey experiments while not producing life did produce organic material. Even this was a considerable overstatement of what Miller-Urey produced. The Miller–Urey experiments involved filling a sealed glass apparatus with the gases that some scientists had speculated were necessary to form life—methane, ammonia and hydrogen. They thought these gases might be similar to the conditions that they thought were in the early atmosphere. They also included water vapor to simulate the ocean). Next, while a heating coil kept the water boiling, they struck the gases in the flask with a high-voltage (60,000 volts) tungsten spark-discharge device to simulate lightning. Below this was a water-cooled condenser that cooled and condensed the mixture, allowing it to fall into a water trap below.
VK: Well, what did they get out of their experiment and why was it so widely regarded as an evolutionary breakthrough?
RD: Within a few days, the water and gas mix produced a pink stain on the sides of the flask trap. As the experiment progressed and the chemical products accumulated, the stain turned deep red, then muddy. After a week, the researchers analyzed the substances in the water trap used to collect the reaction products. The dominant solid material was an insoluble toxic carcinogenic mixture called best referred to as tar or resin. Tar or resin a common product that results from organic reactions, including burning tobacco. This tar was analyzed. What Miller and Urey were looking for was amino acids.
VK: Why were they looking for amino acids?
RD: The basic structure of all life on earth, whether plant or animal, is a cell. Some creatures like bacteria are only a single cell. Human beings contain over 35 trillion cells. Regardless of the number all life on earth is cellular based. Cells are composed of permeable membranes that encase the components of the cell that actually carry on the business of life. Those components include protein “machines” and other things like nucleic acids. The most famous nucleic acid is, of course, deoxyribonucleic acid, or DNA. The proteins that make life possible are built from amino acids. Amino acids are small organic compounds consisting of 10 to 20 atoms. There are hundreds of known amino acids but only 20 of those are used by living creatures.
VK: So, did they find any amino acids?
RD: They didn’t find any amino acids on their first attempt, so Miller modified the experiment and tried again. In time, trace amounts of several of the simplest biologically useful amino acids were formed—mostly glycine and alanine – but the yields were extremely small. Even Miller admitted at the time “The total yield was small for the energy expended.” After hundreds of replications and modifications using techniques similar to those employed in the original Miller–Urey experiments, scientists have only been able to produce tiny amounts of less than half of the 20 amino acids required for life. The other amino acids require much more complex synthesis conditions. And without all 20 amino acids available as a set most known protein types cannot be produced.
VK: That would seem to be a big problem. But there were other very significant problems weren’t there?
RD: Yes. There was a huge problem with the material that was produced. Chemists divide amino acids into levorotary and dextrorotary. Levorotary or dextrorotary refer to the “chirality” of the molecule - in simple terms whether the molecule is “left handed” or “right handed.” The amino acids of all living forms are levorotary or left-handed. As organic chemist A.E. Wilder-Smith has noted “If even very small amounts of … the dextrorotary type are present, proteins of a different three dimensional structure are formed, which are unsuitable for life’s metabolism.”
VK: In other words, the presence of right-handed amino acids can be lethal. So, did the Urey-Miller experiments ever produce pure left-handed amino acids?
RD: No. Nor have any similar experiments since produced pure left-handed amino acids. They always produce a combination of the two kinds of amino acids which chemists call a “racemate.” Usually, the proportion produced in these kinds of experiments is what you’d expect – about 50-50. So, this points out one of big failures of the Urey-Miller experiments to be helpful to the idea that living cells could have been produced randomly. Not only didn’t the experiments produce anything that was “alive” – despite all the media hype, they didn’t even produce the kind of building blocks with which real cells are made.
VK: And Urey himself acknowledged this problem. He was once asked how life could have formed spontaneously when living creatures require left-handed amino acids but the lab experiments like his only produce mixtures. His reply was, “Well, I have worried about that a great deal and it is a very important question … and I don’t know the answer to it.” Moreover, that’s just the beginning of the problems pointed out by their experiments. The Urey-Miller experiments used an “atmosphere” that was devoid of oxygen – what is commonly referred to as a “reducing atmosphere.” But the earliest known rocks, even according to the long age conventional theories, all show signs of oxidation. Rust is one common form of oxidation with which we’re all familiar. The presence of oxygen in the early earth atmosphere would be a real problem because oxidation would break down any early organic compounds faster than they could be created.
RD: So, many scientists today are trying to explain the origin of life by positing that it occurred near deep sea ocean vents. But for life to form water vapor, ammonia, carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and methane must be present to produce the amino acids. Those amino acids must then combine spontaneously into long chains called polypeptides. But polypeptide synthesis won’t take place in the presence of excess water. Excess water would break down the polypeptides into the component amino acids. So, the appeal to life originating near deep ocean vents comes with a problem that is really unsolvable.
VK: The point about all of this is that contrary to widespread public opinion scientists have never “created life in a test tube.” Some surveys have found that as much as 75% of the general public believes they have. Further, scientists have never even produced the kind of amino acids living creatures need simply by shooting an energy source through a mixture of chemical elements, even when they preselect for elements that form the proteins required by life. Scientists can produce levorotary amino acids but only through very carefully designed synthesis protocols that aren’t anything close to the processes found in nature. So, far from demonstrating that random forces could have generated the components of life the Urey-Miller experiments actually demonstrated the extreme improbability of that happening.
RD: Right. The Urey-Miller experiments were a success – just not a success at showing how easily the components of living creatures can be produced by undirected “natural” processes. The Urey-Miller experiments were a success at demonstrating the extreme improbability of random processes producing the compounds needed by living creatures and the impossibility of those compounds then becoming organized into proteins, nucleic acids, or cells. But even if the Urey-Miller experiments had produced some or most of the necessary amino acids that still wouldn’t have been very helpful to their original aim.
VK: Why not?
RD: Because presumably in designing their experiments Urey-Miller injected a considerable amount of “intelligence,” into their experiments. Said slightly differently Urey-Miller applied a considerable amount of information when they designed and conducted their experiments. Remember on their first trial they didn’t get anything “useful” for life. So, they redesigned the experiment. This is a clear example of them acquiring and using information in an attempt to show that life could have arisen without intelligence or information.
VK: What you’re saying that even if a group of scientists went into a lab, put some chemicals into beakers, provided an energy source, captured any products formed, and then discovered the right kind of amino acids none of that is random. The scientists are the ones picking the chemicals they put in the beaker and they are using information to do that because they already “know the answer.” They already know what chemical elements are present in living creatures and they know the proportions the various elements represent. The scientists already know that all living creatures need a source of energy to sustain their activity, their life. And they have a pretty good idea of what kind of energy must be present. Too much energy living things get fried. Too little energy living creatures die of starvation or freeze to death. Living creatures live within very narrow limits of the type and amounts of energy they need to sustain themselves. But none of that information would be available to an “organic soup” drifting about in a primeval earth being struck by lightning or boiled by volcanic rifts. The absence of information would be fatal – if there was anything living that could die – which there wouldn’t be. Information is the essential component for transforming inanimate chemical elements into living entities.
RD: Yes. Scientists studying living things, then determining the constituent parts of those living things, and then attempting to induce similar things to organize into living things doesn’t demonstrate that life could have arisen randomly. It does the exact opposite. Information and its application were present throughout the process that Urey-Miller attempted to construct. As you just said, Information is an essential component for transforming inanimate chemical elements into living entities. An all-mighty, all-wise God could create the elements He wanted. He did on day one. Then on day three He took some of those elements are organized them in such a way that living things emerged.
VK: You’re referring to Genesis, chapter 1, verses 11 through 13 which read, “Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.” That’s from the New International Version.
RD: Yes. God can create atoms and molecules out of nothing (and he did) because God is infinite in power, wisdom, and sovereignty. God created the atoms and molecules on the first day and then began organizing them into a creation that suited His purposes, including the creation of man on day six. Day three is when he turned those atoms and molecules into the first cells with which He built vegetation. Now, we’re not told expressly when God created the plants that live beneath the seas but it might have been on day three or even day two when the Bible tells us He organized the waters into the seas and the sky. Christians are not left with a dilemma about how hundreds of billions of atoms could all come together at the right place at the right time to make the first living cell. But people who want to leave God out of the arrival of life are.
VK: Well, this is a series about information so let’s do a quick check at some of the places information is present in what we know about the process for creating life. Atheists and radical secularists have to figure out how enough hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, and nitrogen arrived at one place and began forming just the right set of chemical bonds to turn those elements into amino acids. So, the first application of information is what elements are going to comprise living creatures. And those aren’t all of the elements that are contained in living creatures. The human body has 21 separate elements some of them in very tiny amounts. Yet despite their relatively small presence they are necessary for us to live.
RD: Yes. And it’s not sufficient just to have the elements available. Those elements must combine in just the right way to create twenty different forms of amino acids because those amino acids are going to be necessary to form proteins. The next place information is present is in the chemical structure of the amino acids. And just having the 20 different amino acids doesn’t make a cell or even a protein. Proteins are typically comprised of between 100 to 500 acid “blocks” in a chain. But the proteins don’t just exist as long strings dangling around. The protein string is called its primary structure but then all proteins fold into complicated shapes called their tertiary structure. It’s in their tertiary structure that proteins will interact with one another to perform the functions that sustain life.
VK: So, there’s information displayed in how the amino acids are lined up into a particular protein and then, of course, a bunch of free floating proteins doesn’t mean anything is living. Without a permeable cell membrane holding everything together you’d just have a bunch of junk protein. And the cell wall has to be permeable because even though it encloses the cell’s contents energy sustaining materials must come in and waste products must go out. So, there’s more information that describes the membrane’s construction and information that prescribes what energy source is safe for use and what is toxic. And all that is just talking about a single celled organism. We haven’t even begun to think about multi-celled creatures much less mammals and man. There are a great many layers of information necessary to make life, even simple life, possible.
RD: Yep. And even if you can get past all those informational barriers all you’ve done is get life going. Cells need instructions for how to operate and, of course, that’s all contained in DNA – which as we are going to see next time actually operates as a four-dimensional information system all by itself. We might have excused Charles Darwin for thinking that living cells are relatively simple constructs but ever since the biomolecular revolution in the 1950’s that excuse has gone away. James Watson and Francis Crick first discovered the structure of DNA in 1953, almost seven decades ago. Since then we’ve mapped the incredible complexity of life in increasingly fine detail including the human genome. Each new discovery adds to our knowledge of how life works but also adds barriers to the idea that random, chaotic forces could have solved the informational puzzle. To this day, no scientist has ever created “life in a test tube” nor have they even produced even the most basic compounds, the right amino acids, from which living creatures are formed.
VK: So, as you say physics plus chemistry do not equal biology. Physics plus chemistry plus information equals life. You know it’s just a little bit silly to believe that unintelligent and undirected matter and energy could produce life when even the most intelligent scientists that have lived among us have not been able to do it. That’s one of the reasons King David proclaimed we are “fearfully and wonderfully made.” This sounds like a great time to go to prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession because we have all fallen short of the standards that God has prescribed for the creatures made in His image. But we can praise Him that there was One who met those standards and then allow us to rest on His perfect merit so we don’t need to rest on our imperfections.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the Good News Translation)
Acts, Chapter 17, verses 23 and 24, Good News Translation

Why the Miller Urey research argues against abiogenesis (creation.com)
The human genome is amazingly complex (creation.com)
Four Dimensional Genome (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)

Episode 198 – Eternal Information – Part 6 – Living Information
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
Hebrews, chapter 3, verse 4, New International Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Thank you for joining us here today on Anchored by Truth. For several episodes we have been doing a series we call “Eternal Information.” We do series like Eternal Information to help people focus on a foundational truth about the universe we see around us. The universe exhibits order and design. Albert Einstein recognized this simple fact and famously said, “The most incomprehensible thing about the Universe is that it is comprehensible.” Other scientists have noted that the universe displays all the elements that we see in the best manufacturing systems that we have today. The same pieces and parts are used to build structures as diverse as snowflakes, galaxies, stars, and puppy dogs. To help us explore even more about the marvel that is the universe and especially life, today in the studio we have RD. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, the universe is amazing isn’t it?
RD: Yes, it is. The universe is so consistent in how it works that we can analyze the composition of stars that are billions and billions of miles away from our little earth. There is no way we could do that unless we knew that the same constituent parts that make up our sun, our earth, and even our bodies were also present in all the other parts of the universe. And that’s the reason that we wanted to undertake this series on eternal information. Just think about it for a second and you quickly realize that the presence of design requires a designer. The presence of organization requires an organizer. Yet this is the very thing that atheists and radical secularists exclude a priori. Why would they do this? There’s only one reason. It’s not that they don’t realize that God exists. They do. All people do. It’s that they don’t like the implications of acknowledging that existence. Because it would mean they would have to make changes to their lives and worldview.
VK: So, today we want to go more deeply into the order and design that are present in living creatures. We began this discussion last time on Anchored by Truth when we did a high level overview of some of the basic elements of biochemistry. And in that discussion we noted that the basic unit which is present in all living things is a cell. Some cells have a nucleus and some don’t. But all living things are comprised of cells. And cells, despite their tiny size, are exceedingly sophisticated structures. Anyone who has ever contemplated the properties of a living cell for even a moment has to recognize that human beings still do not have the ability to create structures or systems with that level of design finesse. Our most elegant examples of technology and advanced design pale in comparison to the complexity present to every cell on the planet. Yet, the most amazing thing is that some people continue to insist that all of that sophisticated complexity could have arisen by chance. I heard someone say once that its far more likely you could put butter, eggs, sugar, and milk in a bowl, leave it in the sun, and wait for it to turn into a cake than expect the first cell to have come together by chance.
RD: Right. The right ingredients are necessary to make a cake but not sufficient. Making cakes takes information – a recipe. And it takes a chef who will apply the recipe – correctly! And today we’re going to continue to pointing to other evidence that shows the absurdity of believing that random and chaotic activity could generate an integrated structure that has more than 100 billion subordinate parts.
VK: A lot more ingredients than it takes to make a cake …
RD: True dat – and all those ingredients must be present in just the right places and just the right amounts for life to be possible. Today we want to do an in-depth look at the most amazing information storage medium on the planet – DNA. We’re doing this because we want people to have facts that run directly counter to the assertion that random chance could have produced living creatures.
VK: Well, just as a brief review to set the stage – we have already learned several critical things about the biomolecular structure of living things. As you said, the basic structure of all life on earth, whether plant or animal, is a cell. Some creatures like bacteria are only a single cell. Human beings contain over 35 trillion cells. Regardless of the number all life on earth is cellular based. Cells are composed of permeable membranes that encase the components of the cell that actually carry on the business of life. Those components include protein “machines” and nucleic [NU-CLAY-ICK] acids. The most famous nucleic acid is, of course, DNA. Proteins are built from organic compounds called amino acids. Amino acids are small compounds consisting of 10 to 20 atoms. There are hundreds of known amino acids but only 20 of those are used by living creatures.
RD: And DNA is built from compounds called nucleotides [NU-KLEE-O-TIDES]. Nucleotides consist of a sugar, a nitrogen containing base, and a phosphate group. The nucleotides of DNA are linked together through their phosphate group and they differ only in the structure of their nitrogen containing base. Specifically, there are 4 bases that comprise the structure of DNA: adenine [a-duh-neen], guanine [gwaa-neen}, cytosine [sai-tuh-seen], and thymine [thigh-mean]. They are usually abbreviated A, G, C, and T. So, these are the “letters” of the genetic alphabet. For chemical reasons the adenine in DNA tends to form an association with thymine and guanine forms an association with cytosine. And DNA is made up of two long strands – the famous double helix – joined by means of the associations: A with T and C with G. This means that the two strands are complimentary. From a DNA standpoint the simplest form of life that lives independently is a bacterium known as mycoplasma genitalium. It has about 500,000 base pairs in its DNA strand. Human beings by contrast have 3 Billion base pairs in our DNA.
VK: So, DNA even at its simplest is not a simple structure. I think a lot of people are misled by the fact that we are talking about things that are so small they can only be seen by sophisticated microscopes. I think some people associate small size with simplicity. But with respect to DNA that’s not true at all, is it?
RD: No. We must get away from thinking that just because DNA is incredibly small from a visual standpoint that somehow its small size reflects the level of complexity that is represented in its structure. If anything we should marvel that something so small can have so many separate subunits that each has its own place and function. So, today I want to focus on the fact that DNA is a 4 dimensional information storage system. There’s a great article about this on creation.com which is the website for Creation Ministries International. One of the key takeaways from this article, as well as many other articles that are on their website, is that DNA’s information function is not dependent on its chemistry. Just as the chemistry of ink and paper do not determine the information that is present on a printed page, the chemical components that comprise DNA do not determine the messages that it stores and sends.
VK: That’s a pretty radical thought but it was one which Dr. Jonathan Sarfati told us about when he was a guest on Anchored by Truth. Paper and ink have chemical elements that form them, and permit them to be useful to store and communicate information but the pen and ink don’t control the information. It requires intelligence to use that paper and ink to store or transmit information. This is the same thing that occurs with DNA. And it comes as a surprise to most people.
RD: Yes. We are so surrounded by the pseudo-scientific narrative that life arose randomly from inanimate matter that even most Christians are beguiled thinking that our bodies are the product of matter and energy. It can come as a bit of a shock to realize that we are the product of so much more. The way that DNA functions is a perfect example of that. The first level of information that DNA contains is simply the order of the “letters” – the nucleotide base pairs. The first 15 letters of DNA in the human “Y” chromosome are “CTAACCCTAACCCTA.” The entire human genome has been mapped.
VK: Now just about everyone has heard about “genes” and most people know that genes control inherited characteristics. A gene is a small section of DNA that contains the instructions for a specific molecule, usually a protein. The purpose of genes is to store information. Each gene contains the information required to build specific proteins needed in an organism. The human genome contains 20,687 protein-coding genes. Genes come in different forms, called alleles. The genes for blue eyes and brown eyes obviously code for the same characteristic, eye color. But the genes for brown eyes and blue eyes are different. So, they would be alleles.
RD: So, this first level of information is just a sequence of letters. That seems pretty simple. But you start to get a hint of the other levels of information when you realize that we have between 20,000 and 25,000 genes but our bodies produce over 100,000 different proteins. Some estimates are that the human body produces over 300,000 distinct proteins.
VK: Twenty thousand genes seem like a lot but it was actually a much lower number than expected. The low number of genes in the human genome was troubling for several reasons. First, it meant that human beings did not have that many more genes than organisms that were much simpler. Second, it meant we were creating a great many proteins from relatively few genes. Scientist had no idea how this could be done on such a large scale. And third, the complexity of the human genome just kept multiplying the barriers to envisaging how such sophistication could arise by random and chaotic forces.

RD: When science first discovered genes they thought they had discovered the secret that solved the mystery of how one generation passed various traits to another. Scientists initially saw the gene as the master controller that regulates the outward expression of the attributes of an organism. This idea was popularized in Richard Dawkins’ book, The Selfish Gene. But that initial model turned out, as so often happens with God’s creation, to be far too simple. It had become conventional wisdom to say that any characteristics we acquire during our lives cannot be passed to our kids. But we now know that while this idea was partially true, it is an incomplete truth. In fact, there are times when characteristics acquired by a parent are passed to a child and there is now an entire branch of study called “epigenetics” to understand how this happens. But the idea that the outward interactions of an organism with its environment might pass information back to the genome, or even just affects how the genome performs its function was completely rejected for decades. Then came the science of what is now called epigenetics.
VK: The CDC defines epigenetics as the study of how your behaviors and environment can cause changes that affect the way your genes work. Marc Ambler who was on the board of Creation Ministries International said “[Epigenetics] poses a profound challenge to evolution because it suggests that latent genetic information of sorts is sitting in the DNA waiting for a particular environment in order to be switched on or off. It is like information in a book with certain pages stapled together, only to be opened and the information acted upon in certain environmental circumstances. If evolution occurs by natural selection, via the environment culling or conserving the effect of random mutations, how can there possibly be a ‘suite’ of genetic information just waiting there to be switched on by an environment to which the organism has yet to be exposed?”
RD: Yes. Now I just to remind everyone what this discussion is all about. The fact that a single gene may code for more than one protein and that our DNA may be affected by our environment is strongly suggestive of the fact that the first level of information in DNA – the sequence of the letters – does not tell the whole story. At first, after the initial discover of DNA, scientists thought they had the key to whole biological puzzle. The idea was that if we could just “learn the code” – in effect figure out the sequence - we could perform miracles. That’s why scientists petitioned the US government in the 1990’s to fund the sequencing of the human genome. And they did. And after doing so we found out that the sequence of the letters in human DNA was only the beginning of understanding DNA. Because DNA is far more complicated than just its very complex sequence of letters.
VK: So, if the sequence of the letters in DNA is the first level of information, what is the second level?
RD: The second dimension of the genome deals with the way one section of DNA interacts with another section. It’s easy enough to create a visual depiction of the first dimension of DNA. It is essentially just a long sequence of the letters A, C, T, and G. But trying to draw a pictorial representation of the second dimension would create a dizzying array of lines and arrows that connect different parts of the linear string of DNA. The depiction would be so complicated it would be as if you were standing in the midst of a galaxy with beams of light crossing across one another.
VK: Biologist Dr. Robert Carter has said this about the second informational dimension of DNA. “The second dimension deals with things like specificity factors, enhancers, repressors, activators, and transcription factors. These are proteins that are coded in the DNA, but they move to another part of the genome after they are made and turn something on or off. But there are additional things happening in this dimension. During the process of protein manufacturing, a gene is “read” by the cell during a process called transcription. Here, the DNA is copied into a molecule called RNA. The RNA is then translated into a protein. …But in a process called post-transcriptional regulation, the RNA can be inactivated or activated by other factors (like [micro RNAs]) coded elsewhere in the genome.
... One of the greatest mysteries is how only about 22,000 genes can produce more than 300,000 distinct proteins. The answer is that the cell goes through a process called alternate splicing, where the genes are sliced and diced and different parts are used by different cells at different times and under different circumstances to produce the many different proteins. This incredibly complex process is just one part of that second dimension of the genome.”
RD: The complexity the first dimension of DNA helps put to rest the idea that the chemical structure of DNA is what controls DNA’s function within a cell. Well, if the first dimension began the process, the second dimension of information contained within DNA puts a stake in its heart. Simply put, human beings have not been able to create any information systems that have this level of complexity and interactivity. We are well familiar with information systems like written communication that transmit information be reading something from right to left or left to right. But to create an information system where information is not only derived from reading each letter or word in one direction but where that system provides meaningful information connecting every 5th word, 10th word, and 20th word would boggle our minds. Yet even this isn’t the end of the information that resides within DNA. There are still more dimensions.
VK: Dr. Carter has also written that, “The third dimension deals with how the shape of the DNA molecule affects the expression and control of different genes. We have learned that sections of DNA that are buried deep within the coiled-up DNA cannot be activated easily. So genes that are used often are generally easily accessible. Thus, when God wrote out the information in the genome along that one-dimensional strand, He intentionally put things in a certain order so that they would be in the correct place when the DNA was folded into a 3-D shape.”
RD: Yes. Like most components of the cell it would be extremely impractical for the body to store DNA in a linear state. The DNA in a single cell would be about 6 feet long if it were laid out in a straight line. It would be extremely thin but it would stretch for 6 feet. The National Institutes for Health have estimated that the DNA present in a human body would be over 67 Billion miles long if all the strands were laid end to end – that’s the equivalent of 150,000 trips to the moon – and back. To store all that DNA the body coils it in tight coils that fit within the nuclei of the various cells. Therefore, in the human body DNA is found in a 3 dimensional shape not a straight line which would be 2 dimensions. This adds complexity to the issue of how the body can acquire the information stored in the genes that are on the DNA. As Dr. Carter mentioned we now know that the genes that are used most often are stored on the outside of the 3 dimensional structure where they are most easily accessible. Moreover, sometimes as we’ve alluded to above the various genes sometimes operate in cooperation with other genes. Well, we now know that genes that are used together are generally found next to each other in the 3 dimensional storage arrangement even when those genes are found on different chromosomes.
VK: It’s like a homeowner who is organizing his garage. In the garage they may have some items they use in the garden, some that are used for home repairs, some that are needed for the cars and trucks, and maybe some that they only need once a year like the Christmas decorations. A wise homeowner is likely to organize the garage so the garden shears are close to the rakes rather than with the Christmas light strings and nativity set. But it goes without saying that when the homeowner does this it is because the homeowner knows and understands the use of the things they are storing. In putting things away in the garage they are applying information and intelligence. And, in fact, the storage system that is represented in how DNA is stored within a cell is far more complicated that even the storage system used in the largest industrial warehouses.
RD: Exactly. We still need to talk about the 4th dimension of information that is found in DNA but since we’re running out of time I want to give our listeners a very inexact model for DNA’s amazing information system. Imagine that you found a long, thin plastic tube. As you examined the tube you realized that written on the outside in letters that spiraled around the tube was a list of ingredients for an amazing 7 course meal. At the bottom of the tube the final line said “twist this tube 3 times.” After you did so you found out that the letters now gave you all the steps in preparing the ingredients – the chopping, slicing, dicing, grating, etc. Then the final instruction said hold near the stove. And when you did so you found out that certain portions of the letters now gave you precise instructions for the cooking. The last line of illuminated letters now said, “place near the completed dishes.” And when you did that you found out that different letters were now lit up which told you how to garnish, arrange, put on final toppings, and serve. You get the idea. No human technology would permit us to create an information storage system that sophisticated yet we’re asked to believe that random chance built a biological information system that is thousands or millions of times more elegant.
VK: Well, all that has made me a little hungry but it does make the point. We’re familiar with single dimension information systems because that’s what we experience in our daily lives. Probably, with a lot of effort and planning, we might create a single system that has multiple dimensions of information. But those systems certainly wouldn’t run into the billions of letter or symbols that served multiple tasks simultaneously. The sophistication of DNA eludes us even now. The only reasonable explanation for DNA’s relentless display of information sophistication is because it was prepared and created by the Ultimate, Infinite Designer. It’s just a little bit silly to believe that unintelligent and undirected matter and energy could produce DNA when even the most intelligent scientists could not do so. But God could and that’s what our opening scripture from Hebrews tells us. This sounds like a time to go to God I prayer. Since our children are back in school and busily working their way through the academic year, today let’s listen to a prayer for all of them who could benefit from a little divine help with upcoming tests.
---- PRAYER FOR TAKING A TEST
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Hebrews, chapter 3, verse 4, New International Version

The human genome is amazingly complex (creation.com)
Four Dimensional Genome (creation.com)
Splicing and dicing the human genome (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)
Epigenetics challenges neo-Darwinism (creation.com)

Episode 199 – Eternal Information – Part 7 – Living Information 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.
Hebrews, chapter 11, verse 3, New Living Translation

********
VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Thank you for joining us here today on Anchored by Truth. For several episodes we have been doing a series we call “Eternal Information.” We’ve covered a lot of ground so far in this series. For those listening today who may have missed some of the earlier episodes we encourage you to go to our website crystalseabooks.com where you can hear them. And, of course, anyone who just wants to review an episode even if they heard it before can always go to crystalseabooks.com for a review. This series in particular has been one of those series where each episode builds on the material from previous episodes. In the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, would you like to amplify a little more on what I was just talking about – that this series of Anchored by Truth is a series where we are steadily building on what came before?
RD: Sure. But before I do that I would also like to extend my greetings to everyone who is joining us here today. I suspect most listeners are probably like me. When I first came across the concept of information as one more way in which God’s presence in the universe is manifest I was completely unfamiliar with it. Like all listeners, I used information everyday throughout the day. But I never gave any thought about information itself. Information was kind of like air. It was just there. But I never stopped to think about how it got there. Then I came across Dr. Werner Gitt’s book entitled In the Beginning was Information and I had one of those “light bulb” moments. The presence of information requires the presence of intelligence and there is no way we can avoid living in this universe and avoid the fact that it contains information. But to try to communicate all that this concept involves isn’t easy. Unlike some subjects where we connect with them easily digging deeper into how information functions within the universe requires a lot of … well, information.
VK: Studying information requires a lot of information. I’m not sure if that is profound or just redundant …
RD: Probably a little of both. At any rate there are a lot of ideas that are tied up in thinking about how information again assures us that there must be a Designing Mind behind the universe as we know it. So, we began unpacking those ideas one at a time.
VK: Such as the fact that information is an essential component of the universe that we know. Unlike other components with which we are more familiar like matter and energy information stands apart in the way in which it presents itself. Information is non-material. It is not dependent for its existence on matter or energy but matter and energy can be used to transmit, receive, or store it. The same keyboard, wires, and screens can exchange recipes for pies, maps to buried treasure, or diagrams for making bombs. The information doesn’t change the plastic, copper, or silicon in the keyboard or screen. But neither is the plastic, copper, or silicon responsible for the content of the information. These aren’t the kind of ideas we think about everyday.
RD: Right. And those ideas are just the beginning of what we had to undertake. And the specific idea that we have been pursuing for the last couple of episodes of Anchored by Truth is that the presence of information in living creatures is undeniable. A couple of episodes ago we spent some time on the basics of biochemistry and last time we began our dive into the most information storage system on the planet: DNA.
VK: So, today we want to finish that discussion. But just as a brief recap last time we began covering the fact that DNA is actually a four-dimensional information storage system. Just about every information system invented or used by man is one-dimensional. When we transmit information through written text we get the information by reading the text from left to right. And even though there are some writing systems like ancient Hebrew that are read right to left the same observation applies. We get the information by going in one direction. Try to read the same text backward and all you get is gobbledygook. But as we began showing last time DNA doesn’t just store and transmit information in one dimension or in one direction. DNA does so on multiple levels. RD, why don’t you briefly remind us of what we covered when we went over the first three dimensions in which DNA stores information?
RD: And DNA is built from compounds called nucleotides. Nucleotides consist of a sugar, a nitrogen containing base, and a phosphate group. There are 4 bases that comprise the structure of DNA: adenine [a-duh-neen], guanine [gwaa-neen}, cytosine [sai-tuh-seen], and thymine [thigh-mean]. They are usually abbreviated A, G, C, and T. So, these are the “letters” of the genetic alphabet. And DNA is made up of two long strands – the famous double helix – joined by means of the associations: A with T and C with G. This means that the two strands are complimentary. One of the key takeaways about DNA is that DNA’s information function is not dependent on its chemistry. Just as the chemistry of ink and paper do not determine the information that is present on a printed page, the chemical components that comprise DNA do not determine the messages that it stores and sends. So, the first level of information that DNA contains is simply the order of the “letters” – the nucleotide base pairs. The entire human genome has been mapped. So, we know the order of the letters for it. The first 15 letters of DNA in the human “Y” chromosome are “CTAACCCTAACCCTA.”
VK: So, this first level of information is just a sequence of letters. That seems pretty simple. But you start to get a hint of the other levels of information when you realize that we have between 20,000 and 25,000 genes but our bodies produce over 100,000 different proteins. Some estimates are that the human body produces over 300,000 distinct proteins. If the sequence of the letters in DNA is the first level of information, what is the second level?
RD: The second dimension of the genome deals with the way one section of DNA interacts with another section. It’s easy enough to create a visual depiction of the first dimension of DNA. It is essentially just a long sequence of the letters A, C, T, and G. But trying to draw a pictorial representation of the second dimension would be a dizzying array of lines and arrows connecting different parts of the linear string of DNA. At first when scientists discovered DNA and genes they thought they had discovered the key to a lot of biological mysteries. One of the key ideas that emerged into science was the idea that one gene coded for one protein. Proteins are, of course, the molecular machines of life.
VK: But that idea was too simple wasn’t it, especially for higher organisms? As we mentioned earlier the human body produces far more different proteins than we have genes.
RD: Yes. The linear left to right read of DNA coupled with the idea that each gene, essentially a subsection of DNA, coded for one protein turned out to be far too simplistic. For instance, our protein genes are broken up into a series of “exons” (the parts that code for protein) and “introns” (non-coding intervening sequences). To make a protein, the gene is first transcribed into RNA, then the introns are spliced out, the exons are stitched together, and the remainder is translated into protein. That might seem straightforward. But we now know that some proteins are manufactured through a process called “alternate splicing”, where exons from different locations in the genome are combined to create many different proteins. In fact, we have learned that alternate splicing is so pervasive that the definition of the word “gene” as it was originally conceived had just about lost its meaning. The one gene-one enzyme hypothesis turned out to be a gross oversimplification.
VK: Biologist Dr. Robert Carter has said this about the second informational dimension of DNA. “The second dimension deals with things like specificity factors, enhancers, repressors, activators, and transcription factors. These are proteins that are coded in the DNA, but they move to another part of the genome after they are made and turn something on or off. But there are additional things happening in this dimension.” In other words there’s a lot of information that DNA supplies to the body that isn’t tied to a simple left to right reading of the letters. There are connections being made between different sections of the DNA that are also necessary for life.
RD: Yes. As I said last time, trying to pictorially represent the information connections within DNA would be so complicated it would be as if you were standing in the midst of a galaxy with beams of light zinging among the stars. There would be so many beams connecting various stars you wouldn’t be able to count them all. And we still are only talking about the second dimension of DNA that supplies information. The third dimension has to do with how DNA is actually stored within the body. The body doesn’t store DNA as a long string. It couldn’t. The DNA is coiled into a very precise 3-D shape.
VK: Dr. Carter has also written that, “The third dimension [of information] deals with how the shape of the DNA molecule affects the expression and control of different genes. We have learned that sections of DNA that are buried deep within the coiled-up DNA cannot be activated easily. So genes that are used often are generally easily accessible. Thus, when God wrote out the information in the genome along that one-dimensional strand, He intentionally put things in a certain order so that they would be in the correct place when the DNA was folded into a 3-D shape.”
RD: Yes. It would be extremely impractical for the body to store DNA in a linear state. We talked about the amazing fact that the DNA in a single cell would be about 6 feet long if it were laid out in a straight line. It would be extremely thin but it would stretch for 6 feet. The National Institutes for Health have estimated that the DNA present in a human body would be over 67 Billion miles long if all the strands were laid end to end – that’s the equivalent of 150,000 trips to the moon – and back. To store all that DNA the body coils it in tight coils that fit within the nuclei of the various cells. And we now know that genes that are used together are generally found next to each other in the 3 dimensional storage arrangement even when those genes are found on different chromosomes.
VK: Last time we used the example of a homeowner organizing his garage. A wise homeowner is likely to organize the garage so the garden shears are close to the rakes rather than with the Christmas light strings and nativity set. The homeowner does this it is because the homeowner knows and understands the use of the things they are storing. In putting things away in the garage they are applying information and intelligence. So, the first dimension of information storage in DNA is the order of the letters. The second is how various sections of DNA actually act in concert with other sections. And the third is how the DNA functions in its 3-dimensional configuration not just as a linear string.
RD: Exactly. Well our time ran out last time before we could get to the 4th dimension of the information that DNA contains.
VK: Which is …?
RD: Time.
VK: Time?
RD: Time. As incredible as it might seem we now know that the way DNA performs its function changes as time goes by and we know that these changes occur in all the other dimensions. Dr. Carter has written “The shape (3rd dimension), interaction network (2nd dimension), and the sequence of letters (1st dimension) all change. This so far outstrips even our most modern computers that the analogy isn’t even fair anymore.” Dr. Carter gives this example. “We know that different liver cells have different chromosome counts. This is due to the fact that the liver needs lots of copies of certain genes that are involved in metabolism and detoxification. Instead of filling the genome with many copies of these genes, the liver just makes copies of them for its own use. We also know that different brain cells have different number and locations of various transposons.”
VK: Transposons are segments of DNA which are capable of moving within or among chromosomes. Transposons were once thought by evolutionists to be “jumping genes” that were leftovers from ancient viral infections. But they’re not. Transposons are vital for the development of the human brain. In other words, our genome is able to dynamically reprogram itself. As Dr. Carter wrote, “This is something that computer scientists have long struggled with. How can you make a self-modifying code that does not run out of control?”
RD: So, as amazing as the first three dimensions of DNA’s information are in some ways the 4th dimension truly seems like something out of science fiction. As we go through life our DNA reprograms itself to adapt for where we are in life. It’s hard sometimes to remember that we are talking about a group of atoms and molecules that are present in the nucleus of every one of our 30 to 40 trillion cells. Now again, let’s not lose sight of the basic point. The alternate hypothesis that is offered to Biblical creationism is blind and random chance.

VK: Those people who reject the existence of God, and in particular the God of the Bible, must conceive of the world and universe as being composed of matter, energy, time, and space. But no one sees time and space as possessing creative capacity so they are really down to matter and energy. So, their concept for the origin of DNA is that at one point some hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and carbon atoms fortuitously collided and started making some simple organic compounds. Some of these organic compounds ran into each other and poof some simple amino acids or nucleotides were produced. Then these extremely elementary organic collections ran randomly and accidentally collected in one place and all that jostling about produced a string of DNA which contains, at a minimum, millions of atoms. The more you talk about it the more far-fetched it seems.
RD: It seems far-fetched because it is far-fetched. And it’s not like evolutionists don’t realize the problems their scenario involves they do. So, they try to craft solutions such as saying that there are unseen “organizing forces” present within physics and chemistry that overcome most of the seeming impossibilities. And there have been extensive computer simulations offered with supposedly random substitutions occurring in strings of letters that show that with enough time and chemical components just the right set needed will emerge. But one basic problem with all these attempts is that they start with a huge amount of information about how life functions today. They ignore the fact that undirected matter and energy would have none of that. Moreover, undirected matter and energy would have no goal of producing life. The evolutionary apologists always start with their own goal of showing how it might be possible. But that’s quite a different thing from showing how it actually occurred.
VK: As we often point out on Anchored by Truth explaining the origin of a thing is quite different from explaining its operation. We know today much about how life operates. We know the chemical elements involved. We know the structure of organic compounds and how those compounds can link up and form the ever increasingly complicated structures used by all living things. But an ocean of chemicals just drifting about knows none of that.
RD: And I should emphasize at this point that this discussion that we have had about the four dimensional nature of the information DNA contains has only skimmed the surface. I would highly recommend listeners going to the website for Creation Ministries International and spending some time there reading the various articles on DNA. There’s a lot more to DNA than we have time to discuss in this series.
VK: Such as?
RD: Such as the fact that DNA has its own repair system.
VK: Wikipedia says this about the DNA repair system. “DNA repair is a collection of processes by which a cell identifies and corrects damage to the DNA molecules that encode its genome. In human cells, both normal metabolic activities and environmental factors such as radiation can cause DNA damage, resulting in tens of thousands of individual molecular lesions per cell per day. Many of these lesions cause structural damage to the DNA molecule and can alter or eliminate the cell's ability to transcribe the gene that the affected DNA encodes. … As a consequence, the DNA repair process is constantly active as it responds to damage in the DNA structure.”
RD: The DNA repair system is just another facet of DNA that defies explanation by evolutionary development. Without the repair system DNA would quickly be damaged so badly that normal cellular replication would cease. That means death for the organism. So, DNA needs the repair system to keep functioning but it is the DNA itself that tells the body how to produce the repair system. And we have only discovered this very recently. The 2015 Nobel Prize in Chemistry was awarded to Tomas Lindahl, Paul Modrich, and Aziz Sancar for their work on the DNA repair processes.
VK: So, what else do you want to cover for today?
RD: I want to give our listeners a very inexact model for DNA’s amazing information system. Imagine that you found a long sheet of paper that contained a lengthy list of ingredients for a meal. As you examined the list you realized that it was a list of ingredients for an amazing 7 course meal. At the bottom of the sheet the final line said “roll this into a 2 inch tube.” After you did so you found out that the letters that are now on the outside of the rolled sheet gave you all the steps in preparing the ingredients – the chopping, slicing, dicing, grating, etc. Then the final instruction said “hold near the stove.” And when you did so you found out that certain portions of the letters were now lit up and they gave you precise instructions for cooking the various ingredients like temperature, time, basting, stirring, etc. The last line of illuminated letters now said, “place near the completed dishes.” And when you did that you found out that different letters were now lit up which told you how to garnish, arrange, put on final toppings, and serve. You get the idea. No human technology would permit us to create an information storage system that sophisticated yet we’re asked to believe that random chance built a biological information system that contains hundreds of millions of ingredients. Our most elegant examples of technology and advanced design pale in comparison to the complexity present to every strand of DNA on the planet. Yet, the most amazing thing is that some people continue to insist that all of that sophisticated complexity could have arisen by chance.
VK: Well, all that has made me a little hungry but it does make the point. We’re familiar with single dimension information systems because that’s what we experience in our daily lives. Probably, with a lot of effort and planning, we might create a single system that has multiple dimensions of information. But those systems certainly wouldn’t run into the billions of letter or symbols that served multiple tasks simultaneously. The sophistication of DNA eludes us even now. The only reasonable explanation for DNA’s relentless display of information sophistication is because it was prepared and created by the Ultimate, Infinite Designer. It’s just a little bit silly to believe that unintelligent and undirected matter and energy could produce DNA when even the most intelligent scientists could not do so. But God could and that’s what our opening scripture from Hebrews tells us. This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. Since our children are back in school and busily working their way through the academic year, today let’s listen to a prayer for all of them who could benefit from a little divine help with upcoming tests.
---- PRAYER FOR TAKING A TEST
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
Hebrews, chapter 11, verse 3, New Living Translation

The human genome is amazingly complex (creation.com)
Four Dimensional Genome (creation.com)
Splicing and dicing the human genome (creation.com)
We are less than dust (creation.com)
Epigenetics challenges neo-Darwinism (creation.com)

Episode 200 – Eternal Information – Part 8 – Supernatural Information
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Sow your seed in the morning, and at evening let your hands not be idle, for you do not know which will succeed, whether this or that, or whether both will do equally well.
Ecclesiastes, chapter 11, verse 6, New International Version

********
VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Thank you for joining us here today on Anchored by Truth. For several episodes we have been working on a series we call “Eternal Information.” We’ve covered a lot of ground so far in this series. For those listening today who may have missed some of the earlier episodes we encourage you to go to our website crystalseabooks.com where you can hear them. And, of course, anyone who just wants to review an episode even if they heard it before can always go to crystalseabooks.com for a review. This series in particular has been one of those series where each episode builds on the material from previous episodes. In the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, thus far in this series we have covered definitions for the term “information,” the attributes of information, and the laws that govern information. And in our last couple of episodes we saw that information is present in all the biological structures on earth. But what is the big point that we are making by such a thorough treatment of information?
RD: Well, before I answer your question I would also like to extend my greetings to everyone who is joining us here today. We are doing this series on information for the same reason that we do everything on Anchored by Truth – to help our listeners increase their confidence that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. But we can’t be sure that the Bible is the word of God if we aren’t sure that God exists in the first place. So, one of the things we like to do is ensure that our listeners have an abundance of … well, information so they can reassure themselves that the faith they place in God is more than just a leap into a dark abyss. Too often in our contemporary culture we are told that we must choose between logic, reason, and faith. But nothing could be further from the truth. We do not set aside logic and reason in favor of placing our truth in faith. To the contrary, we use logic, reason, and evidence to determine that the most sensible and practical thing we can possibly do is to place our trust in the God of the Bible and the revelation that He has made.
VK: And as we have been discussing in this series, the presence of information always point us to the presence of intelligence. You cannot have meaningful information without that information arising from an intelligent point of origin. The cat walking across a keyboard may produce letters on a computer screen but the cat isn’t going to produce an email telling people where to meet us for dinner. But even a young child can do an email. The transmission, reception, and use of information requires intelligence. So, if we see information present in biological structures – which we do – we can be absolutely sure that those biological structures had an intelligent point of origin.
RD: Yes. Our universe would not appear as it does without information, and therefore intelligence, being present. And that is one of the basic concepts that we have been working our way through during the first several episodes of this series. But today I want to introduce a new thought into our discussion.
VK: Which is ...
RD: Well, if the presence of information requires the presence of intelligence – which, as you said, it does – then we might say this. The presence of natural information demonstrates the presence of natural intelligence. So, a simple extension of that thought is that the presence of supernatural information would, of necessity, indicate the presence of supernatural intelligence.
VK: Oh, my goodness. I see where you are going. As human beings we can see that information surrounds us in the natural order – in the created order that we can perceive with our five senses. But you are now going to take us into an entirely different realm – the realm of the supernatural. So, I imagine that today you want to begin a discussion of the information that is contained in the Bible. Right?
RD: Exactly right. In our last couple of episodes we’ve talked about the fact that all living cells on the planet contain information. And even sources like the Merriam-Webster online dictionary acknowledges this fact. The nucleotide sequence of DNA clearly provides instructions and directions to the protein machinery of a cell and the performance of DNA is not tied to its chemistry any more than the chemistry of ink and paper determine the contents of printed pages. So, even if we restrict our awareness of the information present in nature to just what we see in living cells it is unavoidable to recognize that intelligence was necessary to create those cells.
VK: Which, of course, is a direct refutation of the foundational premise of the General Theory of Evolution. The General Theory of Evolution says that all life arose through the random and undirected interaction of inanimate particles. But the specified complexity of even the simplest one-celled creature is a huge challenge to that idea. We covered some of the problems with the idea that life could have arisen spontaneously from non-living element is episode 5 of this series.
RD: Yes. We can perceive quite readily that chemistry plus physics will not produce biology. Nor does the addition of time, even unlimited quantities of it, solve the problem. Life requires that certain select elements be organized in very specific sequences and patterns and then supported by very specific energy sources. Said simply, life requires information. Chemistry plus physics doesn’t equal biology. Chemistry plus physics plus information equals biology. So, let’s just label the information component of that equation “natural information” because we can see its operation and effects within the natural order. But when we turn to the Bible we start to perceive that its information component goes well beyond anything that can operate within the natural realm.
VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about?
RD: Sure. The Bible is, of course, a book and all books are information sources. But the Bible contains information that transcends the kind of information that is available from natural sources. For instance, in Isaiah, chapter 45, verse 1 the prophet names a conqueror who won’t arrive on the world scene for more than 150 years.
VK: Isaiah, chapter 45, verses 1 and 2 say, “The LORD said to Cyrus, his chosen one: I have taken hold of your right hand to help you capture nations and remove kings from power. City gates will open for you; not one will stay closed. As I lead you, I will level mountains and break the iron bars on bronze gates of cities.” Biblical scholars date Isaiah’s ministry to a roughly 40 year period that lasted from 740 BC until approximately 701 BC. Isaiah’s prophetic ministry can be dated accurately because Isaiah told us the Judean kings who ruled while he was conducting his ministry.
RD: Yes. So, Isaiah was prophesying in the latter half of the 8th century BC. A little over 100 years later the nation of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians and the Jews went into a 70 year period of exile.
VK: And that 70 year period of captivity had been foretold by a different prophet, Jeremiah. ” In Jeremiah, chapter 25, verses 10 and 11 Jeremiah reported that the Lord said, “I will put an end to your parties and wedding celebrations; no one will grind grain or be here to light the lamps at night. This country will be as empty as a desert, because I will make all of you the slaves of the king of Babylonia for 70 years.”
RD: Right. And just as Jeremiah prophesied around the year 605 BC the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar attacked Jerusalem, conquered it, and deported many of the Jewish elite and nobles. Most Bible scholars believe the prophet Daniel was part of this first group of deportees. Nebuchadnezzar made Judah a vassal state of Babylon, appointed his own governor, and went back to Babylon. But it wasn’t long before the Jews who remained started fomenting rebellion. So, about 14 years later the Babylonians returned and completed the destruction of Jerusalem and sent all but the poorest people into exile. That period of exile ended shortly after 539 BC when a Medo-Persian emperor, named Cyrus, conquered Babylon and shortly thereafter permitted the Jews to return their homeland. So, here we have two examples of very specific prophesies made decades before they were fulfilled. Isaiah gave us the name of the pagan king who would conquer a city that did indeed have “gates of bronze.” Jeremiah had told the Jews ahead of time how long their period of exile and captivity would last.
VK: The point is that there is no way, humanly speaking, that Isaiah prophesying in the latter half of the 8th century BC could have known the name of a single person who would be the person that would be a conqueror who would appropriately be called God’s “chosen one.” And there was no way, humanly speaking, Jeremiah could know how long the Babylonians would keep the Jews in captivity before the period of exile even began. So, both of these are examples of information that the Bible contains but where the source of the information could not have come from the natural realm – the realm we can perceive with our five senses.
RD: Exactly. Well, that’s just a quick example of the subject that I want to cover in today’s episode of Anchored by Truth and that will probably wrap into the next episode as well. The Bible gives us very clear evidence that it doesn’t just contain information in a single dimension or on a single level. The Bible actually is a multi-level source of information and that strongly points toward a source for the information that is beyond the natural realm.
VK: As is the two examples of fulfilled prophecy that we were just discussing. In those cases there’s no way the human authors who recorded the prophecies could have possessed the information. For them to have the information it had to have been revealed to them by a supernatural source.
RD: Right. And those are just examples of the Bible’s multi-layered informational attribute. So, I want to start pointing out some of these various levels of information that illustrate the remarkable character of the Bible.
VK: Where do you want to start?
RD: Well, let’s start with the fact that, like all books, the Bible possesses and provides information in what we might call a linear fashion. In other words, we can, and should, read the Bible like any other book. The Bible contains valuable information about human and natural history. The Bible contains practical guidance for how to manage money, build successful businesses, improve interpersonal relations, and create better families and raise happier children. The Bible contains instructions for how to avoid conflicts, build prosperous communities and nations, and live fulfilled and meaningful lives. All that is available just by reading the Bible the way you would read any other book – left to right, starting on page 1 and going through to the end.
VK: But even in that sense the Bible does display a marked difference from other books, doesn’t it. And, in particular, it is different from other books that claim to be the word of God.
RD: That’s true. One of the amazing things about the Bible is that as it is conveying its information it displays a remarkable unity. It contains many different kinds of literature yet all parts of the Bible serve a single purpose. The Bible tells a single story about a single plan that revolves around a single people and a single person. But as the Bible tells that story it always displays a cognizance of the needs of the people who will be reading the story. So, when the Bible tells us about creation and the subsequent fall of our first parents while it is telling us how sin entered the world it does so while calling to our attention the need for us to be obedient to the Lord. It continues to make that same point when it describes the exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt.
VK: If the Hebrews had obeyed God after they left Egypt there would have been no need for them to wander in the desert for 40 years. God told them to go up to Palestine and displace the wicked people who were living there. And God told the Hebrews He would go with them and before them to ensure that they were successful. But rather than obeying God, the Hebrews made their own estimate of the situation and refused to go up right away. So, in the Bible God relates the history but ensures that the history reinforces its larger lessons and purposes as well as giving details about particular historical events. Is this also true of other parts of the Bible?
RD: Yes. There are parts of the Bible, such as Proverbs, that are specifically dedicated to teaching people how to live better and more successful lives. And people who take the Bible’s teaching seriously and apply it to their lives know that the Bible’s instructions help them live lives that are joyful and successful even from a human perspective. People are often surprised that the Bible has quite a bit to say about managing and investing money.
VK: For instance, Ecclesiastes, chapter 11, verses 1 and 2 say, “Ship your grain across the sea; after many days you may receive a return. Invest in seven ventures, yes, in eight; you do not know what disaster may come upon the land.” That’s from the New International Version. And we heard something similar in our opening scripture. This is the same advice many financial planners give today. It’s pretty much standard investment guidance to diversify your investments and to never put too much of your savings into a single investment category or single company. We may use terms like “asset allocation” or “avoiding single security risk” but those are really just different words saying the same thing. Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes almost 3,000 years ago but he’s giving the same advice we hear today. Why do you think the Bible addresses subjects many people would think have little to do with “spirituality?” How does the Bible’s money management advice reinforce the idea that sinners need a Savior?
RD: The easiest way of explaining the wide variety of subjects that the Bible covers – those areas in which it supplies information – is that the Bible concerns itself with anything and everything with which God knew we would be concerned. God knows that human beings are going to be concerned about the daily necessities of life and also with the uncertainty of the future while living in a fallen creation. So, God provided us help to deal with those things. In other words, God didn’t want to leave his children without firm guidance to help confront the challenges of daily living.
VK: Said slightly differently if God had not given us instruction about how to manage money successfully we would have been left on our own. Some people might have made wise decisions but many, maybe most, would not. That would create tension in our lives. Frankly, for many of us concerns about money or how we are going to provide for ourselves or our families would have become the primary focus of our lives. An idol is anything we value more than God. And God does not want us to create idols in our lives even over things that can have a good purpose.
RD: Right. It’s not too strong a statement to say that when the Bible gives us instruction for how to manage our money and investments it’s one way the Bible helps us avoid idolatry. If the Bible didn’t give us advice about money, managing money could easily take over our time, attention, and, sadly, our affection. It does anyway for many people. The same thing is true about the instruction the Bible gives us about families, relationships, sex, food and drink. There is much in this life that is good and enjoyable when it is kept within the boundaries that God gave us. But when we forget God’s admonitions those areas cannot only become problems they can become deadly idols.
VK: We don’t talk much today about the sin of gluttony but our society deals with the negative effects of obesity constantly. Every day people suffer from poor health, impaired relationships, and sometimes job loss because they struggle with their weight. Yet, Proverbs, chapter 23, verses 20 and 21 have said this for almost 3,000 years. “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.” That’s from the New International Version. So, the big point is that the reason the Bible tells us information about the practical aspects of living good lives is that such advice helps us avoid the pitfalls that will pull our attention and affection away from God.
RD: That’s a good way to say it. The most obvious form of information that the Bible contains and provides is the kind of information that we derive just by reading it as we would any other book. But I think it’s fair to say that even that within this first level of information the Bible is extraordinary. The Bible has inspired untold millions of people who are from cultures all around the world and throughout time periods that stretch back thousands of years. It’s an extraordinary book that can communicate so widely, so successfully, for so long. Its record for doing so is really unique in that regard.
VK: Well, as you say reading the Bible left to right from the first to last page is really just the first level of information that the Bible offers. And we are going to get into other levels of the information that the Bible contains as we move into our next couple of episodes of Anchored by Truth. But as you have said the Bible is amazing just at this first level. One of the things that so many people don’t realize is the wide variety of practical and beneficial advice that the Bible gives.
RD: We don’t recognize this much today but for hundreds, really thousands, of years all someone had to say was “the Bible says ...” and that would end discussions or settle questions. Millions, tens of millions of people down through history have lived much better lives just because of the information that they got from the Bible. This used to be accepted wisdom in our culture but obviously it has fallen out of favor.
VK: And as it has fallen out of favor our society has paid the price hasn’t it?
RD: Absolutely. It’s beating a dead horse to say that when we taught the Bible in school we didn’t have school shootings, obese kids, and drug epidemics. But I don’t want to veer off the topic of this series. We started out reminding everybody that it is impossible to have information without intelligence. And it would be impossible to have supernatural information without supernatural intelligence. When you look at this first level of information that we see in the Bible it would be possible, a little silly, but possible to think that human beings produced the information it contains. After all, lots of human beings write books that can be read in the ordinary fashion. But as we move forward we are going to see that the Bible supplies us with information that could not possibly come from a natural source and thereby demonstrates that it has a supernatural point of origin.
VK: Well, we will have to get into that in our next episode of Anchored by Truth. We’re all familiar with single dimension information systems because that’s what we experience in our daily lives from books and other sources. But just as we saw when we looked at DNA and biological information there are sophisticated information systems within the universe that elude us even now. The only reasonable explanation for their existence is that they were created by the Ultimate, Infinite Designer. It’s just a little bit silly to believe that unintelligent and undirected matter and energy could produce the kind of information that we deal with every day of our lives. And we don’t have to surrender to that belief. God has given us ample evidence of His presence and He is more than willing to help us live productive, joyful lives if we will just acknowledge that simple fact. This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. There are many places around the world where Christians are persecuted just for acknowledging and proclaiming their belief in the God of the Bible. Let’s remember them in prayer today.
---- PRAYER FOR PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Ecclesiastes, chapter 11, verse 6, New International Version

Episode 201 – Eternal Information – Part 9 – Supernatural Information Part 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. … for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Isaiah, chapter 7, verses 14 and 16, New International Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re so happy you’re able to join us here today on Anchored by Truth. For our most recent several episodes we have been working on a series we call “Eternal Information.” We’ve covered a lot of ground so far in this series. For those listening today who may have missed some of the earlier episodes we encourage you to go to our website crystalseabooks.com where you can hear them. This series in particular has been one of those series where each episode builds on the material from previous episodes. In the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, we’re pretty deep into our discussion of information. Maybe it would help provide some context to today’s discussion if you would start us off by briefly going over some of the big ideas we’ve been discussing?
RD: Well, before I do that I would also like to extend my greetings to everyone who is joining us here today. The biggest idea that we are trying to convey in this series is that you cannot look at the universe around us and fail to note that it not only contains material elements, like matter and energy, but that it also contains non-material components like volition and information. And it would be impossible for our universe to contain such non-material components without there being a non-material source that possessed both power and intelligence.
VK: One of the first ideas we covered in this series is that information cannot be created, destroyed, or affected by matter or energy. Matter or energy can be used to store, transmit, or receive information but the information itself remains unaffected by the matter and energy. A recipe for pound cake doesn’t change whether it is written on a note card, stored in computer hard drive, or retained in someone’s memory. And the presence of information always requires the presence of intelligence. Or said differently, the presence of information within the visible universe demonstrates that there must be a source of power and intelligence that made it possible. And, when you refer to a non-material source that possesses both power and intelligence you’re referring to God.
RD: Yes. Our universe could not appear as it does without information, and therefore intelligence, being present. But intelligence without creative power would never produce either the visible universe or the information that we displayed throughout the universe. So, one big idea we have been discussing is that the existence of information points directly to the existence of God. Or as Dr. Werner Gitt so aptly put it in the title of his book, In the Beginning was Information. This point is reinforced by the fact that life would not be possible without the presence of information within biological structure.
VK: Even the Merriam-Webster on-line dictionary points out that the nucleotide sequence of DNA contains information. That dictionary provides this definition for information: “[Information is] the attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something (such as nucleotides in DNA or binary digits in a computer program) that produce specific effects.”
RD: Yes. One way of thinking about information’s role in living creatures is to note that physics and chemistry, by themselves, will not produce biology. Biological structures are the result of chemical elements being organized and directed in very specific patterns such as the nucleotide sequence within DNA. In other words, physics plus chemistry does not equal biology. Physics plus chemistry plus information equals biology.
VK: And in our last episode of Anchored by Truth we noted that if the existence of natural information indicates what we might call natural intelligence, then the existence of supernatural information would necessarily indicate the presence of supernatural intelligence.
RD: Exactly right. And in our last episode we began demonstrating that the Bible gives evidence of being the result of a superintending, supernatural intelligence. Last time we began demonstrating that Bible stores and transmits information on multiple levels. This attribute would be very difficult to explain if the Bible were solely the result of human input and intelligence.
VK: And, in that episode we pointed out that one level of information that the Bible contains is the same kind of information you might get from reading any book. In essence, it’s the information you get from reading a book left to right from front to back. The Bible contains a ton of information on human and natural history, interpersonal relations, managing money, building successful families, overcoming addiction, and many other subjects. If there’s a subject that affects the lives of people and communities the Bible most likely has something to say about it.
RD: Yes. So, one level of information that we may easily see within the Bible is what we might term pragmatic information. Pragmatic information is information about the ordinary affairs that concern people such as historical information, advice about money and families, and proverbs to help people avoid trouble and live better lives. Pragmatic information is important, not only because of its content, but also because the presence of this pragmatic information gives us an opportunity to test the accuracy and reliability of the Bible
VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about?
RD: Sure. One form of this pragmatic information is the historical information the Bible provides. We can test this historical information to see whether it is reliable. And we have given tons of examples on various Anchored by Truth episodes to show that the Bible’s historical information is reliable. Examples like the fact that the book of Jonah maintained a record of the existence of the Assyrian capital, Nineveh, while secular history lost sight of it for over 2,000 years. In 1849 the British diplomat and explorer, Austen Henry Layard, rediscovered the lost palace of Sennacherib with its 71 rooms and colossal bas-reliefs. He also unearthed the palace and famous library of Ashurbanipal with 22,000 cuneiform clay tablets. But before Layard’s discovery many historians thought that Jonah’s account of Nineveh was just a legend because it was contained in the same book as him being in the belly of a fish for 3 days. Another remarkable confirmation of the Bible’s historical reliability is the archeological findings at the city of Jericho.
VK: Extensive excavations have been carried out at the site of the ancient city of Jericho. And while some of the archeologists who worked at the site didn’t believe their findings supported the Biblical account, careful analysis by others, such as Dr. Bryant Wood, have come to a different conclusion. For instance, Dr. Wood says that “The city’s free-standing inner and outer mudbrick walls collapsed outward, fell down the slope and piled up at the base of the (mound), falling ‘beneath themselves’ as the Hebrew of Joshua 6:5 indicates. This allowed the invading Israelites to go straight ahead, up and into the city in the manner described in Joshua 6:20.
RD: Dr. Wood has also concluded that “After the walls fell, the city was set on fire (Joshua 6:24). A one-meter-thick layer of ash and debris, including jars of burnt wheat, has been found in many sections of the city. The jars full of charred grain support the Bible’s claims that the attack took place just after the harvest (Joshua 3:15), that the siege was short (seven days), and that the Israelites did not plunder the city, except for the precious metals that were “put into the treasury of the house of the Lord” (Joshua 6:24) and the individual sin of Achan (Joshua 7:21).” One of the most remarkable findings was that “In at least one area, the mudbrick wall had not collapsed, consistent with Rahab’s house being spared even though it was attached to the city wall.” … “Some houses in the lower city were built into the lower city wall, which is exactly how Rahab’s house is described (Joshua 2:15).”
VK: And as we have pointed out in numerous episodes of Anchored by Truth there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of times the Bible’s historical trustworthiness has been validated by archeological finds. So, historical information is one aspect of the pragmatic information the Bible contains. And when tested the historical information is found to be reliable. The same thing is true of the Bible’s advice for everyday situations like money management or family relationships. Last time we noted the Bible’s recommendation from Ecclesiastes that we should diversify our investments. Ecclesiastes, chapter 11, verse 2 says we should divide our investments into 7 or 8 portions because the future is uncertain. This tracks very closely to investment advice that is still given to never allocate more than 10% or so of a portfolio into a single asset class. Diversification is one of the foundational principles that is still honored today. Moreover, the appropriateness of the Bible’s recommendations regarding marital and family relations has been validated by countless sociological studies to produce happier and more successful families and children.
RD: Yes. And people who don’t follow the Bible’s advice on remaining faithful in marriage or avoiding gluttony drunkenness far more often than not wish that they had listened to the Bible. The Bible’s pragmatic information is time tested and validated. But, of course, the Bible doesn’t just contain pragmatic information. It also contains prophetic information.
VK: And in our last episode of Anchored by Truth we mentioned two examples of the Bible’s extraordinary prophetic accuracy. We talked about the precise fulfillment of the Bible’s prophecies in Jeremiah, chapter 25, verses 10 and 11 and Isaiah, chapter 45, verses 1 and 2. These prophecies concerned the fact that the nation of Judah would be conquered by the Babylonians and the Jews would spend 70 years in exile. Then their exile would end when a Persian king, that the Bible names specifically, would allow the exiled Hebrews to return to Judah and Jerusalem. These prophecies were fulfilled exactly even though they were given decades before fulfillment.
RD: Right. But it is important to note that the Bible’s prophetic information wasn’t just confined to the destinies of nations and empires that were fulfilled over decades and centuries. Biblical prophets also gave prophecies about specific individuals that were fulfilled relatively quickly such as when the prophet Samuel foretold that the first king of Israel would be Saul. Samuel gave Saul a series of prophecies that were precisely fulfilled within a day of Samuel giving them. This ensured that Saul could be assured that Samuel had been sent by God to anoint him king. When we think of Biblical prophecy we often think about the “big” prophecies such as those concerning Jesus or the future of Israel or the worldwide flood. But all of the prophets had to give short term prophecies as well as long term prophets. Otherwise the Hebrews would have had no way of testing to see whether the prophet was genuine.
VK: In Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verses 21 and 22 Moses gave the people the test for determining whether someone who claimed to be a prophet had actually been sent by God. God had tol Moses to tell the people, “You may say to yourselves, ‘How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?’ If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.” In other words, a Biblical prophet had to be 100% accurate. So, even though scripture does not report all of the prophecies that each prophet made we can be confident that the prophets were providing enough prophecies for shorter-term events that allowed the people to validate their status.
RD: So, the ability to give accurate prophecies 100% of the time is what distinguishes authentic Biblical prophets from the many imposters that have come along through the ages. People such as Edward Cayce and Jeanne Dixon have claimed to be prophets but they have many well-known prophetic failures. Dixon predicted that the Russians would be the first to land a man on the moon. She predicted that Richard Nixon would not resign from the presidency of the United States. She predicted that the Vietnam War would be over by l966 and she predicted that the Panama Canal treaties would not be approved and ratified. She also predicted that UFOs, with super-advanced humans from a hidden planet would land and make contact with us by 1977. All of those prophecies were obviously failures. Edward Cayce predicted the 2nd coming of Christ would occur in 1998. It didn’t.
VK: During the 1930s, Cayce also incorrectly predicted that North America would experience existential chaos: He said, "Los Angeles, San Francisco ... will be among those that will be destroyed before New York". Though, come to think of it, if you look at what’s going on in this country right now you might start to think he was right about some of that.
RD: And that is an important point. These false prophets may have been right may have been right on some or even many occasions. But the standard for being a Biblical prophet is to be right 100% of the time and no prophets outside the Bible have that kind of record. But in this episode we are primarily concerned with the nature of the information that the Bible contains and how that demonstrates the supernatural character of the Bible. So, let’s take a look at our opening scripture for a second. This scripture from Isaiah is certainly one of the most famous prophecies in the Bible because it was the prophecy that the coming Messiah would be born of a virgin. But what I want to point out is that the prophecy, like many in the Bible, had two levels of prophetic information within it. There was an immediate application of the prophecy and a much longer application.
VK: What do you mean?
RD: This prophecy was given by the prophet Isaiah to a Hebrew king named Ahaz. At the time Isaiah gave it the nation of Judah had been invaded by a confederation of two foreign powers and kings. The kings were from the nations of Israel and Aram. Aram was essentially Syria. Isaiah, chapter 7, verse 1 says, “When Ahaz son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, was king of Judah, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel marched up to fight against Jerusalem …”
VK: We should tell everyone that event occurred about 733 B.C. – a little over 700 years before Jesus was born. At this point in Israel’s history the kingdom that had been unified under King David and King Solomon had been split into a northern kingdom that was called “Israel” and a southern kingdom that was called “Judah.” Ahaz was the king of Judah, the southern kingdom. There had been civil war between Judah and Israel pretty much every since the split of the kingdom under Solomon’s son. For most of the period of the split kingdom the northern kingdom was the more powerful of the two. So, at the time of this invasion the threat that Judah might be conquered by a confederation of Israel and Syria was real. Ahaz knew that and he was scared. So, God sent the prophet Isaiah to Ahaz to essentially tell him “don’t worry about those two kings. I’ll handle them. And to prove I’ll take care of them ask me for a sign and I’ll provide it.”
RD: Isaiah was trying to provide God’s reassurance to Ahaz but Ahaz was a wicked king so he rejected Isaiah’s offer. Ahaz essentially said, “I’m too pious to ask God for a sign.” But God knew Ahaz’s heart so he told Isaiah to say to Ahaz, “that’s fine. I’ll give you a sign anyway and it will be a sign of my own choosing.” So, God told Ahaz that as a sign that that the invading kings would not succeed in their ambitions God had Isaiah give the prophecy we heard in our opening scripture. This prophecy actually operated on two levels. In the short term Isaiah’s prophecy meant that before a young woman would get pregnant, give birth, and raise a child for 2 or 3 years the danger to Judah would disappear. And it did. In fact within a matter of decades neither Israel nor Syria would ever pose a serious danger to Judah ever again.
VK: And, on a longer term basis, the prophecy referred to the ultimate deliverer for not only Judah but also the whole world. In his gospel Matthew cited this prophecy as being fulfilled in the virgin birth of Christ Jesus. Now again, we want to emphasize that there was more than 700 years between Isaiah giving this prophecy and Jesus being born. So, while the short term application of the prophecy was fulfilled within a few years, the longer term fulfillment was a matter of centuries. Only, an eternal God with supernatural knowledge could have given that information to Isaiah.
RD: Yes. And that’s the really important point for today. For those of us who accept the supernatural inspiration of the Bible Isaiah being able to give a precise prophecy that had two different applications isn’t really a big deal. We accept the fact that God knows everything (omniscient) and therefore can reveal anything to anyone any time He chooses. But for someone who wants to deny divine inspiration for the Bible they have to come up with an alternative explanation for how a man in the 8th century BC could have known something not just a couple of years earlier but hundreds of years earlier.
VK: What you’re saying is that the prophetic information within the Bible goes well beyond human abilities. Human beings might be able to supply pragmatic information like advice on managing money or raising kids. Human beings can ever make accurate records of historical events – though we have no other records besides the Bible that made such records accurately over a period of 1,500 years. But at least theoretically a reliable historical record, even one prepared over centuries, is within the power of humans to make. But no human being has the power to make precise prophecies of the type we see in the Bible. We don’t know what level the stock market will be at weeks from now much less decades from now. We don’t know the outcome of elections that are sometimes just days away. And even in those cases where claims are made that a human prophet did get some things right we never see detailed prophecies that are fulfilled precisely. But we see this in the Bible.
RD: Right. Again, accepting the supernatural inspiration of the Bible resolves all the questions that otherwise have no sensible resolution. So, critics have to resort to doubting the date the Bible books were written to try to make it look like the prophecies were given after the events not before. This is one of the reasons that careful research and scholarship is so important to our faith. Solid analysis about use of words, writing styles, grammar and syntax help refute the critics’ attempts. And it’s important to note that the critics wouldn’t need to make such attempts if the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible weren’t so effective at demonstrating that the Bible has a supernatural point of inspiration. Back to our basic point. The presence of information always requires the presence of intelligence. And information is abundant within the created order, even in the existence of biological life. This means intelligence was involved in the creation of living creatures. This is information that we can perceive and understand with our natural senses. But the kind of information that we see within the Bible cannot be explained through natural means. It’s supernatural. And supernatural information must have a supernatural intelligence behind it – the kind of intelligence that only God possesses.
VK: And there is at least one more level of information in the Bible that we haven’t had time to discuss yet. We will have to get into that in our next episode of Anchored by Truth. We’re all familiar with single dimension information systems because that’s what we experience in our daily lives from books and other sources. But there are biological information systems within the universe so complex that they are beyond anything that human beings could create. The only reasonable explanation for their existence is that they were created by the Ultimate, Infinite Designer. God has given us ample evidence of His presence and He is more than willing to help us live productive, joyful lives if we will just acknowledge that simple fact. This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s say a prayer for our nation especially that God will bring a spirit of renewal and revival to a culture that is desperately in need of the truth of Christ.
---- PRAYER FOR THE NATION
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Ecclesiastes, chapter 11, verse 6, New International Version

Jericho archaeology after Joshua (creation.com)
The walls of Jericho (creation.com)
Jeane Dixon And Prophecy | Christian Research Institute (equip.org)

Episode 202 – Eternal Information – Part 10 – Supernatural Information Part 3
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram ...
Genesis, chapter 14, verse 18, New International Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re so happy you’re able to join us here today on Anchored by Truth. For several episodes now we have been working on a series we call “Eternal Information.” We’ve covered a lot of ground so far in this series. If you have missed some of the earlier episodes we encourage you to go to our website crystalseabooks.com where you can hear them. Today, in the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, what is the big idea that we have wanted to get across during this series. In other words, why spend so much time on a show devoted to the Bible to talk about information?
RD: Well, before we get into our discussion I would also like to welcome everyone to today’s episode. At Anchored by Truth we have one central focus – to help people discover or rediscover a basic truth: the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. That truth is unfortunately disappearing in contemporary America and it’s having a devastating impact on our culture. Every other year since 2014 Ligonier Ministries in conjunction with Life Way Research has conducted a survey to explore what Americans think about God and the Bible. Their most recent survey and the results have, sadly, shown the continuation of some alarming trends – especially as it pertains to how Americans view the Bible.
VK: And anyone who wants to see the results for themselves can view them at “thestateoftheology.com.” [THE STATE OF THEOLOGY dot com]
RD: Yes. There is a lot of valuable information that comes out of the survey but one item that particularly caught my attention and is directly pertinent to what we do on Anchored by Truth was the result of this question. The researchers asked people whether they agreed or disagreed with this statement: “The Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but it not literally true.”
VK: In other words, the researchers were asking people whether they believed the Bible was true. That’s really important to note. They weren’t asking whether people BELIEVED in the Bible. They were asking people whether they thought the Bible was true. This goes directly to the whole reason we do Anchored by Truth. You have often said that the church in the west made a disastrous turn years ago when Christians began insisting that we had a right to our beliefs but we stopped insisting that the Christian faith was true.
RD: Yes. And the survey results are indicative of the consequences of the western church receding from an insistence that the Bible is true and teaches truth. The percentage of U.S. adults agreeing with the statement “The Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but is not literally true” went from 41 percent who agreed with it in 2014 to 53 percent in 2022. So, the percentage of U.S. adults who accept the Bible as being literally true declined by 12 percent in 8 years. Perhaps even more alarming is that the percentage of adults who would be classified as evangelical and who agreed with the statement rose from 17 percent to 26 percent – a 9 percent increase.
VK: And evangelicals, of course, are the group where you might expect that only 1 or 2 percent would agree with a statement that denies the truth of the Bible. Where would they derive the content of the faith they claim to espouse if not from the Bible? But if that 26 percent of evangelicals doesn’t believe the Bible is literally true why would they put any trust in the faith the Bible describes? I’m not sure which facet of the survey results is more alarming – the fact that a majority of U.S. adults now don’t believe in the truth of the Bible or the fact that over a quarter of evangelicals now doubt the source of their faith.
RD: Obviously, both facts are alarming and they are a graphic reason that those of us who know the Bible IS the word of God must redouble our efforts to spread that message. And we must ensure that we are prepared to answer the questions that will inevitably arise when we proclaim that the Bible is true – not just a source of comfort or inspiration in our lives – but literally true. So, back to your original question – the reason that we have been delving into our study of information is to help people have yet another line of evidence that our universe as we see it couldn’t exist without God.
VK: And, the basic line of reasoning that we are following is really pretty straightforward. The presence of information always indicates the presence of intelligence. And we see the existence of information all about us in the visible universe especially in living creatures. The nucleotide sequence in DNA is very clear evidence that information is present in how cells are built and operate. So, information must have been present to create life. And if the presence of natural information indicates the presence of natural intelligence then if we find any supernatural information then we would have to conclude that somewhere there is the presence of supernatural intelligence.
RD: And we do have one very clear repository of supernatural information that we know about – the Bible. And we have spent our last couple of episodes of Anchored by Truth discussing the supernatural character of the information that we find in the Bible. We started out by noting that the Bible does contain a great deal of what might be designated as natural information – the same kind of information that can be derived from many books. The Bible contains information about natural and human history, advice about raising children, managing money, or building stable societies, and practical guidance on everything from avoiding dangerous sexual or addictive behavior and maintaining positive relationships with our neighbors.
VK: And we called this kind of information, “pragmatic information.” But we noted that even if we considered just this pragmatic information the Bible is remarkable isn’t it? One thing we know for sure is that Bible has been cited by tens of thousands, and probably millions, of people as making a positive difference in their lives. Countless people have testified that Bible saved them from addition, disgrace, and sometimes suicide when they picked it up and read it. And the Bible has done this across the centuries and across cultures and nations. So, even if the only evidence of the Bible’s character that we had came from the pragmatic information it contains the Bible would be an amazing book. But in addition to the pragmatic information the Bible also contains an unequaled record of fulfilled prophecy.
RD: Right. So, alongside the pragmatic information the Bible contains there is also a large volume of prophetic information. And while it might have been possible for a natural man to record history or even give wise advice there is no way for men to reliably know the future, but the Biblical prophets did. To be an authentic Biblical prophet you had to be 100% accurate. This means that those prophets that have books in the Bible had to have received enough short term prophecies so that the people could verify the authenticity of the prophet but most also received longer term prophecies many of which were fulfilled hundreds of years after the prophecy was given. And we have reliable records that assure us even today of the prophets’ accuracy.
VK: I know that we’ve given some examples of fulfilled prophecies in previous episodes but how about if you give us another one just to illustrate the point that you are making.
RD: The prophet Daniel wrote the book that goes by his name in the 6th century BC. Quite likely Daniel finished his book sometime earlier than 530 B.C. Early in his book Daniel, who was a Jewish captive of the Babylonians, interpreted a dream for the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar and told him that a series of 4 great empires would control Israel, the Middle East, and much of the surrounding territory. We now know that the empires Daniel referred to were the Babylonians, the Medo-Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans. Daniel, in fact, gave the names of the first three empires and he lived to see the transition from the Babylonians to the Medo-Persians. Because of the linguistic and semantic characteristics of Daniel we can be very sure he wrote hundreds of years earlier than the documents we call the Dead Sea Scrolls which date from the 3rd century BC forward. The Roman general Pompey the Great didn’t conquer Jerusalem until 63 BC so we can be very sure hundreds of years elapsed between Daniel giving the prophecy and the final empire gaining control of Israel.
VK: In other words Daniel’s prophecy about the 4 great empires is just one more example of the prophetic information the Bible contains. And while we might be able to see how wise and careful men could produce much of the Bible’s pragmatic record only men who had been supernaturally inspired could produce its prophetic record. So, the Bible’s record of successful, fulfilled prophecy is strong evidence that it was prepared under the superintending direction of a supernatural source. Those of us who believe in God’s inspiration of the Biblical writers have no problem explaining how this record of fulfilled prophecy was produced. But anyone who denies the existence of God or God’s role in the preparation of the Bible have to come up with alternative explanations. And they do but that is not what we want to talk about today. You said that today you want to go into a 3rd line of evidence that demonstrates the supernatural inspiration that would have been necessary to create the Bible.
RD: Yes. In addition to the pragmatic and prophetic information that the Bible contains it also contains what you might call interconnected information. This interconnected information is unparalleled in any other book.
VK: What do you mean by interconnected information.
RD: There is an old, but well-known couplet that says, “the Old is in the New revealed. The New is in the Old concealed.”
VK: Ok. I want to be sure I heard that right before we continue. “The Old is in the New revealed. The New is in the Old concealed.” Right?
RD: Right. It’s a poetic and clever way of saying that the Old Testament and the New Testament display a supernatural connectedness. Many people think that because the Old Testament is called “old” that somehow we can dispense with it, do away with it. Nothing could be further from the truth. We can’t fully understand the New Testament without the Old Testament. And that is sort of easy to see. It’s not uncommon for later writers to base some of what they are writing on things that came earlier.
VK: At this stage we’re all familiar with sequels in movies and television. In most of the “star-something” sagas you can’t understand the latest installment unless you have seen the prior ones – and sometimes you have to have seen more than one to fully get what the characters in the latest thing are doing. I suppose that is the producer’s intent?
RD: For TV and movie producers, that is their intent. And that shows you something. The TV and movie producers know you can base a storyline on something that has already been written. But within the Old and New Testament the mutual dependency goes both ways. A lot of times we don’t fully understand Old Testament events or writings until we see what happened during New Testament times especially in the life of Jesus. And that’s something that man could never do. Only God could have something occur or be relevant in the history of the 1st century AD that then actually clarified what had happened centuries or millennia earlier.
VK: I think we’re going to need an example of what you’re thinking about.
RD: Well, let’s take a look at one of the most mysterious and enigmatic figures in the Bible, Melchizedek. The name Melchizedek is usually interpreted to mean “King of Righteousness.” He appears in person only once in the Bible and that appearance is in the 1st book of the Bible, Genesis.
VK: Our opening verse, Genesis, chapter 14, verse 18 reads “Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram …” This verse describes an encounter between the patriarch Abraham and Melchizedek after Abraham had rescued his nephew Lot who had been kidnapped by some raiders. Lot had been captured by an army led by a confederation of 4 kings. When Abraham heard about Lot’s kidnapping he assembled a force of his own, chased the invaders, and defeated them. On the way back to where he had settled Abraham apparently went near the city of Salem. Most commentators think the city was an early version of Jerusalem.
RD: Exactly. So, Melchizedek, who is the “king of Salem,” has heard about Abraham’s achievement and success and goes out from Salem to celebrate Abraham’s victory. In the course of that celebration Melchizedek pronounces a blessing on Abraham.
VK: Genesis, chapter 14, verses 19 and 20 tell us Melchizedek said “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils he had obtained when he recovered Lot.

RD: So, this incident occurred during the life of Abraham who lived almost 2,000 years before Jesus was born. Moses included the reference to Melchizedek when he wrote the first five books of the Bible which he did around 500 years later. And it’s the only mention of Melchizedek in the entire Old Testament until God inspired King David to write the 110th Psalm which was around 1000 B.C. or another 500 years after that. I should emphasize that right now I’m just using round numbers for the purpose of making the larger point.
VK: You’re referring to Psalm 110, verse 4 which reads “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.’”
RD: Yes. And those are the only 2 references to Melchizedek in the entire Old Testament – 2 very short verses. And David’s reference in Psalm 110 would have been confusing to his readers. David said that someone who David calls “his Lord” in verse 1 of the psalm will be a “priest forever” in the “order of Melchizedek.” All commentators agree that the “Lord” David referred to was the coming and prophesied Messiah. The Jews in both David’s time and Jesus time regarded the 110th psalm as being a Messianic psalm. So, when David said that the Messiah would be a priest that wouldn’t have been confusing to the people. But, and this a big “but,” at the time David composed the psalm Israel had a well-established priesthood that conformed to the Mosaic Law. And in order to be a priest you had to have been a member of the tribe of Levi who was one of the 12 sons of the patriarch Jacob. The Levitical priesthood was described in detail in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. Well, there is no way Melchizedek was a member of the tribe of Levi – because Melchizedek lived 2 generations before Jacob was born.
VK: We often hear in the Bible the phrase “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” Jacob was Abraham’s grandson. Levi was one of Abraham’s great-grandsons. Abraham had interacted with Melchizedek even before Isaac was even born. So, there is no way Melchizedek could have been a priest according to regulations established for the Levitical priesthood. Melchizedek was not, and could not be, a part of the tribe of Levi. He lived long before Levi was born. David saying the coming Messiah would be a priest “in the order of Melchizedek” would have been confusing to the people. In David’s day there was no priesthood “in the order of Melchizedek.” The priesthood would have been in the order of Levi. So, it’s fair to say David’s reference to Melchizedek in Psalm 110 would have made very little sense to the people of his day – or to the Jews who lived for the next thousand years because there was no priesthood “in the order of Melchizedek” during all that time.
RD: Right. And we don’t get any more information about why these two rather strange and oblique references to Melchizedek were included in the Old Testament until we get to the book of Hebrews in the New Testament – and then the mystery is clarified. The writer of Hebrews, which many people think was the Apostle Paul, makes 4 references to Melchizedek. So, it is not until 1,000 years after David wrote Psalm 110 that we find out why God inspired him to write that seemingly strange line. Paul explains that Jesus was in fact a priest even though Jesus did not come from the tribe of Levi.
VK: Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. As far back as Genesis, chapter 49, verse 10, the Jews had known that the Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Near his death when Jacob was blessing his sons Jacob said, “The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.” The “scepter not [departing] from Judah” was well accepted to mean that a descendent of Judah would be a king whose kingdom would never end – in other words the Messiah.

RD: Yes. So, Jacob had said the Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah and David had said the Messiah would have an eternal priesthood but that priesthood would be one that resembled Melchizedek’s priesthood. The Messiah’s priesthood would not be part of the Levitical priesthood. But until Jesus lived, died, and was resurrected no one knew how these two requirements could both be satisfied. But the Apostle Paul in the book of Hebrews explained how this was possible. The Jews’ genealogical records established that Jesus was a “son of David” and therefore came from the tribe of Judah. That part was easy. But Paul tells us that Jesus’ priesthood came from an older form of priesthood, one that preceded and superseded the Levitical priesthood – the priesthood of Melchizedek. And Melchizedek is the only person in the entire Bible besides Jesus who is identified as both a king and a priest.
VK: So, it wasn’t until Paul – or whoever wrote the book of Hebrews in the New Testament – explained how Jesus perfectly fulfilled David’s prophecy in Psalm 110 that people would have understood why David had written that one verse. And there’s no way the writer of Hebrews could go back and create those lines in the Old Testament. They were a thousand years old.
RD: Yes. And Paul couldn’t change the historical facts that were necessary to make Jesus’ life fit the requirements for the Messiah. The Jews had very complete genealogical records. They knew what tribe everyone came from. And Paul couldn’t just create a fictional predecessor that would serve to explain how Jesus who was not from the priestly tribe could legitimately be considered a priest. But the writer of Hebrews was inspired to reconcile the historical facts of Jesus life with the conditions that had been established in the Old Testament. Only, an omniscient, omnipotent God could put all that interconnected information into a unified record. This is just one example of the hundreds that show that Bible contains a significant body of information that connects the two testaments. This not only helps illustrate that the Bible possesses remarkable unity but also that only a supernatural mind could have planned and guided the revelation.
VK: This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for our God who created everything out of nothing except for His own unmatched power and creative decrees.
---- PRAYER FOR ADORATION OF THE CREATOR
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Genesis, chapter 14, verse 18, New International Version

Episode 203 – Eternal Information – Part 11 – Doubt Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script: Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. The Gospel of John, chapter 14, verse 1, New King James Version

******** VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re glad that you’re able to join us here today on Anchored by Truth. For several episodes now we have been working on a series we call “Eternal Information.” We’ve covered a lot of ground so far in this series. If you have missed some of the earlier episodes we encourage you to go to our website crystalseabooks.com where they are all available. This has been a fascinating series because in it we have talked about yet another way where we can be assured that God is creator of everything in our universe. Today, in the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, we have spent a lot of time in this series discussing information because the existence of information – any information at all – pretty much assures us that the God of the Bible must exist. Do I have that right? RD: Absolutely. But before we go too far into our discussion I would also like to say hi to everyone and welcome them to Anchored by Truth. At Anchored by Truth we have one central focus – to help people discover or rediscover a basic truth: the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. But we cannot be assured that the Bible is the word of God unless we have first assured ourselves that God exists. You can’t very well believe in the Bible without first believing in God. And most Christians know that there is a branch of study called “apologetics” that focuses on demonstrating that God does, in fact, exist. VK: So, in that sense we might think of the study of information as a new apologetic approach. Studying information can complement other more widely know apologetic approaches such as the cosmological approach and the teleological approach. The cosmological approach to apologetics reasons that we can be sure that God exists because He is, and must be, the Ultimate Cause for the effect that we call the universe. The teleological approach reasons that since we can perceive design throughout nature, but especially in living creatures, that there must be a Designer behind all that design. Design requires a Designer. A created order requires a Creator. In a similar way all information requires the existence of intelligence. Information absent intelligence isn’t information at all. It’s just nonsense or gobbledygook. RD: Yes. That’s a great summary of why we started this series on information. I was prompted to dig into information by Dr. Werner Gitt’s book called In the Beginning was Information. The title is an obvious play on the first verse of the Bible and the book leads us to the very same point that Genesis 1:1 makes. In the beginning God created the heavens and earth. That’s the most succinct way of stating the cosmological apologetic approach that is possible. If we believe in God we don’t have to wonder where the heavens and the earth come from. If we don’t then we have to try to fashion some other explanation. VK: And of course people being sinful have tried to fashion alternatives. It’s just that those alternatives always wind up leaving the doubter with more questions than answers. God has fashioned His creation, His universe, in such a way that you can’t avoid noticing His work and His fingerprints. RD: And that’s a good introduction to the subject I want to tackle today: doubt. There are obviously many in our culture today who doubt the existence of God. Some are militant about it and write books and create theories and even gather large followings with their doubt. Others are more subtle or quiet about their doubts. And doubts about God are not uncommon even among Christians. But what I want to show everyone today is that, while doubts about the Bible or God are common, they are also not informative nor are they necessary. It is possible for us to develop such a deep understanding and awareness of God and His word that doubts will vanish like fog before a rising sun. VK: I’m not sure if that is good news or bad news. I think most people probably begin their Christian journey with some level of doubt. And I suspect that there are many who have been Christian for years or decades who still have doubts. Maybe not doubts about the existence of God per se but certainly doubts about parts of the Christian faith. RD: You’re absolutely right about doubts being pervasive even among people who identify as Christian. So, doubts are certainly not uncommon. But I’ll repeat myself. Even though doubts are common they are not necessary and it is possible to have the kind of Christian faith that does not doubt that God exists, the Bible is His word, and that God will never leave them or forsake them. This is a subject I’ve been wanting to discuss for a while but it fits in very nicely with the themes that we have been talking about in this Eternal Information series. We’ve talked a lot in this series about the fact that information is an essential component of our universe. VK: Because even if someone wanted to claim that our universe does not contain information they would be trying to communicate information to make their denial. RD: Yep. And information, as distinguished from matter and energy, is non-material. Information can be transmitted, received, or stored by matter and energy but the matter and energy do not affect the content of the information. VK: You can use the same note card to write a recipe for apple pie, or the instructions to build a submarine, or describe your feelings for a person you just met. The chemical composition of the pen and note card don’t control what goes on the card. RD: Right. Matter and energy may enable us to pass and receive information, but they don’t create the information. So, information is non-material and it also reflects intelligence. For information to exist then somewhere there must be a non-material source of intelligence. Otherwise we’re left with the proposition that information pops into existence like magical dust in a fairy tale. VK: Magical dust in a fairy tale – really? RD: We are so used to using information that we forget that everything we see or know about must have a point of origin. And as Dr. Jonathan Sarfati pointed out when he was here explaining the operation of a thing is quite different from explaining its origin. And that’s one of the weaknesses of our contemporary culture. We no longer build coherent world views that people once took for granted. As a consequence we have begun to embrace blatant contradictions that people would have once rejected out of hand. Never before in human history has there been a society that accepted the notion that men could become women or women become men. VK: Our culture seems to have a lot in common with the society to which Isaiah preached. In Isaiah, chapter 5, verse 20, God had Isaiah say, “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” Isaiah said that there were people in his country who had turned values on their head. They had gone beyond simple tolerance to trying to reclassify the differences between good and evil behavior. Of course, that’s always a futile effort. Just look what happened in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve tried to substitute their judgment for God’s. RD: Exactly. And it’s important to remember that all the mischief in the garden, and a great deal of subsequent mischief in humanity, began with doubt. VK: You know you rarely think about that but the very first thing that Satan did when tempting Eve was to introduce doubt into her mind. Satan didn’t start out with a direct temptation but he started out by trying to get Eve to doubt God’s goodness. In Genesis, chapter 3, the latter half of verse 1 records that Satan said to Eve, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” Satan’s question was intended to sound almost innocent, as if he were seeking clarification. But Satan’s intent was clear. As various translations put it, Satan was “subtle” or “crafty.” Satan knew if he started out just contradicting God Eve might push back. So, he started with an indirect approach. He started by creating doubt. RD: And we see the fruit of that same phenomenon going on around us today. A lot of people don’t realize that when Charles Darwin released the early versions of his most famous work, Origin of the Species, that in the first two versions he made a reference that almost sounds Biblical. VK: In the 1st version of Origin Darwin wrote, in his Conclusion: “ … I should infer from analogy that probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial form, into which life was first breathed.” And, in the 2nd edition, Darwin added “by the Creator” to the end of the sentence. RD: Right. Now many commentators aren’t sure whether Darwin actually believed in some form of supernatural creator or whether his inclusion of this reference was a public relations maneuver – designed to avoid alienating the public even further from views he knew would be controversial. But we’re not really sure because Darwin never made his exact views public. But the point is this. The early versions of the book that set off the widespread embrace of evolution didn’t start out by directly refuting the book of Genesis. It just introduced doubt about whether Genesis needed to be accepted as history. That was the thin edge of the wedge that has turned into the evolutionary Grand Canyon. Today evolution is taught in virtually every class on biology, geology, or paleontology all around the world. Just like in the Garden of Eden just a bit of initial doubt has led an ark’s worth of mischief. But this series is about information so primarily what I want to point out today is something that we rarely think about. VK: Which is? RD: That doubt is not evidence and doubt is only useful information insofar as it gives us insight into the mind of the doubter. VK: I think we’re going to need some more ... information … on what you’re getting out. RD: Well, we started out today talking about the fact that doubts are not informative. In other words, doubts don’t provide anyone new or additional information unless we’re just talking about the doubter themselves. For instance, if someone tells us that they have doubts about God’s existence that tells us what they think but it doesn’t tell us anything about whether God actually exists. Doubts are doubts but that’s all they are. VK: So, what you’re saying that doubts don’t impart any real information about the subject that is really at issue. If someone goes to the doctor and tells the doctor they’re having stomach pains and they think they have cancer the doctor may respond “I doubt that.” But that really doesn’t give the patient any new information other than the doctor’s thinking at that moment. But, if the doctors says we’ve done blood work, various scans or procedures, and comprehensively reviewed your symptoms and there’s no sign of cancer, now the patient has new information. The doctor’s doubt may be of some comfort to the patient but it has little to no informative value. But the results of the blood work and scans does give the patient information that they can act upon. RD: Exactly. Doubts are minimally informative and they are never evidence that pertains to the substance of an issue. And yet in our society, and even within the church, we treat doubts as if the existence of the doubt actually had bearing on issues or facts. And that’s what I want to draw people’s attention to today. As a church we have to quit treating doubt, our own or others’, as if the existence of the doubt gives us reason to question our faith. VK: Which we do all the time. If we go into a room and someone says, “I doubt whether chapter 1 of Genesis is literal history” all of a sudden people in the room start wondering about Genesis. And their questions about the truth of Genesis will be magnified is others in the room also express the same doubts. Pretty soon people may become convinced that somehow chapter 1 of Genesis is questionable even if no one has given a single actual fact that would call the Genesis account into question. I think I see what you want us to focus on. We have a tendency in our culture to treat doubt – especially doubts about God or the Bible – as if they actually meant something. But they don’t. RD: My point is that doubt is meaningful to the doubter but there is no particular reason it should be meaningful to anyone else. Someone else’s doubts do not, or at least should not, have any impact on our own beliefs or faith. But all too often they do. And this should be true even when the doubts are dressed up in elegant language or supposedly expressed by authority figures such as college professors. We should not let the doubts of others color our own thinking except in one regard. VK: What’s that? RD: Doubt is ok as long as what the doubt does is serve as a launching point for our investigation of the truth. VK: So, if someone expresses doubt about the historicity of chapter 1 of Genesis and that prompts us to begin an exploration of the science and facts that can shed light on the question, that’s not a bad thing. Someone might tell us that chapter 1 of Genesis was never intended to be interpreted as history, only as a poetic expression of God’s creative attributes. So, we can then do research into the form of literature contained in Genesis 1, what various scholars have written about that chapter, or how Biblical figures, especially Jesus, view chapter 1. All of that research can yield actual information that can help us make an informed judgment for ourselves about the historicity of chapter 1. But far too often, we don’t do that. We simply receive the doubt and begin to let it color our own views. RD: Right. And that’s why I wanted to include this discussion about doubt in our series on information. We have talked extensively in this series about the fact that information has to do with the transmission of content for an intended purpose. Doubts alone are essentially devoid of content – again other than what they tell us about the doubter. If someone says, “I doubt that God exists because of thus and so,” then we can address the “thus and so.” But if someone just tells us they doubt whether God exists and doesn’t provide any explanation for why they have doubts then there is very little that we can do with that. Their doubts tell them and us that they have uncertainty about something – and of course we are concerned about uncertainties people have about God and the Bible. But their uncertainty does not give us any reason to accept their uncertainty into our own belief or faith. We can address reasons that people may feel uncertain, but all too often Christians treat the uncertainty, the doubt, of others as if the doubt possessed meaning, as if it had informational content. It doesn’t. VK: So, the point that we are trying to make in this episode is too often you will hear a Christian say something like “I didn’t question my faith until I went to college and found out other students had begun to question theirs.” There are legitimate questions about faith and the Bible that may arise and we need, as faithful followers of Christ, to be able and prepared to address them. But the doubts or questions others have are just that doubts and questions. We need to avoid the temptation to turn their leaden doubts into some kind of philosophical gold idol to which we must then pay homage. Sadly, though you see that happen continuously in our society and even in the church. “I didn’t doubt until my friends did” is all too often a common refrain. And as you have said, Satan manufactured the fall out of a seed of doubt. RD: Doubt is not informative except about the state of mind of the doubter. And what is true of the doubt an individual possesses does not make it more true for many, dozens, or thousands of individuals. Collective doubt has no more informative value about a question than does individual doubt. Truth is not determined by popular vote. Truth is that which corresponds to reality and doubt about the truth does not affect the truth at all. VK: It’s both sad and funny that the nature of reality, science, and logic confirm that life could not have arisen from non-living matter unless there was an outside force that acted upon the matter. Or, as Darwin himself said, “some … primordial form, into which life was first breathed …” Science tells us that physics plus chemistry does not equal biology. Only the information content present in DNA and other living machinery permits the transformation of physics plus chemistry into biology. That is an absolutely certain statement and yet doubt abound about it. Conversely, the General Theory of Evolution makes outlandish claims such as inanimate molecules organized themselves one day and turned into a cellular structure containing 100 billion atoms. Claims like bacteria turned into biochemists, the bacteria having arisen from a pre-biotic soup that covered the entire planet. But there is no evidence for the prebiotic soup even in the oldest dated rocks. And there is no way that random mutations could have enabled genetic information to escalate in complexity so much that it would turn a DNA molecule that contains 500,000 base pairs into human DNA molecule with its 3 billion base pairs. But you hardly ever hear anyone express doubts about a process that isn’t just improbable but scientifically impossible. But point out that the Bible provides a cogent explanation for everything that exists and doubts drop out of the heavens like raindrops during a hurricane. RD: Doubts dropping like raindrops – really? VK: Really. RD: But your point is well taken. People have good, solid reasons based in science and fact to believe in God and the Bible but they seem to be oh-so-willing to embrace the doubts about them even when no one provides a basis for the doubt. Yet, they will cling to discredited ideas about the universe popping into existence from nothing and living creatures spontaneously arising from pond scum and scarcely ever express doubts or reservations. And what we are trying to help people understand there is no need to do that. Information, accurate information, is the antidote to the poison of doubt. And it is high time for those of us who possess the accurate information about the truth of God, Genesis, and the Bible be willing to convey it and defend it. The stakes for not doing so are truly eternal. VK: This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of for those people who have eaten from the tree of doubt and allowed its bitter fruit to become a part of their lives. Today we’re all praying for those who need a new spiritual life in Christ Jesus. ---- PRAYER FOR THE SPIRITUALLY LOST VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!” (Bible Quote from the New King James Version) The Gospel of John, chapter 14, verse 1, New King James Version

Episode 204 – Eternal Information – Part 12 – Confidence
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
I will destroy my people because they are ignorant. You have refused to learn, so I will refuse to let you be my priests.
Hosea, chapter 4, verse 6, God’s Word Translation

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re so happy that you’re with us here today on Anchored by Truth as we wrap up a series we called “Eternal Information.” This has been a fascinating series because during it we have talked about yet another way we can be assured that God is the creator of everything. Today, as we conclude and summarize what we’ve covered in the series we have RD Fierro back in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, we use information every day and we take its existence for granted. But information could not exist if the universe consisted only of matter and energy could it?
RD: No. It couldn’t. But before we go to much farther I would also like to welcome everyone and thank them for joining us as we close out this rather extensive view of information. Simply put, information only exists where there is intelligence. Information is an organized system of units or symbols capable of containing or conveying purpose or meaning. I know that sometimes subjects like the laws of information and how information is necessary for life can seem pretty far removed from what people think about when someone mentions the Bible or Christianity or faith. But that’s why we opened our episode today with that quote from the Old Testament prophet Hosea. Hosea makes the link between knowledge and service to Christ abundantly clear.
VK: Just to be sure we’re clear, our opening scripture for this episode was Hosea 4:6 which says, “I will destroy my people because they are ignorant. You have refused to learn, so I will refuse to let you be my priests.” That’s from the God’s Word Translation. The New International Version puts it this way. “… my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. “Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests …”
RD: Yes. God is speaking in that verse. And God is saying that because his people – in this case the inhabitants of Old Testament Israel – have rejected the knowledge of His law, He is going to reject them as serving as His priests. A priest was someone who represented the people before God.
VK: A prophet was someone who represented God before the people. Conversely, a priest was someone who represented the people before God.
RD: And in this verse God is connecting knowledge with service to Him. He is specifically saying that He wants His people to possess knowledge of Him and His law for them to be qualified to represent Him before the nations. Jesus would later say the same thing from a slightly different perspective when He said that the greatest commandment was to love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind.
VK: That’s the Gospel of Mark, chapter 12, verse 30. In the New Living Translation that verse says, “And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.”
RD: Yes. Jesus was telling His audience that God wants us to love and worship God with our entire beings. Yet, in our contemporary church all too often we focus almost exclusively on the hearts of believers and not their minds. And while it is certainly true that we must always be concerned about appealing to people’s hearts, we must never ignore their minds. If we do so, we are not only ignoring a specific command of the Lords but we are also denying them an important, and maybe the most important source of spiritual power.
VK: The command you are thinking about is Romans, chapter 12, verse 2 which says, “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.” That’s from the New International Version. So, the command is very clear. We are not to be conformed to “the pattern of this world.” And the way we avoid that is by being transformed “by the renewing of your mind.” But why do you say that if we don’t follow this command we may be sacrificing a source of spiritual power?
RD: Because any and all spiritual power that a Christian ever possesses must come from God. By ourselves we are totally at the mercy of the world, the flesh, and the devil. Simply put if are not connected with God, united with God, we are going to be adrift in the world like a boat without an anchor.
VK: That’s why we call this show Anchored by Truth. And why we open every episode by encouraging people to anchor themselves to the only true source of eternal life the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God – the Bible.
RD: Amen. Back to our verse from Hosea – God said that He would reject the people who reject knowledge – specifically the knowledge of his law. God’s law is contained in the Bible. Then our verse from Romans tells us to renew our minds so we won’t be conformed to the pattern of this world. Flip that verse around. It warns that if we don’t “renew our minds” we will wind up being conformed to the pattern of this world. No one can be conformed to the pattern of this world and possess God’s power. And if we don’t possess God’s power we will not have the ability to remain godly in a godless world.
VK: You know this may very well be what the Apostle Paul was warning his disciple Timothy about in 2 Timothy. In 2 Timothy, chapter 3, verses 4 and 5 Paul warned Timothy that a day was coming when people would “… betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly.” That does seem to be a characteristic of our age.
RD: Sadly, it is and I am firmly persuaded it is because so many Christians in our day and age don’t want to make the investment in their faith of understanding not only its content but also its intellectual underpinnings which includes subjects like apologetics. In the most basic sense apologetics is simply the area of study that teaches us how to be confident in our faith – confident that God exists, confident that the Bible is God’s word, and confident that the lies that the world pushes are not true.
VK: And in our last episode of Anchored by Truth we spent the whole episode talking about doubt – about how doubts can sometimes seem so real and yet doubt has little to no informative value.
RD: Right. So, I wanted to close out this series on information with the positive side – how the study of apologetic systems and approaches, including the study of areas like information, can increase our confidence in our faith. Let’s face it. Today the shifting tides of cultural chaos are surging around us. In fact in many ways we are dealing with a tsunami of cultural dysfunction. And you can couple that with the fact that people in the church are regularly confronted with what I would label denominational deviance. That’s the bad news. But the good news is that in Christ, through the renewing of our minds and our commitment to the truth of His word, we are more than overcomers. The really good news about Christianity is that it is true. So, even when Christians feel doubt that does not change the fact that they are still saved eternally because of Jesus’s finished work on the cross.
VK: And what we want at Anchored by Truth is for our listeners, everyone really, to experience the confidence and peace of knowing that fact. But the world these days does not make that easy. Today the world attempts to raise innumerable barricades to block the “narrow gate” that opens to salvation. In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 7, verses 13 and 14 Jesus said, “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.” That’s from the New Living Translation.
RD: And today those barricades inevitably start with informational questions. If the universe and earth are billions of years old how can Genesis chapter 1 be true? What evidence is there that there was ever a worldwide flood? If Moses wrote all of the first five books of the Bible why did he use different names for God? How could the prophets in the Bible have information about the distant future? Today, informational questions are thrown at believers not just daily but every time they turn on a TV, look something up on the internet, or enter a classroom. It can be a lot for people to have to overcome.
VK: But we don’t have to overcome the world. Jesus has already done that for us. In the Gospel of John, chapter 16, verse 33 Jesus said, “I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” That’s also from the New Living Translation.
RD: Right. Jesus has overcome the world. But one of the ways He overcame the world is by giving us His word which is always available to strengthen and comfort us. And another way He overcame the world is by giving us the ability to make observations about the world around us and think logically about what we can see. And when we do so, we see that without God the world we know could not exist in the absence of a supernatural, omniscient, omnipotent Being who could create everything and impart the ability to observe and reason to the creature He created in His own image.
VK: We then can pose our own questions. If the universe is eternal why do the laws of thermodynamics tell us that the universe will one day run out of energy? If galaxies and stars can form from interstellar clouds of dust why do scientists tell us that 85% of the matter is “dark” meaning we cannot see it or detect it? If living creatures are the result of the random collision of inanimate particles why can’t supposedly intelligent people create life in a laboratory from non-living chemicals? How did 100 billion atoms of just the right type collide all of a sudden at just the right place and form the first cell? And how did that collision occur when there was just the right energy source available to provide the energy necessary for it to feed, live, and reproduce? So, Christians have our own set of questions that need answering before we would need to accept the Big Bang and evolution as being the best explanation for why the universe is the way we see it.
RD: And that brings us back to what we have learned in this series on information. Information is present in the universe and in our own experience but information is not created, and does not interact, with matter or energy. Apple trees produce apples. Orange trees produce oranges. Dogs produce puppies. Cats produce kittens. Like produces like. Information is massless and non-material. So, material causes cannot produce a non-material phenomenon. And information is not present if intelligence is not present. Therefore the non-material source that gives rise to information must also be intelligent.
VK: And, unless you acknowledge the existence of God, that would be a big enough conundrum all by it. But we also see information present in living creatures. DNA is not just an information storage and organization system but it is one that is far more complicated than any information system yet created by man. The human body produces somewhere between 100,000 and 300,000 individual proteins but human DNA only contains about 20 to 25,000 genes. To produce all those individual proteins the genes within DNA must sometimes act in concert with one another. So, the 1st level of information within DNA is the information that is simply stored in the sequence of DNA “letters” – the 4 different kinds of bases that are the letters of the genetic code. But the 2nd level of information within DNA is the information that is stored when various sections of DNA actually interconnect with one another to perform additional functions.
RD: And there is a 3rd level of information stored in DNA which results from the 3-D configuration with which DNA is stored within a cell. A single strand of human DNA contains about 3 Billion base pairs and would be 6 feet long if it were uncoiled. But it is present within the 30 to 40 trillion cells in a normal adult. To store the DNA molecule it is folded into a complicated shape and yet we find out that the folded shape also provides information to the cell to enable the cell to carry out its functions properly. Moreover, there is a 4th level of information that DNA supplies which is that as we go through our lives how DNA behaves actually changes. It is, in effect, a dynamic reprogramming system that functions throughout our lives. This is a level of information sophistication that has never been achieved in any human information system.
VK: And all of this sophistication isn’t even the end of how amazing DNA really is or how it performs. DNA has its own unique repair system because every time we go out into the sun we are bombarded with minute amounts of cosmic radiation that would decimate our DNA if it could not repair itself. But it can. And the scientists who explored that repair system won a Nobel prize for their discovery. Furthermore, there are delicate and sophisticated motors that carefully control the DNA replication process. If these motors didn’t precisely guide the unraveling of the double helix it would be a tangled mess that would never allow it to be duplicated. And a creature that can’t duplicate its DNA wouldn’t live very long. And all of this informational complexity is present just within the DNA system. We haven’t even begun to address RNA, protein construction, how the cell’s permeable membrane is built. This cellular sophistication generates an entirely new set of questions that a world that doubts God can’t answer.
RD: Exactly. The more we probe into the mysteries of life the more we realize the inadequacy of the answers that the God-alternatives provide. It’s impossible to explain the existence of intelligence in a universe that would be comprised of only matter and energy. That would make intelligence the product of random chaos. I can’t think of many things that are more unreasonable. But, even if somehow, a godless science could answer those questions we then get into the question of the supernatural intelligence which is displayed in the Bible.
VK: The Bible is a unique book. It was written by over 3 dozen authors over a period of 1,500 years but it contains a unified message about creation, fall, and redemption. Yet it presents that message while giving people information about living better lives, managing money, overcoming troubles, raising families, and organizing a more fair and responsible society. If the only information we gained from the Bible was by reading it from left to right, front to back it would be an amazing work. But besides the pragmatic information the Bible contains it also contains an unparalleled body of prophetic information.
RD: Indeed – or as I sometimes say in our Life Lessons - exactamundo.
VK: Exactamundo – again. Really?
RD: Really. The body of accurate prophetic information in the Bible is enormous. Moses wrote the 1st five books of the Bible besides leading the Hebrews out of Egypt. But in addition Moses was also a prophet. He gave several prophecies that would later come true in the future of the Israelite nation and Moses foretold the future arrival of the Messiah. David was the 2nd king of the Jewish nation and in many ways its most successful king but he was also a prophet. God revealed to David that the coming Messiah would be David’s descendant which is why the Jews were so focused on whether or not Jesus was a “son of David.” David wrote several Messianic psalms including Psalm 22 which describes a crucifixion experience before that method of execution was used. He also wrote Psalm 110 where he prophesied that the coming Messiah would be a king and priest combined like the Old Testament figure Melchizedek. Only Jesus every satisfied this criteria.
VK: The prophet Isaiah provided the name of the Persian emperor who would release the Jews from the Babylonian captivity 150 years before Cyrus arrived on the world scene. He also prophesied that a confederation of Israel and Syria would fail in their attempts to conquer Jerusalem which they did. And he prophesied that the Messiah would be born of a virgin. Daniel was a Hebrew captive of the Babylonians but he named a series of 4 empires that would dominate the Middle East for over 500 years and the series unfolded just as he said. And Daniel gave the famous prophecy of “seventy weeks” which actually foretold the exact day Jesus would enter Jerusalem just prior to his death.
RD: Right. By studying the Bible carefully we see that there was prophet after prophet that was inspired by God and gave the world information about the future that only an eternal God who sees all of history accurately could possess. Men can’t predict the weather more than a few days out but God gave His prophets names, places, and events centuries ahead of time. As we said during this series if natural information requires the presence of natural intelligence, supernatural information requires the presence of supernatural intelligence. And the Bible’s evidence of supernatural intelligence isn’t just contained within its pragmatic and prophet information. It’s also contained within the interconnected details we can see between the Old and New Testaments. We covered some of that in our 10th episode in this series and used the example of Melchizedek to illustrate this point.
VK: So, the point that we have tried to make in this series is by applying ourselves just a bit we can overcome the stumbling blocks that the world, the flesh, and the devil would like to place in our path to the narrow gate that leads to salvation. Satan manufactured the fall out of a seed of doubt. But God has given us the ability to think clearly to refute those doubts and approach our lives with a spirit of confidence in our faith, in our Bible, and in our God. But as we started out saying we do have to embrace this knowledge to acquire this confidence.
RD: Well, as you have said, “God expects us to do our own homework.” That I think is part of what Jesus referred to when he admonished his followers to take His yoke on their own shoulders. Now, His yoke is easy and His burden is light but it is not non-existent. We live in a fallen creation. We face a hostile world. And the Devil roams about looking for people to devour. We can’t change any of that. But what we can do is what Jesus asks us to do – love Him and the Father with all our soul, hearts, strength, and minds. I am always struck by the fact that when Jesus gave that commandment He used an “and” and not an “or.” Jesus didn’t say to love God with our hearts “or” our minds but with them both. We have free will. We can obey Him or not obey Him. What we can’t do is disobey Him without consequence.
VK: People have good, solid reasons based in science and fact to believe in God and the Bible but all too often we seem to be willing to embrace the doubts without being willing to do what it takes to change that doubt into confidence. They will cling to discredited ideas about the universe popping into existence from nothing and living creatures spontaneously arising from pond scum and scarcely ever express doubts or reservations. We want to help people understand there is no need to do that. Information, accurate information, is the antidote to the poison of doubt. The stakes for us not doing so are truly eternal and – worse – for the mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers their unwillingness to set a positive pattern can affect many other lives. None of us should want to be like the people Hosea spoke to – where we risk being rejected as being a suitable witness for God because we wouldn’t embrace the knowledge that is readily available. This sounds like a good time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of for those people who place their lives and safety at risk to serve and save others. We should all be willing to exchange a bit of our time and entertainment to serve others by having the answers that could bring eternal life to our friends and family.
---- PRAYER FOR FIRST RESPONDERS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the God’s Word Translation)
Hosea, chapter 4, verse 6, God’s Word Translation

Episode 205 – Ten Commandments – Part 1 – Transcendent Moral Principles
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
You saw what I did in Egypt, and you know how I brought you here to me … Now if you will faithfully obey me, you will be my very own people. The whole world is mine …
Exodus, Chapter 19, verses 4 and 5, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re excited to be with you. And we pray that you are having a year filled with joy and blessings, especially the joy of having a closer fellowship with our Lord Christ Jesus. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to start a new series. As just about everyone knows, the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last decade than probably in the first two centuries of the country’s existence. But, frankly, the challenges being brought against the Christian faith are nothing new. They started the moment the first believers began testifying about the risen Christ almost 2,000 years ago. But, as Jesus promised, the Christian faith has survived all the challenges brought against it. And it will survive those of today. Why? Because the Christian faith is true. So, to continue our exploration of the reason and evidence that demonstrate that Christianity is true, today in the studio we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, what is this new series that you have decided to launch?
RD: Well, today I want to begin a discussion of a part of the Bible that is familiar to most people: the Ten Commandments. But I want to look at the commandments from a slightly different perspective. I think most people view the Ten Commandments as exactly that – commands given to us by God. But I wonder how many of stop and contemplate that God didn’t give us the commandments for His benefit. He gave them to us for our benefit. God gave us the Ten Commandments not just because He wanted to put restrictions or limits on His people but because He wanted His people to know how to live godly, productive, and joyful lives. And if we follow and obey the commandments they will enable us to do exactly that.
VK: I think that is a very different perspective from the one that most people bring to the commandments. Eight of the Ten Commandments are generally phrased as negatives – “do not” or as in the King James Bible “thou shalt not.” In other words eight of the ten are prohibitions. They tell us what we’re not allowed to do. Only the 4th and 5th commandments are usually phrased as positive commands. In the King James Version the 4th commandment tells us to “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” and the 5th commandment says to “Honor thy father and thy mother.” But all of the others are some form of “thou shalt not” such as the 6th commandment which is “Thou shalt not kill.” So, all those “thou shalt nots” sure sounds like God is just putting limits on people.
RD: But there are two important things that we should note right away. First, scholars and commentators have long noted that all of the commandments are both prescriptive and proscriptive regardless of how they are phrased in a particular Bible translation. Said slightly differently, all of the commandments tell us to do certain things even if the commandment is normally phrased as a “do not.”
VK: I think we’re going to need an example of what you’re thinking about.
RD: Well, let’s take a look at the 6th commandment which you quoted from the King James Version. In the KJV it says “thou shalt not kill.” In most of the modern translations like the New International Version or the English Standard Version that commandment is more accurately stated, “You shall not murder.” The prohibition is not that we are never to take a life but rather we are never to take an innocent human life. We are never to take a life where there is no just cause for doing so. Christian commentators and theologians have long noted that God even commanded capital punishment for certain crimes in the Old Testament so the KJV use of the word “kill” instead of “murder” is somewhat misleading in our day and age.
VK: And Christian commentators and theologians have also often talked about a “just war” theory – that sometimes it is necessary for a nation to take up arms and use deadly force to defend itself or an innocent neighboring nation. But the point of the 6th commandment is that no one, governments included, are permitted to take the lives of human beings who have done nothing wrong – and that includes babies in the womb. Not even a government has the legitimate power to take away the life of a person who has not committed an act that merits the loss of their individual life. And certainly there is no way an unborn baby could ever do anything to warrant having its life sacrificed.
RD: At any rate, the 6th commandment is usually phrased “you shall not or must not murder.” But this prohibition carries with it a clear prescription that we must do whatever is in our power to protect human life. So, the person who fails to throw a life preserver to someone who is drowning, when they have the capacity to do so, is violating the 6th commandment even though they may not have pushed the person into the water. The 6th commandment, like all the commandments, must be viewed as having both negative and affirmative aspects.
VK: In effect, the 6th commandment is what underscores most, if not all, so-called “social justice.” We must endeavor to feed the hungry and provide care for those unable to care for themselves because to not do so would imperil their lives.
RD: Exactly. Protecting innocent human life is a natural and necessary extension of the 6th commandment. Yet, how often do we hear the social justice warriors acknowledge that?
VK: But even this simple example starts to show the real depth, breadth, and width of what the Ten Commandments are really all about. And when we start to approach the Ten Commandments from that perspective I begin to see what you are talking about. We often view the Ten Commandments as if God just wanted to put a limit on our ability to somehow be free or happy. But what God was really doing in the Ten Commandments was setting up the basis for people to have peaceful, productive, and purposeful lives and to be able to build supportive families and communities.
RD: And that’s one of the big things that we want to get into during this series. God gave us the Ten Commandments for our benefit, not for His. God is infinite. He is without limits except those of His own righteous and holy character. Because God is perfectly righteous He cannot do anything evil or violate His own laws. His laws reflect His character. He is all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfect in all His attributes. God is quite literally beyond need. God doesn’t need anything. God doesn’t lack anything. No one can give God anything He doesn’t already have.
VK: After all, if you can speak the entire universe into existence with just a word what is it that anyone or anything could give you?
RD: Exactly. So, God did not need to issue the commandments to somehow make His existence better. He gave the Ten Commandments to us to make our world and our lives better. And that is the reason that, while other parts of the ancient Hebrew laws are no longer necessary or applicable to our lives today, the Ten Commandments still are.
VK: I think that this is an area where there is a lot of confusion among Christians. Many people may not know that the laws that God gave to Moses on the mountain go beyond the Ten Commandments. They may not know that Levitical code addressed a wide variety of subjects that applied to the lives of the ancient Hebrews with a great deal of specificity. I think many people may be generally aware that the Old Testament contains prescriptions and proscriptions beyond those in the commandments but I don’t think many people know much about them. And, frankly, even when we read about them in our Bibles they just seem so odd or strange to modern readers we just have a tendency to gloss over them. What is the modern reader to make of the extensive instructions for building the tabernacle in the latter chapters of the book of Exodus or the instructions to priests about checking mold in houses in Leviticus?
RD: Agreed. There are many parts of the Old Testament that are strange to us when we read them the first time. But all of them are important for our understanding of the Bible and many of them provide solid evidence that the books of the Bible are accurate historically and consistent with what we know about human history. Broadly speaking the first five books of the Bible, the Pentateuch, are often called the “Law” when referring to the composition of the Old Testament. The Jews divided what we call the Old Testament into 3 sections: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. The first five books were the “Law” but obviously they contain subjects beyond rules and regulations such as history and even poetry.
VK: And, apart from the first five books of the Old Testament, there is a different order between the books of the Hebrew Bible and that of most current Bibles. The subdivision called the “Prophets” consisted of eight books in the following order: Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and the Twelve which we call the Minor Prophets. The “Writings” consisted of eleven books in this order: Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Lamentations, Daniel, Esther, Ezra-Nehemiah, and Chronicles. The Book of Ruth moved around. It was originally placed before the Psalms, but in the Middle Ages it was relocated next to the other smaller books, such as Song of Solomon and Esther.
RD: So, the term “Law” sometimes is used to refer to the first five books of our Bible. In that sense “law” was essentially a literary organizational term. But the term “law” also applied to the fairly large body of specific rules and regulations that governed the daily lives and their religious practices of the ancient Hebrews. In that sense it was a legal term though of course their law governed religious practices in addition to prescribing civil codes of conduct (which is how we typically think of the word “law” today). And it is from that use that much of the confusion arises about what rules and regulations were applicable only to the ancient Hebrews versus what rules continue to apply today. Broadly speaking, the Old Testament “law” consisted of 3 different bodies of regulations: ceremonial laws that governed religious practices, civil laws that governed their society in a manner similar to how our civil law applies today, and enduring or transcendent moral and ethical principles.
VK: And the Ten Commandments are enduring transcendent moral principles. In other words when God pronounced them God intended for them to apply to all people at all times. But this differentiated them from the ceremonial laws that governed the ancient Hebrew religious practices especially their system of sacrifices and festivals. The sacrificial system that was codified after the Israelites left Egypt had one specific purpose. It pointed forward to the ultimate sacrifice that God Himself would make when He sent His only begotten Son to die on a cross to save His people from their sins. During the Old Testament period the sacrificial system was necessary to point to an ultimate atoning sacrifice that was still forthcoming. But, as the writer of the book of Hebrews takes such pains to point out, Christ Jesus fulfilled perfectly the need for that atoning sacrifice. So, the old sacrificial system is no longer necessary. It has fulfilled it purpose. The writer of Hebrews put it this way: “The Law teaches that offerings and sacrifices must be made because of sin. But why did Christ mention these things and say that God did not want them? Well, it was to do away with offerings and sacrifices and to replace them. This is what he meant by saying to God, ‘I have come to do what you want.’ So we are made holy because Christ obeyed God and offered himself once for all.”
RD: Right. Christ’s life and death fulfilled the requirements of the Old Testament sacrificial system so the ceremonial portions of the law are no longer necessary. Similarly, the civil portions of the Old Testament law were largely intended to provide a basis for the civil government of the Israelites after they left and Egypt and settled into the Promised Land in Palestine. Speaking precisely the civil portions of the law was intended for a theocratic amphictyony and then a theocratic monarchy.
VK: A what?
RD: A theocratic amphictyony – broadly speaking an amphictyony is an association of neighboring states or tribes that act cooperatively for their common interest. Specifically, AMPHICTYONY most often referred to the association of neighboring states in ancient Greece to defend a common religious center. Remember, that for the first four-hundred years after the Israelites left Egypt there was no king in Israel. The individual tribes based on the patriarchal sons of Jacob/Israel largely governed themselves and they only came together when threatened by common enemies.
VK: In fact, Judges, chapter 21, verse 25 tells us “In those days [after the exodus] Israel wasn't ruled by a king, and everyone did what they thought was right.”
RD: Well, we don’t live in either a theocratic amphictyony or a monarchy. We live in a constitutional republic. As such our civil laws are enacted and enforced by elected representatives and executives not by appointed priests or hereditary descendants of a particular family. As such many of the laws that applied directly to the lives of the ancient Israelites no longer apply to us today.
VK: And we should note that many of the those laws were specifically intended for an agrarian culture where the overwhelming bulk of economic activity centered on farming and animal husbandry. Our economy still has an important agricultural component and we have some civil laws that govern it. But we need laws that govern modern forms of transportation, information acquisition and delivery, health care, etc. Our civil laws certainly mimic or echo some of what applied in ancient Israel but the specifics have obviously changed to accommodate changes in technology.
RD: Yes. And we should note that one of the reasons that we are going to such pains to explain the different components of the Old Testament law is because many critics of Christianity will try to take parts of the Bible out of context to denigrate and denounce Christianity. I’ve heard or seen mockers say something like, “well, I’d like to be a Christian but I’m not sure I can be because I often wear clothes made of polyester and cotton and I like to plant peppers and tomatoes in the same bed.”
VK: You’re alluding to Leviticus, chapter 19, verse 19 which says, “Breed your livestock animals only with animals of the same kind, and don't plant two kinds of seed in the same field or wear clothes made of different kinds of material.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version. The mocker wants to demean all of Christianity by taking admonitions that were given to a very specific group for a very specific purpose and then trying to turn those narrowly intended instructions into broader moral principles
RD: Yes. The mocking and the criticism can be easily refuted when you understand the composition of the Mosaic law and the Levitical code but I’m afraid not many Christians in our day and age can draw the necessary distinctions. But the big point that we need to focus on for today is that the Ten Commandments were never designed to be set aside. There will never come a time when they have outlived their purpose because their purpose was to establish the basis by which people should relate to God and to each other. In fact, I don’t think it’s an overstatement to say that the Ten Commandments – or at least the truths set forth in them - form the value structure for all stable civil society.
VK: That’s a big statement and, especially today, there would be a lot of people who disagree with it. I mean the first commandment is “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me.” That’s from the English Standard Version. But, there are obviously billions of people around the world who don’t worship the God of the Bible yet who live in communities that many classify as being stable.

RD: That’s true that they would say their communities are stable even though they don’t worship the God of the Bible. And while we don’t have time today to get into all the nuances of the first commandment let’s at least take a moment to consider some. In the first commandment God was certainly proclaiming that He was the one True God but that was not all He was doing. He was also establishing a basis for His authority and, in turn, for all earthly authority structures. Note that God gave the Hebrews an immediate reason that should obey the commandments and in giving that He alluded to the ultimate reason for all authority.
VK: The immediate reason He gave them for obeying Him was because He had just delivered them from being slaves to cruel masters. What you’re saying is that before God ever gave the Ten Commandments He said, in effect, to them “Look I’ve just delivered you from slavery in Egypt. That proves my love and concern for you. Now I’m going to give you some commands that will make your lives better and you can be sure of my desire for you live good lives because I’ve just shown you that’s what I want to do.” In other words, God proved His love for them before He presented His commands to them. The commands God gave were, and are, no less a manifestation of God’s love than His delivery of them from slavery.
RD: Yes. God delivered the Israelites from bondage in Egypt because He loved them. He gave them the Ten Commandments because He loved them. And one display of His love was His concern that they understand that life is best lived in acknowledging Him as the source of all order and blessing. The first commandment points out that the God who delivered them was also the God that created them, their world, and the universe. The first commandment should draw our attention to the fact that all things in creation originate with God and frankly will ultimately have to give an account to Him. The first commandment was a succinct way of saying “don’t content yourself with worshipping any lesser beings or things. Confine your worship to the One who can actually help you and to the one that orders all things on the earth as well as in heaven.”
VK: The Apostle Paul made it abundantly clear that all authority on earth originates with God. In Romans, chapter 13, verse 1, Paul said “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.” That’s from the New International Version.
RD: Yes. So, even people who live in communities or countries that do not worship the God of the Bible still have governmental authority structures. They have to if they want to remain stable. Countries without functioning governments always descend into anarchy which is never good for ordinary people. Some governments are tyrannical and others are benign. But some kind of authority structure is necessary for human beings to live in reasonable peace, safety, and harmony. So, when God gave the commandments He established that principle right up front by saying that He was the ultimate authority for all human affairs whether religious, family, social, civil, or economic.
VK: I see why you want to do this series on the Ten Commandments. We tend to think of them as just being a list of a couple of “do’s” and mostly “do not’s.” But the implications of the commandments literally affect every area of our lives.
RD: Absolutely. And the fact that the commandments transcend time, cultures, and nations is powerful evidence that they were given by an omniscient God who knew what was best for the creatures He created. And that’s an idea we’re going to stress over and over in this series.
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that God did not proclaim the Ten Commandments to make our lives more difficult or His existence better. He gave us the Ten Commandments so that we will know how to live better, more joyful, and more meaningful lives. And, frankly, if we’re so foolish as to disregard the commandments the only ones that we will be hurting will be ourselves. Well, sounds like we’re in for another thought-provoking expedition. Hopefully, not too many headaches. This sounds like a great time to pray. Since we have just been talking about the fact that all earthly authorities are established by God, today let’s listen to a prayer for our government officials especially that they would be good stewards of the authority that God has placed in their hands. They, like all of us, will ultimately have to give an account to God for how they used that authority.
---- PRAYER FOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)
Exodus, Chapter 19, verses 4 and 5, Contemporary English Version

Why Is There a Threefold Division of the Hebrew Canon? (Law, Prophets, Writings) by Don Stewart (blueletterbible.org)

Episode 206 – Ten Commandments – Part 2 – Ultimate Authority
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
I AM LORD JEHOVAH your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt mine …
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 2, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

********
VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re so happy that you are able to join us today. And we pray that you be blessed as you pursue a closer fellowship with our Lord Christ Jesus. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to continue the new series we began last on our last episode. Today in the studio we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, this new series that you launched is on the Ten Commandments which, surely, is one of the most familiar parts of the Bible. Even people who are not Christians have some degree of familiarity with the Ten Commandments. Why did you want to do a series on the best-known parts of the Bible? It seems like that would be a section for which not-much-explanation would be necessary.
RD: I decided we needed to do a series on the Ten Commandments precisely because it is so familiar. The Ten Commandments are so familiar to Christians, and even to our broader culture, that I think most people think that they understand them. I’d almost go so far as to say many people take them for granted even if they agree with them or trust in them. But today there are a lot of people who will dismiss the 10 commandments out of hand because, in their minds, they will say that nothing that was written 3,500 years ago can be relevant to our lives today.
VK: That, of course, is a silly or dangerous attitude because the 10 commandments contain prescriptions that are obviously very important to our daily lives like “you shall not steal” or “you shall not commit murder.” I don’t think very many people want to live in a society where those two commandments don’t apply.
RD: No, they don’t. But they would tell you that we don’t need the Ten Commandments to tell us not to murder or steal because we have civil laws that prohibit them. And it’s true that we do have civil laws that prohibit murder and theft. But what few people ever think about is the basis for our civil law or the basis for any law at all. And from just the standpoint of human existence that’s a question that is very important. And while we don’t think much about what provides the basis for the establishment of human law the people who founded America certainly had no doubts about the foundation for all human government.
VK: You’re thinking about that most-famous of the documents that founded the United States, the Declaration of Independence. And of course probably no part of the declaration is better known than, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men …”
RD: Yes. The Founding Fathers began all of their reasoning about government by going back to the beginning.
VK: And not to the beginning of the settlements in America but to the beginning of everything. That’s why that phrase “endowed by their Creator is so relevant and instructive. They could have just said “endowed by God” but they didn’t. They specifically used the word “Creator.”
RD: Yes. The overwhelming majority of the Founders were devout Christians who understood that God was sovereign. And they understood that God’s sovereignty derived from the fact that He had made everything. God didn’t just create people, though that fact is certainly important when it comes to talking about government. God created everything. The opening verse of the Bible tells us that. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” If we don’t understand that simple fact it is impossible to build a coherent worldview.
VK: The term “heavens and earth” is what is called a merism. A merism [MARE-ISM] is a figure of speech that combines two opposites as a way of making an all-inclusive reference - such as saying “I searched high and low” for a lost object. When the Bible uses the term “heavens and earth” it is a way of saying God created everything that exists. It was essentially the Hebrew equivalent of what we call the “universe.”
RD: And we see the echo of the first verse of the Bible in the introduction that God makes to the Ten Commandments that we heard about in our opening scripture.
VK: I noticed that you selected the version of Exodus, chapter 20, verse 2 from a version of the Bible we’ve never used before on Anchored by Truth. This version came from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. You obviously chose that for a reason.
RD: Indeed. Most versions or translations of the Bible like the New International Version or the English Standard Bible translate that verse as “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.” But we do Anchored by Truth as either a radio show or a podcast episode so we don’t have a visual. In the NIV or the ESB the word “Lord” in those versions is in all capital letters which is the way those versions indicate that the Hebrew word they are usually translating is “Yahweh” which is the personal name for God.
VK: We learn that “Yahweh” is God’s name from Exodus, chapter 3, verse 14 during the famous encounter of Moses with God at the burning bush. Moses asked God what name he should give when the Hebrews in Egypt asked who had sent him. God said to say “I am who I am.” Tell them “I am” has sent you. The word for “I am” is “Yahweh.” By saying that His name was “I am” God was telling Moses, and us, that God is self-existent. He possesses the power of existence unto and by Himself. God is the only Being that is self-existent. Human, animals, and even angels all derive their existence from Him. No one and nothing but God is self-existent. So, while many of us miss the big point of the name God gave to Moses the Hebrews of Moses’ day would not. “Yahweh” was such a sacred name among the ancient Jews that they wouldn’t speak it. The often just said “the Name.” The Greek version of “Yahweh” is “Jehovah.”
RD: Exactly. So, that’s why I used the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. That translation makes it plain that before God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses he was using the name for Himself that made it very plain why He possessed the authority to issue commandments. God may command human beings, and all creation for that matter, because God made human beings and all creation. Again, we’re back to a basic fact. God gets to tell people and the universe to behave because He made everything.
VK: And, frankly, even Christians tend to gloss over that introductory statement when we read that part of the Bible. But we shouldn’t. In that simple introduction to the commandments God is revealing a great many things – the first of which is “I have every right to issue the commands I’m giving you because I made you. Your very lives and existences are entirely dependent on me.” That’s not something we like to think about in our day and age is it?
RD: No. We are so surrounded by evolutionary and uniformitarianism ideas that even Christians drift away from an inescapable, bedrock fact that God, Yahweh-Jehovah, has complete authority over us and all creation because He made it and us. We understand in earthly affairs that the ability of a “lord” to exercise control over others is limited to only the sphere in which that lord possesses authority.
VK: I need to listen to and obey the orders of my boss but I don’t have to obey the boss of the business next door. State governors govern in their state but the moment they leave their state nobody in the neighboring state is subject to their authority. Even the grandest king or emperor who ever ruled in human history had a limited sphere of authority. No human being, ever, had authority over the whole earth. But God does have authority over the whole earth and every human being that has ever lived because God made the whole earth and every human being that has ever lived. God has control over creation in the same way a painter has control over their painting or a sculptor may create the sculpture as they see fit. I see why you wanted to address this subject before we moved on the substance of the first commandment “you shall have no other gods before me.”
RD: The first commandment is not just reasonable but righteous because of this introduction. God prohibited the worship of other gods because frankly there are no other “gods” that are remotely similar to Yahweh, to the great “I am.” The God of the Bible is unique and distinct. He alone is infinite, omniscient, omnipotent, etc. Human language cannot describe the perfections of the One True God. So, it is reasonable and righteous that we should never accord worship to any lesser person or being. Idolatry is wrong because it takes the respect which rightfully belongs only to the God of the Bible and gives it to something else.
VK: And even in our own experience we know that ascribing credit or glory due to one person to another is wrong. If a team wins their league championship and displays the trophy, that’s right and fitting. But if another team came and stole the trophy and claimed that they should be celebrated because they had the trophy none of us would say that is okay. There is even a prohibition in our laws to stop people from claiming credit for military service or decorations if they didn’t earn them legitimately. We call that “stolen valor.” When a human being worships someone or something other than the God of the Bible it is the ultimate case of “stolen valor.” No one and nothing rightfully deserves the praise and worship that God deserves because no one and nothing has created anything ex nihilo [EX KNEE-HILL-O].
RD: We say that God created ex nihilo which means God created the universe out of nothing. He did not use any pre-existing matter or energy which He just shaped into the creation we see about us. Creation ex nihilo means God created everything that exists by the ineffable power that only He possesses. So, when ascribe worship to any lesser thing we are denying, or attempting to deny, a simple truth. Nothing would exist, or could exist, apart from God. So, if we are going to give praise and thanks we should always give that praise and thanks to the One responsible for our ability to do that. This is such an important point but when we read the commandments or even think about them it’s something we tend to skip or gloss over.
VK: Usually when we think about the Ten Commandments we think about them in terms of being rules or regulations that govern our behavior. We know that we are not to worship other gods and I suspect that most Christians think that this a commandment that they are obeying if they just go to a “Christian church.” But as we have been discussing the force and effect of the first commandment goes beyond just saying that we participate in our worship service in the right kind of building.
RD: Yes. All true and acceptable worship must begin with a correct apprehension of God. We must start out with a solid understanding of God as He reveals Himself in the Bible because it is so easy as limited creatures to drift into worshipping a god of our own choosing or making. Especially in our day and time we have a tendency to diminish God’s holiness and righteousness in our conception of Him. We are uncomfortable by the way that God has expressed that holiness and righteousness in His commandments and we are uncomfortable in the uncompromising nature of His sovereignty. Especially in the modern west where we prize civil democracy and free choice we have begun to think that God somehow has an obligation to accommodate our ideas and concepts of how He should structure the world. Nothing could be more foolish or dangerous.
VK: You have often said that “God is not a scared teenager.” By that you mean that God is not sitting around on a sort of wispy cloud wishing desperately that we human beings will accept Him, think well of Him, and worship Him. To the contrary, every single encounter any human being had with even the barest glimpse of God in the Bible shows that the human was struck with awe and amazement with even the teeny bit of God they could apprehend. The encounter described in Isaiah, chapter 6 is a perfect example. Verses 1 through 5 say, “In the year that Uzziah [UH-ZAI-UH] the King died I saw LORD JEHOVAH sitting on a throne, high and exalted, whose robe filled his temple. And Seraphim … were calling, … “Holy, holy, holy, LORD JEHOVAH of Hosts, for all of the Earth is filled with his praises!” And the doorposts of the door moved … and the house was filled with smoke … And I said “Woe to me, for I am overcome with astonishment, because I am a man of defiled lips and I dwell among a people whose lips are defiled, and my eyes have seen The King, LORD JEHOVAH of Hosts!” This quote is also from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English.
RD: Isaiah was a priest from a very important family. He was an honorable man from the highest ranks of Hebrew society. Yet, he was so overcome with the recognition of his own sinfulness when confronted with the immediate presence of God’s majesty that he pronounced “woe” on himself. Isaiah probably guarded his worship carefully and he was probably as faithful to upholding the first commandment as any human being who ever lived, apart from Jesus, but he was devastated when he came into contact with the Lord. Can you imagine how he would have felt if he had ever worshipped any of the false gods that were commonly worshipped in the nations that surrounded Judah? Isaiah’s experience brings the necessity of the first commandment as a commandment and to be the first commandment into sharp focus.
VK: As people and as Christians we routinely ask God for things we need – healing, jobs, help for kids or grandkids, meeting financial needs, etc. And we should do that because 1 Peter, chapter 5, verse 7 tells us to, “cast all your cares on God, for he takes care of you.” And you spent some time in your book Purposeful Prayers thinking about how important it is for us to understand the relationship between God’s nature and our needs. This quote is from Purposeful Prayers. “Many people spend too little time considering the nature of the object of their prayers. This is unfortunate because even the most beautiful prayer prayed by the sincerest person to an unworthy object would be a futile prayer. An inanimate or non-existent object cannot hear a prayer, much less respond to it. The Bible, particularly the Old Testament, is filled with admonitions about the futility of praying to inanimate objects that have neither eyes to see, ears to hear, nor the power to move. But beyond the futility of praying to an unworthy object is a more serious problem. Because prayer is communion with God, and therefore part of worship, it would be an act of idolatry to direct prayer to an unworthy object. The first of the Ten Commandments … is number one for a reason.”
RD: Yes. God put the command not to worship anything or anyone other than him first because to do so would not only be offensive to Him but also because it is detrimental to us. God alone is sovereign and our observations of the universe tell us this. The alternative to God having created the universe is that everything and everybody came from nobody and nothing. The alternative to God creating mankind is that some random atoms collided one day to produce molecules and began a process that generated a being with 30 trillion cells each of which contains an information storage system more sophisticated than any information system ever created by that 30-trillion cell being.
VK: In other words, the system that created the being reflects more intelligence than the being it created possesses. But the system doing the creation is itself unintelligent. Hmmmm … seems like there’s a problem there.
RD: Indeed. And the first commandment encapsulates all of those thoughts even though it does not go to the point of elaborating on them. The first commandment is a model of brevity. From an informational standpoint the first commandment is an information scientist’s dream. It conveys hundreds of instructions that benefit its intended recipient in just 8 or 9 English words. In doing so, it gives evidence that it was framed by an omniscient mind. Anyone who is familiar with the civil laws that are common today in most “developed countries” knows that we will spend hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of words conveying even simple concepts. States have hundreds of pages that essentially cover nothing more than ideas like “you shall not steal.” Today, we have to define the terms “theft” and “steal.” Then we have to list all of the kinds of activities that might be considered theft. And we have to differentiate between loaning and borrowing and theft which gets into the idea of whether the thief intended to deprive someone of their property permanently.
VK: You’re giving me a headache but we take the point. But, of course, there were other legal codes in Moses’ day that didn’t exhibit the bureaucratic complexity of the legal codes of our day. For instance, the Mosaic law has often been compared to the law collection of Hammurabi, an Ammonite/Babylonian king who ruled between Abraham and Moses.
RD: Yes, they have been. And that helps confirm the historicity of the Ten Commandments. But there are significant differences between the Mosaic law and those of Hammurabi: The laws of Hammurabi address at least nine gods. Moses worships only one. The exalted reputation and wisdom of Hammurabi is in focus, whereas Moses received no credit for the laws of God. Hammurabi is the author of his laws. Moses received his as a revelation from God. The laws of Hammurabi have no reference to the moral qualities of the gods. The Mosaic laws are a reflection of the holiness of God. There are clear rules for the punishment of crimes in the laws of Hammurabi, but there is no provision of forgiveness, since the gods have little interest in morality. In the Mosaic laws, sin is primarily an affront to the character of God, but repentance and sacrifices for forgiveness and reconciliation are inseparable from the law.
VK: And the laws revealed through Moses clearly have an Egyptian background, especially with the first commandment. The Egyptians worshipped over 2,000 gods. So, it makes sense that God told Moses that the Israelites were to have “no other gods before me.” But the fact that there are some similarities with other legal codes of that time but that the Ten Commandments were clearly distinct from the surrounding cultures means that the most reasonable conclusion is that the laws and religion of Israel were uniquely revealed to Moses by God and reflect his plan for salvation that began in the garden immediately after the fall of Adam and Eve.
RD: The nature and structure of the Ten Commandments is consistent with the state of human history and governments at the time Moses received them from God – not quite 1,500 years before Jesus was born. But the distinctiveness of the commandments also reveals that they were given to a people that was in the process of transition. When the Hebrews went into Egypt to escape the famine there was only about 80 or so of them. When they left Egypt they had grown into a true national people of approximately 2 million. It was time for them to receive a formal legal code to govern their society with its new attributes.
VK: God had clearly given the substance of much of the commandments even to the first family. Cain and Abel knew they had to worship God and bring sacrifices to Him to atone for their sins. That’s what led to the first murder. But in the many centuries between Cain and Abel and Moses oral transmission of God’s requirements for them was sufficient. But had been sufficient for a small group of related tribesmen was not sufficient for the nation that God intended to build in the Promised Land. So, the delivery of the Ten Commandments makes sense in light of the people, the culture, the prevailing state of the nations at that time, and with God’s characteristic concern that His people know how to live productive and joyful lives.
RD: Absolutely. Next week we will move on to the 2nd commandment and we’ll see that it makes as much sense for that commandment to be number 2 as it makes for number one is to be number 1. And we will also see that the 2nd commandment makes sense culturally, morally, and historically. And as we said last week and want to continue to emphasize the reason God gave the commandments to His people was to improve their lives not just because He was sitting on a cloud one day and decided it was time to issue regulations to His people.
VK: Sitting on a cloud, really?
RD: Really.
VK: At any rate, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that God gave us the 1st commandment to remind us of some very important truths. God is the Creator. He made everything that we see and He upholds it through His own power. Because He made everyone and everything He is the righteous sovereign and we must guard against giving praise or glory to any imitators or lesser things. By doing that we will not only please Him but we will make our own lives better because when we turn to Him we turn to the One who can actually help in times of need. This sounds like a great time for a prayer so today let’s listen to a prayer for the celebration of Easter – the day our Lord rose from the grave proving the Father’s complete satisfaction with the sacrifice that makes our salvation possible.
---- PRAYER FOR EASTER
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 2, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Evidence for the Bible (creation.com)

Episode 207 – Ten Commandments – Part 3 – Visual Idolatry
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
You shall not make … any image or any form that is in Heaven from above or what is in the earth … or what is in the water beneath the Earth: You shall not bow to them and you shall not serve them because I AM LORD JEHOVAH your God, a jealous God …
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 4, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re glad that you are able to be with us today. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re continuing our series on the Ten Commandments. In the studio we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, you wanted to undertake this study of the Ten Commandment because you think that people either take the Ten Commandments for granted or dismiss them entirely. What do you mean by that?
RD: The Ten Commandments are clearly one part of the Bible with which even non-Christians have some familiarity. The Ten Commandments are clearly one of the most recognizable parts of the Christian faith. But as Shakespeare warned us “familiarity breeds contempt.” By that Shakespeare meant that when things are excessively familiar with them we can lose our appreciation or respect for them. And I think that’s the temptation that confronts many Christians with respect to the commandments. We hear about them so much – and many of them make so much common sense – that I think we start to miss the amazing revelation they contain. Conversely, unbelievers hear the first commandment about not worshipping any other god but the True God and they then dismiss the commandments are just being so much “religious nonsense.” But what happens with either view is that we want up not paying much attention to the commandments. Either the familiarity or the disdain winds up diminishing the commandments importance in our lives. But if we will just stop and take a few minutes to look at the commandments, what they say, why they were necessary to the Exodus generation, and what they still mean today we see a truly amazing body of expressed wisdom.
VK: And of course increasing our own wisdom is one of the principle reasons we need to become familiar with the Bible. We are certainly not discouraging familiarity with the Ten Commandments or any other part of the Bible. But what we are saying is we shouldn’t let our familiarity tempt us to look past the value that is in the commandments. As we’ve noted before on Anchored by Truth when you first hang a new poster or picture on your wall you see it every time you go into the room. But after weeks, months, and years go by you scarcely notice it. Probably the only time you really pay attention to it is when someone new comes to visit and tells you how nice the picture is. You see the picture then but you haven’t for weeks or months before that because it was just a part of the background.
RD: And that’s what we want to do with this series on the Ten Commandments. We want people to notice them again and maybe for the first time realize that the Ten Commandments contain evidence of the necessity for them and evidence that they were legitimate pronouncements by an almighty God to a people who were travelling to a new homeland after a 400 year sojourn in a foreign land – with the last several decades having been in slavery. And the 2nd commandment is a great example of those two observations.
VK: The 2nd commandment is found in Exodus, chapter 20, verses 4 and 5. We heard these verses in our opening scripture today from the version of the Bible called the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. Here are those same verses from the New International Version. “You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens or on the earth or in the sea. “You must not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God who will not tolerate your affection for any other gods.” So, what is the first thing that you want us to notice?
RD: Well, first let’s note that the 2nd commandment and the 1st commandment are complimentary. The 1st commandment, “you shall have no other gods before me” establishes the bedrock principle that there is one and only One True God – the God of the Bible. The 2nd commandment begins the series of instructions that tells us how we are to incorporate that principle into our daily lives. And it is founded on a simple, plain, and practical observation about human beings.
VK: Which is ...
RD: That human beings are visual creatures. We have 5 senses – sight, touch, taste, smell, and hearing. But unless someone loses their sight the vast majority of people learn the most about the world around them through their sight. Or said, slightly differently – and a little ominously – our eyes can get us into more trouble than our other 4 senses put together.
VK: Well, that thought deserves a big “amen.” And the Bible even points that out. In the New King James version Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 20 says “Hell and Destruction are never full; So the eyes of man are never satisfied.” It’s pretty significant that the same verse that tells us that the eyes of man are never satisfied is packaged with the observation that Hell is never full.
RD: Yes. We take in a lot of information through our vision, through our eyes. So, it makes perfect sense that when God began telling people how to avoid violating the 1st commandment He gave a command that had a strong visual component. God prohibited His people making any representation of Him for a wide variety of reasons but certainly one of the most important was because it is so easy for people to get misled by things they see. The widespread scourge of internet pornography is graphic evidence that an appeal to the eyes is the source of a lot of mischief. And one form of mischief that has plagued mankind for thousands of years has been rampant idolatry. Let’s remember that God gave the Ten Commandments to His people during the period of the Exodus when they were just emerging from living in a culture that worshipped, by some counts, over 2,000 different gods. Egypt was awash in gods and goddesses and certainly the Hebrews were well familiar with that religious system and with how those gods and goddesses were represented.
VK: Pretty much anyone who has ever watched a movie or TV program about ancient Egypt knows that the Egyptian pantheon of gods was represented visually. And these representations were not just limited to temples or religious settings. The Egyptians put pictures of their gods and goddesses in all kinds of settings and buildings and even in hieroglyphs. And they know that one of the most common motifs for representing their gods was with figures that had the body of a human but the head of an animal.
RD: Quite right. Horus was a falcon-headed man. Sekhmet was lioness-headed woman. Anubis was a jackal and Hathor was a cow. But sometimes the Egyptians just used human figures to represent a god. Amun-Re, the sun god and king of the gods, was quite often just represented by a male figure. But the use of images as part of pagan worship was by no means limited to the Egyptians. Most of the pagan religious practices of the other nations around the Israelites used iconography as part of worship. Iconography just means making an image or totem for use in worship. Often the images or totems were human type figures but the use of animal images was quite common. The Babylonian god Dagon was a fish-god and Heqet, an Egyptian fertility goddess, was represented as a frog.
VK: So, when God prohibited the Israelites from making images He was prohibiting a practice that was commonplace in Egypt, Canaan, and the vast majority of the Middle East. Making and using visual idols is far less common today, though it is not unknown. Even in our day and age Satanic figures are often represented as human figures but with the head and horns of a goat and often with eagle-type wings. But, still, today we don’t see nearly as many god-type idol images as the ancient Israelites would have.
RD: Correct. So, today we might almost think that the 2nd commandment is unnecessary but it certainly is not. Because one of the other functions of the 2nd commandment is to remind us that God must not be represented by any image because God cannot be represented by an image, statue, or anything tangible or visual. It would be impossible for any human being to create an image of God because no human being ever has or ever will see God – at least until after Christ returns and we have a new heavens and earth as described in Revelation, chapters 21 and 22.
VK: The first reason human beings cannot make a representation of God is covered by 1 Timothy, chapter 6, verse 15. The New International Version of that verse says, “the King of kings and Lord of lords, … is immortal and … lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see.” So, Paul tells us that no one has ever seen God or can see God. This is particularly significant coming from Paul who at one point in his life had been “caught up to the third heaven.” We learn that from 2 Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 2. A common interpretation of the term “third heaven” is that the first heaven is the sky where birds fly, the second heaven is what we call “outer space” where the stars and stellar bodies exist, and the third heaven is the heaven which contains the throne of God. So, if Paul, who had been transported either by vision or physically, to the third heaven said no one can see God Paul would know what he was talking about.
RD: Furthermore, we know from John 4:24 that God is “spirit.” The New Living Translation put it this way. “For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” So, we add to the fact that anytime we might want to create an image or a sculpture we would have to have some kind of a physical image to work from. In God’s case there is nothing physical to work from to begin with. God is spirit. Now, a word of caution here. We sometimes use the word spirit like we use the word “ghost.” And we think of ghosts or spirits as being sort-of wispy, flimsy bits of semi-transparent puffs of smoke. To us ghosts or spirits are insubstantial. So, when we hear that God is spirit we can somehow get the impression that God is like a hologram that you might see but you could put your hand through. Nothing could be further from the truth.
VK: We think of the universe we can see and touch and our world as being solid. In actuality most atoms are small bits of matter separated by a lot of space. But to us our world is “real.” And we think of the spirit realm as somehow being unreal. But Hebrews, chapter 11, verse 3 reminds us that “we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.” That’s from the New Living Translation. Or at you put in your book, Doors of Destiny, “the unseen created the seen and someday will lay claim to its own.” While the words become difficult the truth is that God and the angelic realm is more “real” than our physical realm. The point is we must guard against the temptation to think of God, who is spirit, as somehow being less substantial than our tangible world. God is immeasurably more substantial than anything that exists in our universe.
RD: So those are two simple reasons why human beings are incapable of creating any kind of a representation of God. No one has ever seen or will see God and we have no way of portraying a spirit meaningfully. The Hollywood versions of ghosts and spirits may be fine for movies but they would be entirely inaccurate and disrespectful when it comes to God. The 2nd commandment was given to us in part to guard us from treating God lightly or disrespectfully by trying to employ our imaginations in creating some image of Him. The 2nd commandment reinforces our awareness of the spiritual nature of God by steering us completely away from doing something it would be impossible to do in the first place. But there is another one of God’s attributes also shows that the 2nd commandment makes perfect sense.
VK: I already know what you are going to say. One of God’s most fundamental, and obvious, attributes is that God is infinite. 1 Kings, chapter 8, verse 27 puts it this way. “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.” That verse comes from the dedication speech that Solomon gave at the dedication of the temple he built in Jerusalem. Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, felt compelled to acknowledge God’s infinitude even as they had just built a magnificent building to honor God’s majesty.
RD: Yes. God is infinite. That’s a way of describing God by saying what He is not. God is not finite. But if you tried to make an image whether by drawing, sculpting, or any other way the first thing that you must decide is where to start. And the moment you drew your first line or chose a block of marble you’re automatically working with a limit. But doesn’t have any limits other than those that come from His own righteous character and those have nothing to do with anything physical. As human beings our minds can’t really even conceive of the infinite. We are finite and we can’t escape or finitude. So, to keep us from making any sinful attempts to drift into sinful ways of thinking God just said, “Don’t. Don’t try to make an image of me. It’s impossible to begin with and any attempts you might make would only demean my majesty.”
VK: And God also wanted to prevent another temptation which was common in the ancient world which was to assign a form of divinity to an object or creature. Many of the ancient cultures worshipped stellar objects such as the sun or moon. Among the Canaanites Shemesh was the sun god and Yareah was the moon god. Baal was the storm god and Yam was the sea god. And we have already talked about the fact that some cultures used living creatures as representations of their gods or goddesses. But, again, doing anything like this would make all of the same errors that we have already discussed.
RD: Yes. In man’s limited mind you can see how someone might envision the sun, which is an impressive and life giving body, as somehow being divine. And that’s how some ancient peoples viewed it. But in the Bible the sun is just another created object fully subject to God. God certainly didn’t need the sun for His creation. He created both light and life before He made the sun the source of light to illuminate earth. In many pagan mythologies the sun was the master but in the Bible the sun is always just another one of God’s servants. The 2nd commandment helped the Hebrews coming out of a pagan culture with hundreds of gods to not bring their pagan errors with them. That’s one of the reasons God gave the Israelites the commandments at the start of their journey to the Promised Land. He wanted them to begin the new stage of their national development on the right foot.
VK: The Ten Commandments are initially contained in chapter 20 of Exodus which is the 2nd book of the Bible. Then, they are repeated almost identically in chapter 5 of Deuteronomy which is the 5th book of the Bible. The Bible has 66 books so both the giving of the commandments and their reinforcement are fairly early in the revelation of scripture. And it is interesting to note that throughout the rest of scripture you never see the 2nd commandment violated. We have several descriptions of incidents where men were given visions that included some sort of divine encounter or even a divine figure on a throne. But there is never any attempt in any of those inspired reports any attempts to describe the Being on the throne. As Paul said the most we ever get is some kind of an image of a person that is obscured by transcendent light.
RD: Yes. We have descriptions of what you might call the throne of God in Isaiah, chapter 6, Ezekiel chapters 1 and 10, Daniel chapter 7, and Revelation chapter 4. But in none of the descriptions of those encounters is there ever the least attempt by the inspired writer to describe the person they see in their vision.
VK: Daniel, chapter 7, verses 9 and 10 are good illustration of what we’re talking about. “I watched as thrones were put in place and the Ancient One sat down to judge. His clothing was as white as snow, his hair like purest wool. He sat on a fiery throne with wheels of blazing fire, and a river of fire was pouring out, flowing from his presence. Millions of angels ministered to him; many millions stood to attend him. Then the court began its session, and the books were opened.” That’s from the New Living Translation. And you followed that pattern when you wrote your throne room scene for your allegorical adventure book The Prodigal’s Advocate. Here is what you wrote. “There was a royal figure on the throne. At least that’s how I thought of what I saw. Of the royalty I had no doubt; but to call the One I saw a figure is another injustice. The Person I beheld was so infinitely glorious that He overwhelmed my mind merely by His presence. I suppose you might say He appeared in some ways to be in the center of a cloud of radiant white light; but that would be like comparing a candle flame to the sun.”
RD: Yes. It wouldn’t just be wrong to try to describe God in His essence, it would be blasphemous. That was something I definitely wasn’t going to do. But God has obviously felt that was important as He unfolded His revelation through scripture to give human beings enough of a glimpse of His majesty and glory to let us know that there was an awfully good reason to put the 2nd commandment in place to begin with. And it’s interesting to note that even when the 2nd Person of the Trinity took on a human nature and body, which obviously could be seen, that there are still no descriptions of that body in scripture. We have 4 gospels about the life of Jesus and others like Stephen and the Apostle Paul saw the risen Christ but not a single writer or reporter ever attempted to describe what Jesus looked like.
VK: That’s something we don’t think about. In just about every book you ever read the first thing the author does is tell us what the hero or heroine, or villain for that matter, looks like. We’re always told whether they are tall or short, blonde or brunette, skinny or fat, or whatever. But no Bible writer throughout the gospels or New Testament ever tried to tell us anything about the appearance of Jesus.
RD: And I think that takes us back to the fact that human beings are easily tempted by sight and image. If the Bible told us how Jesus looked I have no doubt that throughout church history some people would have tried to adjust their appearance to try to look more like him. If Jesus had been tall and we knew that, tall people would feel better about themselves. If we knew he had a particular color eyes, we would have been fascinated by that. Our eyes and imaginations get us into lots of trouble. God knows that. So, right after He told the Hebrews not to worship anyone or anything other than Him, he began telling them how to guard their hearts. Don’t try to create any images of me.
VK: This, of course, does not mean, as some have asserted, that God is opposed to art or visual beauty. God commanded that some images such as cherubim and certain kinds of fruits be used as part of the decorations in the temple itself. Some people have taken the 2nd commandment to such an extreme that they try to condemn all art. But God wasn’t telling us not to create images of created things or angelic beings. He told us not to worship those images and not to imagine that somehow that His spirit or nature would ever be part of any created thing. God was guarding the nature of our worship to prevent us from drifting into idolatry and sin. And as we discussed last week God gave us the 1st commandment to prevent us from worshipping lesser things or beings. Because if we worship the lesser we will only injure ourselves.
RD: Absolutely. God has made it plain that we to come boldly before His throne, the throne of grace. That’s Hebrews 4:16. Why, if are invited to enter the grandest throne room of all, the grandest throne room possible, would we ever want to settle for anything less. God is the only source of power anywhere and He wants to be available to us. That doesn’t mean that God gives His children anything and everything they ask for. That would be silly and dangerous. We often ask for things that aren’t good for us. God is not a heavenly vending machine.
VK: A heavenly vending machine, really?
RD: Well, that’s how we want to treat Him sometimes. At any rate, God wants what’s best for us and that’s the thrust of the 1st, 2nd, and all the commandments. God is trying to get us to start thinking correctly about Him and how we are to relate to Him because if we do that our lives will be built on an unshakeable foundation. But to think correctly about God, and to correctly relate to God, we must obey God and that starts with only worshipping Him in truth as well as spirit. If we follow the commandments faithfully that will happen automatically.
VK: God gave us the 1st commandment to remind us of some very important truths. God is the Creator. He made everything that we see and He upholds it through His own power. Because He made everyone and everything He is the righteous sovereign and we must guard against giving praise or glory to any imitators or lesser things. God gave us the 2nd commandment to ensure that we don’t succumb to the temptation that is so common to people by letting our eyes and imaginations lead us astray. This sounds like a great time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for the renewal of the church so the church may once again be the light of truth to a world desperate in its darkness. People are hungry for the truth and God’s people possess the truth but we must be steadfast enough to share it during trying times like these.
---- PRAYER FOR RENEWAL OF THE CHURCH
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 2, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Evidence for the Bible (creation.com)

Episode 208 – Ten Commandments – Part 4 – A Name Above All Names
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
You shall not take the name of Yahweh your God in vain, for Yahweh will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain …
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 7, Legacy Standard Bible

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re so happy that you are joining us today on Anchored by Truth as we continue our series on the Ten Commandments. In this series we are not only thinking about the commandments themselves, but we are also discussing the fact that the commandments are historically and culturally reasonable. The commandments were given to an Israelite nation that was in transition from being in bondage to a pagan nation to preparing to start their national life anew in their own land. Despite the fact that the commandments are firmly set in place and time, however, they are nevertheless transcendent ethical principles that are relevant to us and to our lives even though 3,500 years have passed since Moses first brought them down from the mountain. To help us think through all of this we have RD Fierro in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, the Ten Commandments really are amazing aren’t they?
RD: Yes, they are. As you’ve said the Ten Commandments made perfect sense to the people to whom they were first given. And they made sense in light of the cultures and nations that existed in the 15th century B.C. in the Mid-east. So, it is remarkable when you think about it that pronouncements made to ancient Hebrews of the Exodus generation continue to be so important and relevant today. This means that in the Ten Commandments we see a truly amazing body of expressed wisdom, which, of course, heightens our confidence that they were given by an omniscient and omnipotent God. That was true of the 1st and 2nd commandments which we looked at in our last couple of episodes and it will be just as true for the 3rd commandment which we are looking at today.
VK: When we looked at the 1st commandment we saw it made good sense for it to be number 1 because it reminded the Hebrews of a simple but profound fact. There is one and only one True God who created everything. So, no one should ever dishonor that God by attributing worship to any lesser being, creature, or part of the creation. Similarly, the 2nd commandment reminds us that that Creator is Spirit who dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen His essence. No one will ever see His essence during this phase of redemption’s story. As such, there is no way anyone could ever make a meaningful representation of the One True God. So, we must not try. Trying to depict God would mean that we are imposing our ideas on a Being whose “… ways are far beyond anything [we] could imagine” as Isaiah 55:8 says. That is just as disrespectful of God as attributing worship to anyone or anything other than Him.
RD: We see a theme in the first 2 commandments that is continued in the 3rd. God wants to know us to know Him. But because we are limited, finite, and sinful creatures we can only truly know God if we are willing to set aside our own misconceptions about Him. We don’t have to employ our imaginations to know who God is because God has given us His special revelation to guide us into having a proper relationship to Him.
VK: The Bible is that special revelation. That is the reason that becoming familiar with the Bible is so very important.
RD: The first three commandments are complimentary. The 1st commandment, clearly establishes the principle that we may only properly accord worship to the God who made everything. The 2nd commandment begins a series of instructions that tells us how we are to incorporate that principle into our daily lives. And that guidance begins quite sensibly by warning us not to attempt to redefine that unlimited, holy Creator by creating representations of him or by ascribing His majesty to any part of the created order.
VK: Assigning divinity to a part of the created order was common in the time of the Exodus and it was particularly common in the religious worship of the Egyptians. For instance, the Egyptians often conceived of their god Amun-Re [AH-MOON RAY] as the sun god. Worshipping the sun or the moon were common motifs in the pagan religions of the ancient Mideast.
RD: The 3rd commandment continues that general theme of telling the Hebrews and us how to ensure that we don’t dishonor God. The 2nd commandment tells us not to create any images or representations of God. And the 3rd commandment tells us to be very careful with God’s name. In our opening scripture, which came from the Legacy Standard Bible, we heard a common version of how the 3rd commandment is framed. We are not to take God’s name “in vain.”
VK: Other versions say that we are not to “misuse” God’s name. For instance, the New International Version says, “NIV You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God.” The Amplified Bible puts it this way. “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain [that is, irreverently, in false affirmations or in ways that impugn the character of God]; for the LORD will not hold guiltless nor leave unpunished the one who takes His name in vain [disregarding its reverence and its power].”
RD: Yes. So, as commentators have considered the implications of the 3rd commandment, some commentators have construed the 3rd commandment fairly narrowly.
VK: As an example, the famous Bible commentator, Charles John Ellicott said this, “Most modern critics regard the phrase used as forbidding false swearing only; but some think that it forbids also “profane” or “vain swearing.”
RD: But other commentators have seen the 3rd commandment as having broader implications.
VK: The Reverend Joseph Benson who also wrote a famous Bible commentator was in this camp. Reverend Benson wrote this: “We take God’s name in vain, 1st, By hypocrisy, making profession of God’s name, but not living up to that profession. 2d, By covenant-breaking. If we make promises to God, and perform not to the Lord our vows, we take his name in vain. 3d, By rash swearing, mentioning the name of God, or any of his attributes, in the form of an oath, without any just occasion for it, to no good purpose, or to no good. 4th, By false swearing, which some think is chiefly intended in the letter of the commandment. 5th, By using the name of God lightly and carelessly.” So, which camp are you in?
RD: I’m in the camp that says that in all the commandments God was giving us general principles but He expressed those principles in very specific behavioral requirements. We need to be concerned about both the specific and the general. In the 3rd commandment God was definitely prohibiting the use of His name in swearing or cursing. You’d almost think that this kind of a commandment wouldn’t be necessary. But it is, because swearing and including God’s name in curses is unfortunately such a common practice. And of course this is objectionable because men should never involve God in profanity. But, as I’ve said, I also think that God was continuing the theme He started in the first two commandment of ensuring that we know how to properly relate to God.
VK: And properly relating to God means that we accord God the respect, reverence, and honor that is due to the Royal Sovereign of the universe who created everything that exists. That includes not attributing God’s majesty to anything lesser and not trying to impose our limited concepts on an infinite God. The 3rd commandment extends that line of reasoning by telling us to be careful with God’s name.
RD: Correct. But one of the things I wanted us to think about today is why the 3rd commandment is centered around respect for God’s name. By phrasing the 3rd commandment the way He did I think that God was making some very important points.
VK: Such as...
RD: Such as the overall relationship of God’s name to His attributes and majesty. The Bible uses multiple names for God throughout scripture but the one in view in the 3rd commandment is Yahweh in Hebrew or Jehovah in Greek. As we’ve discussed before on Anchored by Truth this is the personal name of God which God gave to Moses in the encounter at the burning bush. Yahweh means “I am” so this name points to God’s self-existence or what theologians call the attribute of “aseity.” In using this name God continues to remind His people that He alone is self-existent and this is not a quality that any other creature or being shares.
VK: It reminds me of the demand we hear expressed today when someone says that they want their “props.” If lowly human beings can expect to receive appropriate credit or recognition how much more reasonable is it for the Lord of the Universe to expect that.
RD: Right. God has phrased the 3rd commandment in such a way that even sinful human beings can see the reasonability of it. God alone is self-existent. God alone created everything. Since God created everything He obviously rules everything. Therefore, we should not disrespect God by abusing His name in either cursing, lying, or making vows we will not keep. That’s one fundamental thought in the 3rd commandment.
VK: And even, as you say, sinful human beings should be able to understand that. If someone walks into a room and calls someone “Joan” rather than “Jane,” either Jane or someone else will quickly correct them for their error. We will not only correct others who call us by the wrong name we will correct them if they mispronounce our name. Even sinful human beings tend to be very concerned about the proper use of their name. Why do you think that is?
RD: Because names are related to two things that are very important to us: identity and relationship. Our identities are linked to our names. Names are not only the way in which we are distinguished in the world and society but they are the means by which we think about ourselves. I have seen kids who were named after one of their parents asked to be called by a different name once they are old enough to be more than just someone’s son or daughter.
VK: It is true that names are an absolute key to how people relate to the world. We can think of any number of celebrities who have taken enormous pains to either create a special name for themselves or change the name they were using in order to be more identifiable or distinctive. We won’t start naming names here today but it wouldn’t be hard to come up with a long list very quickly of politicians, sports stars, or entertainment celebrities who have spent a great deal of time, money, and occasionally legal resources defending their name. And that’s not just true in today’s world. Even in Moses’ time the elite of that time like the Pharaohs were careful about ensuring their people knew their names and honored them. Similarly, there are monuments all over Egypt bearing the scars where one pharaoh would attempt to obliterate the name of the preceding pharaoh by having the predecessor’s name chiseled off buildings and temples. I guess when you think about it even sinful human beings are pretty protective of our names.
RD: Yes. Our names are how the world identifies us and we identify ourselves to the world. But names are not just important to our identity in the world names also play an important part in our relationships. For instance, it is very common with families or other small groups for people to be assigned nicknames – a name that signifies to the parties using it a special relationship. This is particularly common where a husband and wife have a special name for each other and they will call their kids names that no one else is allowed to use.
VK: Well, it’s for sure that in our day if your mother ever called you by your entire name you knew you were in big trouble. But I take your point. Grandparents are often called special names by their grandchildren. Grandmothers might be “Granny,” “Me-mah,” “Grandma,” “Ya-ya,” or a host of others. Grandfathers might be “Paw-paw,” “Granddad,” “Big Daddy,” etc. And it’s not uncommon for grandparents to call their grandchildren names that would be offensive from anyone else. And even beyond families giving nicknames out is common in a wide variety of settings such as sports teams, military units, business offices, restaurants, and so forth. When you begin to think about it a lot of life revolves around names.
RD: Yes. And the same thing is true of a title which is a kind of a name that is used in organizational or cultural systems. Just think about the number of titles the British use for their various categories of royalty. There’s a big difference in whether you call someone “your grace,” “your lord,” “your majesty,” “your royal highness,” etc. And the same thing is true in business. A “chief executive officer” is different from a “chief operating officer” and the CEO will quickly correct you if you forget. In restaurants there’s a big difference is many places between a “chef de cuisine” and a “sous chef” and someone working in the kitchen better know the difference. Titles, like names, are important to their holders and title holders expect the rest of the world to pay attention.
VK: And in God’s case many of His names also serve the same function as earthly titles but in a far more exalted way. Two of the most common names for God in the Bible are “Yahweh” and “Elohim. [EL-OH-HIM]” As we’ve said “Yahweh” means “I am.” “Elohim” means the “supreme one” or the “mighty one” but there are times when these two names are combined and when they are they are translated as “Lord God.” So, while Yahweh or Jehovah is God’s personal name it can also function as a part of a title that helps us appreciate God’s uniquely exalted role in the universe. No other being would ever, could ever, come close to being the “Lord God.”
RD: Right. So, all of this helps us to see more clearly why the 3rd commandment has a central focus around being careful with God’s name. Even in our earthly world and circumstance names play an unduplicated role in how we relate to our world and society. Names are a central element of our own identities and they play a key role in how we relate to other people. We are careful about how other people use our names and some people are downright defensive about it. That was true in Moses’s day and time and it remains true today.
VK: And, frankly, the role and importance of our names to our identities and for our humanity has a dark side as well. One of the ways tyrannical governments have tried to dehumanize people is by taking away names and substituting numbers. One of the quickest ways to destroy people’s self-esteem is to prohibit them from being called by their name and reducing them to just a number. This is a tactic that has been employed by some of the most repressive regimes that have ever tried to subjugate others.
RD: Right. It is easy to see how all of this is relevant to the 3rd commandment. If our names are important to our identities then surely we can understand that God has a greater right to expect us to be careful with His name. And there is another consideration for why the 3rd commandment is very important.
VK: Which is ...
RD: In the ancient world the ability to assign names, or sometimes even know a name, was considered a source of dominion and power.
VK: Well, that is consistent with a pattern that God established from the earliest moments of creation. Naming things was something that God did right away. Genesis, chapter 1, says in part, “And God said, ‘The light shall be’, and the light was. And God saw the light that it is beautiful and God separated between the light unto the darkness. And God called the light the day, and the darkness he called the night, … And God called the dried land, Earth, and the assembly of waters he called, the Seas …” As soon as God began creating things He began naming them. God created light, land, and the seas. Then God named them. And God clearly exercises dominion over them. We would know this, if by another way, from the Gospel of Mark, chapter 4, verse 41. This was the episode where Jesus calmed the Sea of Galilee and the disciples in the boat exclaimed “… even the wind and the waves obey him.”
RD: Exactly. God exercises dominion over the creation that He created and then named the elements of that creation. And when God created man in His image God made man His steward and granted man dominion over the animals. Genesis, chapter 1, verse 28 tells us that God said to Adam, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the Earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the Sea, and over the fowl of Heaven, and over cattle, and over all animals that creep on the Earth.” God confirmed man’s dominion over the other creatures when God brought the animals to man and told Adam to name them.
VK: Genesis, chapter 2, verse 19 says, “And LORD JEHOVAH God formed from the Earth every animal of the wilderness, and every bird of Heaven, and he brought them to Adam to see what he called them, and everything that Adam called them, each living soul, that is its name.” These quotes have been from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English.
RD: In other words the ability to name things implies dominion and control. So, when we begin to misuse God’s name we begin to do something really horrible. We, unwisely and impertinently, imply that we have power over God.
VK: That, of course, is just silly. No one and nothing in all the created order has, or could have, power over the all-powerful God.
RD: No they couldn’t. But when we use God’s name in a manner He hasn’t endorses that’s tantamount to what we are doing. God doesn’t, and won’t permit, His name to be used flippantly, irreverently, or in connection with vain or profane oaths or curses. The prohibitions of the first 3 commandments all harken back to what transpired in the Garden of Eden. God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the animals and told them to tend the garden. He only gave them one restriction. Don’t eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. But Satan tempted them by saying “if you eat of that tree you will be like God.” And Adam and Eve succumbed to the temptation. And ever since they did people have been succumbing to the temptation to want to set God’s commandments aside in favor of their own judgment. The first 3 commandments are warnings to not repeat Adam and Eve’s error and sin.
VK: God gave us the 1st commandment to remind us of some very important truths. God is the Creator. He made everything. He upholds creation through His own power. Because He made everyone and everything He is the righteous sovereign. We must guard against giving praise or glory to any imitators or lesser things. God gave us the 2nd commandment to ensure that we don’t succumb to the temptation that is so common to people by letting our eyes and imaginations lead us astray. Making an image in a physical world requires using matter and energy and establishing boundaries or limits. God is Spirit so He can’t be replicated or represented by anything physical. God is infinite. He certainly doesn’t have any physical limits. And the 3rd commandment warns us not to attempt to assert dominion over God or His requirements by misusing His name for our own corrupt purposes. As you said, all of this takes us straight back to the garden.
RD: God gave us the 10 commandments for our benefit. We human beings have a propensity to get ourselves in trouble. And even if we don’t do anything foolish, in a fallen creation trouble will find us. So, who would you rather have come to your aid – a limited God who is subject to the boundaries of what we can draw and sculpt; a God who isn’t righteous enough to avoid participation in vain vows or profane oaths; and a God who is ok with being set aside for a lesser creature. Or would you rather be able to turn to a God who is majestic and powerful and who refuses to allow anything or anyone get in the way when He wants to provide salvation and deliverance? When it comes down to it I think we all want to be able to turn to the God of the Bible not a God we retooled to suit our own fancies.
VK: We can and should turn to God in prayer because He always knows what’s best for us. And as a truly loving God He wants what’s best for us even if we don’t always know what that is. The first 3 commandments protect us because they tell us that our God is a God who is able to deliver us no matter what situation we have created or find ourselves in. So, this sounds like a great time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for the God that is holy, righteous, perfect, and powerful – and who ensures that we understand that by loving us to keep us away from false images and idols..
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION OF THE FATHER
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 2, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Evidence for the Bible (creation.com)

Episode 209 – Ten Commandments – Part 5 – Rest is Blessed
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
… Six days you shall serve and you shall do all your work: And the seventh day is the Sabbath to LORD JEHOVAH your God; … Because for six days LORD JEHOVAH made Heaven and Earth … and he was refreshed in the seventh day; …
Exodus, Chapter 20, verses 9, and 11, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re happy to be with you for this episode of Anchored by Truth as we continue our series on the Ten Commandments. In this series we are focusing on several key ideas such as the fact that the commandments were given to help us understand God more deeply as well as live better lives. This remains as true today as it was for the ancient Israelites who first heard the commandments 3,500 years ago. Today RD Fierro is with us in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, what other big ideas are we focusing on in this series?
RD: Well, you’ve just mentioned two very big ideas. Many people view the 10 commandments as if they were a sort of set of speed limit signs. They see the commandments as saying “don’t do this or that” in the same way they view a speed limit sign as saying “don’t drive faster than 45 miles an hour.” And certainly, like speed limits, the commandments help us to keep away from foolish behavior. But the commandments are and do so much more. Properly understood the commandments help us understand the overall plan of redemption much more deeply.
VK: Why is that?
RD: Many commentators have divided the 10 commandments into 2 groups called “tables.”
VK: We mentioned that in the first episode of this series. Often the 1st four commandments are considered the first table of the law. Their purpose is to help us have a better relationship with God. The last six commandments are the 2nd table. Their purpose is to help us have better relationships with other people.
RD: Right. That’s a very common way of looking at the commandments. But I have a slightly different way of segregating the commandments.
VK: You would. How do you divide the commandments?
RD: I think the 10 commandments can serve to remind us of God’s overall plan of redemption. The 1st three commandments are all concerned with God’s nature and personhood. God is a personal being – an exalted, infinite personal being. The 1st three commandments remind us that God is self-existent, infinite and spiritual, and guard our perceptions of His nature carefully. The 4th and 5th commandments remind us of God’s creative activity. Number 4 reminds us that God created everything that exists in 6 regular 24-hour days. And number 5, which says to honor our fathers and mothers, reminds us that God man as the only creature in all creation that bears His image. God created the first father and mother. Those are the only two human beings God created directly.
VK: All other people have been born as natural descendants of Adam and Eve but God personally created our first parents. So, in a very real way all subsequent parents have a direct link back to God’s creative activity. And we’ll get more deeply into the 5th commandment in our next episode of Anchored by Truth.
RD: And the final five commandments all remind us of the effects of the fall and the need to restrain the behavior of fallen human beings. In a certain respect we see the need for the five commandments in what happened in the Garden of Eden and the immediate aftermath.
VK: Well, God had told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil but they did so after being tempted by Satan in the guise of the serpent. So, Adam and Eve took fruit that didn’t belong to them. That’s stealing. And we hear from Genesis, chapter 3, verse 5 that part of the temptation included covetousness. The New Living Translation puts it this way. Satan said, “God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God, knowing both good and evil.” Satan tempted Eve by telling her that she could be like God. And Eve succumbed. Verse 6 says, “And even The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it.” Adam and Eve coveted being like God and that led to the theft.
RD: Yes. An idol is anything that we prize more than God and idolatry in the Bible is often represented by adultery. Idolatry is spiritual adultery. So, when Adam and Eve prized “being like God” more than obedience to God they committed idolatry and spiritual adultery. And when God confronted them they hid and became evasive. Evasion is a form of deception or lying. And, of course, not too long after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden we hear of the first murder when Cain killed his brother Abel in chapter 4 of Genesis. So, there in the 2 chapters that follow the description of creation you have examples of the need for all of the last 5 commandments.
VK: That’s interesting. God existed before He created anything. The first 3 commandments apply to Him personally. The next 2 apply to His creative activity. The 4th which we are going to talk about today is about the period of creation, 6 days of creative work followed by a day of rest. The 5th commandment is about the product of creation. Man was God’s highest part of the created order because man is the only created being who is described as being created in the image of God. The first five commandments would have been just as reasonable and applicable if the Fall had never occurred. But, the last five commandments are only necessary because of the Fall.
RD: Creation, fall, and redmeption. It’s a seemingly simple story but if we don’t understand it we really won’t understand the Bible. The Bible is a single book about a single story and that story is creation, fall, and redemption. And the 4th commandment is very straightforward about reminding us about that single fact.
VK: We heard one version of the 4th commandment in our opening scripture. That version came from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English. Here is how the 4th commandment reads in the Contemporary English Version. “Remember that the Sabbath Day belongs to me. You have six days when you can do your work, but the seventh day of each week belongs to me, your God. No one is to work on that day—not you, your children, your slaves, your animals, or the foreigners who live in your towns. In six days I made the sky, the earth, the oceans, and everything in them, but on the seventh day I rested. That's why I made the Sabbath a special day that belongs to me.” That’s Exodus, chapter 20, verses 9 through 11. So, in giving the 4th commandment, God Himself takes His audience straight back to His creative activity.
RD: Yes. And we learn several important things from that fact. First, we learn that God did, in fact, create the world in 6 ordinary 24 hour days. Dr. Jonathan Sarfati spoke extensively about this in our series that we called The Truth in Genesis.
VK: Dr. Sarfati is the lead scientist for Creation Ministries International. He has a Ph.D. in both physics and chemistry and he is such an accomplished chess champion that the plays up to 12 players simultaneously – while they can see and he is blindfolded. And the Truth in Genesis series is available from our website, crystalseabooks.com.
RD: Correct. Some people have tried to say that the 6 days of creation were actually just indeterminate periods, possibly quite long ones, but this view does not make much sense in light of what God tells us in the 4th commandment. In the Contemporary English Version that you just read God says “You have six days when you can do your work, but the seventh day of each week belongs to me, your God.” God certainly didn’t mean that we are to work for 6 indeterminately long periods followed by a 7th equally indeterminate period of rest. God is clearly referring to 6 24-hour periods when He is describing the period of the week in which we are to work. This is the only thing that makes sense for how human beings can actually work. Yet God directly links His creative activity to that same period.
VK: The point is that if we accept the creation period of God’s work as being 6 24-hour periods there is no tension with the 4th commandment. But the moment we start trying to bring a different interpretation to chapter 1 of Genesis we have to begin fashioning bizarre explanations for how that translates into the plain requirement of the 4th commandment.
RD: So, one important concept that comes through the 4th commandment is the ratification of the creation narrative contained in chapter 1 of Genesis. And when God gave the 4th commandment He knew all of the later craziness that would be attributed to Genesis, chapter 1, so in giving the 4th commandment God “killed two birds with one stone.” He both prescribed the requirement that one day of the week was to be devoted to His purposes as well as stating clearly that the first chapter of Genesis is to be accepted as literal history. But another fact that we learn from the 4th commandment is that God considers rest to be as important within His economy as work.
VK: That’s a lesson so many of us need to learn – or re-learn - today. In our day and age our lives tend to be filled with constant activity. It may not all be working for compensation but it seems like one requirement or another constantly grabbing our attention and demanding that we do something. In our culture and economy we treat the need for rest as a weakness, but it is not. God built a rest period into His design for creation right at the start. God rested on the 7th day and that made it special. Genesis, chapter 2, verse 3 says, “God blessed the seventh day and made it special, because on that day he rested from his work.” That’s also from the Contemporary English Version. You know it is interesting that day 7 was the only day that the Bible calls “blessed.”
RD: Right. So, let’s make a couple of points very clear. First, God did not need to rest because He got tired. God is omnipotent and infinite. He never gets tired and nothing that He has done, including creating the universe, was hard on Him. God “rested” to set the pattern for us to follow, not because He needed to take a break.
VK: And we know that God rested on the 7th day for our benefit because in the Gospel of Mark, chapter 2, verse 27 it says: “Jesus finished by saying, "People were not made for the good of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for the good of people.”
RD: That’s from the Contemporary English Version also. Other versions say, “the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath.” The 7th day is blessed in part because it is the day we are to rest. And let’s think back to the people who first heard the message that they were to rest one day out of seven. The Israelites had been slaves in Egypt for a long time – likely decades. I doubt that the Egyptians had been overly concerned about ensuring that their Hebrew slaves got an appropriate amount of rest.
VK: Taking one day off out of seven would have been a revolutionary thought to the Hebrews who had just left an extended period of slavery. The first chapter of Exodus tells us that the Hebrews were “oppressed” and that they were being forced to build storage or treasure cities for the Pharaoh. It’s likely that they were expected to work just about every day during which it was physically possible to perform hard physical labor. When Moses told the Hebrews that God wanted them to rest one day a week, that news must have been as revolutionary as it was welcome.
RD: And a second point that we need to notice is the timing of God giving the Hebrews this command. Exodus, chapter 19 tells us that God first gave the commandments to the Hebrews in the 3rd month after they had left Egypt. This ratifies the authenticity of the historical setting. During the first two months of the Hebrews journey out of Egypt they were steadily moving away from their former captors. If God had told them to sit down and rest when they were still close to Egypt the people would have been nervous and anxious that the Egyptians would have tried to recapture them.
VK: Which Pharaoh and the Egyptian army had already tried to do once before the Israelites were miraculously delivered by the parting of the Red Sea. The Hebrews knew that they were not safe if they were too close to Egypt. So, God led them quite a distance away before He delivered the law. By that time they probably needed a rest and the news that they were going to get one every week was probably very welcome.
RD: Right. And a third point that we need to note is that God called his creative activity on 5 of the first 6 days, “good.” But He called the 7th day “blessed.” Now, one of the reasons it is blessed is because it is a rest day for us. But another reason, probably the biggest reason, it is blessed is because the Sabbath is the day we are to turn our attentions away from the demands of the world and turn them to the ultimate source of all Blessing, God.
VK: And that is something else that we forget about in these excessively busy days – our need to refresh ourselves by focusing on God. Jesus’ half-brother, James, reminded us in the book named after him in James, chapter 1, verse 17 that “Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father who created all the lights in the heavens.” We forget that we need to consciously turn to God to get the help that we need to handle what life and this world throw at us. The Bible is filled with encouragement for us to turn to the Lord and allow Him to carry our burdens. One of the best known verses for that is 1 Peter 5:7 which tells us “to cast all our cares on Him because He cares for us.” So, a second reason the 7th day is blessed is because it among all the days is the one that is supposed to be specifically dedicated to the Blesser.
RD: Yes. So, let’s look at all of this in the context of the 4th commandment. God had just delivered His people from slavery in Egypt. Beyond the initial delivery God had miraculously protected them from the Egyptians’ attempt to recapture them and in the process of doing so God had destroyed the bulk of the Egyptian fighting force. This would have relieved the Hebrews, at least somewhat, of the worry that the Egyptians might make another attempt to bring them back into slavery. So, by the 3rd month they are starting to feel more certain that they really are headed for a new future – one that would have been impossible to envision just a few months earlier. And now God is giving them His instructions for what that new future will look like. It must have been a bit of a relief to know that God did not expect them to enter a new period of slavery when they arrived in the Promised Land. In fact, God expected them to rest one day a week and be refreshed by remembering Him.
VK: And for the Hebrews who had just experienced the physical delivery focusing on Him would have been a different experience than it is for us. They had seen God’s power “up close and personal.” They knew, or should have known, that God had a special concern for their welfare and well-being. And they had had many experiences with physical manifestations of God’s presence and attention to them – the miracles in Egypt, the pillar of fire, and the column of cloud. For us, sometimes our awareness of God may seem a bit abstract. We know God exists but our primary knowledge of God comes from the testimony of the creation and the Bible. But for the Israelites who had just come out of Egypt their awareness of God had been fortified by God’s direct intercession in their lives and in physical manifestations.
RD: Right. For us the 4th commandment is certainly important but for the Hebrews who first received it, it would have generated a set of emotions and reactions that it is hard for us to relate to. But certainly one benefit to us of the fact that God had so powerfully intervened on their behalf was their preservation of the testimony of what had occurred to them. They created an enduring record in part because God had made His presence unmistakable. And in making His presence unmistakable He ensured that we would be as aware of His commandments as the first recipients were. And there’s one final point that we should note about the 4th commandment before we close for today.
VK: What’s that?
RD: Let’s consider for a moment why we use a 7-day week. We know why we mark our lives off by days. That’s the length of time it takes the earth to revolve around its axis once and we see the beginning and ending of days in cycles of light and dark. And we know why we use a 365 day year. That’s the length of time it takes the earth to make a complete revolution around the sun and the sense of using the solar cycle for our year is validated by how it affects food production, the varying need for shelter and protection, and the behavior of animals. And the same thing is true for a month that is approximately 30 days. That’s based on the period of the moon’s rotation around the earth and that generates visible manifestations as in the variance in tides. But why do we use a 7 day week?
VK: I see what you’re getting at. There are no astronomical or celestial manifestations that are tied to the week. It’s not the period of the rotation of the sun, moon, earth, or even of any lesser stellar bodies like planets or stars. Nor, do the plants or animals exhibit any particular behaviors based on whether it’s the first or last day of a week. Bears may take the winter off but they don’t take weekends off. So, the reason we use a 7 day week is based entirely on the Bible’s description of God’s creative activity. And it is interesting that the 7-day week has been accepted so widely around the world, even in many different cultures that don’t particularly make the Bible the centerpiece of their cultural or religious beliefs.
RD: At different points of human history other subdivisions of the month have been used. The ancient Romans had a 10-day “week” for a while and gradually moved to the use of an 8-day week. The ancient Egyptians divided the months into three weeks – the workweek was nine days long, followed by one day of rest. Interestingly enough, even the ancient Greeks and Persians used a 7-day week which many scholars believe they adopted from the Jews after the Babylonian captivity.
VK: Which is peculiar in and of itself because the Jews were a conquered and captive people. It’s pretty rare that the conquerors begin to use the customs of the conquered. But that seems to have happened in the case of defining a week.
RD: Right. But, of course, there was a good reason for them to do it. God established the 7-day week because of the period He used for creation but of course God designed man such that a one day or rest in 7 was necessary for healthy, fulfilling, and productive living. As you noted earlier people today tend to think they can ignore this basic fact but we do so at our own peril. God knew we needed rest to live joyful lives. He designed humans and the calendar system to give us that rest. He set the example, and, of course, he ratified that basic wisdom in the 4th commandment.
VK: And frankly, we need a relationship with God even more than we need rest. Nehemiah 8:10 tells us that “the joy of the Lord is [our] strength.” Was Nehemiah just being poetic or was he telling his audience a basic truth. Human beings have both a body and a soul and spirit. The body won’t be healthy with an unhealthy spirit and God is the only source of spiritual health. And many people have discovered God will let our physical health break down to remind them of the need to maintain a connection with Him.
RD: As we have said in every episode in this series, God gave us the 10 commandments for our benefit. And we cannot ignore God’s transcendent truth and expect to prosper. That includes the truth that we need to give our bodies appropriate physical rest and we need to give our spirits the spiritual rest that comes from casting our cares on the One who cares for us. We all have burdens. We are either going to carry those burdens or we are going to place those burdens on the only other Person who has offered to share our yoke: Jesus. The choice is our but to live joyful, peaceful, and productive lives we must honor God by honoring the Sabbath He created for our benefit.
VK: We can and should turn to God because He always knows what’s best for us. And as a truly loving God He wants what’s best for us even if we don’t always know what that is. The 4th commandment protects us because it tells us that our God is a God who is concerned enough about us to want us to properly care for our bodies and spirits. So, this sounds like a great time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for Christian missionaries - those who carry the good news about God’s care for us to all the world.
---- PRAYER FOR CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verses 9, and 11, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Evidence for the Bible (creation.com)

Episode 210 – Ten Commandments – Part 6 – Family First
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Respect your father and your mother, and you will live a long time in the land I am giving you.
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 12, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re so happy that you are able to join us for another episode of Anchored by Truth as we continue our series on the Ten Commandments. In this series we want to remind people that the 10 commandments were given to us to enable us to live better lives. God is perfect in every way. God did not need the 10 commandments to make His life better. But we do. This was true for the first people to hear the commandments 3,500 years ago, the Hebrew people who were part of the exodus from Egypt. And it remains true for us today. To help us think through the reasons we continue to benefit from the 10 commandments, in the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, so far in this series we have covered the first 4 commandments. Today, we get to the 5th commandment which some scholars see as a transitional commandment. Why is that?
RD: Many commentators have divided the 10 commandments into 2 groups called “tables.” We’ve mentioned that in a couple of episodes in this series. Often the 1st four commandments are considered the first table of the law. Their purpose is to help us have a better relationship with God. The last six commandments are often called the 2nd table. Their purpose is to help us have better relationships with other people. So, in this two table division the 5th commandment is the start of the second table. Some scholars actually believe that that is how God divided the commandments when He wrote on the stone tablets mentioned in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy.
VK: But of course we have no way of knowing that for sure. For a while, the stone tablets on which God wrote were stored in the Ark of the Covenant. But the Ark is last mentioned in scripture in Second Chronicles chapter 35. That reference tells us that King Josiah asked the Levites to return the Ark to the Temple where Solomon had originally housed it. There is no mention as to why the Levites had removed the Ark in the first place, nor is there any indication as to whether or not the Levites acquiesced to King Josiah's request. King Josiah reigned in Judah 640-609 BC.
RD: There is a mention of the ark in the book of Second Maccabees, chapter 2, verses 1-8. That reference says that the prophet Jeremiah was given a divine revelation to take the “tent” and the ark to “the mountain which Moses climbed to see God's inheritance. When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a room in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he blocked up the entrance." The “tent” was the portable tabernacle that the Hebrews had used in the desert during their journey from Egypt to the Promised Land. The mountain would likely be Mt. Nebo which is mentioned in Deuteronomy 31:1-4. Second Maccabees is, of course, part of the Apocrypha and is not accepted as being canonical by much of the church. At any rate even if the Maccabees reference was accurate we still have the ark disappearing from history before the Babylonian captivity which would mean the tablets disappeared over 2,500 years ago.
VK: Fortunately for us the content of what was written on the tablets has been preserved for us in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. So, even though we don’t have the physical tablets we know what they said.
RD: Yes. And as you mentioned the 5th commandment is often seen as a transitional commandment since it ushers in the transition from the 1st table to the 2nd table. And the content of the 5th commandment links the content of the 2 tables. The first table is focused on God but ends with a commandment that is centered around how we are to structure our weeks – 6 days for work, one day for rest and worship. The 5th commandment is focused on the first institution created by God for man’s benefit – the family. So, the 5th commandment is the beginning of all authority structures for man.
VK: God, of course, is the ultimate authority. In the Garden of Eden God delegated authority to care for the garden and the animals to man. God made man His steward over creation. Now, in the 5th commandment God expressly delegates the authority over the family to the father and mother. Now we might want to note that this authority structure had been in place since creation. The authority structure did not begin when the commandments were given. But when God said to “respect your father and mother” he was reiterating the validity and importance of the familial authority structure. He was also ensuring that the Hebrews understood that the principle that children must respect their parents isn’t just for the benefit of parents. It has benefits for the children as well.
RD: The 5th commandment is often referred to as the first commandment with “promise.” God says there is a specific benefit attached to obedience of the 5th commandment.
VK: In our opening scripture which came from the Contemporary English Version of the Bible the commandment was phrased, “Respect your father and your mother, and you will live a long time in the land I am giving you. The New King James Version puts the 5th commandment this way: “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.” In other words the Lord is tying respect or honor for fathers and mothers to longevity. But scholars are not in agreement about whether the longevity in view is for the individuals or whether it is more of a promise to the nation that if Hebrew children will obey their parents the nation will survive for a long time in the land to which they are journeying.

RD: And there’s probably a bit of both ideas in view. Commentators sometimes remind us that ideas such as the one contained in the 5th commandment are “principles” not “promises.” In other words, God isn’t providing a guarantee that just because a child is obedient to their parents the will have a long life. We know from our own life experiences that even obedient kids can die far too young from accidents or disease. But it is also true that if a wise parent gives their children cogent advice which the child follows the child is far more likely to avoid an untimely end. I had a friend of mine tell me that his father had told him before he entered West Point that “nothing good happens after midnight on Saturday night.” His dad was simply telling him that getting home safely early would keep him out of a lot of mischief. It was good advice then and it’s good advice now.
VK: But we also don’t want to overly secularize the intent of the promise in the 5th commandment. James 1:17 tells us that every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of light. God can and does intercede in the lives of His children and, while it is not absolute guarantee, as a general rule God will entrust more blessings to those of His children who have demonstrated they can handle them. There’s an old saying that “most men can handle poverty, but there are precious few who can survive prosperity.” God is not a distant or disinterested Father. We can’t be absolutely sure why He does anything. As Isaiah, chapter 55, verse 9 tells us, “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” But, generally, God blesses His obedient children. We shouldn’t dismiss the idea that God will take note of which of His children follow His commandments and a longer life is certainly one blessing God can confer even if the world seems arrayed against that possibility.
RD: Yes. So, certainly one idea that is contained in the 5th commandment is that children should be obedient to their parents. But just as the accompanying idea of longevity is not an absolute promise, the 5th commandment does not require a son or daughter to be blindly obedient to their parents. There is an unspoken idea in the commandment that the parent has an obligation to not demand that their child do anything that would violate any of the other commandments or any of God’s other principles or laws.
VK: In other words if a father told a child to go rob a bank the child is under no obligation to obey that instruction just because it came from the father. Robbing a bank would violate the 8th commandment against theft.
RD: And a daughter should not abort her unborn baby just because her parents insist that she do so. That would violate the 6th commandment against taking an innocent human life. We could give a lot of specific examples of times that a child would actually dishonor their parents if they followed an instruction literally. So, one way to make a general statement is that the child should honor their parents’ instructions provided those instructions are not immoral, illegal, or unethical.
VK: So, one of the major ideas that is contained in the 5th commandment is that children should be obedient to their parents. But you have said that that is not the only idea mandated by the 5th commandment. As you have said, our compliance with the 5th commandment will mature as our lives, and those of our parents, progress. What do mean by that?
RD: Well, when we are young our parents take care of us. But there may come a time when we must take care of our parents. So, respecting and honoring our parents means that if, and when, that time comes we must be prepared to do so.
VK: What you are saying is that if we are fortunate to have parents who live long enough to become elderly, at some point they are going to require the assistance of their children. They may need help with tasks around the house, getting to the doctors or other appointments, driving, etc. They may also need help with managing their money or finding assistance for living conditions.
RD: Correct. Many people will be self-sufficient into their 80’s or even 90’s but some parents might have health issues and need help sooner. Just about anyone who lives long enough is going to need some kind of help. It may be a not or it may be a little. And the first people who should step up and provide that help are the kids. And as a service to our listeners we want to warn them about a particular kind of danger that arises for too many of the vulnerable elderly these days: financial exploitation.
VK: Financial exploitation is a particularly dangerous form of danger that has arisen in the past few decades. And it can take various forms. Sometimes it is unscrupulous salesmen or contractors who know that many elderly people need help and don’t know where to find it. And they know that often times elderly people are lonely and if they find someone who will just listen to them they will overpay for goods and services. Sometimes it’s because the elderly just don’t know what prices are reasonable any more. Sometimes it’s a deliberate scam like selling an elderly person over-priced cleaning equipment, charging way too much for simple home repairs, or just selling things the persons doesn’t need. But there is a truly reprehensible form of financial exploitation that has become all too common in the US because of the way we pay for long term care such as nursing home.
RD: You’re thinking of the way in which some kids will deliberately impoverish their parents in order to transfer the payment burden for long term care from the family to the government.
VK: Yes. We don’t have anywhere near the time to cover this subject in detail, but because of the US federal regulations for the Medicaid program the federal government will pay for nursing home care for impoverished elderly patients. The intent of the program is noble but in practice it establishes a perverse incentive. I’ve seen cases where the kids say to mom and dad, “if you transfer all of your money and assets to us then when you need to go to a nursing home the government will pay for it. That will ensure we get your money and can use it to help keep you more comfortable.” Sadly, in many, many cases that’s not how it works out.
RD: No. It’s not. Our purpose on Anchored by Truth is not to provide advice on either families or finances. Our purpose is to demonstrate the inspiration, inerrancy, and infallibility of scripture. But we can’t pass over the implications of the 5th commandment and not provide this warning. Government programs are intended to help the truly vulnerable. So, any set of children who are suggesting that their parents divest themselves or their life savings, home, property, or anything else just to make sure they qualify for long term care paid for by the government are violating not only the 5th commandment but also the 8th and 10th commandments at a minimum.
VK: The 8th commandment prohibits stealing. And that’s what you’re doing when you artificially manipulate your parents’ financial condition to shift a burden from the family to the government. And the 10th commandment prohibits coveting the property, or anything else, of someone else – including anything that belongs to your parents or the government.
RD: We’re certainly not saying that it cases of genuine need and qualification it may be necessary for loved ones to get long term care paid for by the government. The purpose of these programs is to alleviate suffering. Having had a lot of experience with them I’m not sure they accomplish that objective but that isn’t our focus today. Our focus is to make sure that people understand that as our elders age and need support the 5th commandment makes it mandatory that children do the best they can to provide that support. Not everyone can do everything. But the point of the 5th commandment is that we must do what we can. We must not ignore the plight of our parents and we can’t shuffle the burden off on others.
VK: And, as a general principle, our Christian faith means that we should be prepared to assist, as we are able, those who have been like fathers or mothers to us, even if the biological relationship isn’t strictly parent child. Aunts, uncles, certainly grandparents, but even older neighbors may have been important as we grew up and they should not be forgotten or ignored when they need help. I know that you spent over 5 years visiting one elderly man in a nursing home reading the Bible to him because he was blind. And you took him quite a few meals of the kind that he had no access to because he was poor as well as having numerous physical disabilities.
RD: I did after someone brought his condition to my attention. And I know that we are all busy with needs and plans of our own but there will come a time when most of us will need help. We used to say that “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” was the Golden Rule. At any rate, we want people to understand that being obedient to the 5th commandment has implications beyond just doing what your father and mother tells you to do. And we ignore this commandment at our own peril.
VK: Every stable society that has ever existed has been built on a strong family structure. And this is one area where the commandment that God gave to the Exodus Hebrews actually corresponded to the society they were leaving. There are records of Egyptian philosophers admonishing their society that obedience to parents was not only right and proper but that it would be good for the children. In fact, one of their philosophers actually noted that obedience was linked to longevity.
RD: One of their sages, Ptah-hotep, said "The son who accepts the words of his father, will grow old in consequence of so doing;" He also said, "The obedient son will be happy by reason of his obedience; he will grow old; he will come to favor." So, this helps to illustrate that even the pagan societies of the time of the Exodus connected familial strength with health and longevity. Now a lot of modern commentators assume that the promise conveyed in the 5th commandment was not personal, but national. But there are other verses in the Bible that indicate that there was at least some level of individual blessing in view.
VK: For instance, Ephesians, chapter 6, verses 1 through 3 say ” Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother’—which is the first commandment with a promise— ‘so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.’” Ephesians, of course, is in the New Testament so it was written about 1,500 years after Moses wrote the book of Exodus. But after all that time the Apostle Paul still saw an element of individual benefit being tied to children being obedient to their parents. And the Apostle Paul reinforced that tie to individual behavior and benefit by following those verses with verse 4 which says, “Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.”
RD: Right. The Apostle Paul made it clear that the 5th commandment does not give license to parents to abuse their kids or treat them in such a way that it inspires disrespect rather than respect. It shouldn’t be necessary to say it but the 5th commandment goes hand-in-hand with the fact that God expects parents to love, guide, and provide for their children. But, and this is a big but, even if parents fail in their obligations children may still not disrespect them. We need to notice that the promised individual blessing for respecting our parents is to the children and not to the parent.
VK: And that is peculiar to modern listeners, isn’t it? We hear an admonition to “honor thy father and mother” and think that the instruction is for the parents benefit. And certainly parents are partially in view. But the benefits of godly children obeying godly parents goes mostly to the children. That’s counterintuitive in our society.
RD: We started out noting that the 5th commandment is a transitional commandment. The first 4 commandments are about honoring God and His creation ordinances. The 5th commandment is a transition from focus on God to focus on man – and, just as in the Garden of Eden, the first thing that God transitions is His authority. Sequentially, God made man after He had made everything else because God was preparing creation for the creature He intended to make in His image. Immediately after making man, God gave man delegated authority by telling Adam to name the animals. God knew Adam wouldn’t find His perfect partner among the animals but God let Adam find that out for himself. And once Adam had discovered this God completed His creative activity by making Eve. Eve’s creation completed creation.
VK: Now that’s something you don’t often hear people talk about. God didn’t stop creating until He had created Eve. It’s like the old joke. God made man but knew He could do better so then He created woman.
RD: Right. Man and woman were both necessary for God’s created economy and His plans for the created order. God only created 2 people directly but God delegated His authority to those 2 and all subsequent human authority has proceeded from the initial delegation. So, in the 5th commandment God ratifies to Moses and the Hebrews that His original delegation is still in effect. Within the family the parents possess God’s delegated authority. God always promises blessings for obedience so he continues that pattern in the 5th commandment. When children respect, obey, and, in time, take care of their parents, God will continue to convey blessings.
VK: Even in the human realm no one should expect to be blessed by disobeying earthly authorities. Disobey your boss and you can expect to be fired. Disobey the law and you can expect to have trouble. Disobey God and He has no reason to layer blessings on you. But, of course, there are people who are in rebellion against God but seem to be blessed.
RD: That’s a subject for a longer discussion. It’s a mystery that evil can seem to prosper for a while? But Proverbs, chapter 24, verses 19 and 20 tell us, “Don’t fret because of evildoers; don’t envy the wicked. For evil people have no future; the light of the wicked will be snuffed out.” But as you noted we certainly should not expect to be blessed by God if we are disobedient to God. And for those who might say they are not interested in God’s blessings – they’re fine with the other fellow – well, that’s a statement so foolish it betrays an ocean sized ignorance. God gave us the 5th commandment and all the commandments so that we would know how to not just enjoy life now but for eternity. This life is only preparation for what comes next. The saddest people of all are those who think that this earth is all that there is because by the time they realize they trifled with transcendent truths it will be too late. Not anything much sadder than that.
VK: But there’s no reason that anyone who listens to Anchored by Truth needs to fear for their eternal destiny. The 10 commandments are just another form evidence of a simple but profound truth - salvation is available the moment we realize that the Bible is the inspired word of God and Jesus is our Savior. This sounds like a great time to go to God in prayer. Since Mother’s Day is right around the corner today let’s listen to a prayer for our mothers and let’s always be quick to show honor and respect if we are so fortunate as to still have our mother present with us on this side of eternity.
---- PRAYER FOR MOTHERS’ DAY
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verses 9, and 11, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

When did the Ark of the Covenant disappear (allaboutarchaeology.org)

Episode 211 – Ten Commandments – Part 7 – Right to Life
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Do not murder.
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 13, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hi and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re grateful that you are able to join us for another episode of Anchored by Truth as we continue our series on the Ten Commandments. With us today in the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. So far in this series we have covered the first 5 commandments. Today, we are going to discuss the 6th commandment which we heard in our opening scripture. RD, what are some of the big “take-aways” from our discussions on the first 5 commandments?
RD: Well, I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. Certainly, one of the biggest take-aways that we’ve seen in our look at the first 5 commandments is that the commandments were given to Moses, the Hebrews, and us for our benefit, not God’s. God did not and does not need the commandments to improve His existence but we do. The commandments tell us how to have a better relationship with God and better relationships with other people. One of the other big ideas that we have discussed consistently is that all of the commandments can be viewed as having two dimensions.
VK: For instance, the 3rd commandment says, “Do not misuse my name. I am the LORD your God, and I will punish anyone who misuses my name.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version. So, the 3rd commandment like 7 of the other commandments are stated as “do not’s.” But we can also see that the commandment instructs us to revere and respect the name of God – that we should use God’s name properly. All of the commandments that tell us to “not do” something can also be viewed as telling us to do the opposite. Similarly, the 4th and 5th commandments tell us to do something. The 4th commandment tells us to honor the Sabbath day and the 5th commandment tells us to honor our father and mother. So, we can see that the 5th commandment also means do not disrespect or dishonor our parents.
RD: Right. So, understanding that the commandments all have affirmative and prohibitive aspects is another big take-away from our first several episodes. And a 3rd take-away is that the sequence of the commandments points us back to the overall story of the Bible. The first 3 commandments point to God’s personhood. God was, of course, present before He began His creative activity. The 4th and 5th commandments point to that creative activity. The 4th commandment defines the human week. So, it addresses the period of God’s creative activity. The 5th commandment reminds us of the product of God’s creative activity. God only created 2 people directly: Adam and Eve. All other people are descendants of our original parents. We honor our parents because God created our first parents in His image and then delegated a portion of His authority over creation to them. The final 5 commandments point to the sad part. The final 5 commandments remind us of the fall because without the fall none of them would be necessary. But the final 5 also remind us that as soon as the fall occurred God began a plan of redemption part of which is the restraint of sin through God’s law.
VK: So, that’s a brief summary of some of what we’ve discussed in our first several episodes in this series. Anyone who missed an episode can find it on their favorite podcast app or they can go to our website (crystalseabooks.com) and listen anytime. Today, we move on to the 6th commandment which – as we heard in the Contemporary English Version – is only 3 words: “Do not murder.” This commandment seems so obvious we might wonder why God felt is necessary to include it. Isn’t it self-evident that we should never commit murder?
RD: Well, we might think that but the sad history of humanity demonstrates that it was very much necessary for God to make it the first of the list of prohibited behaviors that apply to people. Let’s remember that we have the first murder in the Bible recorded in chapter 4 of Genesis which is the first book of the Bible. Cain killed his brother Abel out of jealousy. And things haven’t improved any since then. And we should make one other note about that first murder. God gave the 10 commandments to Moses and the Hebrews who were fleeing slavery and captivity in Egypt about 1,500 years before Christ was born – roughly 3,000 years after creation. During that 3,000 year period murder was not acceptable. The prohibition against murder existed right at the start. It did not just come into being when God gave the 10 commandments.
VK: And Cain knew that murder was wrong. Genesis, chapter 4, verses 8 through 13 say, in part, “Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” “I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, … When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.” Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.” Cain’s behavior clearly demonstrates he knew that murdering Abel was wrong.
RD: Yes. Cain tricked Abel into going into a deserted place because he knew he was planning on murdering him. When God confronted Cain he became evasive and lied. And even though Cain complained that his punishment was severe he didn’t complain it was unjust. He knew he deserved to be punished for what he had done. If Cain had not known that murder was wrong he wouldn’t have cared whether anybody saw him do it and he wouldn’t have lied about it. But he did. Cain knew murder was wrong which means the prohibition against it existed right from the beginning of humanity and either Adam or God had instructed everyone not to do it.
VK: And, sadly, we have plenty of other examples in other places in Genesis where people displayed a clear awareness of the prohibition against murder. When Joseph’s brothers planned to murder him they planned to do it in a remote location and they hid their plans. And Joseph’s oldest brother Reuben actually tried to save him. Reuben told the rest of the brothers ““Let’s not take his life,” [Reuben] said. “Don’t shed any blood. Throw him into this cistern here in the wilderness, but don’t lay a hand on him.” Reuben knew murdering Joseph was wrong. All the brothers did. So, the prohibition against murder did not start when the commandment was given. God was simply formally codifying an existing and well-understood ethical standard.
RD: And that’s an important observation. Someone might ask why God gave Moses a commandment for a behavioral obligation that had been in existence for 3,000 years. And certainly part of the answer is that the Israelites were entering a new period of their national history. When Jacob and his family had gone into Egypt there was a group of about 80 people. A little over 400 years later there was a nation of 2 million and God was relocating that nation, His nation, to their permanent homeland. This was a new chapter in the saga of redemption. God ‘s people were going to have their own territory and therefore they needed a set of civic and ethical standards with which to govern themselves. Through the 10 commandments and the balance of the Mosaic and Levitical codes God was providing those standards.
VK: Up until the exodus the Hebrews had lived in Egypt and so were living under the Egyptian civic laws. But now they were out of Egypt. They certainly couldn’t adopt any of the legal or civic codes of the Canaanites they were displacing. Those legal and moral codes contained things that were repugnant. Child sacrifice was acceptable in those cultures. Child sacrifice was certainly not acceptable to God. God wanted to be sure His people operated by a set of civic laws that reflected His holy standards – not those of the people they were displacing. The whole reason God told the Hebrews to displace the people who were occupying Palestine was because they had become so morally degenerate. In Deuteronomy, chapter 20, verses 17 and 18 God told the Hebrews to “Completely destroy a them—… as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.”
RD: Right. Through the 10 commandments and the rest of the law God was giving His people a set of civic and religious laws that reflected His holy character. So, when it came to establishing specific requirements God started with a foundational fact. God is the author of life. The first commandment that He gave to restrain man’s sinful impulses – because that’s what the last 5 commandments do – was to reiterate the importance of life, the right to life as we put it today.
VK: Wow. That’s something we never think about today in all of the discussions about abortion and other cultural issues. The foundational reason all innocent human beings have a right to life is because God proclaimed that we do. And one place He proclaimed that very clearly is in the 6th commandment.
RD: Yes. So, let’s sharpen our focus on what the 6th commandment says and what it does not say for just a moment. The 6th commandment does not prohibit capital punishment provided that punishment is performed by legitimate civil authorities in conformance with legitimate and appropriate (proportional) consequences for crimes such as murder or rape. The 6th commandment does not prevent Christians from serving in the armed forces that defend their nation against foreign aggression. The 6th commandment does not prohibit someone from using deadly force to protect their family, themselves, or their property from criminal assault or theft. The 6th commandment is concerned about the unwarranted taking of innocent human life.
VK: And a somewhat trickier extension of the 6th commandment is that it does not prohibit a doctor from making triage decisions where the doctor may have to save one life while others go untreated. The doctor that saves one patient while they are unable to save others has not violated the 6th commandment.
RD: And the 6th commandment does not prohibit Christians from issuing instructions in living wills or signing what are often termed DNR’s – “do not resuscitate” orders. Christians are allowed to refuse extraordinary medical measures necessary to prolong life if that is their choice to do so. But this is completely different from the idea of “assisted suicide” that has become popular in some countries. Suicide is self-murder so it is barred by the 6th commandment. Assisting someone to commit suicide is simply aiding and abetting murder. But where the patient refuses a drug or other intervention that might or might not prolong their life is a different matter.
VK: And such decisions must always be made by the patient without pressure from people who may have ulterior motives even family members. And the patient must have access to the best medical information that is available from competent doctors or advisors. And we certainly are not trivializing the difficulty of any of these decisions. You have said that sometimes it takes the wisdom of Solomon to know what to do and even then these decisions are extraordinarily taxing. The main point though is that the 6th commandment establishes a right to life but there are times when, despite our best efforts, life can only be prolonged by intervention that is uncertain at best and will inflict suffering at worst.
RD: Correct. There is a difference between us doing things that will hasten death versus doing things to prolong life. The former is prohibited but the latter is not necessarily required. Now, if the patient wants the intervention then they should receive that which they desire. At any rate it’s important to understand that 6th commandment establishes a basic right to life and the correct application of that right often requires considerable wisdom and prayer. But certainly one implication of the 6th commandment is very clear. Abortion is a violation of the 6th commandment. We often debate the question of what happens when the life of the mother is in jeopardy and there are legitimate differences of opinion on that question. All I will say is that I have very wise and mature Christian friends who differ so I think it’s a question where people need to make their own decisions.
VK: So, there are some situations in today’s world where we need to seriously consider the implications of the 6th commandment. But what about in Moses’ world? Do you think that there were there similar difficulties in the Hebrews’ minds when they first received the commandment?
RD: Well, certain implications of the 6th commandment that we debate today were not in debate in the days of the exodus. For instance, the Hebrews knew that the 6th commandment did not prohibit capital punishment for certain crimes because God had prescribed capital punishment in the law. The Mosaic Law required capital punishment for murder, rape, adultery, and a few other offenses. But the 6th commandment would have affected many practices that were common in some parts of the ancient world.
VK: Such as child sacrifice. Child sacrifice was practiced in many of the pagan religions of that time. The 6th commandment clearly prohibited the Hebrews from going anywhere near that practice even though it was common in cultures that surrounded them.
RD: Yes. And the 6th commandment had dramatic implications for other practices of that time. Most of the nations of that time were ruled by a king, emperor, pharaoh, or similar monarch. It was a common understanding in some nations that all of the property in the nation belonged to the king and the people only had control over the parts for which the monarch had granted leases. Well, in many of the ancient nations the king was considered to not only own the property but the people. So, the king could order the life or death of any of their subjects regardless of whether the subject had done anything that merited it. The same thing was true of slaves and slave owners. The slave could be executed at the owner’s whim. It might have been stupid to do so but the legal systems of the time would not have made it illegal to do so.
VK: So, when God issued the 6th commandment God was drawing a clear line of demarcation between His people and the surrounding cultures – not just in the case of their religious practices but also in the case of how they were to order their society. The 10 commandments established an ethical framework for the Hebrews as they were entering the Promised Land that would make them clearly different from the cultures around them. One of the biggest ways the Hebrew culture was to be different was that value was placed on individual life. That wasn’t true just for the Hebrew people but also for slaves who had no rights in other societies.
RD: For a variety of reason slavery was a common part of almost all ancient cultures. Most commonly when one nation conquered another and captured people those captured people wound up as slaves in the conquering nation. But, it was also true that sometimes people would sell themselves or their children into slavery because a famine or other disaster made it look more likely that they would eat as slaves or starve on their own. As you have noted in most societies slaves were just considered another form of property. But with the 10 commandments God began to establish the idea that all people are people and have some basic rights. The Mosaic Law put certain limits on how the Hebrews were to treat their slaves. This was a radical departure from the surrounding cultures.
VK: For instance, Exodus, chapter 21, verses 26 and 27 says, “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.” Provisions like this make it clear that slaves were people who could not be mistreated in any way their owner might like. In most of the cultures outside of Israel killing a slave would not have been regarded as murder. Their legal codes would have had no provisions for addressing the mistreatment of slaves. And some cynics would say that the 6th commandment did not address that situation.
RD: I know that some cynics would say that the 6th commandment did not address every conceivable situation where one human being might cause the death of another. But there were other portions of the Mosaic Covenant that did provide more nuances and did distinguish between what we would call first degree murder, manslaughter, accidental death, deaths caused by animals, etc. But the mere fact that the cynic would point something like that out points to man’s essential sinfulness. God gave a very plain commandment. Don’t murder another person. But people will then start to ask qualifying questions. What if an owner kills a slave? Is that murder? What if someone leaves a pit uncovered and someone falls in? If I sacrifice a child as part of a religious ritual, is that ok? We will pile the questions on and on. But the mere fact that we ask the question reveals sinful hearts. We ask them because we want to know the boundaries of the commandment. Why do we do that? If we simply accept the fact that God has issued a plain commandment and our intention is to obey that commandment all the possible variations don’t matter.
VK: I see the point you’re making. The scope of potential violations doesn’t matter to the person who intends to be obedient. The concept of murder is pretty clear. It’s killing another human being who isn’t doing us any harm and doesn’t have any apparent intent at doing us harm. If another person is planning on hurting us, our family, or others, that’s a different situation. But if our intent is simply to obey the commandment we will not only not kill anyone else we will go out of our way to avoid causing them harm because we don’t want to run the risk of violating the commandment. It is our sinfulness that wants us to begin to develop some kind of exhaustive set of rules because we want to be able to argue that we aren’t guilty even if we wind up doing what we shouldn’t.
RD: Human beings, all human beings, are prone to performing this ethical calculus which essentially asks, “how far can I go before I get into trouble?” The slave owner who understood the 6th commandment properly understood it as requiring him to value the slave’s life as much as anyone else’s. They weren’t concerned with defining limits which they had no intent to violate. Further, the owner understood that they had an affirmative obligation to protect the slave’s life and health. This was not a concept that was shared outside Israel.
VK: All of this points to the need for the Lord to include the 6th commandment within the 10 and to make it the first of the behaviors that were specifically prohibited. In coming episodes we are going to talk about the others: don’t commit adultery and don’t steal, lie, or covet. But by starting with “don’t murder” God, as He always does, puts first things first. The most egregious thing one human being can do to another is to physically injure someone. As bad as the other behaviors are injuring or killing someone is worse. God started with the prohibition against murder to restrain the worst behavior first.
RD: And frankly the fact that God made such plain statement about obviously harmful behaviors helps reinforce that these are authentic commandments from a holy God who has ushered His people into a new period of their national existence.
VK: How so?
RD: Think about it. If I started a religion and told everyone our rituals would include eating ice cream, pie, and cake and watching videos all night long, how many people would join my religion?
VK: Lots!
RD: Exactly. False religions promise people they will get secrets, or receive power over others, or give them permission to do anything they want to do whether it’s eating, drinking, gambling, having sex, whatever. False religions feed into people’s sinful desires and impulses. But God never did that. God’s law reflects his holy character and He wants His people to do that as well. God expects His people to be kind, careful, caring, just, and honest just as He Himself is. So, God’s commandment instruct us to steer away from things that we all know are wrong but we find ourselves drawn to by our sinful impulses. We know the 10 commandments are from a holy God because the commandments help us restrain our sin rather than telling us to indulge in it.

VK: And that’s a topic we are going to continue to explore in our next episode of Anchored by Truth. If the ancient Hebrews hadn’t been like us they wouldn’t have needed the commandments to ensure they separated their behavior from those of the people they were displacing. But they were like us. So, God wanted them to begin a new chapter in their national life by having a right relationship with Him and a right relationship with each other. Sounds like a good time to go to our God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for Jesus - who is the One who understood our sin but was still willing to sacrifice Himself so we might be saved from that sin to the eternal glory of a merciful God.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION OF THE SON
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verses 9, and 11, Aramaic Bible in Plain English

When did the Ark of the Covenant disappear (allaboutarchaeology.org)

Episode 212 – Ten Commandments – Part 8 – Semper Fidelis
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Be faithful in marriage.
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 14, Contemporary English Version

********
VK: Hi and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re happy to have you with us for another episode of Anchored by Truth. Today, we are continuing our series on the Ten Commandments. With us today in the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. So far in this series we have covered the first 6 commandments. Today, we are going to discuss the 7th commandment which we heard in our opening scripture. RD, many Bible commentators divide the 10 commandments into 2 groups that are called tables. The first table consists of the first 4 commandments which speak about our relationship with God. The last 6 commandments speak to our relationship with other people. Of the second table of the commandments 5 out of the 6 commandments are phrased as “You shall not” or as it was more traditionally phrased “Thou shalt not.” The first of the “you shall nots” is “you shall not murder” and we covered that commandment in the last episode. Today we are going to move on to “You shall not commit adultery.” Are there any opening observations you’d like to make before we do?
RD: Well, before we get into today’s discussion I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. And yes there are a couple of observations I’d like to make up front. One is that dividing the commandments into a group of the first 4 commandments and a second group of the last 6 is a common way of approaching the 10 – but it is not the only way that commentators have divided the commandments. Some commentators have divided the commandments into groups consisting of the first 3 commandments and a second group consisting of the last 7. The thought is that the first 3 commandments – have no other gods before me, don’t make any graven images, and don’t take God’s name in vain – all pertain to God’s individual person and majesty. The 4th commandment is to honor the Sabbath day and some commentators have seen it as the first commandment that applies to human behavior. And a few commentators have even done a division of 2 commandments and 8 commandments. So, one observation is that while the segregation of the commandments into a first and second table is common there is not unanimity on the structure of the segregation. A second observation, is that even though 8 of the commandments begin with “you shall not” or “thou shalt not” all of the commandments should be viewed as both affirming certain things while prohibiting others.
VK: For instance, we heard about the first “shall not” of the second table last week – which is “you shall not murder.” That’s a clear prohibition. But the flip side is that we have a duty, in addition to not murdering anyone, to protect life. We should take affirmative action to guard human life because all human beings are beings made in the image of God. Human beings are different from all other creatures because we bear the image of the Creator and bearing that image confers an inherent dignity and status on people. We’re special because God is special. No matter what contemporary culture tries to tell us we all retain that special status because of God’s decree. God’s image may be fractured or marred in us but it is still discernible. At any rate, the point is that the commandments have both affirmative and prohibitive aspects.
RD: Right. And a third observation I would make is that as we ponder the 10 commandments we need to remember the historical context in which they were given. The Hebrews were leaving Egypt after an extended period of servitude in a land that was not their own. They were starting a new chapter in their national story. As such it made sense that God wanted to establish a moral and ethical foundation for His nation that reflected His character and which would distinguish His people very clearly from the cultures that surrounded them. The Hebrews had lived under the Egyptian civil codes for a great many years and, of course, they had been exposed to the Egyptians’ idolatrous worship practices. Furthermore, God was going to displace the people in the land to which they were heading who also had depraved and perverse behaviors such as child sacrifice and ritual prostitution. God did not want His people to start out this new chapter of their national identity with the codes of the place they had just left or by being drawn into the practices of the societies they were replacing. So, it makes perfect sense that God would start them out with a firm set of standards on which their new nation was to be built.
VK: And part of what God wanted to prevent was His people from adopting many of the pagan sexual practices which were so common at that time in Palestine. But, as we have mentioned before, the behavioral standards that are contained in the 10 commandments were not new in the sense that they had never existed before. To the contrary, prohibitions against murder and lying had been in existence since the time man lived in the Garden of Eden. God was reaffirming an existing standard but codifying it in such a way that the Hebrews would have no excuse for not knowing how they were expected to behave. Now, the 7th commandment is often phrased “you shall not commit adultery” but for our opening scripture you picked the Contemporary English Version which says “be faithful in marriage.” Why did you pick that version?
RD: Because I think that the Contemporary English Version gives a better sense of the real scope of the commandment.
VK: How so?
RD: In our society and culture the word “adultery” is often limited to refer to a sexual relationship that occurs outside of marriage. If “adultery” is defined that way, that narrowly, an unmarried person literally couldn’t commit “adultery.”
VK: So, what you’re saying is that it would be possible to limit the definition of “adultery” to one specific action and doing so would actually defeat the purpose of God giving the commandment in the first place. It rather sounds like using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law.
RD: Well, if we defined “adultery” as just a sexual affair outside of marriage that is what we would be doing – as you said we would, in effect, be using the letter of the law to defeat its spirit. The Contemporary English Version of the 7th commandment uses a “do” rather than a “do not” to express the command. The CEV says to “be faithful in marriage” which I think is more encompassing of what is actually in view. In the first place there are many people whose marriages have gotten into trouble even when there was no sexual activity outside of marriage. It’s possible to be unfaithful to your husband or wife and never have a physical relationship with someone else.
VK: Especially in our day and age when it’s common for both a husband and a wife to work outside the home many people will spend many of their waking hours with people other than their spouse. In fact, it’s not uncommon these days for people to spend far more time with the people at their job than they do with their husband and wife. That always presents a temptation for someone to develop a closer relationship with someone else than they do with their husband or wife. We have even coined phrases like “work wife” because it’s so commonplace for a man or woman to develop their closest relationships at the job rather than at home.
RD: Exactly. The economic patterns of our culture and many others have introduced relationship temptations that were frankly unknown 20, 30, or 50 years ago. It’s worth noting that the 7th commandment was given to a society that was overwhelmingly agrarian. Most people in ancient societies made their living by farming or tending flocks or herds. Families were together almost all the time. When they weren’t, more likely than not, it was for a specific reason like a religious festival or public gathering. So, the individual was going to be in a group and not necessarily in prolonged contact with other single individuals. In short, people today face far more temptation to develop close relationships outside their immediate families simply because we are far more mobile and less tied to immediate family contact.
VK: But the presence of greater amounts of temptation does not lessen the force of the commandment. In fact, if anything, it makes the 7th commandment more important because it means we need to take more care to avoid entanglements when we are away from our spouse or family. And, again, we aren’t necessarily talking about sexual activity. A lot of people who spend all day at their work are going to be tempted to make their primary source of emotional support somebody at their job rather than their spouse. And with the internet age, ironically, it is now possible for people to communicate and share intimate communication even when they are not physically present. This makes it possible for people to develop emotional connections with people that they don’t spend physical time with like working together. People today can have “internet affairs” which would also be a violation of the 7th commandment. We can see this from what the Apostle Paul wrote in Galatians, chapter 5, verse 19 which says, “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness. “
RD: Right. One current Bible commentator, Rick Renner, has said this: “When Paul begins his list of the works of the flesh, he begins with the sexual sins of adultery, fornication, and uncleanness. The word “adultery” and “fornication” both come from the same Greek word — the word porneia. This word includes all sexual activity outside of marriage — including both adultery and homosexuality. When referring to a woman who has committed adultery, the New Testament used the word pornos. This is the word for a prostitute, and it very vividly informs us that a woman who has committed adultery has prostituted herself. She may not have sold herself for money; perhaps she traded her heart, her body, or her emotions for romance, for emotional support, or for a variety of other things. But regardless of why she did it, God says she has sold herself and entered into the sin of prostitution.”
VK: Wow. That’s a pretty sobering assessment. And even though Mr. Renner has primarily pointed out the problem of women committing adultery we should note that the same thing goes for men. A man who commits adultery has prostituted himself just as much a woman. That’s one of the truly sad comments we have to make about cultural changes of the last few decades. Sexual deviancy has now become an equal opportunity plague.
RD: Yes. So, one big takeaway from this discussion is that the 7th commandment is not limited to an isolated activity which would then free people up to engage in other kinds of immorality, sexual or not, and yet somehow claim that they did not commit adultery. Jesus was pointing this out in his famous observation in Matthew 5:27-28. In the New International Version Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Now it’s important to note that Jesus was not saying that a man who looks at a woman lustfully has committed a sin that is equal to the man who actually engages in sex. What Jesus pointed out is that we want to limit the scope of our sins to specific actions that we can somehow claim weren’t sinful at all. But God looks at our hearts, in large part, because that’s where all sins begin.
VK: And Jesus noted that when He said, in Matthew, chapter 15, verses 18 through 20, “the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person;” That’s also from the New International Version.
RD: So, we can see that 7th commandment is not limited to an isolated activity in the way that many people would like to define it. The 7th commandment is concerned with faithfulness, with fidelity. The Contemporary English Version expresses this very well when it says, “Be faithful in marriage.” And while the 7th commandment was specifically focused on marriage let’s remember that there are only 2 human relationships that God has used to define His own relationship with people: marriage and parenting.
VK: So, what your saying is that God takes marriage so seriously that He has used the marriage relationship as a representation of how He relates to His church. The For instance, let’s listen to the Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians, chapter 11, verse 2 when he’s trying to emphasize to the Corinthians church of his deep concern for them. Paul wrote, “I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.” And, of course, there is one of the most famous of all of the Bible’s prophecies concerning Christ’s second coming. In Revelation, chapter 19, verses 7 through 9 the Apostle John wrote this about Christ’s return to earth for His church. “For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.) Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.” That’s from the New International Version.
RD: Correct. In our day there has been a general decline in the respect and reverence for marriage but that is a consequence of our sin. The Bible always treats the marriage relationship with the utmost gravity. As one commentator said the 6th commandment which prohibits murder is all about God forbidding the destruction of the people that He created in His image. The 7th commandment then follows to prevent people from defiling the body through misuse.
VK: Well, I suppose some people might point out that there were many instances in the Bible of even Bible heroes engaging in sex with multiple partners. And some of those instances seem to be ok with God. For instance, King David had multiple wives. And 2 Samuel, chapter 12, verses 7 and 8 say, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah.” So, verse 8 says that God gave King Saul’s wives to David. That seems to be inconsistent with the 7th commandment.
RD: Well, certain implications of the 7th commandment that we see around us today do not recognize the differences in cultural and civil conditions that have been present at other times and in other places. In the case of the verse you just mentioned note that God was giving the wives of King Saul into David’s “arms.” Giving them into David’s arms was a euphemistic way of saying the “wives” were entrusted to David for David to protect them and provide for them, not necessarily for sexual purposes. Let’s remember that we are talking about a monarchial system of government where a marriage relationship to a king had implications with respect to a claim on the throne. If Saul’s wives had not been entrusted to David it might have been possible for another man to marry one or more and then assert a claim to the throne. By giving Saul’s wives to David God precluded the possibility of a bloody power struggle by one of Saul’s relatives or supporters.
VK: But David was not the only Bible hero to have multiple wives or sexual partners. Abraham had a son with his wife’s maid. And his grandson Jacob who was the patriarch of the 12 tribes of Israel actually had his 12 sons by 4 different women. Leah and Rachel were his wives but he also had sons by their maids. Did God approve of all of these relationships?
RD: I think it would be more correct to say that God did not intrude into the actions of sinful people which resulted in the relationships you’re mentioning. And God managed the fallout to continue the progress of His plan of redemption but that is not nearly the same thing as saying God approved of the relationship. In the case of Abraham and Hagar, Sarah’s maid, that relationship produced a conflict that continues even to this day through the descendants of Hagar and Sarah. Ishmael is considered to be the ancestor of modern Arabs and Sarah’s son, Isaac, is the ancestor of the Jews. And while Jacob had 2 wives it was only because Leah and Rachel’s father, Laban, deceived Jacob into marrying Leah. Jacob loved Rachel and would gladly have married only her. And there is no indication in the Bible that Rachel could not have been mother to all of the 12 sons that God intended to give to Jacob to found the 12 tribes. And in the case of Abraham and Hagar, Sarah was the one who insisted that Abraham have relations with her maid because in those days the child of the maid would have been reckoned legally as her son. But Sarah’s attempt to help fulfill God’s promise through human means has created misery now for over 3,000 years.
VK: God can, and does, bring good things out of the actions of sinful people but that is an illustration of God’s grace and mercy. And this, in no way, should serve as an excuse for sin or violating one of God’s commandments. So, one thing we can say for sure is that none of these situations, whether David, Abraham, or Jacob, are consistent with God’s perfect plan of one husband married to one wife. All of these situations either resulted from or produced situations that were filled with heartache and strife. The same thing is true for all of the other episodes in the Bible where the characters departed from the simple sense of the 7th commandment. King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines and the Bible records that they turned his heart away from the One True God. The first recorded instance in the Bible of polygamy was in Genesis chapter 4 with a man called Lamech who was a murderer and a violent and vengeful man. Samuel’s father had married two women but the Bible records a house filled with jealously, spite, and vitriol. There are no recorded instances in the Bible where the Bible speaks commendably of polygamy or sexual relationships with multiple partners. God may have tolerated such situations but his ideal for human relationships remains the one He designed at the beginning and expressed in the 7th commandment.
RD: So, one thing we can see from all of this is that the 7th commandment while it is expressed in the specifics of marriage and sex points to a more fundamental attribute which God expects to be present in His people – faithfulness, fidelity. God expects His children to be faithful in all of their dealings with other people and He expects them to respect the rights and privileges which He has conferred on His image bearers. God created the marriage bond to bring completeness to a creature that He built to live in communion and not solitarity. While some of His prophets were called to live solitary lives these were special situations and not God’s desire for people generally. But anytime any human being lives alongside or in the company of others there is the possibility of betrayal. And that’s what the 7th commandment specifically prohibits. We are not to betray God and we are not to betray the most important person in our lives, our God given spouse. Because it is absolutely sure that anyone who is willing to betray their spouse is going to be willing to betray anyone else that might be part of their life.
VK: And that’s a really important point. Someone willing to cheat on their husband or wife is probably going to be willing to cheat on just about every other relationship in their life – whether it’s their employer, their best friend, or their family.
RD: Some cynics are going to say that the 7th commandment did not address every conceivable situation involving sex and human relationships. We human beings will pile the questions on questions to try to find some loophole or excuse. Our question reveals sinful hearts. We ask them because we want to know the boundaries of the commandment. Why do we do that? We want to know how far we can deviate from God’s plain instructions before we “get into trouble.” But if we simply accept the fact that God has issued a plain commandment and our intention is to obey that commandment all the possible variations don’t matter.
VK: I see the point you’re making. The scope of potential violations doesn’t matter to the person who intends to be obedient. The concept of fidelity in marriage is pretty clear. If our intent is simply to obey the commandment we will not only not cheat on our husband or wife, we will go out of our way to avoid causing them harm because we don’t want to run the risk of being unfaithful. And we will accept the fact that God’s standard for physical intimacy is restricted to a husband and wife within the boundaries of the marital bond. It is our sinfulness that wants us to begin to develop some kind of exhaustive set of rules because we want to be able to argue that we aren’t guilty even if we wind up doing what we shouldn’t.
RD: Human beings, all human beings, are prone to performing this ethical calculus which essentially asks how we measure up against the requirement. We rarely focus on the fact that God us His standards for our good and just devote our efforts to seeking His will and conforming ourselves to it. Frankly, if we had that kind of an attitude many of the 10 commandments would not have been necessary. As Paul said, the law is our schoolmaster to reveal our sinfulness – and it does.
VK: And that’s a topic we will to continue to explore. If the ancient Hebrews hadn’t been like us they wouldn’t have needed the commandments to ensure they separated their behavior from those of the people they were displacing. But they were like us. So, God wanted them to begin a new chapter in their national life by having a right relationship with Him and a right relationship with each other. Sounds like a good time to go to our God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer that our hearts and minds might be illuminated by the 3rd person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, so that our lives might increasingly conform to His will.
---- PRAYER ILLUMINATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 14, Contemporary English Version

Adultery, Fornication, Uncleanness, Lasciviousness | Renner Ministries

Episode 213 – Ten Commandments – Part 9 – It’s Your Thing
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
You shall not steal.
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 15, New International Version

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VK: Hi and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad that you are able to join us for another episode of Anchored by Truth. Today, as we continue our series on the Ten Commandments. Just about everyone in our culture has heard about the Ten Commandments if for no other reason the famous movie by that name. Yet few people today understand that the commandments are more than just a list of 10 “dos and don’ts.” The Ten Commandments were an essential part of God’s way of establishing a new chapter in the national identity of the people from which God was going to produce the Messiah. With us today in the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. Today, we are going to discuss the 8th commandment which we heard in our opening scripture. RD, like many of the commandments it seems like it shouldn’t really have been necessary for God to tell His people not to steal. But I guess it was necessary, wasn’t it?
RD: Well, before we get into today’s discussion I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. The 8th commandment was necessary for a number of reasons. But let’s clarify something up front. As we have mentioned in a couple of our episodes on the Ten Commandments the Ten Commandments were not new in the sense that God had never made it plain that it was wrong to steal before he gave Moses the Ten Commandments. Theft, like other sins, had been prohibited right from the beginning of man’s existence. Sadly, theft was part of the first sin recorded in the Bible when Adam and Eve stole fruit from a tree that did not belong to them. God had given Adam and Eve the fruit from most of the trees in the Garden of Eden, but He reserved one tree for Himself. The fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil belonged to God and only to God. So, when Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of that tree part of what they were doing was taking something that didn’t belong to them. That’s theft. And as we’re going to talk about today, theft comes in a lot more forms than most people usually think about. The sad fact is that the 8th commandment was certainly necessary because man had demonstrated a propensity to steal things that didn’t belong to him right from the beginning.
VK: So, God was not giving Moses a new requirement when He said “do not steal.” God was simply restating an obligation that had existed from the beginning of man’s own existence. And the book of Genesis contains other illustrations that people long before the Hebrews of the Exodus knew that theft was wrong. For instance another early chapter of Genesis, chapter 14 contains the well-known story where Abraham rescued his nephew Lot from the hands of raiders and marauders who had attacked the city Lot was living in. The raiders had kidnapped the city’s residents and stolen most of their goods and property. When Abraham rescued Lot he didn’t just bring the people back but he also brought the property back. Genesis, of course, is the first book of the Bible so this is another example from the first book of the Bible that the prohibition against theft existed long before God gave the 8th commandment.
RD: Right. But the 8th commandment does something else besides just establishing that stealing from others is wrong. The 8th commandment provides us with the God-given legal basis for recognizing the private ownership of property which has often been denied by various political and economic philosophies. Throughout history there have been various supposedly utopian philosophies that disparaged the right of private property ownership. There have even been attempts to build socialist and communist societies where private property ownership is either eliminated or severely curtailed. But none of these attempts has ever built a successful or prosperous culture or community because God designed the human economy to include the ability for people to be productive and for individuals to benefit from their productivity.
VK: The 8th commandment was God’s ratification in the basic legal code of the nation He was establishing that private ownership of property is an essential part of human society and economy. This does not mean that the Bible does not recognize that some level of common property ownership is sensible. One of the things God commanded the Israelites to do right after giving them the Ten Commandments was the instructions for building the wilderness tabernacle which was owned by the nation not be any individual. But just because the Bible recognizes that public ownership of some property and facilities is beneficial, the Bible does not endorse the notion that governments may steal from their citizens under the claims of public welfare. So, one of the first points we should note about the 8th commandment is that it is not just concerned with someone stealing their neighbor’s garden tools or shoplifting from the department store. The 8th commandment is concerned with a wide variety of human behavior including that of both individuals, groups, and governments.
RD: Bible scholars down through history have recognized that governments are as capable of violating the 8th commandment against theft as well as individuals. For instance, one of the best known Bible commentaries was written by Matthew Henry in the latter part of the 17th century and early part of the 18th century. Henry wrote this: “Plunderers of kingdoms though above human justice [break God’s law]. Defrauding the public, contracting debts without prospect of paying them, or evading payment of just debts, extravagance, all living upon charity when not needful, all squeezing the poor in their wages; these, and such things, break this command; which requires industry, frugality, and content, and to do to others, about worldly property, as we would they should do to us.”
VK: Matthew Henry’s observation helps us to see that the 8th commandment, like all of God’s commandments, are designed to help us recognize the sin that lurks deep within our hearts. All you have to do is watch the 3 year old steal a cookie to know that you don’t have teach people to steal. We all have a built-in desire to take whatever we want when we want it. You don’t have to teach kids to have that desire. What we have to do is to teach kids that even though there are some things that are very attractive to us that we can only have them at certain times and within certain limits. There is nothing inherently wrong with us desiring to have good things but we must all be trained to bridle those desires so that they serve us rather than leading us into sinful practices. That’s one of the primary purposes of the Ten Commandments and the laws of God. But one of our big problems is that often we do not think carefully about how easily we can drift into sin. We think about the commandment not to steal and we think that as long as we haven’t taken anything from our neighbor we haven’t broken the commandment.
RD: But as another Bible scholar John Gill, who wrote in the early 18th century, noted there is actually a wide variety of behaviors that violate the 8th commandment. Gill said this. “Thefts are of various kinds; there is private theft, picking of pockets, shoplifting, burglary, or breaking into houses in the night, and carrying off goods; public theft, or robbing upon the highways; domestic theft, as when wives take away their husbands' money or goods, and conceal them, or dispose of them without their knowledge and will, children rob their parents, and servants purloin their masters' effects; ecclesiastical theft or sacrilege, and personal theft, as stealing of men and making slaves of them, selling them against their wills.” And all this is exactly what God did not want for His people as they were leaving Egypt and heading for their permanent home in Palestine. As we have mentioned, God did not want the new nation to start a new chapter of its national identity be mimicking the patterns of the surrounding culture.
VK: And the last part of the quote you read from John Gill is a good illustration of how God wanted to be sure that His nation and His people did not adopt the economic or cultural depravities of the people that they were displacing. For instance, slavery was a common part of the economic systems and social cultures of just about all of the Canaanite nations. And a myth that is sometimes circulated about the Bible is that the Bible approves of or endorses slavery because the Mosaic law regulated slavery rather than completely outlawing it. But this is a more complicated topic than most people think, isn’t it?
RD: It is true that the Mosaic covenant regulated rather than outlawed slavery. There were a number of regulations in the Mosaic covenant that instructed Hebrew masters on how they were to treat slaves. But we need to understand that the kind of servitude that was in view was not the kind that we think about when we hear the word “slave.” Famines and economic distress were common in agricultural economies and it was easy for poor people to be in danger of dying because they couldn’t provide for themselves. In that kind of a circumstance it was preferable for some people to enter a period of prolonged service to someone else who could provide for their basic needs. And the Israelites were never permitted to treat another Hebrew as a slave. Leviticus, chapter 25 makes it clear that they were to help their neighbors who got into economic distress not force them into unwanted servitude. This, in and of itself, was a radical departure from all of the other cultures of the ancient world where there were few, if any, restrictions on mistreatment of the poor. In most cultures the rich and powerful regularly mistreated the poor in all kinds of way. But, as Gill noted, the kind of action that we tend to think of when we hear the word “slave” – forcing another person to serve someone against their will and without compensation - is a clear violation of the 8th commandment.
VK: So, it would be fair to say that the Bible does prohibit slavery in the way that that term is typically used in our day and age. All of this points to the need for us to be at least somewhat familiar with the historical, cultural, and social context of the Bible’s text, doesn’t it?
RD: Yes. One of the things that is often not recognized about the Ten Commandments is that they are not just 10 separate directives about 10 different things. There is a common thread that binds all of the Ten Commandments together.
VK: Which is?
RD: Which is what we might term “dignity.” Let’s think about this for a second. The first 3 commandments all concern themselves with the dignity of God. This is entirely appropriate because God existed before He made any part of the created order. The next two commandments concern themselves with preserving God’s dignity as that dignity begins to manifest itself in the created order. The 4th commandment to honor the Sabbath refers us back to God’s period of creative activity. The 5th commandment to honor our mother and father refers us back to God’s partial delegation of the oversight of His created order to the creature He created in His image: man. God conveyed a portion of His authority to Adam and Eve in what is often referred to as the “Dominion Mandate.”
VK: Genesis, chapter 1, verses 27 through 30 say, “So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, ‘Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.’ Then God said, ‘I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.’ And it was so. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.”
RD: Right. There is so much power in those 4 verses that we could spend many episodes of Anchored by Truth just going through it all. But our focus today is still the Ten Commandments and especially the 8th commandment. So, after God delegated a portion of His authority over parts of the created order to man in the Dominion Mandate God pronounced everything “very good.” And things would have remained “very good” except that in chapter 3 of Genesis we have Adam and Eve succumbing to the temptation of the serpent/Satan, stealing the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and bringing sin and death into the created order.
VK: And after Adam and Eve’s fall God immediately began His plan of redemption which unfolds throughout the rest of the Bible. And part of the plan of redemption was the restraint of the sin that had been introduced through the rebellion of our first parents. God immediately pronounced a series of curses on both Satan and man and began giving commands for how man was to live in a fallen creation. Part of the way God continued that pattern or restraining sin was to give the Israelites the Ten Commandments as they were leaving Egypt heading for the Promised Land. So, the last 5 of the Ten Commandments were all about the restraint of sin. But why do you say all of the commandments are concerned with “dignity?”
RD: Well, as I mentioned the 4th and 5th commandments are concerned with the dignity of God as God’s presence is going to be manifested in the now fallen creation. The 4th commandment is about God’s dignity which remains present in how we order our lives in terms of time through the work week – 6 days of work, one day of rest. The 5th commandment is about God’s dignity with respect to His organizational plan and transmission of authority among people – the creatures created in His image. The first societal institution ordained by God was the family and God implanted the authority for governing the family in the mother and father. Well, the 6th commandment – do not murder – is obviously concerned with the dignity of innocent human life. All human beings are image bearers of the Almighty God and so they possess the dignity that is inherent from bearing God’s image.
VK: And the 6th commandment tells us that we are to disdain that inherent dignity by willfully taking the life of someone who has done nothing to deserve that. Further, we are to protect God’s image bearers by protecting life. I see where you’re going with this. The 7th commandment is to not commit adultery. In other words, we are to protect the sanctity, the dignity, of marriage because it was the first institution created by God. God created the family for many reasons – to ensure companionship for a creature intended to live in community, to perpetuate human life in accordance with his command to “be fruitful and multiply,” to ensure a means for transmitting sacred orders and instructions, etc. So, the 7th commandment is concerned with the dignity of marriage.
RD: And the 8th commandment, at its heart, is concerned with the dignity of work. God always intended man to be a creative, productive creature – just as God is creative and productive. And God intended for men to enjoy the fruits of their labor. If you grow the crop you get to eat from the crop. You tend the flock you get to derive benefits from the flock. You tend the garden you get to enjoy the beauty of the garden and derive satisfaction from your work.
VK: I think a lot of people forget that work is not a curse. God gave Adam work before the fall. Adam was to name all the animals and to tend the garden before the fall ever occurred. Work only became cursed after the fall. After man disobeyed God man’s productive efforts would now be laborious and not simply a matter of joyful productivity. And you can’t separate work from productivity. Well, I guess you can if you look at some businesses and government offices. But, as a general rule, work produces a product or a result and the one who works is entitled to the benefit of their productivity. In modern society we usually use money as a medium to measure the value of work and products but the basic principle remains the same. Work produces a product. That basic right to the benefit of that product belongs to the producer. And for another person to steal or use that product without the consent of the producer is theft. So, when someone commits theft they are exhibiting a disdain for the work of someone else. They are demeaning the dignity of the work and effort that someone put in to earn the money, produce a good, or generate something of value. That’s not only a disregard for the dignity of another person’s work it’s exhibiting disdain for God and His economy. We sometimes think that economic systems are human inventions but the most basic economic system is working as God commanded to obtain benefits God permitted.
RD: God’s economy makes perfect sense. It is not only reasonable it is fair and just. Now, human beings distort God’s economy in all kinds of ways. Both individual human beings and collective organizations such as governments distort God’s economy and it would be impossible to catalog all the ways they do it. But one thing is certain – a great many of those distortions violate the 8th commandment. We think the 8th commandment means you shouldn’t steal your neighbor’s bike or ball but it also means that a corrupt government shouldn’t take money that’s earned by one person and distribute it to another who refuses to work or contribute.
VK: And that’s a really important point. Now we’re not talking here about cases where people can’t work and are unable to provide for themselves. Just as the Bible is clear that theft is wrong, it is equally clear that we have a duty to provide for the poor and less fortunate. Verses from the Old Testament such as Leviticus 25:35 make this duty mandatory. And verses from the New Testament reiterate this command. James, chapter 1, verse 27 says, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” That’s from the New International Version.
RD: So, the point of all this is that the 8th commandment, like the commandments that precede it is concerned with dignity. The 8th commandment is concerned with the dignity of work. Next time we will see that the 9th commandment is concerned with the dignity of words, speech, and truth. So, one thread that ties all of the commandments together is that are concerned with the dignity of God and the dignity of people because they are God’s image bearers. The 6th commandment is concerned with the dignity of their lives, the 7th the dignity of marriage, and the 8th the dignity of work. And one final point we should cover before we close for today is all of these observations point us back to reality of the creation record that is contained in Genesis.
VK: Well, the 4th commandment to honor the Sabbath is a clear reference to the creation story. God conducted His creative activity over a period of 6 days and rested on the 7th day. He directed that the example that He set be replicated in the lives of people. But how does the 8th commandment against theft remind us of the creation account?
RD: Because it reminds us that when God made the world part of God’s plan was that man would have a role in the created order that was different from that of all other creatures. Notice that other than giving other creatures a generalized command to reproduce God did not give them any commands or instructions. But as soon as man was created God gave man a command to “subdue” the earth and to “rule” over the birds, fish, and land animals. Said differently, God gave Adam work that went beyond simply doing what he to survive. And God always intended that man’s work would produce results some of which would belong to the producer. I say “some of which” because from the beginning man was expected to honor God with part. None of that would make sense if it had been permissible for other people to steal the results of others.
VK: It’s impossible to say what the world and the economy would have been like if the fall hadn’t occurred. It did. But we see from the first offerings that Abel and Cain brought that from the beginning God expected men to bring offerings to Him. Well, how can we bring offerings from the produce of others? We can’t. We can only offer to God that which we have produced and that means work and that means the producer is entitled to the results of their work. God built production and retention into the economy of the world and He protects the dignity of that system in part by means of the 8th commandment. We do know the 8th commandment would not have been necessary except for the fall because the 8th commandment restrains the sin that came from the fall. And that’s a topic we will to continue to explore in this series. If the ancient Israelites hadn’t been like us they wouldn’t have needed the commandments to ensure they separated their behavior from those of the people they were displacing. But they were like us. So, God wanted them have a right relationship with Him and a right relationship with each other so He gave them commandments to further that goal. Sounds like a good time to go to our God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for those who have dedicated their lives to take God’s world to all tribes, tongues, and nations so that all people may benefit from God’s grace and the Bible’s wisdom.
---- PRAYER FOR CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 15, New International Version

Verses for additional study - Hosea 4:2; Jeremiah 7:9

Episode 214 – Ten Commandments – Part 10 – The Dignity of Truth
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
You shall not testify falsely [that is, lie, withhold, or manipulate the truth] against your neighbor (any person).
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 16, Amplified Bible
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VK: Hi and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad that you are able to join us for another episode of Anchored by Truth. Today, we are continuing our series on the Ten Commandments but since we are coming to the 9th commandment we know we are starting to approach the end. With us today in the studio we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, today, we are going to discuss the 9th commandment which we heard in our opening scripture. That means that we have gone over the first 8 commandments. And in the last part of our last episode of Anchored by Truth we had begun to discuss the fact that one common thread that binds all of the commandments is that they are all concerned with the concept of dignity. Can you give us a brief summary of what you are thinking of when you say the Ten Commandments all concern “dignity?”
RD: Well, before we get to that I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. We’re very grateful that everyone is with us. So, for a second let’s think about the Ten Commandments as they unfold from start to finish. The order of the commandments within the Bible is not random or haphazard. God had a reason He put them in the order that He did. The first 3 commandments all concern themselves with the dignity of God. This is entirely appropriate because God existed before He made any part of the created order. The next two commandments concern themselves with preserving God’s dignity as that dignity begins to manifest itself in the created order. The 4th commandment to honor the Sabbath refers us back to God’s period of creative activity.
VK: The 4th commandment tells us that we are to honor the 7th day of the week because that was the day that God declared to be “blessed.” Genesis, chapter 2, verses 2 and 3 say, “By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.” So, when God instructed Moses, the Israelites, and us to honor the Sabbath God is directing our attention straight back to – as you said – His period of creative activity. God created for 6 days and rested on the 7th. We are to work for 6 days and rest on the 7th – just as God did.
RD: Yes. And the 4th commandment is evidence that the various theories that somehow the 1st chapter of Genesis refers to 6 indeterminately long periods of creative activity don’t make sense. God doesn’t intend for us to work for 6 periods of indeterminate activity followed by a rest period that might be thousands of years. God used a 7 day period of 24-hour days when he gave the 4th commandment and that is a direct reflection of how God performed His own creative activity. Then, the 5th commandment tells us to honor our mother and father. That refers us back to God’s partial delegation of the oversight of His created order to the creature He created in His image: man. God conveyed a portion of His authority to Adam and Eve in what is often referred to as the “Dominion Mandate.” So, the first five commandments are all concerned with the inherent dignity of God.
VK: But of course man also possesses an inherent dignity because man is the only creature that God made in His image. We possess an inherent dignity because we are the image bearers of God.
RD: Yes. And the 6th through 10th commandments, like the commandments that precede them, are also concerned with dignity. The 6th commandment is concerned with the dignity of their lives, the 7th the dignity of marriage, and the 8th the dignity of work. The 8th commandment, which says, “do not steal” is concerned with the dignity of work because it is through our labor that we produce the goods and services that we need to sustain our lives. If someone steals any of those goods or services, regardless of the amount or value, they have exhibited a blatant disrespect for the labor and work of another person. God took His own work in creation seriously. He said the product of His work was valuable. It was good. When God finished the entirety of His creative activity He said it was “very good.”
VK: God highly valued the work that He had completed. He should. He made a universe with 50 to 100 billion galaxies each of which has 50 billion or more stars. That’s an impressive total of production for 6 days. And while our own work is not on the same scale anyone who is performing legitimate, productive labor may also be proud of their efforts. So, if anyone steals the product those efforts they are just denying the producer the value and they are demeaning the effort that went into the production.
RD: Exactly. So, we see that the 6th commandment is concerned with the dignity of innocent human life, the 7th the dignity of marriage, and the 8th the dignity of work. Today we will see that the 9th commandment is concerned with the dignity of words, speech, and truth. And, to complete the thought, as strange as it may seem the 10th commandment is concerned with the dignity of desire.
VK: The “dignity of desire” – now that’s a phrase you probably don’t hear every day. Would you care to give us a glimpse of what you’re thinking about with that?
RD: I don’t want to take too much time today on the 10th commandment. That’s what the next episode of Anchored by Truth is for. But suffice it to say this. Too often, we equate the words “desire” and “lust.” And, as a general rule, lust is sinful. So, we think we are to avoid it. And, of course, we should avoid sinful lusts. But desire need not be sinful. The Bible commands us to desire good things. For instance, in the opening lines of the Lord’s Prayer Jesus taught us to pray for “[God’s] kingdom to come and [God’s] will be done.” Well, if we want God’s kingdom to come and God’s will to be done, then obviously we are to desire those things. We are to desire to live holy lives, to have faith, and to please God. We are to desire to spend an eternity with God in heaven. Desire is a basic attribute of being human and there is nothing wrong with desire. There is a lot wrong with allowing our desire to be transformed into sinful lusts. The 10th commandment not to covet anything of our neighbors helps us see where and how to draw the line. So, the 10th commandment is concerned with the preserving the dignity of desire. And one thread that ties all of the commandments together is that are concerned with the dignity of God and the dignity of people because they are God’s image bearers.
VK: Interesting. The “dignity of desire” – more about that in the next episode of Anchored by Truth. For today let’s turn our attention back to the 9th commandment which says not “bear false witness against our neighbor” or, as the Contemporary English Version put it, “Do not tell lies about others.” We might again think that this commandment would be unnecessary because it is so obvious. But it is necessary because we humans resort to lying so quickly when we get into trouble. And, even though the commandment is often phrased as “not lying about our neighbors” Christian scholars are uniform in their agreement that our neighbors isn’t just referring to the people living in the next house or apartment. The 9th commandment is concerned with a wide variety of human behavior including the behavior of individuals, groups, and governments. That’s why we used the Amplified Bible’s version of the 9th commandment as our opening scripture. Many versions will use the phrase “not bear false witness against your neighbor” but the Amplified Bible makes it plain that there are many forms of such “false witness” such as withholding or manipulating the truth.
RD: Bible scholars down through history have recognized that certainly one of the primary applications of the 9th commandment has to do with giving false testimony in a trial or judicial proceeding. But that is only one of its applications. The 9th commandment goes well beyond just one specific venue where lying is prohibited. For instance, one of the best known Bible commentaries was written by Matthew Henry in the latter part of the 17th century and early part of the 18th century. Henry wrote this: “The ninth commandment concerns our own and our neighbour's good name. This forbids speaking falsely on any matter, lying, equivocating, and any way devising or designing to deceive our neighbour. Speaking unjustly against our neighbour, to hurt his reputation. Bearing false witness against him, or in common conversation slandering, backbiting, and tale-bearing; making what is done amiss, worse than it is, and in any way endeavouring to raise our reputation upon the ruin of our neighbour's. How much this command is every day broken among persons of all ranks!”
VK: And another Bible scholar Matthew Poole, who wrote in the 17th century, reinforces the observation that there is a wide variety of behaviors that violate the 9th commandment. Poole said, “[do] not speak a false testimony, or as a false witness; which doth not only forbid perjury in judgment, but also all unjust censure, slander, backbiting, scorning, false accusation, and the like; and also requires a just and candid judgment of him, and of his words and actions, speaking well of him, as far as truth and justice will permit, and defending his good name against the calumnies and detractions of others.” Poole and Henry’s observations help us to see that the 9th commandment, like all of God’s commandments, are designed to help us recognize the sin that lurks deep within our hearts. (214 punch) Perversely enough, the 9th commandment about not lying about our neighbor is unlike the 8th commandment about not stealing because lying about others often injures the victim but doesn’t do any good for the liar. William Shakespeare wrote: “Who steals my purse, steals trash, But he who filches from me my good name, Robs me of that which not enriches him, Yet leaves me poor indeed …” What Shakespeare is observing that lies often destroy one person while not helping anyone else. Stealing property or money at least leaves the property or money in the possession of the thief. But you can decimate a person’s reputation with a lie and yet that may very well never improve the life of the liar. When you stop and think about it that truly is vile.
RD: The 9th commandment is one area where God’s commandments and law were consistent with many of the other ancient cultures which took lying, especially lying in judicial proceedings, very seriously. This is true because most cultures have recognized that lying in court makes the administration of justice impossible. The Pulpit Commentary available at biblehub.com says this about the 9th commandment: “ The wrong done to a man by false evidence in a court may be a wrong of the very [worst] kind – [it] may be actual murder … [because it is] fatal to the administration of justice, false witness in courts has been severely visited by penalties in all well-regulated states. At Athens the false witness was liable to a heavy fine, and if thrice convicted lost all his civil rights. At Rome, by a law of the Twelve Tables, he was hurled headlong from the Tarpeian rock. In Egypt, false witness was punished by amputation … Private calumny may sometimes involve as serious consequences to individuals as false witness in a court. It may ruin a man; it may madden him; it may drive him to suicide. But it does not disorganise the whole framework of society, like perjured evidence before a tribunal...”
VK: And as bad as lying in judicial proceedings may be for individuals and society the worst consequence of lying at all is that it displays an intentional disregard for God’s majesty, doesn’t it?
RD: Yes. In our day and age we have forgotten the importance of words, speech, and language. But the Bible makes it clear that words and speech are so important that God used them to bring much of what exists into existence. In fact, God’s first use of language occurs in the 3rd verse of the 1st chapter of Genesis. And thereafter, chapter 1 of Genesis is full of “And God said,” such as “And God said let there be light.” God spoke the entire creation into existence and as He did so He started assigning names to things: day, night, sky, land, seas, etc. Words and language are so important to God that they were the mechanism by which he created life and made the world a suitable habitation for man. And the first task that God gave man involved the use of language. Adam’s first task was to name the animals.
VK: Obviously, if God could give Adam a task that involved language we know that Adam was created with the capacity for speech and language. In fact, that is one of the major attributes that separates man from all other creatures. The ability to use language, speech, and words is one of the ways that man bears God’s image. Theologians sometimes use the phrase “communicable attributes” to refer to attributes that God possessed that He transmitted to man.
RD: Correct. Other creatures certainly use sounds and audible signals to communicate with one another. But obviously, the information that goes back and forth is rudimentary and biological. I’m well aware that gorillas have been taught words by stimulus and response and some have developed vocabularies that are impressive by non-human standpoints. But no gorilla or chimpanzee has ever written a sonnet and no dolphin has ever composed in iambic pentameter. The human capacity for speech, language, words and the ability to express abstract and mathematical concepts is unique among the creatures that live on this earth. Now we know that angels speak and use language intelligently but angels are, of course, greater in power, mobility, and action than human beings. No other physical creature besides man uses words, linguistics, and speech.
VK: So, when we misuse speech and words by lying or distorting the truth we really are committing an offense against God in a very real and fundamental way. We are, in effect, telling God that we have so little esteem or regard for the gifts He gave us that we are unconcerned about whether we use them in the manner in which He intended. In our time misrepresentations and distortions of the truth are so common that we come to expect them. We will use clever terms such as “political spin,” “gilding the lily,” “being disingenuous,” etc. to cover over the fact that someone is not telling the plain truth. We will excuse advertisers, marketers, and sales people for making ridiculous claims and say things like “well, that’s how business is done” or “everybody does it.” Students and politicians alike turn in work that is not their own as if it were. Lawyers go into court, blatantly lie, hide evidence, or use misleading arguments and claim that they are just providing zealous representation. All about us every day we see people manipulating the truth and we grow so used to it that we never bother to call it what it is: the sin of lying. But God is never misled and God always knows the plain truth. Spin is sin in God’s eyes and He sees the motivations of our hearts. Our clever, inventive ways neither mislead or please Him.
RD: Exactly. God gave man the capacity to speak and use language and words but He also gave us the choice about we would employ that capacity. He gave us free choice. But violations of the 9th commandment are not strictly limited to the use of words or language. We can withhold, distort, or manipulate the truth even when our words may be technically accurate. In my first summer at West Point they gave us quite a number of classes about the cadet honor code which in those days said, “A cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal or tolerate anyone who does so.” One of the subjects they discussed at length was what was termed “quibbling.”
VK: Quibbling was the practice of using technically accurate words that were intended to deceive or deflect. If a senior officer asked you whether you had shined your shoes, and all you had really done was rub a wash cloth over them, technically you could say that you had “shined your shoes.” But that, of course, was not what the senior officer was talking about. You knew it. He knew it. But you could – technically – accurately say “yes.” But that was quibbling. And I suspect it rarely fooled anyone at that place. But we have an awful lot of quibbling that goes on around us these days. Quibbling violates the 9th commandment as do all of the other detours and bypasses that are used today to manipulate the truth.
RD: So, the point of all this is that the 9th commandment, like the commandments that precede it is concerned with dignity. The 9th commandment is concerned with the dignity of words and speech in no small measure because words and speech are so important they were used as part of God’s process of creating the universe. God spoke many parts of the created order into existence. By words God ordered a world that was “void and formless.” By words God made living creatures out of inanimate matter and energy. By words God made people. Today, we have more ways of communicating language and speech than ever before, but it has made us far less careful in how we use them, not more.
VK: Well, Shakespeare also said “familiarity breeds contempt.” We have so many ways of flinging words about, we exhibit a blatant contempt for being accurate or careful with their use. Jesus’ half-brother James said in James, chapter 3, verses 5 through 8, “…the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.” That’s from the New International Version.
RD: The 9th commandment is concerned with the dignity of words, speech, and truth. James helps us understand the dangers that abound when we misuse them. In James day it was far more common for ordinary people to communicate orally rather than in writing. I have a feeling that if James were to bring his same message today he would note that not only is the tongue “restless” and “full of deadly poison” but so are our fingers and thumbs.
VK: Now that is a really scary and sobering thought. How many people ever think about the 9th commandment when they sit down at a keyboard and go into a social media site or get ready to send a text message? And how much of the content that circulates on the internet violates the 9th commandment? And how many of us contribute to this mass of misleading content? When you think about the 9th commandment that way it probably would lead to some troubling questions and consciences.
RD: God gave the 9th commandment to a people who leaving a period of captivity to begin to establish a new nation in a new location. As we heard earlier ensuring that truth is present in a judicial system and in judicial proceedings is a fundamental necessity for a sound society. In that respect, the 9th commandment was similar to the expectations of many ancient cultures. But in at least one respect it was different. As Jesus would clarify during His lifetime the neighbors who were not to be lied about or slandered were not limited to just Hebrews or Israelites. In the tale of the Good Samaritan we hear that our neighbors include even people who are not from our tribe and tongue. That was not all that common. Even in come cultures today it is perfectly okay to lie to someone who is not from a particular group. But that is not true for Christians. God expects us to be truthful in our speech, actions, and treatment of all people. This does not mean that we don’t need wisdom when we do so. We can, but we shouldn’t, hurt people by woodenly telling the truth. So, what we should do is pray for discernment to always be guided by a spirit of integrity but one that recognizes the dangers that lurk in a fallen world.
VK: We don’t need to tell someone that we hated the cabbage rolls that they served us at dinner. And we don’t need to disclose the hiding places of people fleeing death or slavery. The 9th commandment would not have been necessary except for the fall but the fall has occurred and the 9th commandment sits behind the 6th commandment that prohibits murder for a reason. Like all the commandments, the 9th commandment restrains the sin that came from the fall but some deviations from the strict truth will be lesser sins than the ones that might follow when we tell all we know at the wrong time. And that’s a topic we will to continue to explore in this series because we just don’t have enough time to fully explore it today. God gave us the commandments because He wants us to have the right relationship with Him and a right relationship with each other. But until Jesus comes again we still have to navigate in a fallen creation. That’s one of the big reasons we wanted to do this series. The Ten Commandments are enduring ethical principles that are the basis for sound families, communities, and nations. We used to understand that. But the Ten Commandments, like all of God’s pronouncements, contain and demand wisdom to correctly apply and understand them. We should be willing to devote the time and energy necessary to be sure we apply them correctly because God gave His all for us. We should be willing to give our time and energy to Him to understand how to properly honor Him with our lives. Sounds like a good time to go to our God in prayer. Today, let’s listen to a prayer that we may all be faithful stewards of the resources that have been entrusted to us. Faithful stewardship is evidence of our own faithfulness to the cause of Christ.
---- PRAYER TO BE A FAITHFUL STEWARD (MARCUS)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Amplified Bible)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 16, Amplified Bible

History, prophecy, ancestry, unity, and relevance

Episode 215 – Ten Commandments – Part 11 – The Dignity of Desire
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 17, New International Version
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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad that you are able to join us for another episode of Anchored by Truth. Today, we are nearing the conclusion of our series on the Ten Commandments because today we are going to discuss the 10th commandment. We heard the 10th commandment in our opening scripture. This is a particularly important commandment and as we will see if was placed as number 10 for a reason. To help us with understanding the critical role the 10th commandment plays we have RD Fierro in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, before we actually get into our discussion of the command against coveting anything that belongs to our neighbor are there any big ideas that concern all of the commandments that we should review?
RD: Well, before we get to that I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. We have a lot to get to today so I don’t want to spend too much time on a review ...
VK: And anyone who would like to hear any of our previous episodes can always find them on our website: crystalseabooks.com.
RD: Yes. But I will mention two big ideas that we have mentioned as we have gone through this series on the Ten Commandments. One big idea that we have mentioned is that the Ten Commandments were given to man, to us, for our benefit. Sure, they come from God but God doesn’t get anything out of the commandments. We do when we obey them. The commandments are sometimes divided into two groups called tables. The first table is often considered to consist of the first four commandments and this so-called first table helps us have a better relationship with God.
VK: And the second table consists of the last six commandments and when we obey them it helps people have a better relationship with other people.
RD: Right. God gave us the Ten Commandments to help us have better lives – not just on this world but on into eternity. So, that is one big idea that we need to keep in mind. And another big idea is to note that the common thread that is woven throughout all the commandments is that all of the commandments are concerned with dignity, especially the dignity of God.
VK: The first 3 commandments are all about the dignity of God’s nature. There is only one God who is infinitely holy, powerful, and present. Therefore, we must not worship any other Gods, or demean God by creating false images of Him or misusing His holy name. And the 4th and 5th commandments are concerned with the dignity of God’s creation. The 4th commandment to honor the Sabbath concerns the period of God’s creative activity and the 5th commandment to honor our fathers and mothers concerns the product of God’s creative activity – because man was the only creature created in God’s image.
RD: Yes. And the 6th through 10th commandments are also concerned with dignity. The 6th commandment is concerned with the dignity of human life, the 7th the dignity of marriage, and the 8th the dignity of work. The 8th commandment, which says, “do not steal” is concerned with the dignity of work because it is through our labor that we produce the goods and services that we need to sustain our lives. If someone steals any of those goods or services, regardless of the amount or value, they have exhibited a blatant disrespect for the labor and work of another person. And we saw in our last episode of Anchored by Truth that the 9th commandment which is the prohibition against lying is concerned with the dignity of words and truth. Words are so important that God used them when he created the heavenly bodies, the land and sea, and living creatures. And, of course, truth is so important that Jesus identified personally with the Truth. We hear that in our show opening in every episode. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.”
VK: In our culture we almost take it for granted that every person tells lies at some point. Lying is so pervasive we start to see lying or one of its many forms – political spin, misleading advertisement, misstatements on tax forms, etc. – as being no big deal. But lying in any form is a big deal to God. So, it should be a big deal to us.
RD: Exactly. So, we see that the first 9 commandments are all concerned with dignity. And, to complete the thread, as odd as it may sound the 10th commandment is concerned with the dignity of desire.
VK: The “dignity of desire” – you mentioned that last time. And as we said, that’s a phrase you probably don’t hear every day. So, let’s get into that. What is the dignity of desire?
RD: The dignity of desire is a way of saying that God built human beings with a desire for Him.
VK: This built-in desire for God has been recognized by many of the greatest Christian thinkers. For instance, the French mathematician, Blaise Pascal wrote Pensées, [PAHN-SEE] which was a defense of the Christian religion. The word Pensées means a thought or a reflection. In the book, Pascal said: “What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God himself.”
RD: Pascal recognized that when God made man in His own image God ensured that His image bearer would always be drawn to the source of that image – God himself. The image bearer would have a desire to know the source and to be known by the source. That desire, like all others, was corrupted by the fall. And, as a consequence, fallen man’s desires began to wander to lesser things – so much so that today we almost think of “desire” as being a bad thing, but it didn’t start out that way and it shouldn’t be that way.
VK: Too often, we equate the words “desire” and “lust.” And, as a general rule, lust is sinful. So, we think we are to avoid it. And, of course, we should avoid sinful lusts. But desire need not be sinful. The Bible commands us to desire good things. For instance, in the opening lines of the Lord’s Prayer Jesus taught us to pray for “[God’s] kingdom to come and [God’s] will be done.” If we want God’s kingdom to come and God’s will to be done, then obviously we are to desire those things. We are to desire to live holy lives, to have faith, and to please God. We are to desire to spend an eternity with God in heaven. Desire is a basic attribute of being human and there is nothing wrong with desire. There is a lot wrong with allowing our desire to be transformed into sinful lusts.
RD: The 10th commandment not to covet anything of our neighbors helps us see where and how to draw the line. The 10th commandment is concerned with the preserving the dignity of desire. One way to think about the 10th commandment is to recognize that there is nothing wrong with covetousness itself but there is a lot wrong with coveting the wrong things. I think it might be fair to say that the gist of the 10th commandment is that we should never covet “lesser things” – things other than God himself or those things that God has commended to our use and good.
VK: I see where you are going with saying that we should never covet “lesser things.” God built us to covet a strong, close relationship with Him. The moment we turn our attention away from God we are automatically turning our attention to lesser things. There is nothing higher and greater than God. There can be nothing higher and greater than God. God is perfectly pure, holy, just, and beautiful. So, as long as we keep our desires focused on God and His will we will be protected from coveting lesser things. This does not mean that we cannot or will not possess lesser things – the things we need from this creation necessary for life and existence. But we must keep our priorities straight. Jesus told us this in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 6, verses 31 through 33 when He said: “Don’t worry about these things, saying, ‘What will we eat? What will we drink? What will we wear?’ These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs. Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need.” That’s from the New Living Translation.
RD: Exactly. We need to be careful when we think about the 10th commandment because we sometimes think it says “don’t covet.” But that’s not what it says at all. The 10th commandment tells us not to covet things that belong to our neighbor – their house, their spouse, their animals or any of their property. One basic reason for this is that to covet anything that belongs to our neighbor exhibits dissatisfaction with God’s provision for us. It’s a form of ingratitude. It’s a way of saying that God has been good to our neighbor but not good to us. When we covet that which belongs to our neighbor it’s a refusal to acknowledge that God has been good to us.
VK: So coveting what belongs to our neighbor actually expresses displeasure for what God has provided for us. In a way, we think that covetousness for something that belongs to someone else shouldn’t be that serious. Covetousness is, after all, mental or a psychological. It’s not like stealing or lying where we have actually taken an action that injures another person. Coveting is internal not external. So, it would be easy for us to say to ourselves “at least I didn’t hurt anyone else” like the liar or thief. But when we start considering the fact that covetousness betrays a subtle disrespect for God we can begin to see its true sinfulness.
RD: Yes. We disrespect God when we covet what He has chosen to supply to our neighbor. But, of course, when God gave the 10th commandment God was well aware that sinful human beings rarely end their sin with the thought. Sinful thoughts become sinful deeds. That’s what happened in the Garden of Eden. Eve’s lust for the forbidden fruit began in her eyes, moved to an unholy desire to be like God, and then finally came to fruition …
VK: Fruition ... no pun intended.
RD: No pun intended ... the sin which began in her mind came to fruition in full blown disobedience of the single prohibition God had given our first parents. And that’s pretty much the way sin always progresses. Sin may begin in the mind but it rarely stays there.
VK: Jesus explained that very clearly to His disciples. In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 15, verses 16 through 20 Jesus said” “Don’t you understand yet? … Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. But the words you speak come from the heart—that’s what defiles you. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you.” That’s also from the New Living Translation.
RD: Exactly. God gave man the capacity to think and be aware of the world around them. God also gave us the capacity to experience desire. But God also gave us the choice about we would employ those capacities. He gave us free choice. So, we are permitted to direct our desire to a relationship with God or the parts of the created order that are good for us or we can direct our desire to lesser things most of which will not be good for us. And as we mature most of us realize that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to simply squelch desire.
VK: Just about everybody who has ever decided they need to lose 10 pounds knows that the moment they make a decision to go on a diet they began to think about food way more than they did a day earlier. Just about everybody who has decided to quit smoking or any other bad habit knows that merely making the decision to quit doing something triggers the desire to do it. And the desire gets stronger the more we intend to avoid it. It can be a devastating cycle.
RD: So, rather than just trying to squelch a desire a better strategy is to redirect it from something unhealthy to something healthy. We may have a hard time quenching desire but we can replace one desire with another.
VK: But the cynic may just say “why try to quench a desire? Why not just give in to it?” After all, life is short and comes with plenty of pain so why shouldn’t we just enjoy the things for which we have desire.
RD: If all our desires were healthy or holy we could or should give in to them. But one of the big problems with unholy desires is that giving in to them may produce destruction but it rarely produces satisfaction. The wisest man who ever lived found that out.
VK: You’re thinking about the book of Ecclesiastes which most scholars attributed to King David’s son, Solomon. Solomon was a very rich king. He could literally afford to indulge his every desire – and according to Ecclesiastes he did. Despite his indulgence, however, ultimately Solomon didn’t find his desire quenched by indulgence.
RD: Solomon had almost unlimited political power and wealth. Yet, he found that neither brought him a sense of fulfillment. Solomon indulged in just about every sensual pleasure possible. He tried sex, building huge structures, and developing elaborate gardens but none of it produced the satisfaction he was seeking. Even when Solomon turned to wisdom and philosophy he ultimately found that they did not give him a sense of meaning or fulfillment. So, Solomon tried quenching his desire by simply giving into it, by indulging in any and every passion that came his way. None of it worked. The depth of the desire which God implanted in Solomon, and in everyone for that matter, simply overwhelmed the ability of the world or the flesh to satisfy them.
VK: So, we are back to that “God-sized hole” in every man. We cannot simply stamp our desire like it is a campfire. And we can definitely not eradicate it by indulging it. One of the major lessons of the 10th commandment is that even if we went ahead and stole our neighbor’s house, spouse, or pets that would ultimately be a futile act. The covetousness which animated our action would be defeated even if we acted upon it. As Solomon put it in Ecclesiastes, chapter 1, verse 2, “Everything is meaningless … completely meaningless!”
RD: Well - almost. After working his way through a description of everything that he had tried to satisfy his various longings, his covetousness, Solomon concluded his meditations in Ecclesiastes in chapter 12. Verses 6 and 7 of chapter 12 say, “Yes, remember your Creator now while you are young, before the silver cord of life snaps and the golden bowl is broken. Don’t wait until the water jar is smashed at the spring and the pulley is broken at the well. For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.” And in the final verses of chapter 12, verses 13 and 14 Solomon said, “That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty. God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad.” That’s the New Living Translation.
VK: So, really what God was doing when he gave the ancient Israelites and us the 10th commandment is to help us avoid the pain and anguish that covetousness causes. Coveting our neighbor’s possessions is a longing for things that God did not intend for us. And since God is the One who implanted desire in us to begin with He knows the things that will satisfy us. And, of course, the one longing that we are always encouraged to pursue is a longing for a deeper relationship with our Creator. Solomon says, “remember your Creator while you are young.” If we follow Solomon’s advice, and establish a relationship with God when we are young we will live far more fulfilled and fulfilling lives as we go through life.
RD: So, the point of all this is that the 10th commandment, like the commandments that precede it is concerned with dignity and concerned with helping us live better lives. One thread that ties all of the commandments together is that are concerned with the dignity of God and the dignity of people because they are God’s image bearers. The last 5 of the commandments would not have been necessary if the fall had never occurred because their primary purpose is to restrain sin in the fallen creation. But even these commandments are bound together by dignity. The 6th commandment is concerned with the dignity of their lives, the 7th the dignity of marriage, and the 8th the dignity of work. The 9th commandment is concerned with the dignity of words, speech, and truth. And the 10th commandment is concerned with the dignity of desire – especially our desire for God. One final point we should cover before we close for today is all of these observations point us back to reality of the creation record that is contained in Genesis.
VK: So, really the 10th commandment is a perfect bookend for the 1st commandment. The first commandment tells us there is only one true God and that we are not to have any other gods before Him. The 10th commandment prohibits from coveting our neighbors’ possessions but what it is really doing is reminding us that we should never covet anything other than what God has intended and supplied. And we will automatically be protected from coveting anything that belongs to our neighbor if we do covet God and the things of God. We are not prohibited from coveting. We are prohibited from coveting anything lesser than God himself and the blessings that, in His sovereign determination, He wants to supply to us.
RD: God’s plan always was that man would have a role in the created order that was different from that of all other creatures because God made man in His image. God then gave man the desire to have a relationship with Him and the capacity to act on that desire. Sadly, Adam and Eve yielded to the temptations of Satan and began to desire the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil more than they desired the fruit of obedience to God’s commands. That first act of disobedience led to untold mischief such that the wisest man who ever lived would be forced to acknowledge that he could find no true satisfaction in anything of this earth.
VK: It’s impossible to say what the world would have been like if the fall hadn’t occurred. It did. But we can see the reliability of the Biblical account of creation from the fact that the sin introduced in Eden has continued to plague man throughout his history. God gave the Ten Commandments to the people He was sending to found a new nation to give them a firm moral and ethical foundation upon which to build their lives and that nation. Sadly, the ancient Hebrews were no more successful at obeying the Ten Commandments than our first parents were at obeying their one prohibition. And frankly we can see all about us the fact that the original commandment God gave to Adam and Eve was not only necessary but right. And we can see from the widespread disobedience to the Ten Commandments that they are not only necessary but right. Whether one commandment or ten mankind has a poor history of accepting God’s instructions even when those instructions would produce far better, happier, and more prosperous lives.
RD: In a very real sense the continued, widespread presence of sin shows that the Ten Commandments were a very wise precaution God took to try to forestall the ultimate decline of His people. And the failure of all of us to honor the Ten Commandments points to our profound need for a Savior to rescue us from our own rebellion. Adam and Eve’s sin in the Garden of Eden kicked off a sad sequence that continued through the flood, the captivity of the Hebrews in Egypt, and the ultimate fall of both the northern and southern kingdoms that the exodus produced in Palestine. But throughout this sad sequence God continued to unfold His marvelous plan of redemption and that plan would be consummated in Palestine 1,500 years after God gave the Ten Commandments. And one of the things we would really like for listeners to see is exactly that – that there is a sequence of history, man’s behavior, and the continued presence of sin in our world that demonstrates the validity and the reliability of the Bible. In our next episode of Anchored by Truth we are going to wrap up this series on the Ten Commandments. But at a minimum we want people to understand that the Ten Commandments are not a set of isolated instructions given to an ancient people to just put restrictions on their behavior. The Ten Commandments are part of the remarkable unity demonstrated in the Bible’s recounting of the grand saga of creation, fall, and redemption.
VK: Well, this sound like a good time to end for today and go to prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for the Son of God who is the One who was the subject of the plan of redemption and who makes our personal salvation possible. We will live far more fulfilled and fulfilling lives as we go through life if we obey the Ten Commandments, but praise the Lord even when we don’t Christ Jesus has made it possible for us to be saved and enjoy an eternity where we enjoy the blessings of His perfect obedience.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION FOR THE SON
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Exodus, Chapter 20, verse 17, New International Version

History, prophecy, ancestry, unity, and relevance

Episode 216 – Ten Commandments – Part 12 – An Essential Exodus
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
These are the words that Moses spoke … across the Jordan in the wilderness, in the Arabah opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel, … It is eleven days’ journey from Horeb by way of Mount Seir to Kadesh-barnea. In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, in accordance with everything that the LORD had commanded him.
Deuteronomy, Chapter 1, verse 17, New American Standard Bible
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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad that you are able to join us for another episode of Anchored by Truth. Today, we are going to wrap up our series on the Ten Commandments. To help us finish off this very important we have RD Fierro in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, we have a lot of information to get to today as we close out this series. And anyone who would like to hear any of our previous episodes can always find them on our website: crystalseabooks.com . We’ve covered a lot of material in this series but you said that today you want to take up another topic that’s relevant to the Ten Commandments that, so far, we have only briefly mentioned. What’s on your mind?
RD: Well, to get started I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. And the subject that I wanted to address, at least briefly, before we close out the series is how we can be confident that the Ten Commandments are what the Bible portrays them to be – transcendent moral and ethical principles. In other words, how do we know that the books that contain the Ten Commandments are reliable and trustworthy?
VK: Regular listeners to Anchored by Truth listeners know, we believe that there are four lines of evidence that demonstrate that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. First, the Bible is historically reliable. Second, the Bible displays a remarkable unity for a book that was composed by over 3 dozen human authors who wrote over a span of 1,500 years. Third, the Bible gives evidence of supernatural origin especially through a large body of fulfilled prophecy. And the 4th line of evidence is that the Bible has resulted in an untold number of lives that have been positively changed by its transcendent message. We also strongly believe that the Christian faith is a faith that is grounded in evidence, logic, and reason. Contrary to the refrain that you hear from some people that – “you have faith, but I have reason” – we believe that a proper use of logic, reason, and evidence actually demonstrates that the Christian faith is true.
RD: Yes. And we believe that these lines of evidence support the historicity and validity of the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. Or, speaking more broadly, we believe these 4 lines of evidence support the traditional view that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible which are sometimes called the Pentateuch. The traditional view that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible has been under attack for probably close to 200 years now. And we don’t have time in this show to go into all the heretical alternatives to Mosaic authorship that have been proposed. The alternatives are well known, well-publicized, and, sadly, taught in many seminaries. But the rebuttal to those heresies get far less coverage. So, that’s what we want to concentrate on today.
VK: Where do you want to start?
RD: Let’s start with some of the internal evidence contained in the Pentateuch that strongly supports the traditional view. To begin with let’s remind everyone that the Ten Commandments are first given in Exodus, the 2nd book of the Bible, but they are repeated in Deuteronomy, the 5th book of the Bible. This repetition is consistent with God’s pattern of repeating major themes in scripture. Just as a general statement God often repeats big ideas in more than one Bible book and certainly the Ten Commandments are such a “big idea.” The Ten Commandments were a critical part of God establishing the new nation God wanted the ancient Hebrews to form after He delivered them from Egyptian captivity.
VK: And this pattern of repetition and reinforcement is itself strong evidence of the unity of scripture. There are 66 books within the Bible but there is a single Mind behind all of the books.
RD: Yes. So, one observation that demonstrates the fact that Moses wrote the book of Exodus is that the crops and the crop sequence that is contained in chapter 9 of Exodus is consistent with the agricultural cycle of Egypt but not Palestine. Most of the alternatives to Mosaic authorship speculate that the Pentateuch was composed, or at least completed, in either the territory of Israel or Babylon somewhere between the 8th century BC and the 5th century BC. But when the book of Exodus describes the sequence of plagues that affected the Egyptian crops the writer got the type of crops, and the sequence in which those crops would mature, correct.
VK: Similarly, when Moses mentions trees and animals in Exodus as in one of the other books of the Pentateuch the trees and animals Moses names are found in either Egypt or in the Sinai Peninsula. The Sinai Peninsula was where Israel wandered for the 40 year period between the parting of the Red Sea and their arrival in Palestine across from the city of Jericho. For instance, the acacia tree which is featured in the wood used for making the tabernacle – essentially a big tent – is found commonly in Egypt or the Sinai but it is rare in Palestine except right around the Dead Sea. Another example is the animal skin that was used to cover the tabernacle or the furniture used in the tabernacle during transportation. The animal mentioned is a dugong which is found in the waters adjacent to Egypt or the Sinai but is unknown in Israel. The dugong is a marine mammal that is similar to a manatee.
RD: Exactly. And a third compelling example of internal evidence that points to Mosaic authorship in the 15th century BC are the geographical references found in the Pentateuch. For instance, in Genesis, chapter 13, the writer wants to make the point that the Jordan River valley is filled with lush plant life. In conveying his thought the writer refers his reader to “the land of Egypt as you go toward Zoar.” In doing so the writer is presuming that his audience knows what that region of Egypt is like. Otherwise there would have been no point in using it as a reference. That would have been completely unnecessary if the writer had been writing during a time period when the Israelites had been living in Palestine for hundreds of years. Furthermore, the specific geographic reference the writer is using is in the Egyptian delta region which is the region in which scripture tells us the Israelites settled when they first went down to Egypt because of the famine in Palestine.
VK: And what is even more striking about the geographical references in the Pentateuch is an almost complete absence of any reference to Jerusalem. The only mention of the city which was to become the centerpiece of Israelite history and culture is in the encounter between Abraham and Melchizedek when the book of Genesis notes that Melchizedek was the king of Salem. If the books of the Pentateuch had been written in either Israel or after the Babylonians had conquered Jerusalem there is no way an author writing then would have left Jerusalem out of his history. Jerusalem wasn’t just the capital city of the Hebrew people, it was where Solomon had built the temple. Jerusalem and the temple had been the center of Israelite life and worship for hundreds of years at the time the heretics claim the Pentateuch was written. Writing a history of their people at that time and ignoring Jerusalem would have been like someone writing a history of Great Britain in the 19th century and ignoring London. The idea would have been unthinkable.
RD: So, those are just a few parts of the internal evidence that shows that Exodus, Deuteronomy, and the other books of the Pentateuch were written by Moses in the 15th century BC and that he wrote them during a prolonged period in the Sinai desert. But in addition to the internal evidence that supports Mosaic authorship there is also external evidence that supports the traditional timeframe and location. For instance, there is a group of letters well known to scholars called the Amarna letters. The Amarna letters are a group of clay tablets which contain correspondence between Canaan/Syria and Egypt in the 1300s BC. In these texts, the rulers of various cities in Palestine and Syria complained that the Canaanite territories were frequently under attack from peoples they called ‘Apiru. This is not a term that refers exclusively to Israelites, but could have been a term applied to them in many cases. The rulers of the cities were writing to the Egyptians because the cities had been vassals of Egypt for a long time. The Canaanite and Syrian rulers wanted help to defend themselves and get rid of the attackers. The letters show that Egypt’s influence in Canaan was diminishing compared to earlier time periods. After all, if the Egyptians still had firm control of those territories the attacks wouldn’t have begun in the first place.
VK: And it’s important to note that the Amarna letters were written at a time about a hundred years after the Bible tells us that the Hebrews under Joshua had begun attacking cities in Canaan and taking them over. The pharaohs of the time basically ignored the pleas for help from their Canaanite vassals. This fits nicely with the record in Joshua and Judges that Egypt was not an impediment to the Israelites entering the land. A lot of people mistakenly think that Jericho fell and then Hebrews just assumed control of all of Palestine. But that’s not what happened at all. The Bible presents a complex picture of the conquest than a fast invasion and permanent takeover of the whole Promised Land.
RD: Many of the cities and places Joshua defeated were not occupied by the Israelites, but left abandoned. This allowed the indigenous peoples of Canaan to move back in. For a number of these cities, such as Megiddo, Gezer, and Jerusalem, Joshua’s army killed their kings, but the books of Joshua and Judges also consistently state that Israel failed to drive out the inhabitants of these cities completely. These same cities appear in the Amarna letters as those still under Canaanite authorities, so there is actually good harmony between the Biblical record and the Amarna letters. Another fascinating archeological find that helps support the Biblical account contained in the book of Exodus is a stela that was found in a shrine that is connected with the Great Sphinx at Gizeh. A stela is essentially a small stone column or pillar that has carved inscriptions. In this case the inscription records a dream of Thutmose IV (1421 – 1410 BC). In the dream Thutmose said that the god Harmakhis appeared to him and promised Thutmose that he would one day rule Egypt. Thutmose said that this dream happened when he was only one of many princes of royal family.
VK: Well, that doesn’t seem to be that remarkable a dream. Promising a prince that he would one day become a king, or in this case the Pharaoh, doesn’t seem like it would be so unusual that it would merit being inscribed on a stone column and preserved in a shrine.
RD: I agree. Just from the bare facts it doesn’t seem like a dream to a prince that he would become a king would be that remarkable. But in this case we have to remember that at the time he received the dream Thutmose was just one of many of the princes. In other words, it’s most likely that Thutmose at this point was not likely to become the pharaoh. The order of succession in Egypt was strictly determined by birth order in those days. So, if Thutmose had an older brother the older brother would have been in line to become pharaoh not Thutmose. But history tells us that Thutmose did become Pharaoh in 1421 after Amenhotep II who is regarded by many scholars as being the Pharaoh of the Exodus.
VK: I think I see what you are getting at. If Amenhotep was the Pharaoh ruling Egypt at the time of the Exodus his successor would have been whoever his eldest son was. But the last plague that was visited upon the Egyptians was the death of the firstborn of every house. The New International Version of Exodus, chapter 12, verse 29 says, “At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.” That means that the eldest son of Pharaoh – the one who would have been expected to become the Pharaoh – would have died. The death of the crown prince, the eldest son, would have meant that another son of Pharaoh would have taken his place. So, whichever son eventually took the place of the crown prince who died would have grown up not expecting to become Pharaoh. So, a dream in which a supposed god came and told him that he would eventually become pharaoh would have been a remarkable event – an event remarkable enough to be literally carved in stone.
RD: Exactly. Scholars are not united in how they date the ruling periods of various dynasties and pharaohs in Egypt. So, the dates and sequences we are discussing are supported by many scholars but not all. But the stela is real and the inscription is real. It is also possible that Thutmose was the crown prince all along and the dream was simply a reinforcement that he would live long enough to succeed his father. But as the well-known Biblical scholar Gleason Archer noted, “But since this would have been the normal sequence of events, hardly requiring any unusual favor from the gods, it is far more likely that Thutmose was not the crown prince at the time he had the dream.”
VK: At any rate the people and times involved give rise to the distinct possibility that this stone column provides additional evidence of the historical reliability of the book of Exodus. In that regard, it’s interesting to note that even the name Thutmose is somewhat helpful because it and the name “Moses” obviously have a common origin. And since that origin is indisputably Egyptian it lends credence to the Bible’s record that Moses was given his name by Pharaoh’s daughter when she took him out of the Nile River. It would make no sense that a group of Jewish writers writing hundreds of years after the Jews had occupied Palestine would have given their great lawgiver and deliverer such a distinctly Egyptian name.
RD: Exactly. There are other archeological finds that also provide external evidence that supports the reliability of Exodus and the other books of the Pentateuch such as the fact that the various plagues described in Exodus have a direct connection to the Egyptian pantheon of gods. When the One True God hit the Egyptians with plagues He wasn’t doing it just to make the Egyptians miserable He was doing it to demonstrate His superiority over the gods they worshipped. For instance, the plague against the Nile showed the God of Moses’ superiority over the Egyptian god Hepi. The plague of frogs was directed at the goddess Heket and the plague of darkness against the god Ra. A good bit of evidence is available through simple internet searches and we’ve put a couple of links in the notes that will accompany the podcast version of this episode.
VK: So, the point that we are getting to is that there is both good internal and external evidence that points to the authenticity of the books of Exodus, Deuteronomy, and the other books of the Pentateuch. The evidence shows that these books are historically reliable and if they are historically reliable about names, places, plants, trees, and animals it means they can be trusted when they report about things that we can’t verify simply by our own observations like Moses sighting of the burning bush. And in other series on Anchored by Truth we have discussed extensively the scientific evidence that supports the historicity of the most contest book of the Bible, Genesis. We would particularly point people to our Truth in Genesis series. And, again, all of our previous episodes of Anchored by Truth are available from our website. So, what final thoughts do you have as we close out this series.
RD: We’ve discussed a number of overarching themes during this series. God gave Moses, the ancient Hebrews, and us the Ten Commandments for our good. God doesn’t need them. We do. Just looking around us today we can see the need for human beings to be told that they must not lie, steal, commit adultery or sexual immorality, or kill innocent human beings. Those social pathologies, those sins are rampant in our world today. Imagine what they might be if there were no restraints on them at all.
VK: I imagine our world might look a lot like the world of Noah just before God sent the flood because “The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.” That’s Genesis, chapter 6, verse 5 from the New International Version.
RD: It might and that would be truly sad. So, from our own observations we can see the need for the last 5 of the Ten Commandments to restrain evil and sin. And we have seen that one big reason God gave us the Ten Commandments was to protect His dignity and the dignity of the only creature that bears His image, mankind.
VK: One thread that ties all of the commandments together is that are concerned with the dignity of God and the dignity of people because they are God’s image bearers. The last 5 of the commandments would not have been necessary if the fall had never occurred because their primary purpose is to restrain sin in the fallen creation. But even these commandments are bound together by dignity. The 6th commandment is concerned with the dignity of their lives, the 7th the dignity of marriage, and the 8th the dignity of work. The 9th commandment is concerned with the dignity of words, speech, and truth. And the 10th commandment is concerned with the dignity of desire – especially our desire for God. And one final point we should cover before we close for today is all of these observations point us back to reality of the creation record that is contained in Genesis.
RD: The commandments were given to us in a specific order. The first 3 commandments were concerned with the dignity of God’s nature and personhood. The 4th and 5th commandments were concerned with the manifestation of God’s dignity into the created order. The 4th commandment had to do with the period of God’s creative activity and the 5th commandment to honor fathers and mothers had to do with the product of God’s creative activity.
VK: But of course all of these observations are only applicable if the Ten Commandments are authentic pronouncements of an all-powerful, all-knowing God. And that means the books they come from must be reliable records – which, as we have discussed briefly today, they are.
RD: In a very real sense the continued, widespread presence of sin shows that the Ten Commandments were a very wise precaution God took to try to forestall the ultimate decline of His people. And the failure of all of us to honor the Ten Commandments points to our profound need for a Savior to rescue us from our own rebellion. But we will only be rescued if we trust in the Savior and we can only know about the Savior from His word – the Bible. One of the most disturbing reports I have heard recently is that a recent survey said that only 20% of the people in America consider the Bible to be the literal word of God. But 29% consider the Bible to be a collection of myths and fairy tales. That disturbing statistic tells us that there is a profound ignorance about the Bible in too many places and for this nation, or any nation, to have any hope we must address this situation.
VK: I think this points us back to where we started. There are at least 4 lines of evidence that support the validity and reliability of the Bible: remarkable unity, reliable history, fulfilled prophecy, and redeemed destinies. But none of the evidence will do anyone any good if we don’t know about it. You have often said that Christians must become people of fact in a world absorbed with feelings.
RD: Christians must indeed become people of facts in a world full of feelings. The world today is either distracted by its entertainment or immersed in oceans of angst and manufactured emotion. It fills our airways, internet channels, and surrounds us visually. Advertisers and fund seekers know that people will more often act on emotion than reason and fact. So, even though you hear the mantra, “you have faith but we have science” often, the truth is the exact opposite. Christians have a faith that is supported by logic, reason, and evidence including scientific evidence. But as you said, none of the evidence will do any good for those who ignore it or won’t absorb it. God is a God of facts. Jesus is our Savior because of the fact of the resurrection. Jesus proclaimed “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” He didn’t say He felt like He was. He said that He was. The facts and truth are on our side. Jesus has already won the victory but it’s up to us to proclaim that good news as widely as possible. The Ten Commandments contain abundant evidence that they are good for us but the reason they are good for us is because they came from an Almighty God who wants good for His people.
VK: Well, this sound like a good time to end for today and go to prayer. Since we are rapidly approaching Father’s Day, today let’s listen to a prayer for our fathers. Hopefully, you were blessed with having a Godly father that you can respect and admire readily. But even those who weren’t blessed with an earthy father who was the kind we all hope for, we all have a heavenly Father who never leaves us or forsakes us and who wants all of His children to know the joy and peace of His goodness.
---- PRAYER FOR FATHER’S DAY
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New American Standard Bible)
Deuteronomy, Chapter 1, verse 17, New American Standard Bible

Exodus evidence revisited (creation.com)
Ten Egyptian Plagues for Ten Egyptian Gods and Goddesses - Owlcation
10_Eqyptian_gods_10_Plagues.pdf (rice.edu)
History, prophecy, ancestry, unity, and relevance

The Bible says that Jabin, king of Hazor, was responsible for organizing this coalition, and then it adds, “Hazor formerly was the head of all those kingdoms” (Joshua 11:10, emphasis added).
Later, according to the book of Judges, when another Jabin (probably a royal title like ‘Pharaoh’) reigned in Hazor, he is described not merely as king of Hazor, but “king of Canaan who reigned at Hazor” (Judges 4:2, cf. 4:23–24, emphasis added). Again, the biblical testimony is that Hazor was in a strong position of authority in Canaan. These ‘Amarna Letters’ would span a 30-year period (or less) that falls within the early history of the biblical Judges, when Israel was established in the land yet still battling for control of much territory (Judges 1–2).7 Numerous Canaanite city rulers are mentioned in the Amarna Letters as “mayors”, but the only one to be called “king” is the ruler of Hazor. He refers to himself as king in Letter 227, and a rival ruler from Tyre describes him using that title as well in Letter 148.8 Israeli army general and archaeologist Yigael Yadin, who led several excavation seasons at Hazor from 1955–1969, wrote, “This indicates no doubt that the King of Hazor’s rule embraced more than the city itself.”9

History, prophecy, ancestry, unity, and relevance

Episode 217 – Interview with Candy Coates
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.
The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18, verse 20. New Living Translation

********
VK: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K in the studio and today we’re going to hear the story of someone whose life is a testimony to the power of the Bible and to the power the Bible brings to our lives. As Anchored by Truth listeners know we believe that there are four lines of evidence that demonstrate that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. First, the Bible is historically reliable. Second, the Bible displays a remarkable unity for a book that was composed by over 3 dozen human authors who wrote over a span of 1,500 years. Third, the Bible gives evidence of supernatural origin especially through a large body of fulfilled prophecy. And the 4th line of evidence is that the Bible has resulted in an untold number of lives that have been positively changed by its transcendent message.
So today we’re going to hear the story of one of those lives. In the studio today we have Candy McKinney Coates. Candy was a senior administrator for the State of Florida for 30 years, has helped her husband with his successful legal practice, and most importantly of all raised two children who have strong and solid Christian faiths of their own – which as everyone knows is becoming increasingly more challenging in a world and culture that rejects truth itself. So let’s welcome Candy Coates to Anchored by Truth. Candy would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth audience and maybe tell us a little about yourself?
Candy: Thanks for inviting me to join you on Anchored by Truth.
- Introductory comments - From recording on March 24th
VK: Candy, you came by your faith the old fashioned way. You grew up in the small town of Cross City, Florida and you were blessed enough that you were part of a family that had a strong history of faithfulness to Christ. Tell us about growing up in Cross City
Candy: Comments about growing up in Cross City - From recording on March 24th.
VK: In some of our earlier conversations you have told us that your father and mother made building a devotion to Christ was a disciplined process at your house. Your father and mother didn’t just talk about their faith in Jesus and in the Bible but they lived it out faith every day. What were your days at home like?
Candy: Comments about the daily routine - From recording on March 24th.
VK: You were fortunate enough to grow up in a family where faith and Christ were emphasized. But your father was not just a strong Christian. He was also a very successful businessman. How did his faith influence his business activities? (first doctor, dentist?
Candy: Comments about father – bank, movie theater, bringing first doctor and dentist to Dixie County.
VK: How did your parents help you develop an appreciation for the value of hard work and integrity?

Candy: Comments about helping put on “circus” and bank, working at movie theater, etc.
VK: How did your upbringing influence your love for the Bible?
Candy: Comments about developing an appreciation for the Bible.
VK: When you went away to college, did you continue the pattern of Bible study and devotion which you had learned at home?
Candy: Comments about role Bible played in life at college.
VK: Candy, when you began your working career how did you apply the lessons you learned from your father?
Candy: Comments about role upbringing, Bible, and faith played in career with state.
VK: Well, Candy, before we close out for today I think it’s important for the Anchored by Truth audience to know that you are going to help us do an Anchored by Truth series we are going to call “Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture.” And you are highly qualified to help us because you actually did that. Can you give our audience just a few tips about some of the most important points to raising Christian kids in a creepy culture?
Candy: Comments about raising Christian kids.
VK: Candy, do you have any final thoughts for the Anchored by Truth audience for today - perhaps thoughts about things for which you’re particularly grateful?
Candy: Final thoughts
VK: We’d really like to thank Candy Coates for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. I think we can all be inspired by the kind of faith that her family displayed in Cross City. Candy came to a saving knowledge of Christ Jesus by way of being raised in a strong Christian family. And while we don’t all start out the same way Candy did, all it takes to have a saving relationship with Jesus is to acknowledge our sin and acknowledge our need for a Savior. Candy’s life after her conversion has yielded a bountiful harvest for the Lord and continues to yield blessings to a great many even today. Candy’s story is just one more example of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer for first responders - the brave men and women in our communities who step up in dangerous situations to help keep us safe and healthy. We should all be grateful to have neighbors who are willing to put service to others above their concern for their own safety and well-being.
---- PRAYER FOR FIRST RESPONDERS.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Candy. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)

The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18, verse 20. New Living Translation

Episode 218 – Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture 1
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
My child, obey the teachings of your parents, and wear their teachings
as you would a pretty hat or a lovely necklace.
Proverbs, chapter 1, verses 8 and 9. Contemporary English Version

********
VK: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K in the studio and today we’re going to begin a new series on Anchored by Truth that we call “Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture.” Frankly, that’s job number 1 for every Christian parent today. Parents must make consistent, conscious, and disciplined choices to raise a Christian kid in that creepy culture and today we’re going to hear the story of someone who has done that. In the studio today we have Candy Coates. Candy worked for the State of Florida for 30 years and spent several years as a senior administrator. She also helped her husband build a very successful legal practice. Just about every family that has ever built a successful small business knows that the business success is a team effort. But, most importantly, Candy raised two children who have strong and solid Christian faiths of their own and are building careers and lives for themselves. Candy shared her own story with us on an earlier episode on Anchored by Truth but today we want to shift the focus to helping kids get a positive start on developing an enduring Christian faith. And we strongly believe that the foundation must be built early and purposefully. Candy, is there anything you’d like to say to the audience before we get started on how to raise Christian kids in a creepy culture? (2:45)
Candy: Thanks for inviting me to join you on Anchored by Truth.
- Introductory comments -
VK: So, Candy, what are some of the big ideas that you think that we should keep in mind as we discuss raising Christian kids in a creepy culture?
Candy: Principles – intentional, allowing kids to be kids (age appropriate), find or build a community of faith.
VK: Well, there’s a lot more intrusion by the world today – television time, internet time, video games and other distractions. (8:15)
VK: Are there any stories that you remember from when your kids were younger that stick in your mind as a time when you were so glad you were focused on helping your children learn about their faith? (8:50)
Candy: Train ride story.
VK: Laughs …
VK: You were telling us a story about your mother and father and they had a new born? (10:15)
Candy: Story about uncle.
VK: In some of our earlier conversations you have told us that your father and mother made building a devotion to Christ was a disciplined process at your house. Your father and mother didn’t just talk about their faith in Jesus and in the Bible but they lived it out faith every day. How did your home life influence how you decided to raise your own kids? (11:00)
Candy: Comments about her family’s faith and its influence on her life
VK: I think it’s fair to say you felt led to lead your children to Jesus in a positive way as soon as they were old enough to understand some basic ideas. What ideas did you think it was important for them to understand and how did you go about helping them learn?
Candy: Comments about building an anchor for their kids.
VK: Your son and daughter are about 4 years apart in age. Did you do anything differently when your daughter came along?
Candy: Son was happy about having a younger sister.
VK: I understand that you decided to teach your kids to read very early in their lives. In fact, I believe they could already read before they went to first grade. Why did you think it was so important to give them an early start and how did you go about helping them learn to read?
Candy: Comments about teaching the kids to read.
VK: Well, I’m sure parenting made you see scripture in a new light?
VK: What devotional practices did you introduce to your kids even before they started school?
Candy: Comments about early efforts to introduce Jesus to children.
VK: What did you do with your kids to introduce them to a positive church life?
Candy: Comments about getting kids started on church life.
VK: Candy, I think that parents always wonder whether their efforts with their kids are making a difference. But you had an experience with your daughter early on that helped you see that the effort you and Richard were making to develop a Christian character in your child was making a difference. Please tell our audience about what happened in the Volvo.
Candy: Volvo story.
VK: Well, Candy, before we close out for today I think it’s important for the Anchored by Truth audience to know that you are going to help us continue to build this Anchored by Truth series that we are calling “Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture.” And you are highly qualified to help us because you actually did that. Can you give our audience a few big observations about raising Christian kids in a creepy culture?
Candy: Comments about big ideas about raising Christian kids.
(Move up before final thoughts)
VK: Candy, do you remember the first encounter that your son and daughter had with Jesus? (21:00)
Candy: Baby Jesus story.
VK: And your daughter – did she have a first moment with Jesus?
VK: Candy, do you have any final thoughts for the Anchored by Truth audience for today - perhaps thoughts about things for which you’re particularly grateful?
Candy: Final thoughts (Baby Jesus
VK: We’d really like to thank Candy Coates for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. I think we can all be inspired by the kind of faith that Candy and Richard have. Candy came to a saving knowledge of Christ Jesus by way of being raised in a strong Christian family and she was determined to pass that faith along. Candy’s story is just one more example of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Candy’s life has been immersed in the Bible and the Bible continues to be the center of Candy’s life and faith. Today since we are closing in on the 4th of July which is celebrated as Independence Day in America let’s listen to a prayer of celebration for the gift of freedom that comes from God but has been protected by those who came before us.
---- PRAYER FOR 4TH OF JULY
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Candy. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)

Proverbs, chapter 1, verses 8 and 9. Contemporary English Version

Episode 219 – Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs, chapter 22, verse 6. English Standard Version

********
VK: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K in the studio and today we’re going to continue a series we began last time on Anchored by Truth. We’re calling this series “Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture.” It’s sad that we have to think in terms like this but the simple fact is that we do. Today our culture isn’t just creepy in a lot of ways but it can be downright hostile to helping our children develop their own relationship with Jesus. Parents must make consistent, conscious, and disciplined choices to raise a Christian kid in that creepy culture. And today we’re really happy to have someone in the studio who has done that. In the studio again with us today we have Candy Coates. Candy was a working mom and wife of a successful lawyer and businessman. But, most importantly of all, Candy raised two children who have strong and solid Christian faiths of their own and are building careers and lives for themselves. Candy joined us for an earlier episode on Anchored by Truth where we heard the story of how her upbringing in a small Florida community helped shape her own sturdy faith. We would encourage all Anchored by Truth listeners who missed that episode to go to our website (crystalseabooks.com) and catch her inspiring story. I think Candy’s story emphasizes one simple fact in a very profound way. Candy’s grandparents had a strong Christian faith. Her grandparents imparted that faith to her parents and her parents did that for her. And now Candy has passed that legacy along and we have no doubt that that tree of life that has been so faithfully cultivated will continue to bear fruit in future generations.
And In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we talked with Candy about some ideas that Candy used with her children to help them develop a faith of their own. Candy even did many things with her children before they entered school to begin the building the foundations for their faith. So, today we are going to move forward a few years and talk with her about some of the things that she did with her children when they were in school. Candy, can you give us a general description of how you approached the school years with your kids to both ensure they had a positive school experience but also to ensure their faith kept developing?
Candy: First answer in “bulk” materials.
3:00 VK: Well, I think you’ve made some very important points. First, you’ve stressed the need for parents to be involved with their child’s schools. Especially today, parents can’t just trust that their child’s schools is teaching material that the parent would agree with. Parents have to be aware of the content of the material that is being presented in their kids’ classrooms. Parents also have to be aware of who is teaching their kids and they even need to know who is in school with their kids. As you mentioned in our last episode in this “Raising Christian kids in a creepy culture series” raising a Christian child requires purpose and intention and it requires, as you put it, parents must “show up for work every day because their kids are counting on them.” And it’s not always easy. I liked what you said that “some days it’s going to suck the fillings out of your head.” But the goal of having a child whose faith will withstand the culture’s onslaught is worth it isn’t it? I mean that was one of the real blessings that you experienced growing up. Your parents were very faithful soldiers in God’s army weren’t they?
Candy: answer about parents
5:15 VK: Well, I think that’s a great illustration that your father was very focused on not only the faith of his family but the faith of his community. Your father wanted his community to have a movie theater to provide entertainment for families but he wasn’t willing to allow inappropriate content to come into the community – at least insofar as he could prevent it. Are there other examples you recall about how your father’s faith was reflected in his life?
Candy: Comments about family night at the movie theater.
VK: So, it sounds like even then your father realized how much the entertainment industry could influence people, especially children. And things have changed drastically since your family operated that movie theater in Cross City, haven’t they. We certainly have far more entertainment options than they did in those days. There are a lot more ways that entertainment enters our kids’ lives and comes into our homes. But, sadly, it’s pretty obvious that the moral quality of most of the so-called entertainment has declined significantly. I’ve heard RD who founded Crystal Sea Books say that’s the biggest reason he started a publishing business. The way RD has put it is that “we’re in a race to the bottom and we’re winning.” What do you think your father would say about today’s entertainment if he were in the room with us?
Candy: Comments about father being dismayed.
7:20 VK: How do you think that parents today should be involved with their kids choices of entertainment? It sounds like you agree with your father that kids need to have a parent or other responsible adult involved in helping make decisions about what they consume. This runs so counter to what our culture pushes in its narratives. Culture wants us to believe that kids are just little adults who may have different tastes but they are capable of making acceptable choices. But that is FAR from the truth isn’t it?
Candy: Comments about being parent involved with entertainment choices pushed by culture.
10:15 VK: Candy you were a working mom which meant that you had to balance your work responsibilities with your concern for your kids. It’s obvious that you weren’t just focused on your kids’ health and safety – though that was certainly your top priority – it’s obvious you wanted your kids to grow up with a healthy set of values and with their own Christian faith. So, how did you go about balancing your job responsibilities with your desire to be a faithful Christian mom and wife?
Candy: Comments about work and home responsibilities.
VK: As we seek to raise Christian kids it’s important to be attentive to the child’s developing faith, isn’t it. I think there came in your daughter’s life when she decided it was time for her make a change in her school. Can you tell us about that?
Candy: Comments about daughter going to new school.
12:15 VK: I think one of the big points today in order to raise Christian children is that you must be very conscious of the environment that will surround your children. Right? Culture has shifted a lot in the past few decades and now there are many environments that Christian parents just don’t want their kids to be in. But these unsuitable environments can still be enticing and, frankly, might be the most convenient choice in terms of time or effort. How important is it for parents to be very conscious about the environment their kids are in?
Candy: Comments about environment kids are in.
VK: So, was there something that jumped out at the Christian school that was different from that in the public schools where your son was going at that time?
Candy: Comments about Christian school.
VK: How about discipline? Was there anything that was noticeably different about the discipline in the Christian school that was different from that in the public school?
Candy: Comments about discipline.
VK: Candy, you have said that it’s also very important to know the other kids that your children are spending time with. Just about every parent knows that once kids go off to school their classmates and other kids they meet are going to start being bigger and bigger influences in their lives. There comes a point in many children’s lives where their friends are more important to kids than their families. Some of that is natural but we certainly don’t want it to become detrimental to our kid’s faith or futures. So, you always made it a point to know what your kids were doing didn’t you?
Candy: Comments about tennis team and FCA.
VK: And as a part of knowing what’s going on in your kid’s life and environment that means you have to know their teachers and school very well, doesn’t it?
Candy: Comments about knowing teachers and families of kid’s classmates.
18:00 VK: But of course, no matter how careful you are or try to be unexpected things are going to crop up won’t they. I mean it’s impossible to plan for everything that is going to go on when raising a child. It’s impossible to plan for everything that goes on in life. So, do you have any thoughts about how to handle challenges crop up that you never expect?
Candy: Comments about preparing for challenges.
18:00 VK: And when we go through challenges it can really help to remember that no matter what we are going through that God is sovereign. No matter what is happening to us at the time we know that God is still in charge – and that is true for the lives of our children as well as in our own lives. And we need to come to the point where we not only know that but where we start to take comfort from that knowledge. After all, it’s not much comfort to know that God is in charge if we don’t think that God cares for us – which, of course, He does. But sometimes it’s hard to remember that especially when the big challenges come our way. But is in charge and He knows what’s best even when we don’t understand that at the time. Right?
Candy: Comments about God’s sovereignty – stop, drop, and pray. 22:30
VK: Stop, drop, and pray. I really like that. That’s one of the reasons Crystal Sea has published 2 books on prayer because we believe prayer should be the first response and not the last resort. Well, we’d really like to thank Candy Coates for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. I think we can all see that one big reason Candy’s children know Jesus and have a genuine love for him is because she has that love and knowledge. Candy’s story is a clear illustration of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Today for our closing prayer how about if we pray that everyone would come to a saving knowledge of the God of the Bible who is our one sure anchor to truth.
---- PRAYER FOR RESTORATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD (MARCUS)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Candy. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the English Standard Version)

Proverbs, chapter 22, verse 6. English Standard Version

Episode 220 – Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture 3
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs, chapter 22, verse 6. English Standard Version

********
VK: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. Today we’re going to continue our series that we are calling this series “Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture.” Our society has changed dramatically in the last few decades but unfortunately these changes have not made for a better environment for passing along our Christian faith. Unlike in previous times very few, if any, of our cultural institutions reinforce a Christian ethic or set of values. Some are downright hostile to the Christian faith and will either passively or actively attempt to impede parents from helping kids form a solid, Christian worldview. But today we’re really happy to have someone in the studio who has done exactly that. In the studio again with us today we have Candy Coates. Candy was a working mom and wife of a successful lawyer and businessman. Most importantly of all, though, Candy and her husband raised two children who do possess strong Christian faiths of their own. This is not a small accomplishment. Some surveys reveal that as many as 75% of children who are raised in a Christian home will abandon or lose their faith when they leave home. This is a tragedy, but it is a preventable one. On an earlier episode of Anchored by Truth Candy told us her own story of how her parents helped her develop her faith. But as Candy has noted her upbringing in the small Florida community of Cross City helped shape that faith because it was so prevalent in the community at that time. We would encourage all Anchored by Truth listeners who missed that episode to go to our website (crystalseabooks.com) and catch her inspiring story. I think Candy’s story emphasizes one simple fact in a very profound way. Candy’s grandparents had a strong Christian faith. Her grandparents imparted that faith to her parents and her parents did that for her. And now Candy has passed that legacy along.
In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we talked with Candy about some ideas that Candy used with her children to pass that legacy. Candy did a lot with her children before they entered school to begin the building the foundations for their faith. And she continued her patient, consistent approach throughout their school years and even beyond. And Candy you have a good story that illustrates some of the challenges your daughter has faced after college don’t you?
25:00 Candy: Story about conversation at restaurant.
VK: Well, I think that story makes some very important points. First, it’s truly wonderful that you have the kind of relationship with your grown daughter that permits you to have that kind of a conversation with her. Sadly, I can imagine that there are many people who hear that story and can only wonder or envy your bond with your daughter. So much happens to kids in college these days that a lot of parents find out that the person who graduated from the school is not the person that entered freshman year. And tragically one of the things that often happens is the college graduate loses that close connection with their family and parents. You didn’t and that’s such a blessing. Second, you are still helping your daughter prepare for success in life because just because your child has graduated from college doesn’t mean that they are prepared to engage all the challenges that are headed their way. And your daughter still recognizes that she can benefit from your wisdom and life experience and how wonderful is that? And third, you are continuing to mentor your kids in their faith and helping them understand that none of us ever outgrow our reliance on Jesus, the Bible, and the transcendent truth that the Bible communicates. In fact, as we grow throughout life we will grow in our dependence on Jesus and the Bible because the wiser we are the more we realize that these are the only sure guides that will not fail us in a fallen creation. And I love that expression that you used: “Every barrel must rest on its own bottom.” You have another expression that I really like: “You have to keep your reflectors clean.”
Candy: answer about reflectors
VK: So, it’s a kind of shorthand that you used with your kid.
Candy: answer
VK: And that’s a great way of thinking about our relationship with Jesus. We not only want to have a close relationship with Jesus but we want to show others the benefit of that kind of relationship. But we can only do that as we reflect Him and His beauty and holiness. We do want Jesus to shine through us because it is Jesus who is the Savior. Those of us who know Jesus have hope but it’s only because of the hope that He provides. As the Apostle Peter said in 1 Peter, chapter 3, verse 15, , we have a hope that “lies with us” and we have to be prepared to give others a reason we have that hope. Because it does take work for us to be prepared to give those reasons doesn’t it?
Candy: Comments about burlap bag.
VK: Well, I think that is absolutely right. Anything that we do for Jesus we do through His power. Since we know that He created the heavens and the earth we know that He does have the power to accomplish anything that He wants. And He will use that power to help us if our desire is genuinely to serve Him. I think that that is something that is often lost in this day and age where there are a lot of distorted ideas about Christianity that tend to circulate. Many people seem to think that God’s chief purpose is to glorify them rather the reverse. Our purpose is to glorify God and why shouldn’t it be? God is after all perfect in all His ways and He deserves to be glorified. But a lot of people sometimes seem to get that backward. Some people seem to think that they can direct God rather than recognizing that God is the One who does the directing.
Candy: Comments about hoop for God to jump through.
31:15 VK: I think that those are some very wise observations. They are obviously pertinent for believers of all ages. But believers who have kids just entering college can be faced with some special challenges can’t they? I believe your son Mason went to the University of Alabama. How did you and your husband handle getting Mason get set up for a successful college career at Alabama?
Candy: Comments about Mason getting started at Alabama.
VK: And what kind of guidance did you give Mason about holding on to his Christian faith? How did you help him get prepared for the challenges he would face in college about his faith?
Candy: Comments about helping Mason with getting prepared for preserving faith at college.
VK: What kind of difference do you think Mason’s faith made in his college experience?
Candy: Comments about Mason’s faith at college.
VK: What kind of religious life did Mason have in college? Did he routinely go to church and keep up the kind of devotional habits that you had instilled in him before he left home?
Candy: Comments about Mason’s faith experience in college.
VK: How about your daughter’s church experience in college? Did she keep up regular attendance?
Candy: Comments about Caitlin’s church attendance at college.
VK: So, Kaitlin had a group of Christian friends in college. How did that benefit her?
Candy: Comments about Caitlin.
VK: And you think that was important to Caitlin?
Candy: Comments about Caitlin.
VK: So, it sounds like Caitlin’s college experience with her faith actually helped her lay the groundwork for life long friendships?
Candy: Comments about friends.
VK: Did Mason or Caitlin ever say anything during their college years that it made it sound like they were very grateful that they had such a strong grounding in their faith before they left home?
Candy: Comments about kids in college and their faith.
40:00 VK: Are there any stories that you remember about your kids that reflect how their faith played a role in their lives during college?
Candy: Comments about praying for others and having faith or not.
VK: Did either Mason or Caitlin run into any determined opposition to their faith? Did they run into any professors or their peers who openly denigrated or mocked them for being Christians?
Candy: Comments about voids of faith
VK: That is something we don’t think about a lot of time. Sometimes our kids will run into open or vocal opposition to their faith but more often than not what they will experience is friends or peers who just don’t have any faith or who just never think about faith. That can also be very detrimental for kids who haven’t been properly prepared. Christians know that God made everything and that He isn’t going away just because some people don’t believe in Him. We also know that we have fallen far short of the standards that God has established for us in our lives and worship of Him. Well, today a lot of people don’t know what we know and so they just ignore one of the most fundamental attributes of reality – God’s existence and the need to have a relationship with him. And, of course, that kind of apathy can be very tempting when kids are in college with too much to do and too much to think about anyway. What kind of contact did you have with Mason or Caitlin to try to continue to reinforce their contact with their faith?
Candy: Comments about mail campaign
VK: So, you did not know what your child needed at that moment but the Lord knew. The Lord always knows what each of us needs. And the Lord can give us nudges when He wants us to reach out. Apparently, He did that for you and it’s probably because you were good at responding to the nudges. The bottom line is that the Lord will never let us down.
Candy: Comments about the Lord always being there
46:00 VK: So, did your own faith change while your kids were at college? Did you experience your faith in a new way as they were now out of the home and beginning their lives on their own so-to-speak?
Candy: Comments about you having knowledge your kids don’t
VK: Knee time. I really like that. Crystal Sea has published 2 books on prayer because we believe “knee time” should be the first response and not the last resort. Well, we’d really like to thank Candy Coates for being our guest on Anchored by Truth for this series. We’re going to wrap up the series in our next episode by looking at one way Crystal Sea wants to help parents help their children build an enduring faith – through the humor projects that we produce called Life Lessons with a Laugh. Candy has listened to just about all of them and agrees with us that humor can be a great way to bring down defenses and prepare parents and kids share scriptural truths in an easy and natural way. Candy’s story is a clear illustration of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Today for our closing prayer how about if we join in a prayer of adoration for the one who brings the illumination of scripture into our lives – the Holy Spirit?
---- PRAYER FOR ADORATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (MARCUS)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Candy. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the English Standard Version)

Proverbs, chapter 22, verse 6. English Standard Version

Episode 221 – Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture 4
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs, chapter 22, verse 6. English Standard Version

********
VK: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K and today we’re going to conclude a series we began last time on Anchored by Truth. We called this series “Raising Christian Kids in a Creepy Culture.” We called it that because today our culture can be downright hostile to people, especially children, develop a relationship with Jesus. Christian parents must make consistent, conscious, and disciplined choices to raise a Christian kid in this creepy culture. So, to help us finish off this series we’re happy to have someone in the studio who has done that – who has raised two kids who are now out in the world but still standing firmly with Jesus. As she has been throughout this series Candy Coates is with us in the studio again. Candy was a working mom with a very accomplished professional career and she is also the wife of a successful lawyer and businessman. Candy shared her own story of how her upbringing in a small Florida community helped shape her own steadfast faith in an earlier episode of Anchored by Truth. We would encourage all Anchored by Truth listeners who missed that episode to go to our website (crystalseabooks.com) and catch her inspiring story. I think Candy’s story makes a very important point in a very powerful way. Candy’s grandparents had a strong Christian faith. Her grandparents imparted that faith to her parents and her parents did that for her. And now Candy has passed that legacy along. We have no doubt that that tree of life that has been so faithfully cultivated will continue to bear fruit in future generations. Candy’s story emphasizes the fact that it is possible for faith to be passed from generation to generation. That is both sobering and encouraging for anyone with kids, grandkids, or great-grandkids. We can, and should, leave a legacy of faith until the Lord returns for us all.
And today we want to discuss one way for parents and grandparent to ensure that they have ample opportunities to pass their faith along – and that is by using Crystal Sea’s humor series that we call Life Lessons with a Laugh. It’s not very common in our day and age for people to be able to use humor to begin discussions with their kids about the Bible or faith in Jesus but Crystal Sea’s Life Lessons do just that. We introduced our Life Lessons to Candy when she first came into the studio to share her testimony and I think it’s safe to say she loved them right from the beginning. Candy, when we first gave you copies of our David and Goliath and Noah Life Lessons you pretty much enjoyed them right away, didn’t you.
Candy: I did indeed. And I’d also like to tell you how pleased I am to be back with Anchored by Truth as we close out this series. It’s been an amazing and important series because every Christian parent today needs help with the goal of helping their child build their faith in the Savior. And as you said I did enjoy the Life Lessons right from the start. As you soon as you played the first sample for me while we were touring in the studio I was engaged. That’s why I asked you to provide me with some samples that I could play in the car on the way home.
VK: And just to clarify for the broadcast and podcast audience we produce episodes of Anchored by Truth several weeks before they are aired on radio or made available on the internet. So, when Candy first came into the studio none of the Life Lessons were available from our website. But several of our Life Lesson series are now available at crystalseabooks.com. And we will continue to release more of them there as time goes by. So, it makes sense to visit our website frequently to get our latest releases. Anyway, Candy was so engaged by the samples that we played in the studio that she asked to take a couple of series home with her. Of course, we were only too happy to do that. And the next time she came back she asked for more. Candy, why was that?
Candy: Well, the simple answer is that they are funny. They are really funny and enjoyable in the best kind of way. The humor is clean and good-natured unlike so much of what is classified as comedy these days. There wasn’t anything in the Life Lessons that I would have minded playing for my kids. And I think that was kind of your point wasn’t it. You wanted parents or even youth group pastors or ministers to have a way to introduce spiritual topics to kids in a way that everyone would enjoy.
VK: Well, yes that was our goal. We want people to return to being able to share their Christian faith, not only in their family, but also with friends and neighbors just as they would share a good backyard bar-b-que or a play date in the park. That seems to be so difficult these days for a lot of people. So, we wanted to make talking about faith, Jesus, and the Bible easier. And people always enjoy a good laugh.
Candy: And I think you’ve achieved that. But one of the things I really appreciate about the Life Lessons is that each one helps kids, and grownups for that matter, think about the Bible and the Savior. And they do it in a way that makes it easy for kids to remember what they’ve heard. I really love the little songs that you’ve included in many of them. Kids are really drawn to music and rhymes. So, the ones you’ve used are spot on.
VK: So, let’s play a sample of one of the song parodies that we have included in a Life Lesson. This example is from our Life Lesson series on David and Goliath. This lesson notes that the reason David had gone down to the valley of Elah and wound up in the confrontation with Goliath was because David’s father had sent some bread and cheese to David’s brothers and their comrades. Well, of course when you put bread and cheese together you’re pretty close to a pizza.
- David No. 3: That’s amore’ parody -
Candy: I love that example. The lyrics are clever but most importantly they make a point that kids need to know – that God loves us and that God wants us to know that He loves us. The parody you have used makes that clear but a mom or dad who is listening to that Life Lesson with their kids can point that out and reinforce it. And while you didn’t play the whole lesson - because we just don’t have the time - the lesson goes on the point out the importance of fellowship by using the example of David’s friendship with Jonathan, one of King Saul’s sons. We would never think of it today but David’s friendship with Jonathan was one the big reasons he eventually became the king himself. And how neat it would be for a family to listen to that Life Lesson and then have pizza with some friends. That’s one of the things I think the Life Lessons do so well. They point out that we can use pizza and friendships to serve the Savior.
VK: And the song parodies that are included in some of the Life Lessons are one way we try to help parents and kids absorb and retain information. Too many people today forget that one of the reasons we can be so confident that the Bible’s history is accurate is because the Bible relates real names, places, and events. We can locate the valley of Elah on a map because it is a real place. And we know that many of the names that are contained in the Bible have been confirmed by archeological finds. And certainly people can understand that bread and cheese are real foods that have been eaten for thousands of years. So when the Bible reports that those were all part of David’s encounter with Goliath we can have confidence in the story’s accuracy.
Candy: And helping people absorb important Bible details is something I think the Life Lessons do very well. I enjoyed the information that you gave in a couple of the lessons from the Noah series about how big the ark actually was and especially that the dimensions the Bible gives us for the ark made it stable on the ocean.
VK: Let’s play a sample from that section of the Noah series. As the Life Lesson points out God gave Noah some very important information before Noah started building the ark. God answered a very important question for Noah – “How deep is your ark?”
- Noah No. 4: starting with “I mean the ark had to be truly remarkable” -

Candy: That section is great. You have another one of the cute song parodies. You have some funny lines like “a floppy rudder endangers a distressed dingy.” And you have some good information for parents and kids. The dimensions the Bible gives us for the ark are the same dimensions that are used to build ocean liners today. That shows that the information about the ark’s size makes sense from a real world perspective. In another one of the Noah Life Lessons that I listened to you talked about how large the ark was. The ark would have been big enough to hold up to 2,000 railroad cars of cargo – plenty of room for a lot of animals and the food to feed them since the vast majority of the animals on board were actually about chicken or rabbit size. Parents or youth group leaders can – at least, they should be able to – use any of those points to start a discussion about something important with their child or group.
VK: We sometimes refer to audio products like the Life Lessons as “discussion starters.” A parent, grandparent, youth group pastor, or homeschool group leader can play a Life Lesson to get a discussion going. The Life Lessons only last about 6 to 8 minutes so in a group setting that is planned for an hour there is plenty of time after the Life Lesson ends for further discussion. Even in a half-hour time slot, there’s time for a Life Lesson followed by the parent or leader helping amplify the points raised.
Candy: And one of the things I like about the Life Lessons is that you have covered a wide variety of Biblical topics. You have Life Lesson series on many of the famous Bible stories like David and Goliath, the Flood of Noah, and Daniel and the lion’s den. But you also have series on Bible topics like creation, angels, the Ten Commandments, and prophets.
VK: We wanted to have enough different Life Lesson series so that a homeschooler, youth group leader, or parent who is teaching their child the Bible would have plenty of variety. And we wanted to cover important topics like the miracles that Jesus performed. Let’s listen to a sample from Life Lesson series on the miracles of Jesus.
- Miracles No. 3: starting opening sections -

Candy: See I love that section. There’s a strong visual about a bunch of construction workers building something. That will get kids – well, and adults too – attention about what is going on. And I like the fact that the AI is quoting scripture and that you provide the scripture reference. And I like the fact that later on in that lesson in a part we didn’t hear today that the kids learn about why that episode points to the fact that Jesus was divine as well as human. Even kids who have never read the Bible will hear the Bible and then hear a short explanation about why that part of the Bible is important to a basic Christian truth: that Jesus was fully divine as well as fully human. There’s a lot of teaching going on in that Life Lesson but it’s introduced in a humorous fashion.
VK: As one of our recent visitors to Crystal Sea just said when he was listening to a sample Life Lesson humor gets people to lower their defenses. People need to know that Jesus can be their Savior.
Candy: Amen to that.
VK: But Jesus cannot be anyone’s Savior unless He is able to satisfy the demands of God’s perfectly holy justice. When we sin we sin against an infinite God. And a finite man cannot pay a debt to an infinite God. But Jesus can pay our sin debt because Jesus is both fully divine as well as being fully human. Theologians say that Jesus is one Person with two natures and there are a lot of scripture verses that demonstrate that. All that is great for a Sunday morning sermon or even an entire course in a seminary. But a lot of people, especially kids are not in church these days and they certainly are not going to seminary. But we can introduce even deep Christian topics in a simple and funny way and then see where the discussion goes.
Candy: And one of the things that kind of a Life Lesson might do is stimulate the adults to go and look up the scripture for themselves. Too many adults these days can’t help kids develop their Christian faith because they have a weak faith themselves. So, even though these Life Lessons are great for kids, frankly there are a lot of adults who need them as well. And I know that I have listened to just about all of the Life Lessons that you have created and I can testify that they are funny. There are recurring jokes like RD getting Jerry’s name wrong all the time, but there is also a lot of variety. The visuals are funny and the sound effects are hilarious. But most importantly, the Life Lessons teach kids about Jesus.
VK: That is always the most important thing, isn’t it? Kids need to know about Jesus, especially in this day and time. Many people today, even Christians have been hesitant about sharing their faith. But as Romans, chapter 10, verse 14 says, “how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them.” Those of us who know about Jesus have a responsibility to tell others about him. But these days that can be hard for some people to do.
Candy: But that’s the beauty of the Life Lessons. They can make it much easier for people to tell others about the Savior even in those situations like a church youth group where you would think everyone would already know about Him. Well, they may know about Him but that’s not the question. Do you know what I mean? The question is not whether they know about Jesus but whether they know Jesus as their Savior. A lot of people might not know that you can use humor to help people know Jesus as their Savior but the Life Lessons with a Laugh prove that you can. You have a couple of songs in the Life Lessons that really demonstrate that.
VK: And here is a short rhythmical piece from our Names of Jesus Life Lesson series that is a good illustration of that.

- Names of Jesus No. 5: Jesus name rap -

Candy: And I really like the parody that you did that you call “Danger Man.”
VK: Before we close for today, let’s listen to that.
Candy: I love that because people who don’t know Jesus are in danger – eternal danger. And none of us know how much longer that we have available to make a decision for Jesus to become our Savior. The Life Lessons are a great way to make sure that everybody, especially children, are introduced to the Bible and to the Savior. As you said, humor can get people to lower their defenses and a lot of people today are defensive when it comes to talking about Jesus. I think you guys have done a great job of helping people overcome any hesitation they might have about starting conversations with their kids or friends.
VK: It’s clear from these last few episodes that Candy never had any hesitation about ensuring that her children knew about Jesus. And because of that her kids emerged from their school years, including college, with their faith intact. That’s a real compliment to her and her husband and to their commitment to truth. Well, we’d really like to thank Candy Coates for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. I think we can all see that one big reason Candy’s children know Jesus and have a genuine love for him is because she has that love and knowledge. Candy’s story is a clear illustration of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Today for our closing prayer, how about if we listen to a prayer for our young children? We should always be in prayer for our children but we must also be willing to be doers of the Word not just hearers. Prayer and actively instructing children about Jesus are concrete steps that put our faith into action.
---- PRAYER FOR YOUNG CHILDREN
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Candy. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the English Standard Version)

Proverbs, chapter 22, verse 6. English Standard Version

ADDITIONAL STORIES
1. I think there are 3 big principles to keep in mind if you want to raise Christian kids in a creepy culture. (Get 3 or 4 different tracks of this discussion)
a. Your actions must be intentional, purposeful, and consistent
b. You must protect your children and allow them to behave in a manner consistent with their age; let kids be kids in an appropriate way; create a safe way for them to be kids
c. You must either find a community that will be supportive of your desire for your kids to grow up as strong Christians or build one. Cross City was the kind of community you want for your kids but if your current community does not offer what you need, you must find it. Might be at church, might be at a Christian school or homeschool group, might be a ministry offshoot, might be a neighborhood.
2. God can touch other people’s lives through yours in amazing ways. Sometimes you can inspire and help people find or regain their faith when you aren’t even aware that you are doing it. For instance, one of the great times we had when our children were little was our trip out west. Caitlin was 4 and Mason was 6 and we …
3. One of the keys to raising kids who mature and develop properly is to be involved with their teachers and schools. Sometimes you may be blessed to have a great teacher like we were with one of Mason’s social studies teachers. We went to see him one day because …
4. When you’re trying to be faithful, God will sometimes confirm that you are doing something right when you least expect it. For instance, when Caitlin was in (grade or middle) school, I had to have some serious surgery. So, I hired a high school friend to …
5. Now, I’m not saying that raising Christian kids who maintain their faith is easy. It can such the fillings out of your head sometimes, but you have to do it. There is no alternative. But it can be challenging. A lot of the time you may be the only parent or one of a few that is truly shouldering the burden. At (Mason or Caitlin)’s school they used to put on a teacher appreciation breakfast …
6. To raise a Christian kid you also have to be prepared to listen to your child carefully. For instance when Caitlin was in the 4th grade one day she told me that she wanted to go to Holy Comforter School. ….
7. To raise Christian children you must be very conscious of the environment that will surround your children. Our oldest Mason went to public schools until he went to college. But the public schools were changing as he was going through them. By the time Caitlin was going through them … (Holy Comforter, Maclay)
8. We always made it a practice to not only know Mason and Caitlin’s schools and teachers but also to know their friends. And we would go out of our way to meet the parents of their friends. This was important …
9. You are going to have challenges crop up that you never expect. For instance, Caitlin had been a model student when she was in elementary and middle school, but when she got to high school one day she came to me and said …
10. As Christians we know that God is sovereign and that He knows what’s best even when we don’t understand that at the time. A good example is when Caitlin was getting ready to graduate from the University of Alabama and she thought she had completed all of her requirements. She had worked with her counselor … but (hammer it with prayer; stone; 311)

Episode 222 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 1 – The Stakes of Sin
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The wages of sin is death …
Romans, Chapter 6, verse 23, New King James Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re very happy to be with you again. And we pray that you are having a year filled with joy and blessings, especially the joy of having a closer fellowship with our Lord Christ Jesus. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to start another new series. We are calling this series “The Seriousness of Sin.” And this is going to be one of the most important series that we have ever done because, frankly, the one of the biggest challenges being brought against the Christian faith today is the attempt to eradicate sin. In recent decades unbelievers and even some purported believers have begun trying to pretend that there is no such thing as sin. Now, of course, anyone who spends just a moment will quickly realize how silly it is to pretend that sin doesn’t exist but that has not stopped people from trying. So, we are going to spend several episodes of Anchored by Truth reaffirming that not only does the Bible firmly teach about the reality of sin, but also that our ordinary life experiences ratify that sin is a continuing plague and problem. Today in the studio as we begin this series we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why do you think we need to spend so much time talking about sin?
RD: Well, as you just mentioned there are many people today who vehemently disagree that sin even exists. And I think that is true for several reasons. First, our broader culture wants to do away with the idea of sin because the concept of sin always entails, and affirms, the existence of God. Without God sin is a meaningless concept. Sin is rebellion against God. If God didn’t exist then there would be no One to rebel against. Do away with God and you do away with the idea of sin.
VK: And people have been trying to do away with the knowledge that God exists ever since Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden. Three thousand years ago King David wrote in Psalm 14, verse 1 that, “The [spiritually ignorant] fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” That’s from the Amplified Bible. For thousands of years people have been trying to do away with God. It just doesn’t work. And it will never work because the Christian faith is true. The Christian faith is the only way to frame a consistently coherent world view. As Jesus promised in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 16, verse 18, the Christian faith will survive all the challenges brought against it. And it will survive those of today. Why? Because not only is the Christian faith true but also because God will always help His people as they carry that truth in an unbelieving world.
RD: Right. So, people today, as they have been doing for thousands of years would like to do away with the idea of sin because the existence of sin points directly to the existence of God. But ever further, the idea of sin points to the existence of standards by which we will all be measured and commands which we are all expected to obey. And it goes without saying that modern man, especially in the west, finds the idea of obligatory standards and commands one of the most objectionable ideas possible.
VK: And in that sense we have never really moved past what happened in the Garden of Eden that resulted in Adam and Eve’s expulsion. In the garden Satan tempted Eve to think that if she ignored God’s command not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that she would become like God. Genesis, chapter 3, verses 4 through 6 report that Satan told Eve, “You won’t die! … God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God …” and “the woman was convinced.” Being like God meant that Eve would no longer be subject to God’s demands. She found the idea appealing enough that she ate from the forbidden tree and people have been following suit ever since.
RD: Sadly, yes. People object to the idea of sin because sin points not only to the existence of God but also to the existence of God’s commands and standards. And a third concept that is inextricable woven into the concept of sin is that of failure – and not just failure but willful failure, willful disobedience. And people today in our participation-trophy, no-assigned-grades culture hate the idea that there might be Somebody somewhere who has decided that they have failed. So, those three elements, at a minimum, all make the notion of sin a very unpopular notion. A large portion of the 21st century population does not want to acknowledge that God exists, that God has standards and commands that He has imposed on the creature He created, and that He might one day determined that they have failed to comply with those standards and commands. When you think about it, it’s pretty easy to see why sin has declined in popularity.
VK: People today, even many Christians, like to view God as a sort of kindly grandfather. As you put in your book on prayer, Purposeful Prayers, “It is popular today to view God as sort of a kindly grandfather watching the activities of His children, applauding them when they do good, shaking His head ruefully when they mess up, always ready with a chocolate chip cookie and a hug to let them know He loves them. As appealing as this image is, it is not a faithful depiction of the God of the Bible.”
RD: The God of the Bible is a perfectly sovereign, holy, and just God. And He has set standards and given commands to the creature He created in His image. And that’s what this series is going to be all about. We are going to speak frankly about what happens when we fail to obey those commands or meet those standards. In other words we are going to talk about the seriousness of sin. And sin is serious. The commission of the first sin by man resulted in man losing Paradise. That first sin of man was followed by a succession of sins – lying, evasion, and cowardice - and that was followed by the first recorded death in the Bible. An animal had to be killed to provide a durable covering for Adam and Eve. And then, not long afterward, another succession of sins resulted in the first recorded murder in the Bible when Cain killed his brother Abel without any provocation. The first sin led to a tragic sequence of events that escalated in the dreadfulness of the consequences. Eventually, sin would proliferate so much it would result in the destruction of all life on the earth except for the people and animals God preserved in the ark of Noah.
VK: And that’s what we want to focus on today – what you are calling the “stakes of sin.” Now, when you say “stake” that’s S-T-A-K-E not S-T-E-A-K. We’re talking about the kind of stake that is at risk in a business or investment decision or the kind of decisions doctors have to make when confronted with severe diseases or injuries. We’re not concerned with a dinner option. We’re concerned with what the hazard that arises for lives and futures when people engage in sinful behavior – not with what happens to their waistline. Right?
RD: Right. As I was just mentioning there was a lot at stake – in fact an immeasurable amount – when Eve started staring longingly at the fruit on the tree. Before Eve’s hand reached for the fruit she and Adam lived in paradise. Not only was their every need met but all of their wants were satisfied. They had unblemished health, all the food they wanted, meaningful work, and unbroken communion with God. After Eve put the fruit in her mouth and gave some to Adam, who also ate, all of that was gone. The stakes that were at risk in that seemingly simple transaction were enormous. Not only did they lose paradise they condemned themselves to experience physical death. It didn’t happen right away, of course, but it became a certainty. And they brought that reality to their descendants since the father and mother of all who would be born according to the flesh.
VK: And the Bible tells that Adam and Eve’s decision to sin didn’t just affect people. Their sin didn’t just affect them and their descendants – it affected the entirety of the created order. When God pronounced a curse on them because of their rebellion, part of the curse was that nature itself would turn against them. In Genesis, chapter 3, verse 17 God said to Adam, “Since you listened to your wife and ate from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat, the ground is cursed because of you. All your life you will struggle to scratch a living from it.” And in the Apostle Paul’s letter to the Roman church Paul noted that “Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.” That’s Romans, chapter 8, verses 20 through 22. Both of those quotes are from the New Living Translation.
RD: And that’s one of the big things that we want to get into during this series on the seriousness of sin. Sin doesn’t just affect the individual sinner who commits a specific act, a specific sin. The effects of sin ripple outward like ripples in a pond when a rock falls in it. We often say to ourselves about some sin or another “who’s it going to hurt?” What we are saying is that we want to believe that our sin will only affect us. But that is rarely, if ever, true. Sin doesn’t just hurt the sinner. It hurts people far beyond the sinner. Often it hurts people the sinner never even knew. And, sadly, all too often the effects of the sin are irreversible on this side of glory.
VK: Someone who drives drunk doesn’t just put their own life at risk. They risk the lives of everyone on the road in their vicinity. The person who takes illegal narcotics doesn’t just affect their health. When they destroy their health they affect everyone who loves them – often costing others enormous amounts of time, money, and even their loved one’s health. An unfaithful spouse doesn’t just affect their wife or husband. Infidelity affects children and even parents and grandparents. The effects of a single sin can change the course of not just one person’s life but that of dozens or even hundreds of others. Sin is indeed serious business.
RD: Exactly. And we rarely think about that. We are so surrounded by sin that we rarely stop to consider the larger implications of sin. And the stakes of sin are enormous because they can affect not only lives in this world but eternal destinies. As in the garden when people begin to sin they are turning away from God. They are separating themselves from God and from the life, love, and freedom that only God can provide. And too often the choices that they make will affect many other people. When a parent turns away from Jesus and His Father they make a decision that will certainly have an impact on their children – and that impact will be felt regardless of whether the child is still living at home or not. How horrible will it be for someone in hell to learn that their refusal to accept Christ also resulted in others rejecting Jesus. And that is the point that I really want to make today. Sin is serious in the effects that in can have in this world. But sin’s consequences aren’t limited to this world or the life we live here. Sin ultimately is what will affect everyone’s eternal destiny. We need to recognize that. There is a God and the Bible makes it clear that we all know that there is a God. As hard as we may try to hide from that knowledge it never leaves us.
VK: That’s Romans, chapter 1, verses 18 through 20. “But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.” That’s also from the New Living Translation.
RD: Yes. We all know that there is a God. But, as that verse from Romans says, our sin and wickedness induce us to try to suppress that knowledge. The Greek word that is often translated as suppress is the same word that would be used to try and compress a strong spring. Suppressing the knowledge of God takes effort. Doing that – suppressing the knowledge of God – is sinful itself. So, one thing we must all reckon with is that there is a God but along with that recognition comes the awareness is that we have all failed that God in some way.

VK: Romans, chapter 3, verse 10 puts it this way: “As it is written: ‘There is no one righteous, not even one.’” That verse from Romans may be quoting Psalm 14, verse 1 which expresses a very similar sentiment.
RD: Right. So, we call our failures to meet God’s standards or comply with the obligations that God had established “sin.” In RC Sproul’s famous words, “Sin is cosmic rebellion.” Well, like all rebellion sin causes separation. In this case sin separates us from God. And there are consequences to that separation. Sin is a sort of cosmic bet between the sinner and the lawgiver. But sin is always a losing bet. The sinner always loses because in this case the Lawgiver is omnipotent and omniscient. The Lawgiver is infinite. So whether they thought about it or not there were some very high stakes in play when Adam and Eve listened to Satan and decided they wanted to be like God. So, one of the stakes that was in play was life itself. The first sin the garden produced a physical separation of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. And, ultimately, that first sin resulted in the separation of Adam and Even’s spirits and souls from their physical bodies.
VK: Philosophers sometimes note that there is a difference between distinguishing between two things and separating those things. Man possesses both material and immaterial attributes. We refer to the material aspect of people as our bodies and we refer to our immaterial aspect as a soul or spirit. Some Christians believe there is a difference between the soul and spirit whereas other Christians see those terms as being synonymous. We can distinguish between man’s immaterial and material aspects and we don’t affect the person. We can distinguish between a person’s soul and spirit and their body and we haven’t done that person any harm. But if we were to separate that person’s soul and spirit from their body we would call that “death.”
RD: Right. So, in a way known only to God that first sin made it certain that there would come a time when the immaterial part of Adam and Eve’s bodies would be separated from the material portion of their bodies. Adam and Eve weren’t the first people to experience physical death. That was likely Abel. But eventually they did as all of their descendants have experienced physical death.
VK: Well, except for Elijah and Enoch. The Bible tells us that God took Elijah to heaven in a chariot of fire and the Bible tells us that “When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.”
RD: Duly noted – but there are some commentators who believe that 2 witnesses mentioned in chapter 11 of the book of Revelation will be Elijah and Enoch and that they will experience physical death then. But aside from Elijah and Enoch all other people have experienced a physical death including Jesus. But the larger stake, the higher stake is whether or not our physical death will be followed by what is sometimes referred to as the “2nd death.” The Second Death is not death in the sense of a departure from one phase of life to another. It is rather being consigned to hell for all eternity – eternally separated from God’s goodness and benevolence.
VK: So, for people the stakes – the stakes of sin - really don’t get any higher than that. Strictly speaking nothing can separate us from God’s presence. God is omnipresent. He is present at all times and all places including hell. But hell is where God’s wrath is eternally present not His goodness, His kindness. Sin separates us from God’s favor and blessing and that is the danger that we must all consider. That’s the bad news. The good news – and it is really good news – that’s what the word “gospel” means: the good news – the good news is that our sin does not have to result in our eternal separation from God’s goodness and mercy. Jesus has paid the debt for our sin. So, when we place our trust in Him we change our eternal destination from hell to heaven.
RD: Praise the Lord. The New Testament writers note this blessed opportunity continually. They all recognize that sin has separated us from God’s love and good but in their next breath they praise God that Jesus died an atoning death on the cross to make our redemption and salvation possible.
VK: The Apostle Paul put it this way in Romans, chapter 5, verse 20, “God’s law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God’s wonderful grace became more abundant.” That’s from the New Living Translation. Paul well understood the stakes of sin – that sin left unresolved would result in the worst outcome possible. But Paul never ended his message with the recognition of sin. Paul saw that grace made sin serve a useful purpose. Sin separated from God’s goodness but grace – the unmerited favor of God – made restoration available.
RD: So, all of this points out why we need to soberly and honestly discuss the seriousness of sin. Sin is an unpopular idea in our day and age. Sin forces us to recognize that there is a God who has established standards and obligations for us and that we have failed in our obligations and violated God’s standards. And the consequence of that failure even in this world may very well not be limited to our own lives – to the life of the sinner. Sin’s effects ripple and sometimes those ripples will echo down through the years and down through a great many lives.
VK: The answer to the question “who is this going to hurt” may be dozens, hundreds, or thousands.
RD: It’s the exception rather than the rule that the only person hurt by sin is the sinner. And all too often the ones who suffer are the ones the sinner professes to love most. Sin’s effects ripple and as we have been discussing those ripples are necessarily confined to this life or this world. The highest stakes at risk as a result of sin are the eternal stakes. And that is why, despite the fact that talking about sin isn’t very popular these days, we must talk about it.
VK: But like the Apostle Paul and the other New Testament writers we should always connect our discussions of sin with the availability of grace. Adam and Eve started a sad and tragic sequence in the Garden of Eden but as soon as they sinned God began His plan of redemption. I love how you put it in our epic poem The Genesis Saga.
Yet with love God still thought of man.
God determined to thwart evil’s scheme.
God’s grace now rose to fore,
God’s mercy now entered the scene.
In due time God’s only son
Would crush Satan’s schemes and dreams.
God’s son would die for the lost,
A beloved people to cleanse and redeem.
In Eden Satan tempted man
But in the wilderness he met defeat.
A Savior sent from heaven above
Brought salvation full and complete
RD: That’s the big reason we do projects like The Genesis Saga which we hope to release shortly. Sin is serious. Sin’s consequences are catastrophic. They are terrible in this world and they can be eternal. But they don’t have to be. God has made salvation available to anyone who will simply acknowledge their sin.
VK: You’re alluding to 1 (First) John, chapter 1, verses 8 & 9 where the Apostle John wrote: “If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.” That’s so counterintuitive to the way the world thinks and wants to work. The world and the people of the world want to hide their sin and to pretend that it doesn’t exist. But God tells us that when we confess our sins to Him He will forgive us. We rightfully hate the fact that we sin but it is a further sin to resist the provision that God has made to save us from ourselves.
RD: Yes. People today will mock the idea that sin exists at all. Unwittingly, when they do that, they only reinforce the certainty of their eternal destruction – just as Adam and Eve’s first sin made it certain that they would experience physical death. But if we will simply abandon our belief in our own goodness and acknowledge that we are sinners and do sin then God will – God has – made provision to save us from our sins. The stakes of sin are high, enormous, and potentially eternal. But our omnipotent God is bigger than our sin. As the old hymn says, “grace that is greater than all our sin.”
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that sin is seriousness. But the best way to deal with its seriousness is by looking to the provisions that God has made to change the consequence of our sin from eternal damnation to eternal blessing. The stakes of sin have been addressed by Jesus. The question for us is whether we will accept the provisions that He made for us or stubbornly continue to insist that sin is just an outdated concept with no relevance to our modern world. This sounds like a great time to pray. Since we have just been talking about the fact that God will forgive us when we confess our sins, today let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession. John has assured us that when we confess our sins God is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins. That fact alone should make us ready and willing to acknowledge our sins to our Holy God.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION (MARCUS)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New King James Version)
Romans, Chapter 6, verse 23, New King James Version

Episode 223 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 2 – Hell
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The rich man also died and was buried. He went to hell and was suffering terribly. … he said to Abraham, “Have pity on me! … I'm suffering terribly in this fire.”
Luke, Chapter 16, verse 23, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re very happy to be with you again. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to continue the series we began last time that we are calling this series “The Seriousness of Sin.” This may very well be the most important series that we have ever done because of the biggest challenges confronting Christianity today is a determined attempt to eradicate the concept of sin. We live in a day and time that shuns the idea that there could be a holy God who has given commands to mankind and that He will hold people accountable when they violate those commands. So, we are going to spend several episodes of Anchored by Truth reaffirming that not only does the Bible firmly teach the reality of sin, but also that our ordinary life experiences ratify that sin is a continuing plague and problem for all of us. In the studio as we continue our series we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why don’t you give us a brief overview of some of the big ideas that we discussed last time?
RD: Well, one idea we covered, as you just mentioned, is there are many people today who vehemently disagree that sin even exists. Our broader culture wants to do away with the idea of sin because the concept of sin affirms the existence of God and affirms not only that God exists but also that God has established obligations to which all people are subject. And a third concept that applies to the concept of sin is that of failure – and not just failure but willful failure, willful disobedience. These three elements, at a minimum, all make the notion of sin a very unpopular notion is a society that believes reality is so malleable that there are dozens of genders. As some commentators have put it, when we believe we can establish our own reality the next step is to see ourselves as God. That’s all nonsense, of course, but all we have to do is look around and we see that people are starting to buy into the nonsense. It’s dangerous and eternally deadly.
VK: People have chased the idea that they can be like God ever since Satan first tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. In Genesis, chapter 3, verse 5 we hear Satan saying to Eve, “God understands what will happen on the day you eat fruit from [the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil]. You will see what you have done, and you will know the difference between right and wrong, just as God does.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version.
RD: Right. People, especially in the west, find the idea of obligatory standards and commands one of the most objectionable ideas possible. In previous decades people at least had a basic understanding that the universe, the created order, could not exist without a Creator. God’s necessity as the Creator formed a common starting point for just about all world views. But today we have embraced deep time, evolution, and uniformitarianism as concepts to explain the universe’s appearance as it is. We have thereby done away with the necessity to believe in God as the Creator much less in God as the ultimate lawgiver.
VK: As the prominent atheist Richard Dawkins put it in his book The Blind Watchmaker, “Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.”
RD: Sadly, yes. So, do away with God as Creator and you’ve done away with God as Lawgiver. Do away with God and you do away with any transcendent moral or ethical standards that bind human behavior. Do away with standards and you’ve done away with the possibility that you might fail those standards or that anyone might judge you and assign consequences for that failure. So, in one short sequence of thought you have done away with sin.
VK: This is one reason that what some term “the battle for the beginning” is so important. When God is replaced by evolutionary thought the door to all kinds of mischief swings wide open.
RD: Yes. But the door that is swinging open is actually the gate to hell. The God of the Bible is a perfectly sovereign, holy, and just God. He has set standards and given commands to the creature He created in His image. The commission of the first sin by a man and woman resulted in the loss of an earthly Paradise. The commission of all subsequent sins creates the risk of people losing an eternal Paradise. That’s why we are doing this series. We have all lost that original earthly paradise. We don’t want people losing out on an eternal one also.
VK: So, today we want to talk about what the Bible tells us is in store for those who do forsake their eternal paradise – who are condemned to hell as a consequence of their sin.
RD: Right. There is a lot at stake –an immeasurable amount – when people don’t understand the seriousness of sin. Actually, the simple fact that Jesus had to die on the cross to atone for our sins should be all that we need to understand just how serious sin is. The eternal, almighty Son of God had to leave a throne He had occupied for all eternity, come to earth to assume a human nature, be born in humble circumstances, and then die a miserable death of the worst kind just to make our delivery from sin possible. Just thinking about that straightforward fact ought to be all that we need to say about how serious sin really is.
VK: But today, it’s not. As we have mentioned many people today don’t believe in God. They don’t believe in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God, the Bible, and even many who do believe in God and the Bible don’t acknowledge the reality of sin and hell. They allegorize the parts of the Bible that plainly talk about hell or treat them as poetic moral lessons designed to teach but without any underlying substantive reality. But, we might ask, if there is no corresponding, underlying reality that is horrible then why would the so-called moral lesson have any moral value or meaning? We warn children about the consequences of making bad decisions because the consequences are real. The child who touches the hot stove knows that the lesson “don’t touch” was important. The consequence reinforces the importance of the lesson. But the child who is told not to touch the stove and touches when it’s cold learns nothing. Or worse the child forms the very dangerous false idea that the stove may be touched at any time without repercussions. If hell is not real with real suffering then of what value is a moral lesson that uses hell as a potential consequence.
RD: As I sometimes say in our Life Lessons with a Laugh, “exactamundo.” A little thinking quickly tells you that there must be a real place that possesses the attributes of hell otherwise the idea of hell is of little to no value in teaching a moral lesson. So, the cynics who doubt the Bible’s descriptions of hell as being a literal place are just being silly when they say that the idea of hell was just a way of trying to convey a moral imperative. But there is another and even more serious reason that we cannot reasonably allegorize or diminish the reality of hell.
VK: What is that?
RD: Because the person in the Bible that talked the most about hell – from whom we get the most information about hell – is Jesus. So, we can’t dismiss the reality of hell without dismissing the sinlessness of Jesus.
VK: For instance, in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13, verses 49 and 50 Jesus said, “That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” In the Gospel of Mark, chapter 9, verses 47 and 48 Jesus said, “It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, ‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’” And in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 5, verse 22 Jesus said, “But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” These are just examples of some things that Jesus said about hell.
RD: No one in the Bible talked more about hell than Jesus. That makes sense because Jesus mission on the earth was to provide the means by which sinful people could avoid hell as their eternal destiny. His mission would have made absolutely no sense if hell didn’t exist as a real place and a real possibility. And if Jesus had somehow just been threatening people with a non-existent penalty he would have been the opposite of a great teacher or a good man. And He certainly could not have been the sinless Savior if he had lied to people so many times and on such a serious subject. But since hell is real Jesus had every reason to mention it frequently during his teaching.
VK: Just those few verses show how remarkable it is for anyone who claims to be a Christian to doubt that hell exists as a literal place. It is one thing for an unbeliever to doubt whether hell is real, but it is another thing for a Christian to do so. Literally, our salvation depends on whether Jesus was right about hell being a place of real terror and torment. If Jesus was mistaken about hell or He lied about it that would mean Jesus could be wrong or He sinned. But God can do neither. For Jesus to be our Savior He must be fully divine as well as fully human. God cannot be wrong or sin. Fortunately, our salvation is intact because Jesus was not wrong about hell and He was being straight when He warned His audiences to fear it.
RD: Right. Some people will object to the reality of hell under the assertion that “a loving God could never send anyone to hell.” But what those people miss is that God is holy and just besides being loving. A just God cannot not punish evil and rebellion.
VK: And there is plenty of evil and rebellion in this world.
RD: Amen. A perfectly just God (which God is) must punish rebellion, sin, and evil. A holy God cannot tolerate unrighteousness or wickedness in His sight or presence and God does not. Even with respect to the redeemed God has already vindicated His just and holy nature by punishing someone for the sins of the redeemed. It’s just that Jesus has already borne the punishment for the sins of His people. When the Bible says that Jesus “propitiated” our sins it means He willingly accepted the punishment that was due to us and so restored our holy status in the sight of God. The American Heritage Dictionary defines “propitiation “to gain or regain the goodwill or favor of; appease.” As some commentators have phrased it, “God saved us from Himself, for Himself, by Himself.”
VK: So, for the redeemed God has already punished their sin through Jesus. That’s why we can say that we possess the righteousness of Christ. Jesus accepted the punishment that we deserve so we can receive the rewards that He deserved. A righteous God cannot punish us because Jesus has already been punished for us. But the story is different for those who reject Jesus’ offer of salvation. Since they refuse to allow Jesus sacrifice to apply to them the will have to suffer for their own sins. But a finite man can never repay an infinite sin debt. So, their repayment attempt must last for all eternity.
RD: So, the people who say a loving God would never send anyone to hell are correct. God is loving and God has expressed that love through the sacrifice that Jesus made for us. But to reject Jesus is to reject God’s love and mercy. Those who are unwilling to be examples of God’s mercy and grace will automatically be examples of God’s perfect justice. And that justice demands punishment for sin.
VK: So, for people the stakes – the stakes of sin - really don’t get any higher than that. As we said last time, strictly speaking nothing can separate us from God’s presence. God is omnipresent. He is present at all times and all places including hell. But hell is where God’s wrath is eternally present not His goodness, His kindness. Sin separates us from God’s favor and blessing and that is the danger that we must all consider. But in a very real sense God is not sending anyone to hell. God is simply honoring the choice they are making when they reject His offer of mercy. God is willing to save everyone. 2 (second) Peter, chapter 3, verse 9 puts it this way. “The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.” That’s from the New Living Translation.
RD: God wants everyone to repent. All who repent and accept Christ are saved. Those who repent receive the consequences of their choice – a life for all eternity with God and Jesus where they live, which is in heaven. Those who reject Christ receive the consequences of their choice. They live for all eternity away from the blessings of heaven and with the misery of hell. C.S. Lewis famously said in his book The Problem of Pain that the “gates to hell are locked from the inside.” Said differently, hell is a consequence of our choices not a consequence of our composition.
VK: You are alluding to the fact that hell was not a necessary part of our physical creation. In Genesis, chapter 1, verse 31 we hear that, “Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good!” That’s from the New Living Translation. Well, God would not have pronounced everything “very good” if sin and death were present in the original creation. They weren’t. Sin entered the world through Satan’s temptation and death entered the world because of sin. The entrance of sin made the reality of hell an inevitable consequence for those who choose to remain in their sin.
RD: So, all of this points out why we need to soberly and honestly discuss the seriousness of sin. Sin and hell are inextricably linked. Sin separates from man from God’s goodness. Those who regret that separation can seek reconciliation through Jesus. That’s why we open every show of Anchored by Truth with the quote from Jesus in John 14:6. “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” Jesus is the way to salvation and heaven. Despite the objections of the world Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, when people reject Jesus they are announcing to the world their preference to continue their separation from God and Jesus. As someone has wryly observed to force an unrepentant sinner to be in heaven in the immediate presence of God’s face would be hell for that person. As some have put it, in the end there are only two choices. There are those who say to God, “thy will be done.” And there are those to whom God says, “thy will be done.”
VK: God’s will as we heard in 2 Peter 3:9 is for everyone to come to repentance and thereby go to heaven. But I suppose there are those who say “well, why doesn’t God just end the existence of anyone who rejects Him?” In other words, wouldn’t oblivion just be an alternative to consigning people to a place where, in Jesus’ words, “where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.”
RD: Well, I suppose the immediate response to someone who suggests that oblivion would be preferable to an eternity in hell would be to ask them, “how do you know?” It’s pretty obvious those recommending oblivion are still around. And there is a basic category error that is present in their assertion – that nothing is better than something. Oblivion would be non-existence. Is non-existence better than existence? We can’t ask the non-existent.
VK: Because they don’t exist. Fair point.
RD: But there is another problem with the assertion that oblivion is a preferable alternative to hell for the rebellious. It diminishes the dignity of human beings. When God made man He made man His image bearer. With that special status came the ability to reason, understand the world around him, and make free choices. Adam and Eve made the free choice to eat from the one tree that was off limits. And if we are being honest we would all have to admit that we have all freely sinned of our own free choice. We may not like the consequences of our sin but we have all chosen to sin. Hell is one of the consequences of our sin. As dire and sad as it may be God confirms the fact that He will respect the consequences of man’s free choices.
VK: God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The first consequence of their rebellion fell on an innocent animal. This was a foreshadowing of the fact that one day the consequences of their sin would be borne by the innocent Lamb of God. But another consequence of their rebellion was that they were exiled from earthly paradise - Eden. That foreshadowed that one day some of their descendants would be exiled from the heavenly paradise that surrounds God’s throne. Actions have consequences. Adam and Eve found that out. Unfortunately, those who impenitently reject Jesus offer of salvation will also find out that their rejection has consequences.
RD: Yes. If God had left Adam and Eve in Eden they would have rightly learned that they could ignore God’s commands without consequence. That would exhibit blatant disrespect for God. But Adam and Eve bore God’s image. Disrespect for the Image Creator also diminishes the image bearer. Just as if we have a bruise and look at ourselves in the mirror we don’t just see our image we see our bruise. Well, a perfectly holy, infinite Being can’t tolerate rebellion, disrespect, or be bruised. So, one of the consequences of Adam and Eve’s rebellion besides being cast out of Eden was to create the possibility of eternal damnation. Similarly, Adam and Eve would have been far less protected from the elements if they had not accepted God’s provision for covering their nakedness – the skin of the innocent animal.
VK: I see what you’re getting at. Adam and Eve’s actions in the garden set off a chain of consequences. The skin of the innocent animal partially offset as least some of the consequence. Jesus’ death as an atonement for sin offsets the consequences of sin, one of which is hell, but only partially – only for those who accept Christ as their Savior. Jesus’ sacrifice is sufficient to offset the sins of everyone and God would like that – but many people, even today, continue to reject Jesus of their own free will. God permits free choice but as you say in your Christmas epic poem The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma “[God] knows that if we [make the wrong choice] we'll suffer though we had good intent. For the [God] permits free choice even when it brings sad events.”
RD: Yes. If God simply obliterated everyone who rebels against Him He would be treating people differently. The people in heaven would receive the consequences of their choice to accept Christ’s provision for their sin. And those consequences will go on for all eternity. But the people obliterated would not receive eternal consequences of their choice because they would go out of existence. It is absolutely true that the experiences of the two groups are going to be dramatically different but the duration of the experiences is going to be identical – all of eternity. But that’s why we do what we do on Anchored by Truth. There is no need for anyone listening to ever suffer in hell. Avoiding hell is as simple as acknowledging their sin and accepting Jesus’ offer of salvation.
VK: I am always reminded of the thief on the cross next to Jesus. In the Gospel of Luke, chapter 23, verse 42 where we hear “Then [the thief] said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.’ And Jesus replied, ‘I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.’” Jesus didn’t tell the thief to do anything or be anything. The thief recognized that Jesus could save him and simply announced that tiny bit of faith. His faith was instantly rewarded by Jesus with the promise that the thief would be with Him that day in paradise. Eden restored for one lost sinner.
RD: Yes. And Eden can be restored for all lost sinners. Hell is not just a possibility, it is a certainty for all who reject Jesus. So, why do that? Why risk eternal fire when there is no need. Jesus would happily save every person alive on the earth today, every person who has ever lived. It is the stubborn refusal to acknowledge that we have rebelled that consigns people to hell. And that alone tells us how serious sin is. Sin is so serious that the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity left His eternal throne to remove the need for anyone to endure hell. Yet we not only treat sin lightly today, many people try to deny its existence and reality entirely.
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce in this series is that sin is seriousness. Sin’s seriousness is revealed by looking at the provisions that God has made to change the consequence of our sin from eternal damnation to eternal blessing. The stakes of sin have been addressed by Jesus. The question for us is whether we will accept the provisions that He made for us or stubbornly continue to insist that sin is just an outdated concept with no relevance to our modern world. This sounds like a great time to pray. Since we have just been talking about the fact that there are many people who have yet to acknowledge the fact that they are separated from God, today let’s listen to a prayer for the spiritually lost. Peter told us that God wants everyone to come to repentance. This prayer is us setting our hearts in agreement with the Apostle that God’s gracious offer of salvation has not changed for over 2,000 years.
---- PRAYER FOR THE SPIRITUALLY LOST
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)
Luke, Chapter 16, verse 23, Contemporary English Version

Episode 224 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 3 – Hell, Too
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Then the devil who fooled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and burning sulfur. He will be there with the beast and the false prophet, and they will be in pain day and night forever and ever.
Revelation, Chapter 20, verse 10, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad that you are able to join us today on Anchored by Truth as we move forward with a series we call “The Seriousness of Sin.” We live in a day and time when not only do many people reject the idea of God but also many people do acknowledge God’s existence nevertheless reject the idea of sin. Our culture has given up or pushes away the awareness that there a holy God who will hold people accountable for all of their actions and deeds. So, we are spending several episodes of Anchored by Truth reaffirming that not only does the Bible firmly teach the reality of sin, but also that our ordinary life experiences ratify that sin is present in our lives and in the lives of everyone around us. In the studio as we continue our series we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, in our first episode of this series we discussed what you called the stakes of sin – that’s stakes as in gambling stakes not the kind of steak that comes from a cow. And last time we identified that one of sin’s dire consequences is that sin will send people to hell. That’s a pretty high stake, isn’t it?
RD: I’d say that the possibility of someone winding up in hell is probably the highest possible stake for all people individually – in no small part, because as we heard in our opening scripture, hell is eternal. That verse from Revelation is very clear that the devils as well as some people are going to be “in pain day and night forever and ever.” The Beast and the False Prophet are people who have served Satan’s kingdom on this earth. So, their fate will be the same as his.
VK: That verse says that the devil is going to be thrown into “the lake of fire and burning sulfur.” And that’s one of the subjects that we want to talk about today. Do you think that the Bible is being poetic when it proclaims that the Devil’s eternal destination is a lake of fire and burning sulfur? Or, is there the possibility that that verse contains some literal truth.
RD: Well, before I get to that question I want to go over a few other parts of the Bible that talk about hell than just our verse from Revelation. I also want to remind everyone that we also spent our last episode of Anchored by Truth talking about hell. And in that last episode our focus was on the reality of hell. But in this episode we want to build on what we discussed last time and discuss the nature of hell. Just like a lot of people today want to dismiss the whole idea of sin there are people, including an entire strain of Christians, who want to dismiss the idea of hell. But, as we pointed out last time the person in the Bible who talked the most about hell is Jesus. Jesus clearly proclaimed that hell is a literal place and none of his descriptions about hell differ substantively from what we heard in our verse from Revelation.
VK: For instance, in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13, verses 49 and 50 Jesus said, “That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” In the Gospel of Mark, chapter 9, verses 47 and 48 Jesus said, “It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye than to … be thrown into hell, ‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’” And in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 5, verse 22 Jesus said, “If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” These are just examples of some things that Jesus said about hell. All of those are from the New Living Translation.
RD: So, just as Jesus confirmed the reality of hell in His teaching, He also gave us a great deal to consider about the nature of hell. And notice that in all of the sample scriptures you just mentioned the idea of fire is present in each one. In Matthew, chapter 13: 50 Jesus mentions a “fiery furnace.” In Mark, chapter 9:48 hell is said to be a place “where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.” And in Matthew 5:22 Jesus said, “if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” So, here we have 4 different verses from various books and all of them contain some reference to fire.
VK: So, it’s little wonder that even cartoon depictions of hell and some Hollywood productions, as awful as they are theologically, all use fire as a common motif in portraying hell.
RD: Yes. But fire is not the only thing that is often mentioned when the subject of hell comes up in the Bible. One of the most prominent discussions of hell outside of Jesus’ descriptions is found in the book of Jude, which is the next to last book of the Bible. Jude, verse 6 says, “You also know about the angels who didn't do their work and left their proper places. God chained them with everlasting chains and is now keeping them in dark pits until the great day of judgment.”
VK: Jude has only one chapter so it’s only necessary to give the verse number for it.
RD: Right. So, notice that Jude mentions “dark pits” and “everlasting chains” as elements present in hell.
VK: And that reference to “dark pits” calls to mind some other verses. 1 Samuel, chapter 2, verse 9 from the Berean Standard Bible says this. “He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness...” The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 8, verse 12 Amplified Bible says this. “… the descendants of Abraham who will not recognize Me as Messiah will be thrown out into the outer darkness; in that place [which is farthest removed from the kingdom] there will be weeping [in sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [in distress and anger].” So, there are 3 different references about hell all of which mention “darkness.” I can see why you wanted to add a few other Bible verses to our inventory about hell before we focused more on the verse from Revelation – because, at least on the surface, it might seem hard to reconcile the idea of fire, a lake of fire, or a fiery furnace, with a place of darkness.
RD: And let’s not forget Jesus’ comment about a place where “maggots never die.” A cynic might observe that on this earth you’re very unlikely to find maggots living in the midst of a fiery furnace. In fact, that’s the last place you’d find maggots.
VK: Hmmm. I’m starting to see why you wanted to do this episode about the nature of hell. Taken together we get a picture of hell that might seem to be confusing. Some people might even argue that some of the descriptions are in conflict with others.
RD: Well, let’s add a couple of more verses into the mix and I think clarity will begin to emerge. The Apostle Paul also wrote about hell and a couple of the best known verses that he wrote about hell are found in 2 Thessalonians, chapter 1, verses 7 through 9.
VK: Those verses say, “… when the Lord Jesus appears from heaven. He will come with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don’t know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.
RD: So, one of the key elements about hell that we can point to with certainty is “eternal destruction.” Whatever the specific manifestations of hell are they are all going to be destructive to the occupants. And that destruction is going to last eternally. Now, for those of us who live in a physical universe we are accustomed to destruction always having limits. If we tear down a building there will come a point when the building is totally destroyed. If we have a garden it can be destroyed but after it is it is just gone. Even human beings can destroy themselves but that destruction ends with death. In our physical universe destruction is never “eternal.” There are always limits. But that changes when it comes to the time after death. There are no limits there on how long destruction can continue.
VK: And that should begin to strike true terror in the hearts of people who think about it. It’s one thing to suffer here. There are a lot of terrible diseases and conditions and just about everybody knows someone who has suffered with a prolonged condition. But we always know that their suffering will have a definite end. But that changes when we leave this life, doesn’t it. And that’s terrifying.
RD: Amen. So, from the Apostle Paul we see a common element that ties all of our earlier verses together. Fire, furnaces, and maggots are all destructive in one way or another. And darkness is often a consequence of destruction. Think about the clouds of smoke that are produced by a large fire especially a fire that is fed by oil or tar and especially if the fire is confined in some way. This attribute of hell is reinforced by the fact that hell is often connected with a pit or an abyss.
VK: In Revelation, chapter 9, verses 1 and 2 we are told this. “The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.” And in the Gospel of Luke, chapter 8, verses 27 through 31, we hear this famous incident. “When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. ... When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, ‘What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t [torment] me!’ For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. … Jesus asked him, ‘What is your name?’ ‘Legion,’ he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.” Both of those are from the New International Version.
RD: So, from all of these references while we may not be able to answer every question that we would like we can form some pretty clear ideas about the nature of hell – starting with the fact that hell is a place of destruction and the process of destruction goes on forever. Said differently, whatever the soul in hell experiences it will feel as though they are being destroyed and the feelings are going to last forever without let up. And it seems we can also say that that destructive presence is going to be connected with a sensation of extreme heat or fire. I don’t think we can say with certainty that there will be literal fire … but I also don’t think that we can exclude that possibility. And I definitely think that we can say that hell is a place of confinement and restriction as would be true of any pit or abyss.
VK: Well, certainly a fire burning in a pit or deep abyss would match many of the descriptions. People might sense the fire but if the fire is accompanied by a great deal of smoke that would be consistent with darkness, even a profound darkness. And certainly anything tossed into a burning pit is going to be destroyed. On this earth the destruction will end when the physical elements that comprise the thing have been reduced as far as physically possible. But if that limit doesn’t exist who knows what that is like? Certainly not any of us who are still alive in the physical universe.
RD: And that points to another important attribute to recognize about the nature of hell. In this universe we live within our bodies. We are not our bodies per se because human beings are comprised of both material and non-material components. We have bodies but we also have both souls and spirits. Even people who don’t believe in God know that they have a “mind” and emotions that are separate from their physical body. Their mind and emotions are certainly affected by their bodies but even non-believers can make that distinction. But our mind, soul, spirits, etc. are present in this life only within our bodies. So, our bodies put a limit on our suffering. But that limit is cast off when our souls, spirits, and minds are separated from our bodies.
VK: Oh. I think I see what you’re saying and I don’t like it. In this life all the sensations we experience are filtered by our flesh. When our flesh fails our sensations change. There are certain conditions like diabetes or Hansen’s disease where nerves deteriorate and are no longer able to transmit signals to the brain. Hansen’s disease is one form of leprosy. With those kinds of diseases the body might deteriorate, even severely, and the person would never notice it because they wouldn’t get the sensations of the decline that would normally be present.
RD: But all that would change if it’s not your flesh that is passing the signals. If we could somehow perceive pain directly without the mediation of our body it’s impossible for us to conceive of how horrible that would be. Remember the Bible is clear that the demons are going to be tormented in hell also. Think about the verses we just heard from Luke, chapter 8. Well, demons are spiritual creatures. They don’t have bodies. But they can experience torment despite not having a body and they clearly have a fear of the abyss – likely because that is the place of torment. The point is that on this earth we can at least always have the comfort of knowing that suffering will have limits. It may not feel that way sometimes, but we know it will end at some point. But the demons are very well aware that they can be tormented in the abyss without limit.
VK: Yikes. That’s something that we never think about. We are so used to living in the physical world that it is hard for us to envision a condition where we don’t have the limits we have here.
RD: So, as we said last time, all of this points out why we need to soberly and honestly discuss the seriousness of sin. Sin and hell are inextricably linked. Sin separates people from God’s goodness and exposes them to the horror of hell. And hell is horrible. And there is at least one more thing we need to make clear about hell before we wrap up for today.
VK: Which is?
RD: We need to get rid of the idea that hell is some kind of a giant party place where the sinners will be with their sinful friends and all of them together with just continue sinning for all eternity.
VK: Well, I think most of us have heard the old saying that goes something like this. “I don’t care if I get sent to hell. That’s where all my friends will be.” Is that what you’re talking about?
RD: Yes. There is this frivolous notion that circulates that even if hell is a hot place everyone there will be free to roam about and at least share their misery with other people. Nothing could be further from the truth.
VK: You’re thinking about the verse that we heard from Jude and about Revelation, chapter 20, verses 1 and 2. Those verses say, “And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him …” That’s the New International Version. Both Jude and John who wrote Revelation mention demons being bound with chains. Anyone bound with chains is certainly not going to be roaming about.
RD: Yes. Now, again, I don’t know if the chains are literal or whether God is simply using images that would have been familiar to the audiences of that time. Chains in prison was certainly common in the age when Jude and John wrote. But whether the chains are literal or not the language Jude and John used sends a very clear message that demons and people in hell are going to be confined. Will they be confined together or separately? We don’t know. But there is no Bible verse that indicates that the prisoners in hell will have the opportunity to be sharing their misery with one another.
VK: I see what you’re getting at. One common idea about hell is that it will be like an earthly prison – a hot one maybe – but like a prison. And in prison prisoners are usually free to move about and talk to each other. Only the worst prisons chain the prisoners and where that is done it adds misery to misery. But you see that as a distinct possibility in hell.
RD: Yes. A lot of people would like to think that all of the Bible’s descriptions about the attributes, the nature, of hell are symbolic rather than literal. But, as the New Geneva Study Bible puts it in their text note on hell, “These terms are probably symbolic rather than literal, but, if anything, the reality will be more terrible than the symbol. New Testament teaching about hell is meant to appall us and fill us with horror …”
VK: The symbols in the Bible always have an underlying reality. For hundreds of years the Jews were told that a Messiah was coming who would be their deliverer. And they associated the Passover lamb with that deliverance because of their deliverance from bondage in Egypt. But when the ultimate Passover Lamb arrived the deliverance wasn’t just from political bondage but from the even far greater bondage to sin and hell. In other words, the reality of Christ’s sacrifice provided a far better deliverance than they had ever expected. That’s the positive side of symbols and reality. Hell is the negative side.
RD: Yes. Hell is not just a possibility. It is a certainty for all who reject Jesus. So, why risk eternal fire, chains, darkness, and bottomless pits when there is no need. Jesus will deliver everyone who confesses their sin and accepts His provision for their sin. When He taught, Jesus talked about hell in large measure to make sure that his audience understood what was at stake. So, regardless of how conceive of all of the descriptive elements of hell being manifested in reality, the truth is that our human minds probably can’t form an adequate image of the true horror.
VK: I am reminded of 1 (First) Corinthians, chapter 2, verses 7 through 9. “… the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God—his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began. But the rulers of this world have not understood it; if they had, they would not have crucified our glorious Lord. That is what the Scriptures mean when they say,
“No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.” When the Apostle Paul wrote that he was saying that heaven is going to be so glorious that we can’t image how glorious it will be. The glory of heaven has never entered the imagination of any human mind.
RD: Yes. And the same thing is true on the flip side. And one final note. In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 25, verse 41, Jesus said, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” That’s the New International Version. Notice that Jesus, who would know, said that the eternal fire was not prepared for people. It was prepared for the devil and his rebellious angel followers. Human beings were created to live in Eden. Adam and Eve exchanged a life without death in Eden for death and the possibility of sharing hell with the demons by disobeying God. That’s how serious sin is. One sin in Eden cost mankind an earthly paradise. Now it is up to each of us to decide whether we want to also give up our eternal paradise. As Paul said, God has prepared wonderful things for those who love Him. Why wouldn’t we simply accept God’s gracious offer of salvation through Christ Jesus?
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce in this series is that sin is serious. The nature of hell shows us how serious God is about sin. If sin weren’t cosmically serious hell wouldn’t have to be so cosmically horrible. Our culture doesn’t like the idea of sin or hell and we understand that. But our preferences don’t change reality. We don’t like the idea of sin or that we might be sent to hell. At Anchored by Truth we’re not naïve. We get that many people find the idea of sin and hell objectionable. But the question that each of us must answer for ourselves is whether we will accept the provisions that Jesus made for us or stubbornly continue to insist that sin is just an outdated concept with no relevance to our modern world. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our nation. It’s not too late but the clock is rapidly drawing down on our opportunity to be a nation that serves God rather than our own self-interest. Peter told us that God wants everyone to come to repentance. God is gracious. We should avail ourselves of that grace while we are this side of the veil that separates time and eternity. Life is short. Judgement is certain. Christ’s provision is available to ensure the light we will see is the glory of God not the flames of perdition.
---- PRAYER FOR THE NATION (MARCUS)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)
Revelation, Chapter 20, verse 10, Contemporary English Version

Episode 225 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 4 – Guilt and God
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.
Proverbs, Chapter 28, verse 1, King James Bible

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VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re so happy that you are able to join us today on Anchored by Truth as we keep going with our series we call “The Seriousness of Sin.” We’re doing this series because there is an ongoing effort in our culture today to eliminate sin as a “real and present” danger to our lives and eternal salvation. In the studio today we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, sin is a pretty unpopular concept in our culture today – and even in the church. Why do you think that is?
RD: Sin is unpopular because it the word sin, the idea of sin, embodies three elements that are out of favor in popular Western culture: God, transcendent moral and ethical standards, and judgment. Today our culture hates the idea that someday an omniscient God will pass judgment on everyone who has ever lived. Yet, as much as we hate the idea we can’t get away from it.
VK: The Bible is very clear that no matter how much people try to deny that God exists and they are sinful it doesn’t work. The book of Romans, chapter 1, verses 18 through 20 say, “From heaven God shows how angry he is with all the wicked and evil things that sinful people do to crush the truth. They know everything that can be known about God, because God has shown it all to them. God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That's why those people don't have any excuse.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version.
RD: Right. We all know that God exists and we know that we are accountable to Him. We may deny it our whole lives but our denial doesn’t change the reality. That’s the biggest reason we are doing this series. Because the reality is that sin poses a danger to every person on the planet. Sin can dramatically affect lives in the here and now.
VK: Like driving drunk, or stealing your neighbor’s property, or failing to pay your taxes …
RD: Yes. Sin can and does affect lives in the here and now but even more seriously, sin imperils our eternal destiny. Unrepentant sinners – if they remain unrepentant until death – will face an eternity in hell.
VK: And that’s what we spent our last two episodes of Anchored by Truth discussing. We spent an episode discussing the reality of hell and we spent an episode discussing the nature of hell. There are a lot of cartoonish and Hollywood movie portrayals of hell but none of them ever approach the nightmarish truth.
RD: Yes. Hell is an eternity of despair, desolation, and destruction. That eternity is depicted in the Bible by a number of horrible images – a lake of fire, a burning pit of garbage with worms that don’t die, a deep abyss filled with smoke and torment, etc. But regardless of how horrible the Bible’s depictions are the reality will be much, much, much worse.
VK: So, the possibility of winding up there is pretty serious. And the reason people will wind up there – if they don’t rely on Jesus as their Savior – is sin. Sin is so serious because it has eternal implications for the sinner.
RD: Right. Unredeemed sinners have only one destination and it is not heaven. And there is only one way for any sinner to be redeemed – by the atoning blood of Christ Jesus. Fortunately, Christ’s atonement is available to any and all who will simply ask for him to become their Savior – their advocate if you will.
VK: And that’s why you titled one of your fiction books The Prodigal’s Advocate. We are all prodigals. We all need an advocate.
RD: Yes. That’s why I wrote Prodigal’s Advocate. It’s a fictional allegory designed to help people understand that we are all sinners. We all need an advocate to represent us before the judgment seat of God. Otherwise we will be there on our own and an imperfect being standing on their own before an infinite and perfect Judge is not just a dire situation – it is a situation from which recovery is literally impossible. And that’s why we’re doing this Seriousness of Sin series. We don’t want anybody to experience the desolation and destruction of hell.
VK: Because hell will be eternal – and no how long we live on this earth our time on this earth will be just a blip of time in eternity. So, today you wanted to conclude our discussion about hell and move on to how we can all be certain for ourselves that sin, hell, and judgment are real. But you said that there is one more topic about hell that we need to cover.
RD: Yes. We began this discussion as we were closing out our last episode. We need to get rid of the idea that hell is some kind of a giant party place where sinners will be with their sinful friends and all of them together with just continue sinning for all eternity.
VK: A sort of “hot but happy” scenario. I know what you’re talking about. I have heard people flippantly say “I don’t care if I get sent to hell. That’s where all my friends will be.” Or something like, “I won’t mind being hell as long as the beer is cold there.”
RD: A lot of people seem to have the notion is that hell will be like an earthly prison – a hot one maybe – but like a prison with Satan as the warden and the demons as prison guards. So, they reason that in hell the prisoners may be miserable but they will be free to move about and talk to each other. But there are Bible verses that directly contradict that notion that anyone in hell will have freedom of movement.
VK: For instance Revelation, chapter 20, verses 1 and 2. Those verses say, “And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him …” That’s the New International Version. There is also a verse in the book of Jude that talks about demons being bound with chains..
RD: It goes without saying that anyone bound with chains is certainly not going to be roaming about. Now, I don’t know if the chains mentioned by Jude or John, who wrote revelation, are literal or whether God is simply using images that would have been familiar to the audiences in the age when Jude and John wrote. But whether the chains are literal or not the language Jude and John used sends a very clear message that demons and people in hell are going to be confined. Will they be confined together or separately? We don’t know. But there is no Bible verse that indicates that the prisoners in hell will have the opportunity to be sharing their misery with one another.
VK: And those verses point out another thing. As you mentioned many people think that in hell Satan is the warden and the demons are the prison guards. But those verses from Revelation and Jude certainly don’t support that idea.
RD: No, they don’t. Let’s remember that hell was not originally intended for human beings.
VK: In the gospel of Matthew, chapter 25, verse 41, Jesus told His audience. “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.’” Jesus said that eternal fire of hell was prepared for the “devil and his demons.”
RD: So, hell was prepared for the devil and his demons. It was not established as a giant prison to hold people that would be operated by the devil and his demons. I’ve seen books written by people who supposedly had some kind of an after-life or out-of-body experience. One of them I read said that the writer had found themselves in hell before he was finally summoned to heaven. The problem was that his description of what he experienced was like most Hollywood productions portray hell and therefore inconsistent with the Bible. In his description he was in a cave like structure with individual cells that had iron bars on the doors. He had a grotesque, demonic-type being in his cell with him acting as a tormenter. There were many similar figures throughout the part of the prison he could see. These beings were all tormenting various humans and moving them around in corridors and larger chambers where more exquisite forms of pain were being inflicted.
VK: Sounds very Hollywoodish or like a childish sort of imaginary scene. Obviously, such a place would be very unpleasant. But the problem is that is, as you said, inconsistent with the Bible. In the real hell the demons are being tormented themselves. They are not the tormenters.
RD: Right. Satan and the demons hate people. They especially hate the redeemed – the Christians – but they don’t even like the people who claim to worship or serve them. Satan is the master of delusion and deception so he deceives some people into believing that if they somehow worship or serve him he is an ally or friend to them. He’s not. He may hate them a little less than he hates Christians but he still hates them because all people are created in the image of God – and Satan hates God most of all. Satan regards those who worship him as fools and tools.
VK: Fools and tools. Now there’s a phrase.
RD: But that’s exactly what he thinks of them. They’re fools because they trust him rather than trusting the Almighty God who would save them if they would just ask. And they are tools because he can use them to further his wicked ambitions. What they are not to Satan is friends. Satan has no friends and he doesn’t want any. He only wants subjects who will worship him. We saw that in his temptation of Christ.
VK: At any rate the point is that the demons are not in charge of hell or running the place. They are the imprisoned, confined occupants of hell. And they are in at least as much misery there as the people who wind up joining them. Hell and its eternal fire were prepared for them and they know it. That’s why the demons Jesus encountered displayed such a fear of Him commanding them to return to the abyss. Jude and John tell us that the demons are chained. So, chained beings are not chasing anyone around with pitchforks or whatever item the Hollywood prop master wants to put in their hands. Real demons are not masters in hell. They are just another group of miserable occupants. But I suppose that people will assert that the Biblical descriptions of hell are also imaginary – as is the concept of God and sin.
RD: They might but they would be in error if they did so and all denials of God’s existence are artificial and self-defeating.
VK: In fact we did an entire series on Anchored by Truth called “The Lord of Logic” where we addressed the 5 most common objections to God’s existence. In Lord of Logic we showed that all objections to God’s existence are logically indefensible. In other words they are unreasonable in a formal, logical sense. That series is available from our website crystalseabooks.com for anyone who wants to take a deeper dive into that subject.
RD: Yes. And Lord of Logic is a really good series for anyone who wants to assure themselves that their Christian faith is rock-solid not just from the standpoint of the assurance that it provides but also from the standpoint of withstanding any assaults that claim to be based on reason or evidence. But even if people don’t want to explore at the depths that we do in Lord of Logic there is another way that people can quickly determine that everything the Bible says about God, sin, and judgment is true.
VK: How is that?
RD: By thinking about one word: guilt. Guilt is God’s gift to man to assure us that He exists, that sin is real, and that there is a coming judgment.
VK: I’m not sure that most people would think of guilt as being a gift.
RD: But it is. Think about what the concept of guilt implies. For guilt to be present there must first of all be an offense. For an offense to occur there must be a law or standard that defines permissible behavior or activity. And for there to be a law or standard there must be a lawgiver or standard maker. And none of that would be perceptible if human beings did not possess the ability to understand the existence of laws or standards and the implications of violations.
VK: Dictionary.com defines guilt as “[1] the fact or state of having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, especially against moral or penal law; culpability, [and 2] a feeling of responsibility or remorse for some offense, crime, wrong, etc., whether real or imagined.” So, as you just stated for guilt to occur there must first be an offense or crime. And there wouldn’t be an offense or crime if there weren’t first a law or standard. This is sounding very similar to what the Apostle Paul said in Galatians, chapter 3, verse 24 where he said that the “law” was our tutor or guide to bring us to Christ. One translation calls the law our “school master.”
RD: Yes. All human beings, except perhaps some psychopaths, experience guilt. It is probably as universal a human phenomenon as we know about. Even people who deny the existence of God will acknowledge that they experience guilt. But without God what standards could exist that be so binding on their conscience that they would experience a feeling of remorse if they violate them.
VK: I suppose they might say that even if God doesn’t exist that there are laws or standards established by human communities that should govern us all – that these laws or standards are helpful and necessary to ensure harmony and stability in human society.
RD: Sure. They can say that. But that doesn’t answer the question about why peace, harmony, and stability are better than instability and chaos.
VK: Then they might say that peace, harmony, and stability are essential for survival – that human communities are stronger and survive better than an individual can on their own. They might say the impulse to seek peace is a part of “survival of the fittest.” The most harmonious societies are those that survive the best.
RD: And they can say that. But that doesn’t answer the question about why survival is superior to non-survival. Anyone who denies the existence of God is forced to fall back on evolution and deep-time as their explanation for why the world exists and appears as it does. But evolution essentially means that human beings are just the latest product in a long series of the random aggregation of unthinking atoms that happened to collect at one point in time. Well, if human beings are just the product of the random aggregation of atoms why would we think that the preservation of such random aggregations is better than the loss of such random aggregations. If evolution were true then survival is no better than non-survival because there is no basic standard that says it is.
VK: I see what you’re saying. The moment that we introduce the idea that one thing is better than another – that anything can be better or worse than something else – that process implies judgment against a standard by some entity that has the capability of understanding the standard, making a judgment, and then reacting to the results of the judgment. And there is simply no way that the random aggregation of atoms and molecules could create a meaningful standard much less impose that standard in an obligatory way on the other random aggregations of atoms and molecules.
RD: Exactly. The existence of an eternal, omnipotent, holy God that created a universe and populated it with creatures that possessed a portion of His attributes easily explains why that creature is intelligent and morally aware. But even if you could explain the existence of matter, energy, time, and space apart from God you can explain why impersonal material components can create intelligent beings that perceive moral and ethical verities and laws and can feel the weight of those verities and laws on them. And can then experience regret or remorse – guilt – when they fail to live up to the obligations that are imposed on us all.
VK: So, what you are saying is that when people deny the existence of God they undercut their ability to make any moral or ethical judgments at all. How can one random aggregation of atoms make an ethical judgment about other random aggregations of atoms? Yet, it is the people who deny God, especially those who deny the existence of the God of the Bible, who are now most prone to telling us how wrong we are when we display what they label as “intolerance.”
RD: Right. I think of them as being the “tolerance brigade.”
VK: The “tolerance brigade.” Again, there’s a phrase.
RD: The tolerance brigade is the group that goes around telling us that we must tolerate any behavior they find acceptable all while telling us that they do not have tolerate ideas and beliefs they don’t find acceptable.
VK: They judge and condemn others for what they perceive to be the crime of being judgmental and intolerant.
RD: Right. Tolerance as a proclaimed virtue is always hypocritical because tolerance condemns intolerance – which is itself intolerant. Tolerance is a virtue when guided by truth and transcendent values, but left to its own tolerance is just a club that betrays virtue and promotes all sorts of mischief. But the main point I want to emphasize here is that any discussion of what’s acceptable or unacceptable always involves the idea that we can distinguish between the acceptable and the unacceptable. If we can’t distinguish between those two then what’s the point of saying things like “I find that offensive.”
VK: And you hear that a lot these day. When the tolerance brigade wants to get their own way they will often tell us that we are being offensive if we say that certain behavior is sinful and that that behavior will result in condemnation to hell. But they can’t tell us that sin and hell are offensive ideas if they don’t accept the idea that it is possible for an offense to occur. And, as you’ve pointed out, without mandatory standards of behavior that apply to people then committing an offense or crime isn’t possible.
RD: Right. An offense is different from a preference. Somebody may prefer broccoli more than green beans but someone choosing to serve one or the other isn’t an offense. But somebody who steals their neighbor’s property has offended their neighbor because there is a transcendent standard that says that that behavior is not acceptable. Deny God and you deny the possibility of their being transcendent standards. One of the big problems which is well known is that philosophies like pantheism do away with a meaningful distinction between good and evil. But we all know good and evil exist. And we all know that certain things are right and certain things are wrong. When we choose to do things that are wrong or fail to choose to do things that are good then we are committing sin. And we know when we are sinning because we will feel guilty. We may deny we feel guilt but our denials don’t do away with the guilt and the overwhelming majority of the time the denial doesn’t do away with the feelings.
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that human beings all have an internal way to validate the external reality of God, sin, and judgment. We all feel guilt at some points in our lives. That guilt may be reasonable or unreasonable but even unreasonable guilt still tells us that we have a facility for knowing that some things are right and others wrong. And that we have an obligation to do the right things and avoid the wrong. We may not like this reality but as we have often said on Anchored by Truth our preferences don’t change reality. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for the Holy Spirit who is the Person within the Trinity that Jesus told us would guide us to a knowledge of the truth. The truth is that sin and hell are real but there is a greater truth that Jesus came to save us from our sins and keep us from experiencing the horrors of hell. The fallen angels, the demons that rebelled against God, made an eternal election in their rebellion. But as long as we are in these bodies we can still make a choice that the demons cannot. We can choose to let Christ be our Advocate and represent us before the throne of judgment. And with Christ as our Advocate our salvation is assured.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (MARCUS)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the King James Bible)
Proverbs, Chapter 28, verse 1, King James Bible

Episode 226 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 5 – The First Sin
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The LORD said to the man, “You listened to your wife and ate the fruit I told you not to eat.
Genesis, Chapter 3, verse 17, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. Thank you for joining us today on Anchored by Truth as we continue to pursue a very important discussion series we call “The Seriousness of Sin.” We’re doing this series because sin is a “real and present” danger to our lives and eternal salvation. Many people today try to resist that thought or even deny it all together but that doesn’t affect the reality that we are all sinners in need of a Savior. If we confess our sin the Apostle John tells that “he is faithful and just to forgive our sin.” But if we deny our sin it still remains with us and it puts us in eternal danger. In the studio today to help us grapple with what are, admittedly, hard truths we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, for the first few episodes of this series we have been considering the danger that sin poses to the eternal destiny of men. But you said that today you want to switch perspectives. What do you have in mind?
RD: Well, in our first few episodes in this “Seriousness of Sin” series we’ve looked at sin from man’s standpoint. We have been looking at the stakes of sin for people – about the consequences on this earth when we commit sin and the eternal consequences we would face if we do not accept Christ as our Savior. One of the truly amazing things about accepting Christ is that doing so inaugurates a cosmic transaction that is almost beyond belief. The sinner gets Christ’s righteousness in exchange for Christ getting (having borne) the consequences of our sin.
VK: As you say in your book The Prodigal’s Advocate the Christian faith is not fair. But the person it’s not fair to is Jesus. Jesus lived a sinless life but died for the sins of others. We live sinful lives but when we accept Christ’s sacrifice for us we will enjoy rewards that we did not earn for all eternity. God would have been perfectly just to condemn everyone who has rebelled against Him to eternal punishment but He didn’t. God made a way for us to be redeemed but it cost God an immeasurable amount – an amount no human being will ever fully understand.
RD: Right. So, we’ve been looking at the seriousness of sin from the standpoint of how sin affects us as individuals – our lives, our futures, our salvation. And it is serious. But today I want to take a look at the broader consequences of sin – because remember that the entire Bible is a single story about the saga of creation, fall, and redemption. The creation and fall take up the first 3 chapters of the first book of the Bible. The other 47 chapters of Genesis and the other 65 books of the Bible are the story of redemption.
VK: And without the first sin in the garden the story of redemption never would have been necessary.
RD: Correct. RC Sproul used to say that “sin is cosmic treason.” That means then that there are two sides to the sin transaction. There is man’s side.
VK: And there is God’s side. You know we tend to forget that. I mean we know that our sin can injure other people like when a drunk driver runs into another car that just happens to be in the drunk’s path. The other driver is a victim of the sin. But if we commit “cosmic treason” we have also offended God. That reminds me of Psalm 51, verses 3 and 4 where King David wrote: “I know about my sins, and I cannot forget the burden of my guilt. You are really the one I have sinned against; I have disobeyed you and have done wrong. So it is right and fair for you to correct and punish me.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version. David wrote Psalm 51 after he had an adulterous night with Bathsheba. David then tricked his army commander, Joab, into getting Bathsheba’s husband Uriah killed during a battle. So, David had clearly injured Bathsheba and Uriah. Yet he wrote to God that God was the one he had really sinned against.
RD: Yep. All sins, whether they have a specific human victim or not, are offenses against an Almighty God. Now God is certainly in a different category than a human victim.
VK: Because God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and everlasting and all.
RD: Right. God is not like a human being who can suffer when we sin against them. God is more like a king whose subject has offended them or a parent whose child has injured them. God is not damaged per se but God is definitely offended. And God who, in addition to being omnipotent and omniscient, is also perfectly just holy cannot let intentional offenses go un-redressed. So, when we start taking a look at God’s side of the transaction we can see even more clearly how serious sin really is.
VK: Now, we live a world where sin abounds even in our lives. We are so used to sin we sometimes don’t even notice anymore. It’s like walking in your house and noticing a musty smell. Stay there long enough and eventually your nose gets used to it.
RD: Yes. We have been desensitized to sin because as sinners it feels familiar. And living in a world of sin we don’t know any difference. As somebody once said, “if a man falls in the water he knows he’s wet because that’s not his natural state. Same thing with a dog or cat. A dog or cat that gets wet will shake off the water as soon as it gets a chance. But a fish doesn’t know it’s wet because it’s wet all the time. Being wet is a fish’s natural state. So, a fish doesn’t notice the wetness.”
VK: And, living as we do thousands of years after the fall, sin is now our natural state. In effect, we have become immersed in sin. Not only do we sin but we are surrounded by sin. And especially in the western cultures sin is actively pushed in just about every medium possible. Advertisers routinely use blatantly sinful images and appeals in their commercials. So-called entertainment producers feature and glamorize sin in movies, tv shows, music, and books. The old advertising slogan was that “sex sells” so sex has become a staple of the images that surround us constantly. Schools, government meetings, and even churches have become hotbeds, no pun intended, of the proliferation of sin. We are so immersed in sin that now we really only notice the “big” sins – robberies, murder, adultery, child pornography etc. Far too many of us have given up the effort to shake off our sins.
RD: Yes. But it was not always that way. In Genesis, chapter 1, verse 31, God surveyed everything He had created and pronounced that it was “very good.” God couldn’t have and wouldn’t have called creation very good if sin existed in that world at that time.
VK: But then we come to Genesis, chapter 3, and that’s where we here the description of the first sin – Adam and Eve eating from the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And in our opening scripture we heard about God confronting Adam and Eve after they committed the first sin. You know it is interesting. God didn’t confront Adam and Eve immediately after they committed that sin. He didn’t immediately send a booming voice from heaven shouting “what did you just do” the way my mother would have. According to verses 7 and 8 of Genesis, chapter 3, “At once [Adam and Eve] saw what they had done, and they realized they were naked. Then they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. Late in the afternoon, when the breeze began to blow, the man and woman heard the LORD God walking in the garden. So they hid behind some trees.” So, God waited some time before confronting them. Why did He do that?
RD: Well, probably for a lot of reasons but I think one was that God let them marinate in their misery before He confronted them. During that interval they obviously had a growing awareness that they had really messed up. I might go so far as to say God was giving them a chance to think about the “seriousness” of their sin.
VK: Oh. I see what you did there. And now I see why you named this series “The Seriousness of Sin.”
RD: God was like a smart earthly parent. He let Adam and Eve begin to develop a real appreciation for what they had done - because the consequences of that first sin of Adam and Eve were truly beyond their comprehension or the comprehension of any subsequent person. And that’s what I want to contemplate for the rest of this episode and probably the next episode of Anchored by Truth as well. And in our discussion we are really only going to be skimming the surface of the consequences of that first sin – because they were really serious. Let’s start by noting that as a result of that first sin death entered the created order.
VK: The book of Romans, chapter 5, verse 17 tells us that “For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many.” That’s the New Living Translation. Just as we live in a world where sin is so commonplace that we often don’t see it around us, we live in a world where death is so commonplace that we rarely think about the fact that death is an intruder in our creation.
RD: Right. There was no death in the created order that God pronounced “very good.” Death entered creation as a consequence of that first sin. And not just death for men and women, but death for the animals as well.
VK: In Genesis, chapter 3, verse 21 we hear, “And the LORD God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and his wife.” The first death recorded in scripture was the death of an innocent animal. This was a foretaste of the sacrificial system to come.
RD: So, one immediate consequence of that first sin was death and death has present within the created order ever since. Now death is not a permanent part of creation but it is a present part of the creation.
VK: The Apostle Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, verse 26 that “The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” One day death will just be a distant memory for the redeemed. But it will be an ever present reality for the unredeemed.
RD: The kind of death with which we are so familiar was one consequence of that first sin. No sin. No death. Death came quickly for the animals that God used to make the first clothing for Adam and Eve. And while physical death did not occur for some time for Adam and Eve, at that moment they died spiritually and their eventual physical death became a certainty. Adam lived for a total of 930 years which is a really long time to us, but his death had been assured from the moment he and Eve committed the first sin.
VK: So, what did Adam and Eve’s spiritual death look like?
RD: It’s probably impossible for us to know how they perceived the change within themselves but there are a few things we can say for certain because we are all born “spiritually dead.”
VK: That’s Ephesians, chapter 2, verses 1 and 2. Paul writes to the Ephesians “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”
RD: Right. Some people question whether Paul is trying to be dramatic when he tells the Ephesians that they were “dead in [their] transgressions and sins” but as one theologian used to say “dead does not mean a little alive.” Well, clearly the recipients of Paul’s letter weren’t physically dead – otherwise they wouldn’t have been reading any letters. But they were spiritually dead before the Holy Spirit began His regenerating work. So, let’s think about this for a second. Death is a form of alienation or separation. In fact, it’s the most dramatic form of separation. Now, as we have said before on Anchored by Truth we can distinguish between two things without separating them.
VK: We can distinguish between the soul and spirit and the body and we haven’t done any harm. But if we separate the soul and spirit from the body we have killed them. Now, that’s pretty serious.
RD: Yes. So, when Adam and Eve committed that first sin a separation, an alienation, occurred. They didn’t die physically so their souls and spirits weren’t separated from their bodies but they did break their previously unbroken communion with God.
VK: We know that because when God first called out to them after they sinned they tried to hide themselves.
RD: Exactly. From the context of the story we know that God had previously walked through the garden with some kind of a physical manifestation and that Adam and Eve were accustomed to His presence. But now they hid themselves.
VK: And people have been trying to hide their sin ever since.
RD: But of course it is futile to try to hide from an omnipresent being. Adam and Eve’s consciousness of their guilt had produced a change in them. They had lost the ability to have a continuous, intimate connection with Almighty God. So, one thing we can say for sure about the spiritual death they experienced was that it produced a change in their emotional state – in their feelings – in how they felt about God and in how they felt about themselves.
VK: Genesis, chapter 3, verses 7 through 10 say this. “At once [Adam and Eve] saw what they had done, and they realized they were naked. Then they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. Late in the afternoon, when the breeze began to blow, the man and woman heard the LORD God walking in the garden. So they hid behind some trees. The LORD God called out to the man and asked, “Where are you?” The man answered, “I was naked, and when I heard you walking through the garden, I was frightened and hid!”
RD: Yes. After their sin Adam and Eve began to experience shame and fear. Before the sin they had lived in perfect contentment, harmony, and peace. But they lost all that. They felt guilt, dismay, remorse, and regret for the first time. So, their spiritual death produced an emotional change within them. And, as we well know, in the human body changed emotions result in physiological changes.
VK: When we get scared our hearts pump faster. Our bodies produce various chemicals like cortisol as part of what is labeled “the fight or flight” response. We can start to tremble or shake when we get strong emotions and it’s not uncommon for people to get dizzy, confused, or even faint in times of extreme stress. The point is while Adam and Eve’s souls and spirits had not yet separated from their bodies (they were still physically alive) they immediately began to experience some of the unpleasant physical sensations that would remain them for the rest of their physical lives – and that they might very well experience as they were approaching physical death.
RD: Yes. We need to guard against the temptation to believe that even though Adam and Eve did not die physically immediately that somehow they didn’t know a massive change had taken place. They, more than any other people in humanity’s history, would have known the difference between perfect peace and joy and the shame, terror, guilt, and pain that sin produces. Adam and Eve clearly noticed the change. The text tells us so. But in addition to the emotional change that came because of their spiritual death, they also experienced what is often termed “the noetic effect of sin.”
VK: According to an article on the website for the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry, carm.org, “The noetic effect of sin is the effect upon the mind. The Greek word for “mind” is “nous.” Therefore, ‘noetic’ deals with the mind, or the rational aspect of the person. This effect means that our reasoning abilities are no longer pure and proper all the time. But, it does not mean we will always reason improperly. We can think rationally, use mathematics, make proper judgments, etc. But, as is obvious, there are many false religions in the world that are believed and defended intellectually. So, the noetic effect of sin upon the mind … manifests itself in the belief of false gods, false Christ, false gospels, etc. When sin entered the world … our minds were corrupted. … the result [is] spiritual blindness and, ultimately, irrationality.”
RD: So, that first sin didn’t just affect Adam and Eve’s emotions, it also affected their minds – and those effects were passed down to all of their descendants – which, of course, include us. Many theologians speculate that Adam and Eve had a form of perfect knowledge before the fall. They were not omniscient. They were not all knowing. Only God is omniscient. But their knowledge of everything in their world was clear and untainted. They knew every tree, every animal, and how to properly care for them. And their thought processes weren’t affected by fatigue, irritation, frustration, or so many other things that affect us. They could reason clearly and arrive at the correct conclusion all the time. They would have scored 100 on every test they were given. But they lost all that with the fall.
VK: I see what you’re saying. Even today as we try to contemplate what the effects of that first sin were we can only have an imperfect understanding because we still suffer from that loss of perfect reasoning. We do the best that we can, but there is no way for our minds to be free of the effects of the fall.
RD: Exactly. We all still suffer the noetic effect of sin just as we all still experience the negative emotions that we see exhibited in Adam and Eve after they sinned. That is one of the ways we can be so sure that the Bible is conveying literal history when it describes the fall. The Bible provides a clear, coherent explanation for why we are the way we are – why we experience guilt, anger, confusion, and fear. If we were all just random aggregations of molecules those emotions would have no more meaning to us that a flower experiences when a rock falls on it.
VK: So, what you are saying is that even though Adam and Eve didn’t die physically the spiritual death they experienced had real and immediate consequences for their lives. They experienced real loss and a real change.
RD: Right. And the entrance of death into creation, and Adam and Eve’s immediate spiritual death was only the beginning of the consequences of that first sin. And we will continue this discussion more in our next episode of Anchored by Truth. But there is at least one other topic I want to introduce before we close for today.
VK: Which is?
RD: Some people will ask “why is this discussion of the seriousness of sin so important?”
VK: I’m sure some people would wonder that.
RD: And a partial answer is that if we don’t understand the seriousness of sin we cannot properly appreciate grace. Just as we are immersed in sin and so hardly notice it, the church today is so familiar with grace and mercy that we can easily take it for granted.
VK: In Shakespeare’s famous words “familiarity breeds contempt.”
RD: Right. Those in the church are so used to the availability of grace we can forget why it is amazing. When we forget what Adam and Eve lost, what they gave away, we have a diminished appreciation for what Jesus did when he came to repair the consequences of sin for us. No one alive today has yet reaped the full benefits of Jesus’ transaction on our behalf. The damage to our emotions and the noetic effects of sin impact our ability to full comprehend all that Jesus did. But we should at least try. We don’t want to be like the ungrateful guests at the feast who eat heartily but have no regard for the effort that went into preparing the feast. And there are other reasons we should carefully contemplate the seriousness of sin. Sin is the biggest impediment to spiritual maturity and therefore spiritual power. We hear a lot by some ministers about how to exercise spiritual power. But one sure way to destroy any spiritual power we might hope to possess is to not understand the seriousness of sin, the enormity of the destruction that Adam and Eve produced when they ate the forbidden fruit, and therefore the magnitude of the grace that God extended when He sent Jesus to remedy the effects of the fall.
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that to properly understand the seriousness of sin we must look at where sin started and look at it from God’s perspective – as best we can – as well as our own. The first sin in the garden had a multitude of consequences. None of them good. The first consequence was the admission of death into a creation that had been very good. That was only the first effect and we’ll get into more in our next episode of Anchored by Truth. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for children who will shortly be beginning a new school year. And let’s remember that today many schools may be passing along the sinful messages of the broader culture and parents may need to prayerfully consider whether a change is necessary. As one guest on Anchored by Truth has said, “the mission is not to get our kids into college, it’s to get them into heaven.”
---- PRAYER FOR CHILDREN STARTING SCHOOL (RANNI)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)
Genesis, Chapter 3, verse 17, Contemporary English Version

What is the noetic effect of sin? What is the effect of sin on the mind? (carm.org)
The Noetic Effects of Sin | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Episode 227 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 6 – The First Sin Continues Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script: The LORD said to the man, “…the ground will be under a curse because of what you did. As long as you live, you will have to struggle to grow enough food. Genesis, Chapter 3, verse 17, Contemporary English Version

******** VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re so happy that you are able to join us today on Anchored by Truth as we continue with the series we are calling “The Seriousness of Sin.” Thus far in this series we have seen that despite the world’s desire to deny the reality of sin the denials are always unsuccessful. The world can deny that sin exists but they cannot escape the consequences of its existence. As he has been throughout this series, to help us continue to think through hard truths that accompany sin’s existence we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, how can we all be sure for ourselves that sin exists? RD: People can readily determine that everything the Bible says about God, sin, and judgment is true for themselves by thinking about one word. Guilt. As we mentioned in one episode guilt is God’s gift to man to assure us that He exists, that sin is real, and that there is a coming judgment. VK: For most people the emotion of guilt is not very pleasant and it can produce all kinds of very unpleasant sensations and even painful behavior. Most people probably don’t think of guilt as being a gift from God. RD: But it is. Think about what the concept of guilt implies. For guilt to be present there must first of all be an offense. For an offense to occur there must be a law or standard that defines permissible behavior or activity. And for there to be a law or standard there must be a lawgiver or standard maker. And none of that would be perceptible if human beings did not possess the ability to understand the existence of laws or standards and the implications of violations. So, guilt assures us that somewhere there is a lawgiver who has established standards so pervasive that when we violate them we have a keen awareness that we have violated them. None of that would be possible if we were all just the result of the random collision of inanimate bits of matter. VK: Guilt is an emotion experienced by a personal being who isn’t just aware of their environment but also aware of moral and ethical obligations. Lesser animals can and do respond to stimuli in their environments including emotional stimuli. Your pet dog or cat can detect when you are happy or sad and can even act to provide a comforting response. But your pet does not know whether you are sad because a friend of yours just died or you’re miserable because you just got caught breaking the law and now you’re facing the consequences. But another person can know and can understand the difference. Another person shares the awareness that we all have moral and ethical obligations. We may try to deny that we do but even the denial is self-defeating. If the obligation isn’t there what would be the point of denying it? RD: Right. Moral and ethical obligations to which we are all subject are real. So is the fact that we all fail to live up to those obligations. We are all aware of the obligations and we are all aware of our failure. Guilt is the consequence of that awareness. Guilt is therefore evidence of sin because sin is our failure to honor the obligations that our Creator has established for us. We can deny the Creator. We can deny the obligations. But what we can’t deny successfully is the experience of guilt. VK: And guilt has been present ever since the first sin in the Garden of Eden. Chapter 3 of Genesis is clear that Adam and Eve immediately experienced regret which is why they tried to cover themselves and subsequently hide from God. Guilt is the awareness of wickedness within us. Adam and Eve hid just as Proverbs, chapter 28, verse 1 says. “The wicked flee though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion.” Adam and Eve fled from God’s presence even before God pursued them. RD: Correct. The introduction of guilt in their minds was one of the consequences of that first sin but, of course, there were many other consequences. In our last episode we talked about the fact that the introduction of death into the created order was another of the consequences of that first sin. VK: And that episode of Anchored by Truth is available from our website, crystalseabooks.com as are all of the episodes of Anchored by Truth. RD: But death and guilt were by no means the only consequences of that first sin. VK: And that’s what we want to spend some time discussing today – some of those other consequences of the first sin. So, what is another of those consequences? RD: Well, we heard about two of the other consequences of the first sin in our opening scripture – man’s labor, man’s work was cursed and even the ground, the created order was cursed because of that sin. VK: We have been living in a “sin-stained” world for so long that it’s hard to remember sometime that work was not always a burden to people. When Adam and Eve were first placed in the garden they were given the job of tending it. Tending the garden was their work, their job. But, initially, their work was not cursed. Their work was for them as God’s work was for Him when He created the heavens and the earth and shaped everything to be suitable for mankind. God is creative and productive and He created people to be creative and productive. But the burdensome nature of work did not arrive until after Adam and Eve sinned. We see that in God’s pronouncement to our first parents that “As long as you live, you will have to struggle to grow enough food.” Before the first sin Adam and Eve could eat freely from the trees in the garden except from one tree. After the first sin they now had to struggle to get enough food. RD: Yes. So, we see that it makes sense that God cursed the “ground” as well as man’s labor. If the ground, the created order, had remained the same it would have continued to supply the same fruit and other food as before. And it’s not hard to see that would easily have contributed to man being able to multiply his sin, his rebellion, even further. VK: I am reminded of one of the verses from one of your poems, The Genesis Saga. One of the stanzas in The Genesis Saga says, “Fertile soil [that] had been so friendly now brought forth noxious weed. Only by sweat of weary brow would man be able to feed.” I love that phrase – “noxious weed.” What you are saying is that if the ground had not started bringing forth, in the words of Genesis, chapter 3, verse 18, “thorns and thistles” Adam and Eve would have had a lot more free time on their hands. Anyone who has ever tried to grow a garden knows how much time and effort it takes to control the weeds. RD: Exactly. Part of the reason God made Adam have to spend more time supplying their food was because that reduced the amount of time and energy he would have on mischief. And those patterns continue today thousands of years later. Think about it. It is very hard to get tomatoes, peppers, beans, corn, etc. to grow to maturity and be suitable for food. But it takes no effort whatsoever for weeds to cover every vacant inch of ground in a yard, or park, or forest. Why is that? Why is it so hard to grow food crops but it takes no effort for weeds, thorns, and thistles to come forth? No one cultivates weeds yet they appear everywhere. The ground bringing forth noxious plants without any encouragement as does the need for man to struggle to produce enough food to sustain people. Genesis, chapter 3, provides a very clear explanation for why that is true. VK: And we see this awareness of the cursed nature of creation continued in other parts of scripture. For instance, in Romans, chapter 8, verse 22 the Apostle Paul writes, “We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.” We know that this idea is objectionable to our contemporary society but the entire fabric and operation of our world is entirely consistent with scripture. The fact that God cursed the ground so Adam and Eve would have to struggle for their daily existence would certainly have limited their time for – as you said – mischief. But it would also have limited their energy for mischief. Just about every person who transitions into adulthood realizes that one reason your lifestyle changes is that it takes a lot of energy to hold down a job, manage a house, and put meals on the table. So, in a way God’s curse on the ground was part of God’s plan of redemption – to limit sin and to promote man’s dependence on God. RD: Yes. And God’s curse on the ground also had another benefit for man. Hard work is the best physical fitness program there is. In an agrarian society - which is certainly what existed in Adam’s time - growing food, building shelters, making tools, caring for animals was hard physical labor. That would have helped Adam, Eve, and their children stay in good physical condition. VK: I see where you are going. Before the first sin death didn’t exist in the created order. So, in a certain sense, Adam and Eve didn’t have to worry about their health. But that changed when death became a part of their world. Now things could go wrong with their bodies. So, they needed to be concerned that would never have troubled them before sin. RD: Exactly. Despite the claims by some popular pop-culture preachers we really have no idea what Adam and Eve looked like. It’s reasonable to believe that before the first sin they were the best possible specimens of the human beings possible. Though many do, it is useless to speculate about their size, skin color, eye and hair color, etc. They were probably beautiful insofar as our standards of human beauty were concerned but we have no idea what their actual appearance was. But we can, I think, be fairly sure that they were very physically fit and their bodies were healthy initially. This is before many pollutants and contaminants entered the world, before bacteria and viruses had mutated into causing sickness, and before genetic mutations in their own DNA had started posing problems. VK: Well, according to Genesis, chapter 5, verses 3 and 4 Adam did live to be 930 years old. That’s a pretty good run – especially by our standards. RD: Right. So, Adam and Eve would have been healthy initially. But if they didn’t have to work physically to supply their needs, that could have changed pretty quickly. Imagine how most of us would look if we had all the food we wanted available at no cost and didn’t have to do any work to get it. VK: So, by cursing the ground God was actually teaching Adam and Eve some valuable lessons – lessons that we’re necessarily pleasant ones but things they needed to know for the future they had created for themselves by sinning. RD: So, a couple of immediate consequences of that first sin was that work was now cursed and the ground by which food would be produced was also cursed. In time that would have produced other impacts on Adam and Eve. VK: Like blisters, sore backs, aching knees, bruises, scrapes, etc. That wouldn’t have been any fun for people used to living in a paradise whether nothing could hurt them. RD: No it wouldn’t. So, the consequences of that first sin were going to continue to multiply as time went by. But another immediate consequence of the first sin was Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the Garden of Eden. And, believe it or not, that was necessary for God’s plan of redemption. VK: Why is that? RD: Because the Bible tells us that “the wages of sin is death.” Said differently, ultimately for restoration and redemption to be possible Adam and Eve’s rebellion against God was going to have to be punished by death. We had the first hint of what was coming when the first innocent animals were killed to make clothing for Adam and Eve. VK: That’s Genesis, chapter 3, verse 21 which says “Then the LORD God made clothes out of animal skins for the man and his wife.” It’s important to note that even from the beginning God initiated the sacrifices that would be necessary to redeem man. God sacrificed one of His animals that He had made to make clothes for the people who had sinned. God had made the animals. The animals that were sacrificed belong to God not Adam and Eve. So, God took the first action to remediate sin and made the first sacrifice. This is a strong statement that salvation originates with God and is completed by God. Man is the beneficiary, but salvation from first to last is an activity of God’s. RD: Right. So, God making the first clothes for Adam and Eve was a foretaste of what was to come. Death was going to be a necessity to cover Adam and Eve’s sin. Ultimately it was going to have to be the death of God’s anointed Son who was going to have to be able to represent man as well as God. That’s why Jesus had to come in the flesh to make the final, perfect sacrifice for sin. But Jesus couldn’t have died if Adam and Eve had remained in the Garden. VK: We learn that from verses 22 through 24 of Genesis, chapter 3. Those verses say, “The LORD said, ‘They now know the difference between right and wrong, just as we do. But they must not be allowed to eat fruit from the tree that lets them live forever.’ So the LORD God sent them out of the Garden of Eden, where they would have to work the ground from which the man had been made. Then God put winged creatures at the entrance to the garden and a flaming, flashing sword to guard the way to the life-giving tree.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version. If Adam and Eve had remained in the Garden of Eden and eaten from the Tree of Life they could not have experienced physical death. In effect, they would have lived perpetually in their sinful state – estranged from God because spiritual death had come upon them. But the fact that they were expelled from the garden and would experience a physical death meant that physical death would also be possible for their descendants – including the One who would die an atoning death to save His people from their sin. RD: Yes. So, God expelling Adam and Eve from the Garden that contained the Tree of Life was a necessary step in the plan of redemption. They would experience a physical death for their own sin. But their far distant descendant would experience a physical death for the sins of others because Jesus had no sins of His own. No other human being could ever atone for the sins of anyone else because as Romans, chapter 3, verse 23 says, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Everyone but Jesus dies for their own sins. Jesus committed no sin. So, in the plan of God which had existed before the foundation of the world Jesus could offer to die for the sins of others. VK: It’s important to remember that we are only still talking about the consequences of the first sin. We rarely stop and think about the enormous price that has been paid just because of that one sin. Death entered the created order because of the first sin. Man’s labor was cursed because of the first sin. The ground, the created order itself, was cursed because of the first sin. And the first sin set in motion a plan that would someday require the death of God’s only Son, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, in order to redeem fallen sinners and creation. This is a staggering price when you think about it. RD: Which is exactly why we wanted to do this “Seriousness of Sin” series. We rarely think about all of the consequences that attach to sin. But in the next few episodes we are going to take a look at other examples from the Bible that God has given us to tell us how seriously God takes sin – examples such as the flood described in chapter 6 through 9 of Genesis and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. VK: But before we close for today are there any other consequences that you want to point out that resulted from that first sin. RD: Well, so far we’ve talked about the entrance of death into the created order, the curses that God put on the ground and on man’s labor to produce food, and the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Eden. And even though we’ve covered these consequences I want to point out that we have done so quickly because we only have so much time in our broadcast and podcast episodes. But there is a great deal more that could be said about what happened as a result of that first sin. From a purely physical standpoint we can see that pain, illness, and disease entered creation as a result of that first sin. From an intellectual and emotional standpoint we can see that worry, misery, and guilt came from that first sin. VK: And all those sad consequences weren’t limited to mankind. Initially men and all the animals were to live on a vegetarian diet. In Genesis, chapter 1, verses 29 and 30 God said to Adam, “I have provided all kinds of fruit and grain for you to eat. And I have given the green plants as food for everything else that breathes, including animals, both wild and tame, and birds. And so it was.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version. But, as time went by, all that changed. Animals eventually began to kill and eat other animals and after the worldwide flood God told Noah that certain animals were now suitable food for people. So, a world initially at peace became a world filled with violence and aggression. RD: Yes. It’s accurate to say that everything in the physical creation changed as a consequence of that first sin. But things also changed in the spiritual realm as well. In ways that we probably can’t fully comprehend that first sin probably made it possible for Satan and the demons to have increased access to this creation and especially to people. At a minimum that first sin certainly opened the door to increased warfare between humans and the demonic order. VK: Well, Genesis, chapter 3, verse 15 does record God speaking to Satan and saying, “Because you have done this, I will put enmity (open hostility) Between you and the woman, And between your seed (offspring) and her Seed; He shall [fatally] bruise your head, And you shall [only] bruise His heel.” So, God tells us that because of the first sin he was going to put hostility between people and Satan and his followers. There are many passages in the Bible such as Ephesians, chapter 6, verse 12 that tell us about the war. That verse says, “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this [present] darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) places.” Both of those verses are from the Amplified Bible. RD: Scholars debate when the angelic order, which includes the holy angels as well as the demons, was created. It seems highly likely that the angels were in existence before humans and we can be certain that Satan had already fallen before he encountered Eve. But note that Satan’s temptation to Eve came from the outside. Satan spoke to Eve using some kind of language. But later in the Bible we have clear descriptions of demons being able to “possess” people – meaning the demons now have the ability to interact with people’s minds and emotions rather than being limited to acting outside of them. Demons can now tempt people from the inside rather than just the outside. We don’t have any information about the mechanics of how that happened but that change certainly followed the first sin. VK: And, if nothing else, it seems quite likely that the pace of warfare between the holy angels and the demons likely escalated after the first sin. Certainly, the remainder of the Bible contains descriptions of confrontations within the angelic realm that are tied to actions occurring on earth. The book of Revelation is filled with descriptions of things occurring in heaven that are tied to events taking place on earth. And Daniel, chapter 10 contains a description of an angelic messenger that was sent to Daniel but was held up for 21 days by a demon who is described as “the prince of the kingdom of Persia.” Many scholars think that both the demons and the angels seem to have special spheres of authority for parts of earth. The archangel Michael seems to have, or at least had, some special responsibility for Israel. RD: So, that first sin didn’t just affect things on the earth. It also affected the heavenly realm. We can’t know what would have happened if Adam and Eve had resisted temptation but we can be very sure that profound changes occurred throughout earth and heaven because of the first choice to disobey God. Such is the seriousness of sin. Satan’s sin had apparently compromised the harmony of heaven before he came into the garden. Adam and Eve had a chance to avoid importing that conflict into the physical creation but they didn’t. They drew Satan’s spirit of rebellion into a cosmos that had been created pure and good. Sin compromised the peace and harmony of this earth just as it had previously compromised the perfect peace of heaven. We rarely think about sin’s tendrils but the plain fact is that sin is never just an isolated act without repercussions. As we will see in our next few episodes sin is a viral contagion that once it occurs sweeps multitudes to destruction. The first sin did that. All sin does that. That’s why we need to seek the Lord’s power to quench sin in our own lives. VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduced last time and continued today is that to properly understand the seriousness of sin we must look at where sin started. The first sin in the garden had a multitude of consequences, none of them good. The first consequence was the admission of death into a creation that had been very good. That was followed by curses on work and the land and the expulsion of Adam and Eve from paradise. And the effects of that first sin continued to ripple outward reaching even into the heavenly realm. Sin is serious. We must acknowledge sin as being serious if we ever want to be able to effectively combat it in our own lives. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for the Creator God who originated a very good creation and one day will restore its perfection. The restored creation will then remain untainted by sin for all eternity and everyone who has accepted Christ as their Savior will live in that eternally blessed land. ---- PRAYER FOR ADORATION OF THE CREATOR (GWEN) VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!” (Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version) Genesis, Chapter 3, verse 17, Contemporary English Version

What is the noetic effect of sin? What is the effect of sin on the mind? (carm.org) The Noetic Effects of Sin | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Episode 228 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 7 – A Flood of Sin
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
Genesis, Chapter 6, verse 5, New International Version

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. If this is your first visit with Anchored by Truth we want you to know that Anchored by Truth has a single focus – to restore a widespread understanding that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God. For thousands of years God has guided His people with His special revelation. Those cultures and communities that have embraced His guidance have been blessed. Those who have rejected it have suffered. And while many in our culture think that they may safely dismiss the Bible’s transcendent truth they are wrong and our society is paying the price. That’s why we’re so happy that you are able to join us today on Anchored by Truth. We’re in the midst of a series we call “The Seriousness of Sin.” Thus far in this series we have talked about both the current and eternal consequences of sin, the reality and nature of hell and, most recently, the enormous consequences of the first sin in the Garden of Eden. As he has been throughout this series, to help us continue to think through hard truths that accompany sin’s existence, we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, in our last two episodes of Anchored by Truth we talked about the consequences that arose because of that first sin in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. And today you want to point to another Biblical illustration of how seriously God treats sin. Where are we going today?
RD: We are going to move forward in the book of Genesis and look at possibly the second most serious consequence of sin described in the Bible – the flood in Noah’s time.
VK: Why do you say the 2nd most serious consequence of sin? Seems like a flood that wiped out all the people, birds, and land animals except for those on the ark is about as bad as it gets.
RD: Because without a doubt the most serious consequence of sin in all of history – the most serious consequence possible – was the death of God’s only Son on the cross. The flood of Noah was about as serious as it gets on this earth, but the implications of Jesus’ death on the cross transcended space and time.
VK: Well, the Gospel of Mark, chapter 15, verse 33 does say, “Then at three o’clock Jesus called out with a loud voice, … ‘My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?’” That is a fascinating verse of scripture. Jesus was God incarnate. How could God incarnate be abandoned by anyone much less someone He would address as “my God?” As you said the implications of the transaction that took place on the cross boggle the mind.
RD: Right. As many Bible commentators have noted at that moment on the cross heaven and earth were once again connected by the Divine Being that had created both. Every sin committed by every human being was committed on earth. Yet every sin has heavenly implications because all sin is rebellion against a God who presides over heaven and earth. Jesus was both fully divine as well as fully human. He had to be fully divine for his death to be of infinite value. When a human sins against God they sin against an infinite Being incurring an infinite debt. A finite person can never pay an infinite debt.
VK: Which is why finite people when they are consigned to hell must remain there eternally. Their punishment lasts eternally because they are there to pay an infinite debt. But they can’t. Only a being of infinite value can pay an infinite death. Because Jesus was fully divine as well as fully human His sacrifice was fully sufficient to satisfy our sin debt to God. When we place our trust in Jesus God applies Jesus’ righteousness to our account. It’s similar to an accounting transaction on earth. You or I may owe a debt that we cannot pay. Then our father walks into the office, takes out his wallet, and says “how much do my children owe?” It doesn’t matter how much we owe because when we accept Jesus as our Savior our Heavenly Father looks at Jesus’ account instead of ours. Jesus’ sacrifice is credited to our account. That’s why it is so important for us to engage in that transaction while there is still time.
RD: Correct. Jesus paid the infinite sin debt that we owed when He died on the cross for all those who place their trust in Him. So, in terms of value, nothing can exceed the value of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. But, to get back to the topic of our series, the seriousness of sin, Jesus’ sacrifice would have been unnecessary if man had not sinned. That’s why we have to take note that the most serious consequence of sin was that it necessitated that God sacrifice His only Son to atone for sin’s consequences. If sin were not so serious, Jesus would not have had to die. But sin is serious. And one way we can see how serious sin is by looking at what happened when God surveyed the earth and could only find one righteous man on it.
VK: We heard part of that portion of the Bible in our opening scripture. In verse 5 of the 6th chapter of Genesis we hear that “The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.” Verses 6 through 8 go on to say, “The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.” I don’t suppose there can be anything much more serious than when human beings do something that causes the Lord to “regret” that He had made them. Wow. The human beings of Noah’s age were so wicked they gave the Almighty and Perfect King regret.
RD: Well, a couple of notes are necessary here. When the Bible says that the Lord “regretted” that He had made people, that is what is called anthropopathism.
VK: It’s a what?
RD: Saying that God regretted making man is anthropopathism. The term “anthro” just refers to something pertaining to human beings. Anthropology is the study of human beings. The Bible in this case is depicting God in terms of human emotion and experience. God is omniscient. God knew that after Adam and Eve’s first sin the world would continue to descend into more and more wickedness. God was not surprised by the descent but He was saddened by the descent. God is a Personal Being and He experiences emotions and the Bible records these emotions from time to time. But, God continued to give warnings to people just as He had warned Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
VK: The fall in the Garden of Eden is described in chapter 3 of Genesis. In chapter 4 we have the famous incident of Cain and Abel. Even before Cain killed his brother Abel God said to Cain “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” You might have thought that Adam and Eve’s expulsion from Eden would have been a severe enough punishment to make sure that they and their descendants avoided sin for decades or centuries. After all, they had just experienced, in a very real way, the consequences of sin. You might have thought the consequences of the very first sin would have been enough of a warning. But a gracious God continued to give explicit warnings to His children.
RD: You might have thought that Adam and Eve losing paradise would have been enough of a warning, but, no. Sin begets sin. It did then. It does now. The very next chapter in Genesis we hear the Lord warning another human being, Cain, of the consequences of sin. But, of course, Cain didn’t listen. Cain killed his brother, Abel. And as a consequence Cain was also cast out from his homeland.
VK: Verse 16 of chapter 4 says, “So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.” Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out of the Garden of Eden. Cain killed his brother and was even sent away from the region of Eden. Our first parents weren’t deterred by the seriousness of sin nor was their oldest son.
RD: And things didn’t improve in succeeding generations. While Biblical scholars aren’t unified in their opinions on when the flood of Noah actually occurred, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, the Lead Scientist for Creation Ministries International, places the date of the flood 1656 years after creation. Dr. Sarfati provides a detailed discussion of his calculations in his commentary on the first 11 chapters of Genesis, The Genesis Account. I would highly recommend serious Bible students have a copy in their personal library. So, taking Dr. Sarfati’s date, we know that for the next 1,600 years following Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the Garden of Eden and Cain’s murder of Abel things just continued to get worse. They got so bad that the Bible uses the human emotion of regret to express what God felt about people continuing to engage in ever more sinful behaviors.
VK: And just as with the first sin, consequences were going to follow this steady progression of sin. The first sin in the Garden of Eden brought death into the created order and caused mankind to lose paradise. Cain’s sin resulted in him being sent away from his family and home. But in Noah’s day sin had proliferated so much that expulsion was no longer appropriate. Mankind had pushed God from expulsion to extermination.
RD: Yes. The flood of Noah which resulted of the death of all the people, animals, and birds except for those on the ark is, to say the least, a very graphic illustration of how seriously God treats sin. But God always precedes the consequences with a plain warning of the consequences. God warned Adam and Eve that if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would die. They didn’t listen and death entered creation. God warned Cain that “sin was crouching at this door” and he needed to “rule over it.” But Cain didn’t listen. He didn’t get a handle on his anger and it cost him his home and family. By Noah’s day this pattern of not listening had been going on for 1,600 years. We are not given the all the details of the progress of sin but its progression was so bad that there came a time when “every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.”
VK: We know that sin has multiplied in our culture in recent decades. Behavior that would never have been tolerated in previous times is now routinely featured on TV, in movies, on the internet, and sadly on our streets. We can see sin’s progression in our time and we know that things are bad now. I’m not sure we can envision how bad they must have been in Noah’s time for God to record in His word that “every inclination of human hearts was only evil all the time.” Yikes.
RD: Exactly. The people of Noah’s day knew or should have known how serious sin was. Noah’s life span overlapped Adam’s great-grandson Cain’s life by as much as 300 years or so. It’s entirely possible that Noah was alive when Adam’s grandson, Enoch, was alive. Noah’s father, Lamech, and grandfather, Methuselah, were alive while Adam was still living. The knowledge of Eden and what happened in Eden was readily available. We have to get our knowledge of the first sin and its consequences from the Bible (and thank God we have it) – but there were a great many alive in Noah’s day who could have gotten it from Adam himself.
VK: You know that’s something we never think about. In our world 1,600 years spans a lot of generations. But in the pre-flood world it wasn’t that way. Noah was only in the 10th generation down from Adam. As you said it was possible that Noah’s own father could have spoken to Adam face-to-face. And yet the availability of that personal knowledge did not stop sin from steadily escalating.
RD: And that’s how dangerous sin is. That’s how serious sin is. Noah’s father and grandfather could have spoken personally with the very first sinner and obtained first-hand knowledge of how serious was. But for whatever reason they didn’t and they died in the flood along with everyone else. If they had been as righteous as their son or grandson they could have had a place on the ark. But they weren’t and they didn’t. They paid the price for their wickedness alongside everyone else of their generations.
VK: That’s something we rarely contemplate. We see the names in the Bible, especially the ones in Genesis, and we think that all of those people must have been godly people. I mean they are in the Bible. But Noah’s own father and grandfather died in the flood that God sent into the world to punish the wickedness of that time. Most commentators think that it took Noah 50 to 75 years to build the ark. Now, we don’t know whether Noah built the ark near his father or grandfather but he might have. It’s an amazing thought that Noah’s father could have witnessed his son building this huge boat for 50 to 75 years and yet been so complacent about sin that he ultimately died even when salvation might have been right over the next ridge.
RD: And of course that same observation could be made of everyone else alive on the earth at that time except for Noah and his family. They were so insensitive to the seriousness of the steadily increasing evil that they just kept partying right up to the point that God made it clear He won’t put up with sin forever.
VK: Jesus observed in the Gospel of Luke, chapter 17, verses 26 and 27, “When the Son of Man comes, things will be just as they were when Noah lived. People were eating, drinking, and getting married right up to the day when Noah went into the big boat. Then the flood came and drowned everyone on earth.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version.
RD: The phrase “when the Son of Man comes” is a euphemism for Jesus’ return. What Jesus said was that just as in Noah’s day there will be a time just before His return when sin will be so pervasive people a great many people will be indifferent to it even though destruction is right around the corner for them.
VK: Why is that?
RD: Jesus’ return will usher in the beginning of eternal bliss for His children but it will usher in eternal destruction for those who have rejected Him. Just as the people of Noah’s day could see Noah preparing a means to be saved from the judgment of the flood and rejected the means, people today are rejecting the only means of being saved from a coming worldwide flood of judgment. Let’s take a quick look at how God has always dealt with the human race. God initially created everything and then shaped it to be a perfect world for man to occupy.
VK: Man was not created until day 6. By this time the sun was in the sky providing light and warmth, the oceans had been restrained so he was able to walk about, and their plants in place bearing edible fruits and vegetables. Moreover, the land animals had been created so Adam had the opportunity to be productive and creative right from the start. And Adam and Eve had each other so they had companionship. We hear all that in Genesis, chapter 1, verses 27 through 29 say, “God created humans to be like himself; ... God gave them his blessing and said: Have a lot of children! Fill the earth with people and bring it under your control. Rule over the fish in the ocean, the birds in the sky, and every animal on the earth. I have provided all kinds of fruit and grain for you to eat. … And so it was.” That’s the Contemporary English Version.
RD: And let’s not forget that God had put them in the midst of a garden designed for them. They had everything they needed to live peaceful, joyful lives including the ability to add to their family. God created the world and shaped it for man to fulfill the purpose for which man was created. But man chose to ignore God’s warning and creation was blighted. God then immediately began a plan of redemption. Fast forward 1600 years. Man has, in fact, multiplied but not in a good way. Man’s increase has been accompanied by an even greater increase in sin.
VK: So, God again issues a warning. The warning was given to Noah but all of Noah’s neighbors would have heard about the warning. Building a big boat for 50 to 75 years would surely have occasioned some neighborhood gossip. But no one but Noah and his family heeded the warning. The consequence about which Noah had been warned then occurs. The flood arrives and God reshapes the world by it. We don’t have time today to go into all of the reshaping that took place but even secular scientists agree that at one time in the past a super-continent was broken up into the configuration of the continents we see today.
RD: The dispersion of the land masses around the world then helps promote the worldwide dispersion of animals and people. This is consistent with God’s initial instruction to “fill the earth.” We see, then, three major themes repeated through the flood that we saw when we looked at the very first sin in the Garden of Eden. First, God warns people about the consequences of sin. Then man sins and the consequences of the sin arrive just as God warned. But, second, God continues His plan of redemption just as He had purposed before the foundation of the world. And, third, God continues to bring about the original mission He gave to Adam.
VK: Said slightly differently, man’s disobedience does not derail God’s sovereign ordination. This is a truly amazing thought. Man’s sin does not and cannot affect God’s sovereignty over the created order. Again, it boggles the mind how God can keep His plans on track regardless of whether man chooses to be obedient.
RD: Yes. God never enacts consequences for sin without giving a warning first. We see that pattern repeated throughout scripture. When the Israelites were coming out of Egypt God promised them blessings if they were obedient once they arrived in the Promised Land and warned them they would fall into exile and captivity if they began worshipping idols. They did exactly what God warned them not to do and they were eventually conquered by the Assyrians and the Babylonians.
VK: But through the Persians God kept His plan of redemption on track and the Jesus, the Messiah, was eventually born in the Promised Land just as God had ordained. The disobedience of the Israelites caused them to suffer but it did not derail God’s plan to bring a Messiah out of the nation descended from Abraham or His grand plan of redemption. God warned the people of Noah’s generation of the consequences of their continued wickedness. But, as Jesus observed, they ignored the warning completely – until they were destroyed. And one of the reasons we are taking the time to go through this history is to point out what happens when people don’t learn the lessons that God is trying to teach. We are all confronted with that same choice today. Obey God, accept Jesus, and be blessed for all eternity or disobey God, reject Jesus, and reap an eternity of condemnation. It’s a stark choice.
RD: It is a stark choice. That’s how serious sin is. Unconfessed sin and sin for which we do not repent has consequences. It has consequences in the here and now and it has even graver consequences after this life is over. God gave us the example of the flood of Noah as part of the warning to our world and our generation. The wise among us will learn from the lessons that are contained in the Bible.
VK: And just to be sure that those lessons were clear Jesus restated them during his earthly ministry. Most Christians, and even a lot of non-believers, know John, chapter 3, verse 16. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.”
RD: But most people do not know John 3:18, just two verses later. “Whoever believes in [Jesus] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” Sin is serious. I don’t know how the Bible could convey that more clearly. In example after example in the Bible we see that we ignore God’s warnings at our peril. And, as this verse says, the biggest warning that the Bible conveys is the danger of ignoring Jesus. The people in Noah’s world ignored the warning that God was going to punish the widespread wickedness of the day. I’m sad to say that it appears that many in our generation are making the same mistake.
VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce today is that once sin began in the Garden of Eden it did not stop. Cain continued the sin by killing Abel. And as succeeding generations were added they continued adding to the warehouse of accumulating sin. Eventually, God saw only one righteous person left and so God reshaped the world by a flood to continue the progress of His plans. We cannot derail God’s plans but we can create suffering for ourselves and others by trying. Sin is serious in part because sin causes misery and suffering. We should imitate Noah and heed God’s warning to us by being obedient. Our obedience does not save us. That is accomplished by the blood of Jesus. But our obedience can keep us safe through the storms of life while those about us are perishing. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for persecuted Christians – our faithful brothers and sisters who holding on to Christ’s promises despite the storms they are facing.
---- PRAYER FOR PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS (TREY)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Genesis, Chapter 6, verse 5, New International Version

Episode 229 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 8 – A “Lot” of Questions
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
… if [God] condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, …; and if he rescued Lot, … that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard;...
2 Peter, Chapter 2, verses 6 through 8, New International Version

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VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re so happy that you are able to join us today on Anchored by Truth. This is the 8th episode in a series we are calling “The Seriousness of Sin.” As the name of the series implies we are in the midst of taking a detailed look at sin and the impact it has had on our world and the impact that it has on our lives and futures. So far we have talked about both the current and eternal consequences of sin and the reality and nature of hell. And a couple of episodes we began talking about how seriously God treats sin. We started that process by examining the enormous consequences of the first sin in the Garden of Eden and moved on the looking at the worldwide flood where God destroyed almost all life on earth because of sin. As he has been throughout this series, to help us continue to think through hard truths that accompany sin’s existence, we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, a lot of people in our day and age want to pretend that sin doesn’t exist or at least that God doesn’t really care about our sin or judge us for it. But neither one of those ideas is true are they?
RD: Not only are those ideas not true they are dangerous. When people stop thinking that sin really is serious, when they stop treating sin seriously, they become like someone who goes on guard duty who falls asleep. A sleeping guard poses a danger not only to the guard but to the entire camp. The same thing is true of sin. If we don’t think that sin is serious, we won’t guard against it – and that not only is dangerous in the here and now it puts immortal souls in peril. And, as we have seen in our last few episodes, we should know sin is serious because of how seriously God treats sin. Death entered creation and man lost paradise because of one sin. And when God could only find one righteous man on the earth he removed all the rest of the people, the land animals, and the birds to start over.
VK: We know that the flood of Noah was caused by sin because in Genesis, chapter 6, verses 5 through 8 we hear “The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.’ But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.”
RD: The flood of Noah is a graphic example of just how seriously the Lord treats sin but it is by no means the only example.
VK: And you said that today you want to move on to another one of the clearest examples of how seriously God treats sin – the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. In Sodom and Gomorrah God once again found a huge group of people that just refused to give up their sin. So, God stepped in and gave us an object lesson through their destruction.
RD: Right. And we find that later Biblical writers used Sodom and Gomorrah to warn the audience of their day of the seriousness of sin. And the general story of Sodom and Gomorrah is so well known that I don’t think that we need to spend too much time on it. But there is one aspect of the story that I think is rarely discussed and that’s what I want to focus on today.
VK: And what aspect is that?
RD: The story of Lot. Lot was the patriarch Abraham’s nephew and in many ways Lot was the central human figure of the story. But I frankly think that Lot’s story raises more questions than it answers. So, I want to spend some time today on those questions. To start with let’s note that Lot is mentioned several times between chapters 11 and 19 of Genesis. We find out that Lot accompanied Abraham and Abraham’s father, Terah, when they left Ur of the Chaldeans and began the journey to Canaan. Lot traveled with Abraham for next several years including the sojourn into Egypt when they went there to escape a famine. And as they went along both Abraham and Lot became wealthy.
VK: Genesis, chapter 13, verses 5 and 6 say, “Now Lot, who was moving about with Abram, also had flocks and herds and tents. But the land could not support them while they stayed together, for their possessions were so great that they were not able to stay together.”
RD: Right. So, because tension was growing between Abraham and Lot’s servants Abraham made the suggestion that they separate and he gave Lot of the choice of whether Lot wanted to go to the east or west. Well, when Lot looked east he saw the Jordan River valley which was lush and green so he decided to go east rather than to the far more rugged country to the west. Well, the next mention that we have of Lot in scripture we find out that rather than continue to tend his flocks and herds on the plain near the Jordan River Lot has decided to settle in Sodom.
VK: Genesis chapter 14 tells us that a confederation of kings attacked Sodom and some other nearby cities, captured them, and carried off plunder and captives. Lot was one of the captives. Abraham heard about Lot’s capture and mounted a successful rescues mission. So, at that point Lot was definitely settled in Sodom.
RD: And Sodom was undoubtedly already a very wicked place by that time. But Lot, for some reason, had decided to settle there. We know it was wicked because of what we heard in our opening scripture. The Apostle Peter tells us “that righteous man [Lot], living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard.”
VK: And of course, we all know it ended. In Genesis, chapter 19, verses 23 through 26 we hear, “By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.” That’s the New International Version.
RD: Right. So, the story of Sodom, and Gomorrah is, as we said, a graphic example of how seriously God treats sin. But, as in Noah’s case, God did not rain destruction down without first sending a warning. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah God sent two angels to warn Lot and tell him to get his family out. Sadly, most of Lot’s family didn’t listen and were destroyed along with all the rest of the town. Even Lot’s wife, who initially heeded the warning, looked back and lost her life.
VK: So, in Sodom and Gomorrah we have the same pattern continued that we saw in Eden and in the flood. God warns people against sinning and then the people ignore the warning and commit the sin. Then, God judges the sin and consequences ensue. Paradise is lost, the people are sent into exile, and if the sin continues to grow the consequences get worse. But, God always continues with His plan of redemption and God is always able to rescue the righteous.
RD: Yes. And, in the case of Lot, it is a bit amazing that he is still referred to in scripture as being “righteous.” But he is. Lot, in many ways, is a puzzling figure but his life does provide us with some very clear lessons.
VK: What is puzzling about Lot?
RD: Well, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Peter refers to Lot as being righteous. Now, that doesn’t mean that Lot was sinless. When the scripture labels someone as righteous it certainly doesn’t mean they’re perfect. It does mean that they have a genuine concern for the things of God and that they are aware of God’s holiness and man’s sinfulness.
VK: Jesus’ half-brother James let us know that being righteous does not being sinless. In James, chapter 5, verse 16, James says, “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.” That’s also from the New International Version. In the same verse James tells us to confess our sins – which means we know we have them – and he goes on to say that the prayers of a righteous person are “powerful and effective.” There would be no point in telling us to pray if being righteous meant being sinless.
RD: Exactly. So, the scripture calling Lot righteous does not mean Lot was sinless. Far from it. But it does mean that Lot knew that there was a God in heaven, who is sovereign, had established standards for human behavior, rewards obedience, and punishes disobedience. Lot at least knew those things. In fact, Lot probably knew much more. Lot had spent decades in Abraham’s company and Abraham is called the father of the faithful.
VK: Romans, chapter 4, verse 11 says, in part that Abraham “is the spiritual father of those who have faith.”
RD: So, Lot had the benefit of years or decades of being in presence of one of the true spiritual giants of history and scripture. Lot knew, or should have known, more about faith in God than just about anybody of his world but after he became wealthy Lot began making a series of decisions that can only be labeled “poor” or even “disastrous.” For instance, look at his change in circumstances.
VK: In Chapter 13 of Genesis Lot has so much wealth that he has to separate his flocks and herds from Abraham’s. Lot apparently has a sizeable company of servants and animal tenders. Quite likely Lot’s wife had handmaidens and other domestic servants. Lot is wealthy in his own right before he moves into the vicinity of Sodom. When he first moves onto the plain he was likely still living in tents while supervising his flocks and herds. But, at some point, Lot decided to move into a house in Sodom.
RD: And that is a good illustration of how dangerous sin is. We are not told why Lot decided to actually begin living in Sodom but we can engage in some holy speculation. Initially, Lot is living near Sodom so he probably began trading with merchants from the town. He’s probably selling them milk, cheese, and meat and he and his followers may be buying food that comes from a settled agricultural community – oil, nuts, olives, raisins.
VK: But Sodom probably had merchants selling other goods as well. While this is long before Israel existed as a nation that area was an important trade route between Egypt, Syria, and other countries to the north. Sodom was a goodly-sized town for the day. They probably had people selling tools and utensils as well as luxuries – cloth, spices, wine. It would have been easy for Lot and his crew to start to believe that it was easier to make a living from trading than from the physical labor of managing sheep, goats, and cattle. And life in town was undoubtedly easier than life on the plain in the tent. Lot wouldn’t be the first person to trade the farm for the city. I’m reminded of the famous song from World War I – “How Ya Gonna Keep 'em Down on the Farm (After They've Seen Paree?).”
RD: So, at some point Lot did trade life on the farm for a sad, wicked version of “Paree.” If he had still been living in tents there’s a good chance he could have moved his household out of the way when he learned there was a confederation of kings intent on capturing the cities of the plain. At any rate, by the time chapter 19 of Genesis arrives Lot has been in Sodom for some time. Lot is sitting in the gate of the city when the two angels approach Sodom. Sitting in the gate is a sign that Lot has become a town elder. When he first came to town Lot was wealthy. His wealth helped him become an influential person in town – so much so that by now he sits in the city gate with other elders.
VK: But even though he is sitting with the other elders he is not like the other elders. However he does it Lot recognizes that the angels are different from other visitors that come to Sodom. We don’t know whether he knew they were angels by seeing them or whether the Holy Spirit gave him a nudge. But Lot knows that the arrival of these two is a danger to the town. He tries to get them out of sight and out of the way of the other people in town. In many Biblical descriptions of encounters with angels the angels are described as appearing like younger human men, likely attractive.
RD: And that appearance would have made the angels exceptionally attractive to a city given over to homosexuality – which we hear about in verses 4 and 5 of chapter 19. But Lot knew that exposing these visitors to the town’s people would bring judgment down. I can’t be sure but I think Lot was hoping to keep the angels away from the crowd hoping that the next morning they would just leave and things could return to the normal wickedness.
VK: But Lot soon learned that wasn’t going to happen, didn’t he?
RD: Just as Abraham had discovered the prior day Lot found out that God had already determined to bring destructive judgment onto Sodom. Remember that in chapter 18 of Genesis Abraham had had an extended negotiation with God. Abraham had gotten God to agree that if God could find just 10 righteous people in Sodom he would spare the whole city. Again, My guess is that Abraham was thinking to himself – “I know Lot is righteous. That’s one. And his wife is probably righteous. And his children. And maybe some of his children have married and influenced their spouses to know God.” Abraham was probably counting people in his head even as he was talking to God before God left Abraham’s camp.
VK: And, of course, God could agree to spare Sodom if he could find 10 righteous people because God already knew that there weren’t 10 righteous people in Sodom. In fact, as the story unfolded it’s likely the only righteous person in Sodom was Lot. And God rescued Lot as well as two of his daughters. Lot’s wife sealed her own fate when she turned back to look at Sodom after the angels warned her not to.
RD: And that may be an indication that one of the big reasons Lot had left the plain and moved into the city – and stayed in the city – was because his family had wanted it that way. We know from the account that some of Lot’s daughters had already found husbands from among the Sodom men. Verse 14 of chapter 19 refers to Lot’s “sons-in-law.” That’s from the New International Version. The New Living Translation calls them the daughters’ fiancés. That clearly shows that Lot’s daughters were prepared to marry wicked men to continue to enjoy the comforts they had gotten used to.
VK: I see what you meant when you said that Lot is a puzzling figure. We know from 2 Peter that Lot was righteous. But if Lot was righteous - which he was because the Bible says he was - why would he remain in the midst of so much wickedness. As the verse from 2 Peter says Lot was “tormented” by the lawlessness, the wickedness, going on around him. I suppose it’s possible that his family may have been the source of his willingness to remain in Sodom despite the evil he saw around him. His wife looked back even as she knew the city was being destroyed. Lot’s daughters refused to leave even after Lot begged them to. This is a great lesson for all of us. We have to be strong enough to resist the temptation to engage in sin even when it’s our family members who presenting the temptation.
RD: That’s one of the very clear lessons from the story. The populations of Sodom and Gomorrah had become like the people of the world during Noah’s day. Their actions were wicked continually. And even people who should have known better like Lot’s family members were swept up into the wickedness and it resulted in their destruction. But the foundation for that destruction had been laid years earlier when Lot let the temptation of his eyes sway his decision about where he would settle. Lot chose what he perceived to be the easier path. And that first poor choice was followed by a succession of poor choices. That’s how sin proceeds. At first, poor choices seem to be unimportant ones. I’ll go down to the valley rather than remaining in the hills. But one poor choice leads to another and the final end for many is the loss of everything.
VK: But, as we have said before, sin’s effects aren’t limited to just the person making the poor choice. After they had left Sodom eventually Lot and his two unmarried daughters wound up back in the mountains anyway – living in a cave. Then, when the daughters realized that they were now outcasts from the people they had been living among – they made even more bad choices. They began to fear that they would never be able to get married and have kids, which was considered a curse in that time. So, they got their father drunk and had an incestuous relationship with him. They were successful in their intention because they both got pregnant. But the boys they gave birth to became the founding fathers of the nations of Moab and Ammon that would plague Israel hundreds of years later.
RD: Yes. But the incest raises another puzzling question and makes another important teaching point. Lot knew that his uncle Abraham was still in the general vicinity of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible tells us that Abraham was close enough to see the dense clouds of smoke rising from the cities after God had rained fire and brimstone down. Lot knew that he and his two daughters are now homeless. Why didn’t Lot just ask the angels for permission to return to Abraham instead of asking to be allowed to another nearby town?
VK: That is a good question.
RD: Thank you.
VK: I guess the immediate answer that comes to mind is that Lot was too embarrassed to return to his uncle’s camp. Years earlier Lot had parted from Abraham as a wealthy man with a good reputation. After Sodom’s destruction he is now homeless, penniless, and disgraced. He’s lost his wealth, most of his family, and his judgment is now seen to be questionable. What we don’t know is whether Abraham warned Lot about the dangers of being near such wicked cities when they parted and Lot chose to go to the Jordan River plain. If Abraham had given Lot that kind of warning, which is something a wise, concerned uncle would do, then Lot would have had double the reason for embarrassment.
RD: And that’s the point. After leaving the town of Zoar (they were likely forced out by the town’s residents who would have thought them cursed) Lot’s daughters became desperate. They’re tired, hungry, discouraged and now facing a grim future. They are particularly desperate thinking that there is no way they will ever be able to get married, have kids, and lead a fulfilling life. So, in their desperation they come up with a drastic solution. It worked – sort of. They have children who grow up to give rise to two future nations. But both of those nations will become enemies of the future Israel and would contain their own share of wickedness. It’s impossible to know whether if Lot had chosen to flee to his uncle’s camp whether his daughters might have had a better future among their own relatives. It’s yet another sad element of this sequence of poor decisions that started when Lot let the lust of his eyes begin his descent into sojourning with sin.
VK: I like that phrase – sojourning with sin. Lot’s tale set within the broader setting of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is both cautionary and encouraging. It’s encouraging because, as the Apostle Peter pointed out, God knows how to rescue his children even when they are found among those practicing gross sin. God knows His children and He will help us even when we make poor choices – a lot of them. That’s encouraging. But Lot’s tale is also a cautionary one. Sodom and Gomorrah were desperately wicked but Lot could have remained safely outside them. Said plainly, the more distance we put between ourselves and sin the better off we will be. Lot had everything he needed to live a joyful, successful life but he exchanged it for what he thought would be an easier life. Maybe his family was part of the temptation but the decision to sojourn with sin was his own. This is a great lesson for Christians. God can protect us but why should we put ourselves in positions where we need rescue. Lot barely escaped destruction and his poor decision making led his daughters to make desperation driven decisions that would plague a future Israel. Our goal should be to emulate Abraham not Lot. Abraham developed the maturity of his faith throughout his life in the mountains and is listed in the faith “hall of heroes” in Hebrews, chapter 11. Lot drowned his faith in the pleasures of this world and his entire family paid the price. Sin is too serious and dangerous for us to move in next to it. We’re better off in the rugged mountains where our faith can grow than in the lush valleys where sin presents constant temptation. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our school age children who are facing their own challenges with test taking. We hope they will avoid the temptation to seek the wrong type of help as they prepare and take tests. Part of our role is to ensure our kids that the right kind of help is always available and they never need be embarrassed by asking for it.
---- PRAYER FOR TAKING TESTS (RANNI)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New International Version)
2 Peter, Chapter 2, verses 6 through 8, New International Version

Episode 230 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 9 – Sin, Out of Bounds
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans, Chapter 2, verses 12 and 13, New International Version

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VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad to be with you today on Anchored by Truth. This is the 9th episode in a series we are calling “The Seriousness of Sin.” As the name implies we are taking a detailed look at sin and we have covered a lot of important ground. We have talked about the consequences of sin both in this world and in eternity to come. We’ve discussed the reality and nature of hell. And a few episodes ago we began talking about how seriously God treats sin. For instance, have you ever realized that man lost paradise and introduced death into creation just by committing one sin in the Garden of Eden? Moreover, God destroyed almost all life on earth in a flood that encompassed the whole world because of sin. All that sounds pretty serious to me. So, in today’s episode we’re going to begin our wrap up. To do that, we have RD Fierro in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, you said that today you want to talk about sin as being “out-of-bounds.” What do you mean by that?
RD: Well, I was having an email exchange with Doug Apple who is the manager of the WAVE 94 radio station in Tallahassee. Doug is a very thoughtful and mature Christian and I’m always impressed with the quality of his insight and observations. Doug said this to me in an email. “Once you throw out the notion of God the Creator, who created creation with a certain way of working, you are in trouble. He told us what works and what doesn't. He set up boundaries for us, and things outside the boundaries are called sin... and things outside the boundaries don't work right. If we are paying attention and connect the dots, we can see that things outside the boundaries are problematic.”
VK: Hmmmm. That is an interesting insight. Doug is making a very important point. God set the boundaries for all of creation when he made everything. I’m reminded of Job, chapter 38, verses 8 through 11 when God said to Job, “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, …, when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’?” That’s from the New International Version. Doug is noting that, just as God set boundaries for the physical forces of nature, God also set boundaries for human behavior.
RD: Yes. Doug’s point is not only insightful but powerful. Our nation, and much of the world today, is obsessed with sports. I don’t think I can think of a single sport that does not have boundaries of some sort that must be respected by the competitors. Go “out of bounds,” – beyond the prescribed limits – and there is some kind of negative consequence including an outright loss of the game or contest. Football, baseball, and soccer fields have sidelines and you have to stay within the sidelines for the play to be legal. Golf courses have penalties if you hit a ball out of bounds. Even sports that don’t have sidelines or spatial boundaries will have time limits for getting the shot off or making a move. I’d go so far as to say there is no sport that doesn’t have boundaries of one kind or another.
VK: And players who violate those boundaries get penalized in some way. They lose the ball, have points taken away, lose a turn, etc. Something negative happens when they violate the boundaries. The creator of the sport is the one who set the original boundaries. Now, the boundaries may change from time to time, but even when they do the players are obligated to stay within the boundaries or they will lose.
RD: Right. And I think that that’s one of the great points that we see from Doug’s observation. As we have been saying since the beginning of this series sin is dangerous. It is so dangerous that we need to not flirt with it or pretend that somehow we are exempt from the perils of sin. When we tamper with sin, we lose. And, as with our sports metaphor, if one player flouts the boundaries it may cost the whole team the game. In life we are hardly ever playing just for ourselves. We are almost always part of a team – a family, a company, a church, a community, or a nation. If we routinely and impenitently sin, we’re not the only one who is going to lose. Many others are going to lose – sometimes a great many others. So, as we begin our wrap up I think Doug’s observation helps us summarize many of the points we have wanted to make in this series.
VK: Where do you want to start?
RD: Well, let’s return briefly to the story we discussed on our last episode of Anchored by Truth – to one of the most serious examples in the Bible of how seriously God treats sin.
VK: In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we discussed the story we find in the book of Genesis about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And we focused on the central human figure of the story, the patriarch Abraham’s nephew, Lot. Lot lived in Sodom until the day before the destruction of the cities. He only survived because God sent two angels to Lot to warn Lot to get his family out of the city. Most of Lot’s family members ignored the warning and died in the destruction. Even Lot’s wife looked back as she was leaving the city with Lot and two of her daughters and she turned into a pillar of salt. Lot and his two youngest daughters could have returned to Abraham’s camp because his camp was not that far away. Genesis, chapter 19, verses 27 and 28 tells us, “Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the Lord. He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.” That’s from the New International Version also.
RD: Right. Lot could have taken his two young daughters and asked for refuge from his uncle, Abraham. Throughout that part of Genesis we see that Abraham had great fondness for Lot and would gladly have taken him in. If Lot had gone to Abraham he could have settled in Abraham’s camp and when the time came it’s quite likely his daughters would have found future husbands from either relatives or friends. But Lot didn’t. He tried to settle in another one of the cities near the Jordan River but that didn’t work. It’s likely the residents of the nearby cities thought of Lot and his daughters as being cursed since they came from cities who had so obviously been destroyed by God. So, Lot and his daughters wound up living in a cave where his daughters became desperate they would never have families of their own. Their desperation led them to get their father drunk and commit incest with him.
VK: We hear from Genesis, chapter 19, verses 36 through 38 that, “So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.”
RD: And the Moabites and Ammonites would both become competitors and enemies of Israel in the coming decades and centuries. One of the points that we made in our last episode was that sin induces people to make bad decisions.
VK: And, more often than not, one bad decision leads to others. Lot’s original decision to seek the easy life down by the Jordan River led him to the point of losing everything he owned and just about everyone that he loved. But, even worse, his poor decision making lead to his daughters making sinful decisions of their own. If Lot had at least fled to Abraham perhaps his daughters would not have crafted their own desperately sinful plan.
RD: Right. Part of the reason that sin is so dangerous is that a sinful decision often seems to lead us to some form of pleasure. The first time a young person takes a drink they get the “buzz.” They enjoy feeling less inhibited; more relaxed, and seem able to enjoy things. But if they drink enough they lose the good feelings and go straight to being drunk and out of control. And then they experience pain and anguish when they’re not drinking. Living in sin, as Lot lived in Sodom, makes you available for destruction. In sports, the players who make their plays closet to the lines give us the most thrills. But if the game is on the line one inch outside the line may mean the difference in the game, the season, or a career. A good golfer doesn’t try to see how close to the out of bounds marker he or she can hit a drive. They try to keep their shots in the middle of the fairway.
VK: Engaging in sin often brings an initial sense of pleasure. The pain comes later and it always comes. The thrill of gambling a little can turn into financial ruin. The first drug use makes people high. But continued use will destroy their bodies, relationships, careers, and even result in death. Drinking leads to drunk driving and potentially prison. The early pleasure is replaced by the lasting pain. And, as Doug observed, God built us and the system that way. The pain sin brings tells us that we are going over the boundary of where God wants us to be. If we live life in the middle of the fairway, we will not only score well we will be safe.
RD: Yes. Once man committed the first sin in the Garden of Eden, God began to do at least two things simultaneously. He initiated a plan for the redemption of those of Adam and Eve’s descendants that would trust in God and not in themselves for salvation. And God set into place consequences for sin that would restrain man’s new longing for sin.
VK: We talked about that in the 6th episode in this series. After the first sin God cursed the ground so now Adam and Eve had to struggle to get enough food for themselves and their family. Part of the reason God made Adam have to spend more time supplying their food was because that reduced the amount of time and energy he would have on mischief. And now that death was a possibility for them they needed a routine that would help them stay in good physical condition. Working to grow food would certainly be better for them physically than if they were able to get all they needed without doing anything. We tend to think of hard physical labor as being a curse but the need to work for their food probably established some beneficial habit in Adam and Eve and their family
RD: Exactly. Engaging in sin means that we are leaving the boundaries established for us just as he established the limits for the sea. In the book of Job God said that and “set [the sea’s] doors and bars in place.” God said to the sea, “This far you may come and no farther.” God says that to us in many different ways. He said that to us verbally in the Ten Commandments. He says that to us emotionally in our guilt and experiences of remorse and regret. He even says that to us physically when we drink to excess and get a hangover or we take illegal drugs and we see our bodies wasting away. God has prescribed boundaries for human behavior and he has ways of telling us that we are going out of bounds.
VK: C.S. Lewis famously said, “We can ignore even pleasure. But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world. We are most keenly aware of God's character in our suffering. It is when our self-sufficiency is peeled away that we see how weak we really are.”
RD: Just as all sports have boundaries, so does life. We can go so far as to say that without boundaries there can be no game. At best there might be some sort of play, but there would certainly be no possibility for meaningful sports contests. And another point that we can see in Doug’s observation is that when we sin we are, in effect, attempting to cheat. We are not only cheating God but we are also cheating ourselves.
VK: I like that. When we sin we are engaging in a form of cheating. There’s an old story that a minister once asked a young boy what he thought God was like. The boy replied “I think he’s the kind of fellow who tries to go about and see if anyone is having fun, and if they are, he stops them.” A lot of people think God is like that. Far too many people in our day and age think of sin as being fun and pleasurable while being obedient to God is dull and boring.
RD: And, again, that is a good illustration of how dangerous sin is. I would never say that sin and Satan aren’t good at marketing. They are. But, as with all things that oppose God, the marketing is deceptive and deceitful. Sin and Satan promise pleasure but, in the end, always deliver only pain and misery. The married person who engages in a little flirting and then proceeds to adultery will initially find the adultery exciting and thrilling. But adultery will destroy marriages, terrify children, and decimate lives and careers. Contrary to what we see on TV and in movies adultery is never a good solution to people’s unhappiness. At first, it’s exciting. Sin always wants us to think short term. But God always wants us to build for eternity.
VK: Sin is a way of trying to cheat to get a better life. Someone wants more money to buy better things but rather than work for it and wait for it, they steal from their employer. They might steal a little at first but as time goes by they steal more and more because they will find their hunger for the so-called “better things” is never fully satisfied. They try to cheat their way to prosperity. Someone wants to feel better after they’ve had a bad day at work. So, they stop at the bar and have “a few drinks” to relax. But one night turns into many and that turns into a habit that steals their money and time from taking care of their home and their family. They’re trying to find an easy way to find peace and joy so they cheat using alcohol. We could go on and on with examples but I don’t think we need to. Sinning is trying to cheat at life just as a player may try to cheat to get a better score or unfair advantage.
RD: And, again, our consciences will clearly tell us that the sin, just like cheating, is wrong. But there is a problem. After the fall our consciences have been seared and they no longer operate the way they should. So, while our consciences are helpful to alerting us to sin they are not infallible.
VK: But the Bible is infallible, isn’t it? That’s how we start every episode of Anchored by Truth – with the declaration that the Bible is inspired, inerrant, and infallible. That means that when we inform our conscience with the truth present in the Bible we can place more trust in our conscience to be a reliable guide to alerting us that we are sinning. Our conscience will still not be perfect but, by regular and consistent exposure to God’s truth we can train our consciences. And such training will help us be more sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit to help us notice and combat the sin that ensnares us so easily.
RD: Well, before we close today there is one more point that I think we can glean from Doug’s insight. We have been talking about the importance of boundaries in sports and how it’s impossible to win without staying within those boundaries. But sports is not the only place we find boundaries. When people buy houses or other real property they often have a survey of the property done so they know what the boundaries of the property are.
VK: People want to know the boundaries of their property because that tells them where they may safely and legally build. And they want to find out whether anyone has violated those boundaries so they can seek compensation or remediation.
RD: And before a fixed-wing or helicopter pilot ever sits behind a control stick or wheel in a cockpit they spend hours in class studying things that don’t seem very glamorous. The study oil pressure, hydraulic pressure, bank and turn rates, the revolutions per minute of engines, etc. The reason they do that is a pilot needs to know the safe operating limits and levels of their aircraft.
VK: Because a pilot who does not understand the performance “envelope” of their aircraft is a danger to their passengers, crew, the aircraft and themselves.
RD: Exactly. So, we can see that there is another very valuable purpose that is served by people understanding that sinful behavior is “out of bounds.” Sinful behavior is unsafe. Remember Doug’s observation. “[God] created creation with a certain way of working, ... He told us what works and what doesn't. He set up boundaries for us, and things outside the boundaries are called sin.” A pilot studies the acceptable performance parameters of their aircraft so they will know how to operate that aircraft safely. A property owner needs to know the boundaries of their property so they don’t run the risk of loss by building something that might have to be moved or torn down. And the property owner studies the boundaries to be sure their own property rights haven’t been violated.
VK: I see where you are going with this thought. Boundaries not only make legitimate sports possible they also keep us safe in other areas of life. As we age we learn that our bodies have their own boundaries. We need to keep our weight below certain levels. We need to get adequate rest. We need to be careful lifting heavy objects or working outside when it is too hot or too cold. When we start to exceed the natural boundaries of our bodies we jeopardize our health and longevity. When you think about it, boundaries are present just about everywhere we turn. Our bank accounts only have so much money in them and the range of our cars is limited by how much gas the tank holds and how many miles they get per gallon.
RD: We live in a physical creation and boundaries, limits, are an integral part of that creation. As Doug observed when God designed creation He designed the boundaries for all the parts of creation, including the boundaries of our planet’s features …
VK: As God reminded Job in the quote we heard earlier...
RD: And as the Apostle Paul reminded the church at Rome which we heard in our opening scripture. The law that was given to Israel contained a detailed description of what was permissible and what was not permissible for their behavior. When God gave the ancient Israelites the law God was simply drawing specific boundaries for them just as he had long ago drawn the boundaries for the physical structure of the heavens and the earth.
VK: What you are saying is that despite our science fiction and fantasy movies we human beings do not and cannot control the reality in which we live. Boundaries are a simple fact of the created order. They are in the physical creation. And they are for the creature that God created in His own image. And we disregard those boundaries at our own peril.
RD: And that’s the point. The Apostle Paul told the Roman church that regardless of whether they were Jews or Gentiles – whether they had grown up knowing the specific content of the Hebrew law – the law, the limits still governed their behavior. Those who chose to sin were outside God’s designated boundaries and being beyond those boundaries meant that they became unrighteous. And God designed the whole system to warn us about the consequences of such unrighteousness. The ultimate consequence of remaining unrighteous is, of course, to spend an eternity in hell. But God has given us a lot of warnings in our present world to avoid that fate.
VK: As C.S. Lewis said, “God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain: [pain] is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.” Sin is fundamentally wrong because it is rebellion against God. But it is also wrong because it a form of cheating in this life and it puts us and our families in danger. Doug has made such an important point. God didn’t design His creation to curtail our fun. That’s the lie the devil propagates. God put boundaries in creation to show us how to live safe, joyful, and fulfilling lives. We can either believe that God loves us and respect those boundaries. Or, we can fall for the devil’s lies and try to cheat our way to a life that will promise pleasure but only deliver pain. We have the free will to choose to do it God’s way or the devil’s way. There is no middle ground when it comes to sin. And, as we saw in our episode on Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot’s road to loss and devastation began with one sinful choice. It has been said that “most people learn from experience but wise people learn from the experience of others.” This sounds like a great time to pray. In our last episode we listened to a prayer for our school age children who are face challenges with taking tests. We certainly hope they don’t cheat – ever. Today, let’s listen to a prayer for the school boards who oversee the education of children. Their duty is extremely important. Let’s pray they don’t cheat by trying to impart sinful ideas into schools and curricula.
---- PRAYER FOR SCHOOL BOARDS (RANNI)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Romans, Chapter 2, verses 12 and 13, New International Version

Episode 231 – Seriousness of Sin – Part 10 – The Original Sinner
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. … he is a liar and the father of lies.
The Gospel of John, Chapter 8, verse 44, New Living Translation

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VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad to be with you today on Anchored by Truth. This is our final episode in this series that we have called “The Seriousness of Sin.” During this series we talked about the consequences of sin both in this world and in eternity to come. We discussed the reality and nature of hell. And we spent a few episodes talking about how seriously God treats sin. If you want an easy-to-see example of how seriously God treats sin you only have to realize that man lost paradise and death entered creation all because of a single sin in the Garden of Eden. And an even more graphic example of sin’s seriousness is that God’s only Son had to die on the cross to atone for sin’s consequences. To help us wrap up this series we have RD Fierro in the studio today. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, in our last episode we talked about sin being out-of-bounds. Can you briefly summarize why that was important?
RD: Doug Apple who is the manager of the WAVE 94 radio station in Tallahassee once said to me that “[God] set up boundaries for us, and things outside the boundaries are called sin... and things outside the boundaries don't work right. If we are paying attention … we can see that things outside the boundaries are problematic.” I think Doug is absolutely right and so as a partial summary to this series I wanted for the listeners to begin thinking about areas in their lives where they may be “beyond the boundaries.” As Doug noted, anything beyond the boundaries God has set for us is going to cause problems. The whole point of this seriousness of sin series is to help people start thinking about whether they have a Biblically based understanding of what sin is and whether they are joining the broader society in treating sin lightly or even flippantly.
VK: Because if they are treating sin lightly or flippantly they are going to have problems. Sin is insidious. At first sinful activities may seem fun or pleasurable. Especially to young people it may seem like we make too big a deal out of sin. We hear people say things like “what’s the harm” or “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” But what the Bible clearly shows us is that sin always causes harm. It may cause little initially but the harm will build over time. And all too often by the time the sinner realizes the gravity of what they have been doing it is too late. But by developing a Biblical understanding of sin we can avoid the proliferation of sin in our own lives and the harm that sin will produce.
RD: Yes. So, in our last episode we talked about how we can know that we are approaching or going beyond the boundaries God has set for us.
VK: And anyone who missed that episode or any episode of Anchored by Truth can go to our website, crystalseabooks.com, and listen to it.
RD: Right. So, last time we talked about the fact that God’s boundaries are meant to keep us safe while we are passing through this world. We don’t want to sojourn with sin the way Abraham’s nephew, Lot, did when he went to live in the city of Sodom.
VK: Sojourning with sin is not just unwise. It can pose mortal danger just as it did for the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah.
RD: Right. If Lot had stayed out of Sodom he wouldn’t have lost his wealth, his family, and his dignity. Lot sojourned with sin and paid the price. God rescued Lot but it would have been so much better for him and his family if he had not. Now we don’t know the specific reason Lot decided to abandon his former life as a very successful shepherd but we do know Lot’s life is one more sad example of what happens when we let the lust of our eyes entice us to go beyond God’s boundaries.
VK: And that’s something that has been happening ever since Satan first tempted Eve in the garden. Genesis, chapter 3, verse 6 says, “The woman saw how beautiful the tree was and how good its fruit would be to eat, and she thought how wonderful it would be to become wise. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, and he also ate it.” Eve’s surrender to temptation began with her eyes. The same thing was true of Lot. Genesis, chapter 13, verse 10 says, “Lot looked around and saw that the whole Jordan Valley, all the way to Zoar, had plenty of water, like the Garden of the LORD or like the land of Egypt.” Lot liked how the Jordan valley looked. So, he left his uncle and the mountains and descended into sin’s valley where he lost everything. Those verses are from the Good News Translation.
RD: Right. Both Lot and Eve got into trouble, at least in part, because they were tempted by beauty. In Eve’s case it was the beauty of the tree. In Lot’s case it was the beauty of the valley. Now, there’s nothing wrong with being attracted to beauty. But we must always check to be sure that beauty we are seeking is the beauty that arises from godly things and not the lust that arises from our eyes or our pride.
VK: We hear about the role that beauty can play in leading people into temptation and ultimate destruction in two of the best known passages from the Old Testament about the city of Tyre [TIRE]. Tyre was a very wealthy, prosperous city on the coast of the Mediterranean Sea during Biblical times. It amassed huge wealth from trading because of its powerful navy and coastal location. The prophet Ezekiel gave several prophecies about the upcoming destruction of Tyre. In chapter 27, verses 2 and 3, of his book Ezekiel said, “Mortal man, sing a funeral song for Tyre, that city which stands at the edge of the sea and does business with the people living on every seacoast. Tell her what the Sovereign LORD is saying: ‘Tyre, you boasted of your perfect beauty.’” Then in chapter 28 verses 12 through 15 Ezekiel reports God talking to the king of Tyre. God said, “You were once an example of perfection. How wise and handsome you were! You lived in Eden, the garden of God, and wore gems of every kind: rubies and diamonds; topaz, beryl, carnelian, and jasper; sapphires, emeralds, and garnets. You had ornaments of gold. They were made for you on the day you were created. … You lived on my holy mountain and walked among sparkling gems. Your conduct was perfect from the day you were created until you began to do evil.” That’s also from the Good News Translation.
RD: Some Bible commentators think that God addressing the king of Tyre in chapter 28 is actually God speaking to Satan using the king as a human representative for Satan, but there is not a consensus among the scholarly community on that. But regardless of whether God is addressing Satan or just a puffed-up earthly king we can see that beauty, in and of itself, is not a sign that danger may not be just around the corner. We must be alert to the possibility that evil is using visual beauty as a disguise.
VK: And that is one thing that you said you wanted to talk about as we wrap up this series. There are often obvious warning signs that sin is, as God told Cain in Genesis, chapter 4, verse 7, “crouching at your door.” But sin does always crouch at the door in a monster outfit. Here’s what the Apostle Paul had to say when he was warning the church in Corinth about the dangers of false teachers. “Those men are not true apostles—they are false apostles, who lie about their work and disguise themselves to look like real apostles of Christ. Well, no wonder! Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light! So it is no great thing if his servants disguise themselves to look like servants of righteousness. In the end they will get exactly what their actions deserve.”
RD: Right. Sin is dangerous because it can masquerade so effectively.
VK: If sin can masquerade as beauty or light, then how do we know to be on guard to avoid it?
RD: By following Jesus’ example when He was tempted by Satan and not Eve’s.
VK: Jesus quoted scripture to Satan and continued to quote scripture as the temptations continued. Eve initially repeated God’s word to Satan but she quickly abandoned God’s instructions in favor of her own estimation. Rather than simply sticking with the simple instruction she had been given about the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil – “don’t eat” – she substituted her own judgment. The fruit looked good. She wanted to be wise. She wanted to be like God. I see your point. Jesus, even though he was the Son of God, just returned to God’s word every time. Yikes. This is scary.
RD: And it should be. Sin can masquerade as beauty and light – because the original sinner can put on any guise that suits him. He has been doing so from the beginning. That’s what we heard about in our opening scripture. Jesus told his disciples that “[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning. He … always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. … he is a liar and the father of lies.” Note the Jesus said Satan was a murderer from the beginning and he was the father of lies. We sometimes think that the first sinners were Adam and Eve, but they weren’t.
VK: I see what you’re saying. Adam and Eve weren’t the first sinners. The very first sinner was Satan.
RD: Yes. And we can learn a lot about the dangers of sin and how to combat it by looking at what the Bible has to say about Satan. Satan was the original sinner, the father of lies and murder. We hear Satan lying to Eve in the opening chapters of the first book of the Bible, Genesis. And we hear Satan deceiving the world through the anti-Christ, Beast, and false prophet in the last book of the Bible, Revelation.
VK: You know that’s something you hardly ever think about. The only Person, the only One who transcends the entire period of the Bible’s record is God. God is mentioned in the very first verse of the Bible and the last verse of the Bible and the last 3 verses of the Bible in Revelation all mention Jesus. God begins the Bible and ends the Bible which is entirely appropriate. It is His book. But, interestingly Satan is also mentioned in the first book of the Bible and in the last. Satan also makes lots of appearances along the way including at the very beginning of Jesus’ public ministry. So, we know that Satan, like all those of the angelic order, do not suffer death.
RD: Yes. And during all that long period there is no evidence found anywhere in the Bible that Satan ever turned away from his sinning ways or repented of his wickedness and evil. That gives us all something to think about.
VK: Such as?
RD: Well, even up to this point Satan has existed for over 6,000 years. And while Satan is neither omni-present nor omniscient during those 6,000 plus years he has seen a lot. Satan has seen God destroy human sinners – a lot of them. Satan observed Jesus’ earthly ministry. He saw Jesus cast demons out of people with merely a word. And Satan knows the entire Bible cover to cover, every word. Satan knows the book of Revelation, which forecasts his ultimate fate, better than any person ever could. But again, despite all of what he has seen and what he knows we have no evidence that Satan has ever sought forgiveness or redemption from God. To the contrary, if those who view Revelation as describing a future great conflict are correct, Satan and his demonic followers just get worse through time.
VK: I know where you’re going. It is a cardinal belief among the modern world that if we could just give people more information, more education they would all begin to behave more virtuously, more nobly, more kindly. We hear over and over today that human beings aren’t evil, just misinformed. But as we look at the career of an intelligent being that has spanned thousands of years that belief is called into question. Now, I’m sure that there are people today who would say that using Satan as an example of how humans behave isn’t fair. We aren’t demons or angels.
RD: I’m sure they would. And it is true that we are not members of the angelic order. But we are intelligent, moral agents, with free wills as the angels are. But there is an important difference between us and the angels. After Satan and the demons sinned there is no record in the Bible that they were provided a means of redemption. By contrast after Adam and Eve sinned God immediately instituted a plan to redeem anyone who would begin to place their trust in God for redemption from their sins and not place their trust in themselves. It’s a mystery that I call “two rebellions, one redemption.”
VK: The Bible records two rebellions against God – the angelic rebellion and the human rebellion. But the Bible records only one redemption. God made the plans and provisions to redeem a portion of the rebellious humans but not the rebellious angels.
RD: And I think we can learn a lot from thinking about this situation. And one thing we learn is that there is a strong inclination to continue in sin once that path is started. Satan and his demonic followers apparently became irretrievably locked into their rebellion once they started. And we find that same characteristic true of so many people in the Bible.
VK: We think of the Pharaoh that Moses confronted. Pharaoh and his army were ultimately destroyed when they tried to cross the Red Sea after God had parted it for the fleeing Hebrews. But they were chasing the Hebrews after they had seen God perform a series of 10 miracles including the death of the first-born of all the Egyptians. And we can think of the Hebrews in the desert who even though they had seen the miracles and the destruction of the Egyptian army decided to rebel against Moses’ leadership. We hear about this incident in chapter 16 of the book of Numbers in verses 25 and 26. “Then Moses, accompanied by the leaders of Israel, went to Dathan [DAY-THUN] and Abiram [AH-BEE-RAM]. He said to the people, “Get away from the tents of these wicked men and don't touch anything that belongs to them. Otherwise, you will be wiped out with them for all their sins.” And we can think of the destruction of the 10 northern tribes of Israel when they fell into idolatry and refused to give it up.
RD: Exactly. In fact, when we go through the Bible we find that there is one and only one thing that can be counted on to induce people to give up their sin: the word of God. For instance, one of the most wicked kings in Judah’s history was Manasseh.
VK: We hear a part of his story in 2 Chronicles, chapter 33, verses 9 through 13. “Manasseh [MAH-NA-SUH – just like Joe’s name] led the people of Judah to commit even greater sins than those committed by the nations whom the LORD had driven out of the land as his people advanced. Although the LORD warned Manasseh and his people, they refused to listen. So the LORD let the commanders of the Assyrian army invade Judah. They captured Manasseh, …, put him in chains, and took him to Babylon. In his suffering he became humble, turned to the LORD his God, and begged him for help. God accepted Manasseh's prayer and answered it by letting him go back to Jerusalem and rule again. This convinced Manasseh that the LORD was God.” That’s the Good News Translation.
RD: Manasseh repented of his sins when he remembered God’s word. And, of course, the most spectacular example of a sinner giving up his sin is when the Apostle Paul, when he was still called Saul, heard Jesus on the road to Damascus. Time and time again in the Bible we find out that it is God’s word that brings about a change in heart. Even in the classic story of the Prodigal Son the son only repents and returns home after he thinks about his father. So, I think when you put all this together we find out that only God and his word can restrain the growth of sin and return sinners to the path of righteousness.
VK: And God opened this path to human sinners by being willing to assume a human nature and then dying a terrible death on the cross. The Bible tells us that God made man in His own image. And after man sinned God took on, as the Bible says in Romans, chapter 8, verse 3, “the likeness of sinful flesh” to permit man’s redemption. This is a very powerful line of thinking. People on their own are going to be defeated by sin. Sin is so serious that people can’t successfully resist it. It takes the power and love of God to limit the growth of sin and to overcome its effects. But the good news is that God can and does overcome sin. The Apostle John said in 1 John, chapter 5, verse 4, “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.” We can overcome sin but we must emphasize that we can only do so through the power of God and His word.
RD: Sin is serious because it is contrary to God’s plans, commandments, and nature. So, how seriously we view sin is directly related to how seriously we take God. When we sin, when Satan sinned, we were saying to God that we know better than Him. That’s an unbelievably arrogant and foolish statement. Who can know more than the omniscient? Who can give advice to the One who gives the power to think in the first place? Who can instruct the Perfect Being that designed all of creation? These questions answer themselves. Yet, Satan, Adam, Eve, and all of Eve’s descendants have answered them by saying “we can.”
VK: People throughout history have substituted their judgment for God’s. But it never improves things when the finite tries to shove the infinite aside or replace His perfection with our imperfections. Satan was one of the most glorious beings ever created but he sacrificed his exalted status by seeking a status that belongs only to God almighty. While we don’t know for sure how Satan attempted to do that, we know that that kind of an attempt would never succeed. God is not only all-knowing He is also all-powerful.
RD: And that’s the point. We learn from the first sinner’s failure to achieve his plans that no plan formed against the Almighty will ever succeed. It could never succeed. But we also know from the history of Satan contained in sacred scripture that Satan never learned anything from his failure. Instead, all scripture tells us is that he digs his heels in further in what will be a futile attempt to resist the irresistible. The question is whether we will learn from the history of Satan, Pharaoh, and Manasseh. When Satan and the demons fell they locked themselves into eternal enmity against God. Pharaoh had the opportunity to repent but refused despite God sending some of the clearest warnings ever give to anyone. He died and tens or hundreds of thousands of his people died with him and because of him. Manasseh was a desperately wicked king but he was brought so low as to be imprisoned in a foreign land he remembered God’s word that God is merciful to those who repent. He humbled himself and repented and God restored him back to his land.
VK: What we all need to learn is that sin is serious, deadly serious. But we must also remember that deliverance from sin and its consequences is possible. But that deliverance cannot arise from purely human means. We need God’s word, God’s Spirit, and God’s power to come into our lives. We need to humble ourselves and repent just as Manasseh did. One of the most comforting lines in all of scripture is 1 John, chapter 1, verse 9. “But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.” That’s from the New Living Translation.
RD: Sin is serious because it alienates people from God. God never intended that. God has given us the Bible, his special revelation, so that we can understand both sides of the equation. As with the case of the Prodigal Son sin moves us away from God but God is always ready to forgive us and restore us when we realize that a life apart from God is a life in the pig pen of sin. No matter how much money we make, how many cars we have, or how many creature comforts we enjoy a life apart from God will never be fulfilling and whole. And a life of sin which remains without confession or repentance will only earn us a place in the lake of fire alongside the original sinner Satan. Sin is serious and deadly but God, through Jesus’ sacrifice, has made restoration available. If ignore that restoration then like Adam and Eve the only one responsible for our exile from a heavenly Eden will be ourselves.
VK: God created a creation that was without sin but he also gave free will to angels and men. Satan and his demons abused their free will and were ejected from heaven. Satan then brought his spirit of sin to the Garden of Eden and tempted Eve. All the holy angels were watching. Would Adam and Eve listen to God’s clear command or follow Satan’s serpentine suggestion to eat forbidden fruit? The choice was Adam and Eve’s. Sadly, for them and us, they ate and brought death, disorder, and disaster to a creation that had been “very good.” But man’s demise was never God’s plan and God immediately began a plan of redemption. That plan was the costliest possible to God. He had to sacrifice His only Son to make redemption possible. But a loving and merciful God made that sacrifice. If we ignore the benefits of that sacrifice we prove that we are more interested in following Satan than Jesus. That’s just plain crazy. We pray all our listeners will choose Jesus and life. This sounds like a great time to pray. It seems appropriate today to pray for the restoration of the worship of the One True God who is both the architect and builder of the temple of our salvation. Let us hasten into the temple and pray never to leave.
---- PRAYER FOR RESTORATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD (MARCUS)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Opening Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
The Gospel of John, Chapter 8, verse 44, New Living Translation

Episode 232 – Interview with Jay Ammerman
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.
The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18, verse 20. New Living Translation

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K in the studio and today we have a very special episode of Anchored by Truth. Today we’re going to hear the story of someone whose life is a true testimony to the saving power of Jesus and the Bible and to the power the Bible brings to our lives. As Anchored by Truth listeners know we believe that there are four lines of evidence that demonstrate that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. First, the Bible is historically reliable. Second, the Bible displays a remarkable unity for a book that was composed by over 3 dozen human authors who wrote over a span of 1,500 years. Third, the Bible gives evidence of supernatural origin especially through a large body of fulfilled prophecy. And the 4th line of evidence is that the Bible has resulted in an untold number of lives that have been positively changed by its transcendent message.
So today we’re going to hear the story of one of those lives. In the studio today we have Jay Ammerman. Jay has his own deliverance business. Jay delivers homeowners and businesses from nuisance critters that can be as destructive as they are cute. But Jay does so humanely by trapping them and transporting them far enough into the countryside where they won’t be a bother to people any more. But beyond Jay’s successful business Jay is in the final stage of finishing seminary because he has strongly felt the call of the Lord to full time service. And as you will hear it is a call that began early for Jay and persisted despite a life that would have its twists and turns. So let’s welcome Jay Ammerman, the owner of Black Thumb Services to Anchored by Truth. Jay, your story is frankly amazing. So let’s just jump right into it. What do you remember about your very first encounter with Jesus?
Jay: Thanks for inviting me to join you on Anchored by Truth.
- Introductory comments - From recording on June 9th
VK: How old were you when that happened?
Jay: Comments about being terrible with dates - From recording on June 9th.
VK: That’s both common and wonderful that you associate your first encounter with Christ with your grandmother. Too many people don’t realize what a powerful influence for Jesus that parents and grandparents can be. So what happened next in your walk with Christ?
Jay: Comments about high school and “comic book” Bible - From recording on June 9th. (That young man had the bull by the horns.)
VK: I think a lot of us can sympathize with that feeling. Young believers especially can get caught up in that early ecstasy of finding salvation and believing that God is calling them to something great. But as Jesus said “in this world we will have tribulation.” And that tribulation can be humbling. What happened next?
Jay: Comments about playing football. (I wasn’t going to be the man he wanted me to be.)
VK: How did that work out?

Jay: About like you’d expect. Comments about partying life. (A sin would rise up and I would try to wrestle it down and I would fail.) 7:25
VK: At some point during that period of your life you became a opiate addict. How did that happen?
Jay: Comments about developing opiate addiction (He Baker acted me with that statement)
VK: Some listeners may not know that the Baker Act is the Florida law that permits someone to be involuntarily committed to an institution for purposes of determining whether they are a danger to themselves or others. So, where did they send you?
Jay: Comments about developing being sent to the hospital under Baker act. (Where am I now?)
VK: Well, you’re at a pretty amazing place. You went into a mental hospital with an opiate addition and now you’re out without one. All due to God’s amazing grace. That’s just, well, amazing. What happened next?
Jay: Comments about coming home to the family. (He did it for us in a big way.)
VK: So, what did God do in response to your prayer to have a family come into the neighborhood?
Jay: Comments about Bumps and feeling the call. (proclaim his word to anyone who would listen.)
VK: And that is a feeling many of us have had. Certainly, Crystal Sea’s founder RD Fierro felt that when he launched Crystal Sea. Of course, the path to which God leads us may be different. What path did God choose for you?
Jay: Comments about being called to the seminary
VK: That is a truly amazing story. Do you have any final thoughts for our audience before we close?
Jay: Crystal Sea endorsement
VK: We’d really like to thank Jay Ammerman for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. I think we can all be inspired by the kind of faith Jay has displayed. Jay came to a saving knowledge of Christ Jesus through his grandmother’s inspiration and her pastor’s preaching. But as so often happens that was only the beginning of the story. And while we don’t all have the same kind of story Jay does all it takes to have a saving relationship with Jesus is to acknowledge our sin and acknowledge our need for a Savior. Jay’s life after her conversion has yielded a bountiful harvest for the Lord and continues to yield blessings to a great many even today. Jay’s story is just one more example of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer for combatting addiction. As in Jay’s case the best approach to seeking to slay any giants that seek to destroy us are to turn to Christ and seek His saving power. Christ can and does deliver his children by the power that He alone possesses.
---- PRAYER FOR COMBATTING ADDICTION
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Jay. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)

The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 18, verse 20. New Living Translation

Episode 233 – A Miraculous Christ 1 with Jay Ammerman
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
The Gospel of John, chapter 2, verse 11. New International Version

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K in the studio and today we are going to begin a new series on Anchored by Truth featuring Jay Ammerman. We heard Jay’s remarkable story in our last episode of Anchored by Truth – how Jay was delivered from an opiate addiction through his faith in Christ and how that beginning has led Jay to a place where he is almost finished with his seminary study. Jay’s very interesting life has included being an Army combat medic, working in a hospital, and owning a businesses that helps people who are troubled by nuisance critters - critters that can be as destructive as they are cute. But Jay does so humanely by trapping them and transporting them far enough into the countryside where they won’t be a bother to people any more. Jay’s life has included its share of twists and turns, but today Jay is in the final stage of finishing seminary because he has strongly felt the call of the Lord to full time service. So let’s welcome Jay Ammerman, the owner of Black Thumb Services to Anchored by Truth. Jay, your story is amazing – but the one constant throughout has been the presence of Christ. And when we met you we realized that Christ is such a powerful presence in your life that we thought it would be wonderful if you could share some of your passion about Christ with others. So, when we found out that one subject that you really wanted to discuss was the miracles that Christ performed as part of his earthly ministry it seemed like a good idea to get the show started by playing one of our Life Lessons with a Laugh on the miracles of Christ. So, let’s listen to one of those. This one has to do with Jesus’ first miracle which was to turn water into wine at the wedding at Cana.
 Life Lessons with a Laugh - Miracles of Jesus 1- Instant Grape Juice
VK: So, Jay what are some of the big lessons that we can all learn from Jesus’ first miracle when he turned the water into wine?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
VK: So, one point we should note about Jesus’ first miracles was that it was the first time that he displayed his divine power. Now other people in redemptive history such as Moses and Elijah had also done miracles but there was a sense in which Jesus’ first miracle was different, wasn’t there. Other people had acknowledged that it was God who was doing the miracle. But Jesus could do miracles himself because he is God, isn’t he?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
4:03 VK: And the fact that Jesus performed his first miracle at a wedding is also very significant isn’t it. I suppose that he could have done his first miracle anywhere but he chose to do it at a wedding. Why is that important?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
8:15 VK: That first miracle of Jesus was also significant in another way, wasn’t it? When Jesus turned the water into wine at the wedding it was also an example of Jesus - who is, of course, also God – demonstrating that God rewards faith. Right?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
10:30 VK: Well, one another thing that the miracle at Cana demonstrates is that God is a God who can exceed all of our expectations, right? I’m thinking about Ephesians, chapter 3, verse 20 where it says, [God] “is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us…”
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
13:15 VK: What do you think Jesus meant when he said to Mary that his time had not yet come. What time was he referring to?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
15:12 VK: So, - as we have been discussing - obviously two inescapable elements of Jesus’ first miracle are marriage and wine. And, of course, even today those two things are often found together. Marriages are still celebrated by toasts offered by the best man and then echoed by all those attending. And often those toasts are made with some form of wine. By turning the water into wine Jesus seems to have almost linked those elements together. Why is that? Why does it matter?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
17:40 VK: The last of Jesus’ famous “I am” statements in John was “I am the vine. You are the branches.” That’s found in the Gospel of John, chapter 15, verse 5 and that statement was made near the end of Jesus’ public ministry. Obviously, vines produce grapes and grapes are used to make wine. So, in a certain sense, Jesus has placed the fruit of the vine at the beginning and end of his public, earthly ministry. Why is that?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
19:05 VK: Perhaps one more thing we should note before we close for today is that Jesus meets people where they are. And so many of Jesus’ actions during his life we can still understand easily 2,000 years later. That’s pretty amazing isn’t it?
The miracle at the wedding at Cana really has a timeless dimension doesn’t it?
Jay: Comments - From recording on June 23rd
VK: We’d really like to thank Jay Ammerman for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. I think we can all learn lessons from the miracles that Jesus performed even though they took place 2,000 years ago. And frankly Jay’s life after his conversion is a great illustration of how Jesus continues to redeem destinies in our day and time. Jay’s story is just one more example of how sacred scripture –the Bible – continues to demonstrate its supernatural nature through lives that are changed for the better for all eternity by its saving power. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer for the renewal of the Church. Certainly, one of the prayers we pray most frequently and most fervently at Anchored by Truth is that God’s word will take an increasing role in the lives of his people and in the life of the church. The church cannot be salt and light to our culture unless it is securely anchored in the only real source of truth – God’s holy, inspired, inerrant, and infallible word – the Bible.
---- PRAYER FOR RENEWAL OF THE CHURCH (Vicky)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Jay. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)

The Gospel of John, chapter 2, verse 11. New International Version

Episode 234 – A Miraculous Christ 2 with Jay Ammerman
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.
The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 4, verses 24 through 26. New International Version

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VK: Hi! Welcome back to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K and in the studio today we are continuing the new series we began last time on Anchored by Truth featuring Jay Ammerman. Jay has a truly amazing story. After being an Army combat medic and enduring three deployments with front line infantry Jay came home and began working in a hospital. Unfortunately, he also returned from combat with an addiction to opiate pain killers. But he was completely delivered from that addiction through his faith in Christ. That has led Jay to a place where he is almost finished with his seminary study. As we can see Jay’s life has included its share of twists and turns, but his faith in Christ has grown so steadily that he has now been called by the Lord to full time service. So let’s welcome Jay Ammerman, the owner of Black Thumb Services to Anchored by Truth. Jay, your story is amazing – but the one constant throughout has been the presence of Christ. That’s why when we met you we thought it would be so amazing for you to share your passion about Christ with the listeners. And, when we found out that one subject that you really wanted to discuss was the miracles Christ performed during his earthly ministry it seemed like a good idea to get the show started by playing one of our Life Lessons with a Laugh on the miracles of Christ. So, let’s listen to one of those. This one has to do with how Jesus calmed a storm on the Sea of Galilee.
 Life Lessons with a Laugh - Miracles of Jesus 2- Big Wind
VK: So, Jay what are some of the first things we should learn from this very powerful demonstration of Jesus’ power over wind and water?
Jay: Comments about power -
2:30 VK: So, your first “P” is “power.” One thing we should note about Jesus’ miracle of calming the storm on the Sea of Galilee was that it was a clear display of divine power. And it’s important to note that Jesus could exercise divine power because Jesus was fully divine as well as being fully human. That’s an attribute that is true of no other religious figure or human being. Jesus could calm the wind and the waves because He had made the wind and the waves. Jesus could do miracles through His own power because he is God. How about your second “P” – promise?
Jay: Comments about promise -
5:40 VK: All right. We’ve covered two of your four “P’s.” The first P we see from Jesus calming the storm was that it was a display of divine power. The second P was that calming the storm was part of Jesus fulling the promise that he was going to get his disciples safely across what is well-known to be a temperamental body of water. So what is your third “P?”
Jay: Comments about peace -
7:30 VK: And Jesus is not just a source of peace, He is the source of all real peace. I like your point that Jesus calmed the storm on the sea so he could go and calm the storm that was raging in the man on the far shore. What a powerful statement. The demon possessed man did not know that peace was available but Jesus brought it anyway. But Jesus had to arrive for it to come. As Jesus’ disciples in the world today we have to be the ones who bring Jesus’ peace to those who need it but don’t yet know it’s available. So, what is your 4th “P?”
Jay: Comments about perseverance -
10:20 VK: Well, that’s a great point. Just because few of us don’t sail on the Sea of Galilee doesn’t mean we don’t have our own storms. We do. And Jesus will bring us peace in the storm if we turn to Him but we must turn with persevering trust. Too many times we want to turn the boat around as soon as we see dark clouds on the horizon. We must persevere with Jesus if we want His peace and power to calm our storms. Now you said RD asked you something when you two were talking about this miracle. What was that?
Jay: Comments about truth -
13:35 VK: RD often notes that truth must correspond with reality. If a truth claim cannot be shown to correspond to reality then we must reject it. And one of the great things about the Bible as you alluded to is that it does correspond to reality. Numerous archeological discoveries as well as an abundant body of scientific evidence supports the fact that the Bible’s history is reliable. Jay, do you have any final thoughts about the miracle on the Sea of Galilee?
Jay: Comments to wrap up – (NEED TO EDIT RAW TRACK TO JUST HAVE ONE SET OF FINAL COMMENTS)
VK: We’d really like to thank Jay for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. He’s given us some really great takeaways from this miracle. The miracle was an amazing display of Jesus’ power and it showed that Jesus not only can but does keep His promises. He suggested that the disciples go with Him to cross the sea and He was going to make sure it happened. And even though the disciples did not have peace immediately after Jesus calmed the sea they should have. The demon possessed man on the other side certainly experience peace after Jesus’ arrival. But we must stay with Jesus in the boat if we want to experience the blessings that He has for each of us. It takes perseverance to grow into Christian maturity – a lesson will illustrated in Jay’s life. Jay’s life after his conversion is a great illustration of how Jesus continues to redeem destinies in our day and time. The Bible has supernatural power and can change our lives for the better with that saving power if we will turn to it faithfully. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer for Christian missionaries - those who bring the saving power of the scriptures into places where it may never have been heard until their arrival.
---- PRAYER FOR CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES (Jay)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Jay. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)

The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 4, verses 24 through 26. New International Version

Episode 235 – A Miraculous Christ 3 with Jay Ammerman
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
… the people heard that [Jesus] had come home...Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
The Gospel of Mark, chapter 2, verses 2 through 5. New International Version

********
VK: Hi! Welcome back to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K and today we are going to continue a series we call “A Miraculous Christ.” We started this series a couple of episodes ago and this is a special series for us because we are featuring Jay Ammerman. Jay has an inspirational story that everyone should hear. After being an Army combat medic and enduring three deployments with front line infantry Jay came home and began working in a hospital. Unfortunately, Jay also returned from combat with an addiction to opiate pain killers. But our God is a God of healing and deliverance and God delivered Jay from that addiction. That delivery began a journey that led Jay to ultimately enter the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary from which he will shortly graduate. Jay’s life road has included its share of bends and curves, but Jesus has been with him for all of them. Jay’s faith in Christ has grown so steadily that he has now been called by the Lord to full time service. So let’s welcome Jay Ammerman, the owner of Black Thumb Services to Anchored by Truth. Jay, your story is remarkable – but the one constant throughout has been the presence of Christ. That’s why when we met you we thought so many people needed to hear it and hear about your passion to serve the Lord in whatever way He calls. When you told us that you would really like to help people think more deeply about the miracles Christ performed during his earthly ministry it seemed like a good idea to get your episodes started by playing one of our Life Lessons with a Laugh on the miracles of Christ. So, let’s listen to one of those. This one has to do with how Jesus responded to the loyalty of four very faithful friends.
 Life Lessons with a Laugh - Miracles of Jesus 3- Thru the Roof
VK: Well, Jay it’s hard to know what wild things are going to take place in one of our Life Lessons with a Laugh. So, what are some of the lessons that we can take away from Jesus healing the paralyzed man whose friends literally went through the roof for him?
Jay: Comments the historical foundation of Mark 2 -
2:57 VK: So, we have very good, early manuscript evidence that supports the historical accuracy of this miracle that Mark describes. But even beyond the fact that the manuscript evidence supports the historicity there is other compelling evidence isn’t there?
Jay: Comments about cultural context -
5:30 VK: What you’re saying is that the Jews of Jesus day should have been able to put 2 and 2 together and get 4. The had scriptures going back hundreds of years that said that the coming Messiah would be a miracle working figure and that He would perform miraculous healings. So, when Jesus began healing people that should have been a big clue as to who He was. But you also say that the geographic setting of the miracle is also important, isn’t it?
Jay: Comments about geographic factors -
6:30 VK: So, Jesus performed a very notable miracle in a place where word of the miracle was bound to spread quickly. As you said a lot of people were coming and going from Capernaum. And just like today people like nothing more than to pass news, so the people passing through would have heard the story and they would have carried it with them to their next stop. Well, when did this miracle take place within the context of Jesus’ public ministry?
Jay: Comments about miracle being early in Jesus ministry -
7:30 VK: So, Jesus performed a very notable miracle in a place where word of the miracle was bound to spread quickly and he performed it early during his ministry. This really helped establish the basis of his ministry which was going to be necessary as Jesus sought to help his disciples build their faith. How do we see that?
Jay: Comments about exegetical factors of the miracle -
9:40 VK: So the crowd contained seekers, skeptics, and spectators. That’s pretty similar to what we see all around us today. What do you see as being the big problem of the skeptics?
Jay: Comments about the skeptics of the miracle -
10:15 VK: But thankfully there weren’t just skeptics present that day. I mean the paralyzed man certainly had friends who seemed to believe in Jesus.
Jay: Comments about the friends of the paralyzed man -
12:00 VK: So the friends’ faith in God led them to overcome the obstacles that were in their way. That demonstrates that God rewards faith. So, earlier you said that Peter’s house was apparently close to the synagogue. Why is that important?
Jay: Comments about the house being close to the synagogue -
13:00 VK: What else should be noticed about the faith of the paralyzed man’s friends?
Jay: Comments about faith of the friends -
14:00 VK: What other observations do you think are important from Jesus healing the paralyzed man? Why is the story so significant?
Jay: Comments about Jesus being able to forgive sins -
end VK: Well, you’ve made some really powerful points here today, Jay. But the most important one is that Jesus has authority to forgive our sins and He is eager to do so if we will only acknowledge those sins and acknowledge that we want him to be our savior. And perhaps one thing we should emphasize before we close for today is that we are truly blessed if we have faithful friends like the paralyzed man in the story. There are going to be times in all our lives when we are going to need the support and strength of others. The paralyzed man was blessed by having such friends even before he received the even greater blessing of having his sins forgiven and his paralysis removed. This miracle is another illustration of why we all need to build and preserve friendships with other believers? We’d really like to thank Jay Ammerman for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. We can all still learn lessons from the miracles that Jesus performed even though they took place 2,000 years ago. As we’ve said before Jay’s life after his conversion is a great illustration of how Jesus continues to redeem destinies in our day and time. The Bible has been instrumental in changing Jay’s destiny and it can be instrumental in changing your destiny and the destinies of your friends. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer for our friends. We should all spend some time every day in intercessory prayer for our friends both inside and outside the church. And if we have friends who have not yielded their lives to Christ we must always pray for that time to come in their lives.
---- PRAYER FOR FRIENDS (June)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Jay. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)

The Gospel of Mark, chapter 2, verses 2 through 5. New International Version

Episode 236 – A Miraculous Christ 4 with Jay Ammerman
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. … A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened.
The Gospel of John, chapter 6, verses 16 through 19. New International Version

********
VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K and today we are continuing a series we call “A Miraculous Christ.” This is a special series for us because we are featuring Jay Ammerman. Jay has an amazing and inspirational story that everyone should hear. Jay was an Army combat medic and endured three deployments with front line infantry in Iraq. After his last deployment Jay came home but unfortunately he also returned from combat with an addiction to opiate pain killers. But our God is a God of healing and deliverance and God completely delivered Jay from that addiction over one Easter weekend. That delivery began a journey that led Jay to ultimately enter the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary from which he will shortly graduate. Jay’s life road has included its share of bends and curves, but Jesus has been with him for all of them. Jay’s faith in Christ has grown so steadily that he has now been called by the Lord to full time service. So let’s welcome Jay Ammerman, the owner of Black Thumb Services to Anchored by Truth. Jay, your story is remarkable. But one thing comes through for anyone who talks to you is your passion for Jesus and the Gospel. That’s why when we met you we thought so many people needed to hear your story and hear about your desire to serve the Lord in whatever way He calls. When you told us that you would really like to help people think more deeply about Christ we thought a natural place to start was with Christ’s earthly ministry. So, it seemed like a good idea to get your episodes started by playing one of our Life Lessons with a Laugh on the miracles of Christ. So, let’s listen to one of those as we begin today. And as we heard in our opening scripture this Life Lesson deals with the miracle of Jesus walking on the water.
 Life Lessons with a Laugh - Miracles of Jesus 4- Pond Walking
VK: Well, Jay obviously our founder, RD Fierro, cannot walk on water – nor can anyone else today. So, when Jesus did walk on the water in the midst of a storm it was further confirmation of His divinity. What other lessons do you want us to learn from this miracle?
Jay: Comments about the miracle of Peter, the boat, and Jesus -
:40 VK: I like that. This is a story about Peter, a boat, and Jesus – P, B, and J. I think that helps us get a good framework to organize our thoughts. But you say that to really have a good grasp on this miracle we also need to understand the background of the story. What do we need to know about the background of the miracle?
Jay: Comments about the background of the miracle of Jesus walking on the water -
2:30 VK: Wow. That’s a really powerful observation. When we think about Jesus walking on the water or performing any of His miracles we are tempted to forget that Jesus wasn’t just fully divine. Jesus was also fully human. So, when His close family member, John the Baptist, died he would have experienced grief just as any of us would. That’s one of the reason we can turn to Jesus in times of our own needs. He knows what it means to lose someone close. But, as you said, Jesus set aside His own grief because His great love for others was even greater than His concerns for himself. That’s an amazing thought to get us started. So, that’s the background of our PB & J story. Where do we go next?
Jay: Comments about PB & J -
3:20 VK: So, the first time a storm arose and the disciples were in a boat they didn’t do so well in terms of exhibiting faith, did they? Now we’re going to move on the 2nd time. But you say there are some things we need to know about the boat and where it was to be able to properly understand what’s going on.
Jay: Comments about the disciples confusion in the boat -
4:45 VK: So when the disciples saw the storm arise and Jesus wasn’t with them they would have had some reason for concern. And that concern would have been legitimate because several of the disciples had a lot of familiarity with the Sea of Galilee. They were fishermen and they had spent a lot of time out on this particular body of water. They knew it very well. And the Bible’s account says that they were a long way from land. And they had left Jesus on land. So, there’s no way they ever could have expected to get help from Jesus was there?
Jay: Comments about geography of the Sea of Galilee and background of the miracle -
10:35 VK: You know that some of those details put this story of the miracle in a whole different light. I think sometimes when we read the account we forget that this was a situation that would have been scary for anyone. They were on a large, deep lake in the middle of the night and a storm is raging. And they are tired. They’ve been fighting this storm for hours. I think a lot of people can identify with the state of the disciples at that moment. There are many among us who have been fighting storms in the dark for a long time. But that’s why it’s so important for us to understand these details, isn’t it. So we can learn lessons from the boat that we can apply to our own lives.
Jay: Comments about Jesus having sent the disciples into the storm and lessons from Peter’s experience -
13:38 VK: All that is both scary and comforting but it’s something we need to think about. If Jesus sends us out on a mission the storm may come but Jesus is greater than the storm. But as you said we must always be ready to call out to Jesus in the storm. A lot of us try to do what we know Jesus wants us to do using our own strength. But our strength will fail. We can only make it through the storms when we reach out to Jesus. What lessons can we draw from the fact that when the disciples couldn’t make it to Jesus, Jesus made it to them.
13:40 Jay: Comments about Jesus not leaving us or forsaking us -
15:00 VK: Well, Jesus reached out to Peter when Peter started going under the water, but as you noted Jesus did not put Peter into boat. What should we learn from that aspect of this miracle?
Jay: Comments about people needing to be in the boat -
15:33 VK: Well, let’s move on to the “J” part of the PB & J. What do we learn about Jesus from this miracle?
Jay: Comments about what we learn about Jesus -
16:40 VK: And before we close for today what are the big ideas that you want everyone to remember about Jesus walking on the water?
Jay: Jesus is Lord and we are not and we are not in the boat alone -
end VK: Well, perhaps one more thing we should note before we close for today is that we have a Savior who is able to save people even when we are facing the storms of life. Jesus will not fail us but we must learn to call out to him and continue to keep our eyes on Him even when the waters get rough. And we have to understand that we are all going to fail from time to time but Jesus does not abandon us when we fail. He just asks us to reach out to him and let him help us get back into the boat. This miracle is another illustration of why we all need to stay connected with our faith through daily prayer and Bible study? We’d really like to thank Jay Ammerman for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. We can all still learn lessons from the miracles that Jesus performed even though they took place 2,000 years ago. As we’ve said before Jay’s life after his conversion is a great illustration of how Jesus continues to redeem destinies in our day and time. The Bible has been instrumental in changing Jay’s destiny and it can be instrumental in changing your destiny and the destinies of your friends. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession. We should all spend some time every day in prayer seeking forgiveness for our sins and those of our neighbors and community.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION (MARCUS)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Jay. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)

The Gospel of John, chapter 6, verses 16 through 19. New International Version

Episode 237 – A Miraculous Christ 5 with Jay Ammerman
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
When evening came, his disciples went down to the lake, where they got into a boat and set off across the lake for Capernaum. … A strong wind was blowing and the waters grew rough. When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus approaching the boat, walking on the water; and they were frightened.
The Gospel of John, chapter 6, verses 16 through 19. New International Version

********
VK: Hi! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K and today we are continuing a series we call “A Miraculous Christ.” This is a special series for us because we are featuring Jay Ammerman. Jay has an amazing and inspirational story that everyone should hear. Jay was an Army combat medic and endured three deployments with front line infantry in Iraq. After his last deployment Jay came home but unfortunately he also returned from combat with an addiction to opiate pain killers. But our God is a God of healing and deliverance and God completely delivered Jay from that addiction over one Easter weekend. That delivery began a journey that led Jay to ultimately enter the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary from which he will shortly graduate. Jay’s life road has included its share of bends and curves, but Jesus has been with him for all of them. Jay’s faith in Christ has grown so steadily that he has now been called by the Lord to full time service. So let’s welcome Jay Ammerman, the owner of Black Thumb Services to Anchored by Truth. Jay, your story is remarkable. But one thing comes through for anyone who talks to you is your passion for Jesus and the Gospel. That’s why when we met you we thought so many people needed to hear your story and hear about your desire to serve the Lord in whatever way He calls. When you told us that you would really like to help people think more deeply about Christ we thought a natural place to start was with Christ’s earthly ministry. So, it seemed like a good idea to get your episodes started by playing one of our Life Lessons with a Laugh on the miracles of Christ. So, let’s listen to one of those as we begin today. And as we heard in our opening scripture this Life Lesson deals with the miracle of Jesus walking on the water.
 Life Lessons with a Laugh - Miracles of Jesus 4- Pond Walking
VK: Well, Jay obviously our founder, RD Fierro, cannot walk on water – nor can anyone else today. So, when Jesus did walk on the water in the midst of a storm it was further confirmation of His divinity. What other lessons do you want us to learn from this miracle?
Jay: Comments about the miracle of Peter, the boat, and Jesus -
:40 VK: I like that. This is a story about Peter, a boat, and Jesus – P, B, and J. I think that helps us get a good framework to organize our thoughts. But you say that to really have a good grasp on this miracle we also need to understand the background of the story. What do we need to know about the background of the miracle?
Jay: Comments about the background of the miracle of Jesus walking on the water -
2:30 VK: Wow. That’s a really powerful observation. When we think about Jesus walking on the water or performing any of His miracles we are tempted to forget that Jesus wasn’t just fully divine. Jesus was also fully human. So, when His close family member, John the Baptist, died he would have experienced grief just as any of us would. That’s one of the reason we can turn to Jesus in times of our own needs. He knows what it means to lose someone close. But, as you said, Jesus set aside His own grief because His great love for others was even greater than His concerns for himself. That’s an amazing thought to get us started. So, that’s the background of our PB & J story. Where do we go next?
Jay: Comments about PB & J -
3:20 VK: So, the first time a storm arose and the disciples were in a boat they didn’t do so well in terms of exhibiting faith, did they? Now we’re going to move on the 2nd time. But you say there are some things we need to know about the boat and where it was to be able to properly understand what’s going on.
Jay: Comments about the disciples confusion in the boat -
4:45 VK: So when the disciples saw the storm arise and Jesus wasn’t with them they would have had some reason for concern. And that concern would have been legitimate because several of the disciples had a lot of familiarity with the Sea of Galilee. They were fishermen and they had spent a lot of time out on this particular body of water. They knew it very well. And the Bible’s account says that they were a long way from land. And they had left Jesus on land. So, there’s no way they ever could have expected to get help from Jesus was there?
Jay: Comments about geography of the Sea of Galilee and background of the miracle -
10:35 VK: You know that some of those details put this story of the miracle in a whole different light. I think sometimes when we read the account we forget that this was a situation that would have been scary for anyone. They were on a large, deep lake in the middle of the night and a storm is raging. And they are tired. They’ve been fighting this storm for hours. I think a lot of people can identify with the state of the disciples at that moment. There are many among us who have been fighting storms in the dark for a long time. But that’s why it’s so important for us to understand these details, isn’t it. So we can learn lessons from the boat that we can apply to our own lives.
Jay: Comments about Jesus having sent the disciples into the storm and lessons from Peter’s experience -
13:38 VK: All that is both scary and comforting but it’s something we need to think about. If Jesus sends us out on a mission the storm may come but Jesus is greater than the storm. But as you said we must always be ready to call out to Jesus in the storm. A lot of us try to do what we know Jesus wants us to do using our own strength. But our strength will fail. We can only make it through the storms when we reach out to Jesus. What lessons can we draw from the fact that when the disciples couldn’t make it to Jesus, Jesus made it to them.
13:40 Jay: Comments about Jesus not leaving us or forsaking us -
15:00 VK: Well, Jesus reached out to Peter when Peter started going under the water, but as you noted Jesus did not put Peter into boat. What should we learn from that aspect of this miracle?
Jay: Comments about people needing to be in the boat -
15:33 VK: Well, let’s move on to the “J” part of the PB & J. What do we learn about Jesus from this miracle?
Jay: Comments about what we learn about Jesus -
16:40 VK: And before we close for today what are the big ideas that you want everyone to remember about Jesus walking on the water?
Jay: Jesus is Lord and we are not and we are not in the boat alone -
end VK: Well, perhaps one more thing we should note before we close for today is that we have a Savior who is able to save people even when we are facing the storms of life. Jesus will not fail us but we must learn to call out to him and continue to keep our eyes on Him even when the waters get rough. And we have to understand that we are all going to fail from time to time but Jesus does not abandon us when we fail. He just asks us to reach out to him and let him help us get back into the boat. This miracle is another illustration of why we all need to stay connected with our faith through daily prayer and Bible study? We’d really like to thank Jay Ammerman for being our guest on Anchored by Truth today. We can all still learn lessons from the miracles that Jesus performed even though they took place 2,000 years ago. As we’ve said before Jay’s life after his conversion is a great illustration of how Jesus continues to redeem destinies in our day and time. The Bible has been instrumental in changing Jay’s destiny and it can be instrumental in changing your destiny and the destinies of your friends. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer of corporate confession. We should all spend some time every day in prayer seeking forgiveness for our sins and those of our neighbors and community.
---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION (MARCUS)
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Jay. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)

The Gospel of John, chapter 6, verses 16 through 19. New International Version

Episode 238 – A Necessary God
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship. Day after day they continue to speak; night after night they make him known. They speak without a sound or word; their voice is never heard. Yet their message has gone throughout the earth, and their words to all the world.
Psalm 19, verses 1 through 4, New Living Translation
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time poet. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we are going to begin a new series where we focus on the central figure of the entire Bible: Jesus. That seems appropriate as we come to the time of year when we celebrate the Lord’s birth, doesn’t it RD?
RD: Well, Christmas is certainly a time of the year when people begin to more naturally think about Jesus because the reminders of him start to appear more and more around us every day. But, of course, it’s important to remember that we really should focus on Jesus every day of the year. For Christians, Jesus should be the focus of our daily lives. And actually throughout our lives we should be on a quest to get to know God better each day that is granted to us.
VK: I agree with that. So, today we’re going to start listening to a new Crystal Sea story. This time it’s one of our rhymed pieces that you wrote as a Christmas epic poem. This is actually the second installment of a story that you began a long time ago. You said you originally wrote the first installment because you wanted to give it as a gift to some co-workers?
RD: I did. Years ago when I worked in one of those big state agency buildings that are so common here I wanted to give Christmas presents to some of my co-workers but doing that in a state agency can sometimes be tricky. So, I decided that one present I could give was a little entertainment so I wrote a piece that was inspired by some of things that used to entertain the kids of my generation: Christmas poems and the short serial stories you used to see in the movie theaters before the main feature. Each of those film pieces would always leave you hanging so you had to come back every week to see what happened. So, I wrote a Christmas story in six parts and each part left you wondering what would come next.
VK: And then a few years ago you decided that the story needed to continue so you wrote the next installment of what is going to be, when completed, a poetic trilogy. The story began in Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree, Komari’s Quest. The story continued in The Golden Tree, Eagle Enigma. Today, we are beginning the final part of the trilogy. Here is part one of The Golden Tree, The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part I
VK: I really like some of the lines from that part. “Where the lights soared in the vault overhead and proclaimed indescribable glory as if the heavens could not but proclaim their omnipotent Creator's story.” Not only are the lines lyrical but they also evoke such clear imagery. I can imagine kids sitting around their mom and dad …

RD: Or grandmother and grandfather...
VK: Or grandparents and listening to this recording with them - just like families used to sit around and listen to someone read The Night Before Christmas. Of course, that’s one of the reasons we wanted to put this poem out there. To give families an entertaining story that also would allow parents to discuss their faith with their kids.
RD: Exactly. There are so many questionable choices these days that are advertised as being “family friendly” but they are based on a secularist view of the world. We wanted to be sure that there was a story that was available for “fireside” listening that directed everyone’s attention to the real “reason for the season.”
VK: Well, there are a total of seven parts to Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. So, for the next six weeks we’ll be letting the story unfold as we continue to unpack insights into how the Bible is such an integral part of being able to frame a coherent world view. I mean the two fundamental attributes that you believe would have to characterize any book that would constitute a genuine special revelation of God are that that revelation would have to be consistent with the created order as it is observable by creatures within it – essentially us. And that revelation would have to display supernatural origin.
RD: Right. As hard – or as exciting – as it may be to comprehend empirical observations, combined with logic, tell us that the visible universe does not – indeed cannot – provide an explanation for its own existence. The universe, as grand and vast as it is, has all the fingerprints of having a beginning in space and time. Also, the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy, tells us that it will have an ending. Anything that has a limited life span, no matter how long some people might conceive that light span to be, cannot be self-existent. Only a self-existent being or entity can account for its own existence or the existence of anything else. Some philosophers use the terms Necessary Being and Contingent Beings to describe the difference between the two.
VK: And since the universe is not eternal it looks very much like it is contingent on something or someone outside itself to account for its existence – a Necessary Being upon which it is dependent. And we call that Necessary Being God. So just like the bears in our story when we see the northern lights or stars twinkling in a deep night sky we can know that that the starlight - and the night sky and especially our ability to see and understand all that grandeur - points to the need for a Creator. And we’ve seen that the bears we’ve just met aren’t the first bears who have lived in this land. It was actually their ancestors who left their home and shortly we’ll learn they were searching for the lair and throne of their Creator – who they thought of as the Great White Bear.
RD: Yes. I think the symbolism for the story is already pretty plain but I would like to point out one thing - and that’s what I want to spend some time on today – is that the bears who set out on their quest wouldn’t ever have started out if they weren’t convinced that the Great White Bear existed. And that’s one of the problems that we see reflected so clearly in today’s very relativistic culture. Too many - far, far, far too many people today, both inside the church and out, are defeated in their own quests because they have been misled to believe that there is no Creator – no Great White Bear if you will. As a result, they see the world as fundamentally being either chaotic at best or outright meaningless at worst.
VK: I think you need to expand on that thought a bit. You’re saying that God isn’t just a logical necessity to explain the existence of a contingent universe, but that an awareness of God is an essential component of us being able to comprehend our place in that universe?
RD: To quote what I say in some of our humorous Life Lessons with a Laugh - exactamundo.
VK: So you’re quoting yourself. Sounds like something only a writer would do…
RD: Again, exactamundo. Anyway as the eminent theologian RC Sproul used to say, “Ideas have consequences.” The idea that the universe was framed by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and holy God carried with it the inextricable notion that the universe has been created intentionally and for a purpose. As such the universe would display design and order and the intelligent creatures within that universe – us – could perceive that design and order.
VK: And that very concept formed the foundation for what we think of as science today. And that’s why many of the founders of modern science – like Sir Isaac Newton and Louis Pasteur were strong Christians. They were convinced that there was design, order, and logic in universe because the universe had been made by a being that was supremely purposeful and logical. As such, they were encouraged to go and discover that order and use the results of it to improve the lives of the people around them. Or said a little differently they were encouraged to go on their own quests to discover more about the creation and thereby appreciate even more the Creator.
RD: So all that made perfect sense. If the universe had been created by a God of order, logic, and purpose then creation would be comprehensible. Those early giants of science took seriously the Biblical statement that man had been made in the image of God, so they felt sure that God would bless their efforts at applying themselves to understand what he had created. But one of the tragic effects of the success of their work and the amazing results they achieved is that over time – and now we’re talking about centuries not decades – the work of science became divorced from the original source of the inspiration for them to do the work. Scientists – not all, but a great many – became convinced that it was possible to understand creation while ignoring the Creator.
VK: Or said slightly differently, they sought the blessing without regard to the Blesser. So, one of the points you’re making is that somewhere along the journey – the quest – for discovery, a lot of people forgot why the journey was begun in the first place. And that is reflected in our society and culture today.
RD: Yes. And Christmas is a great example of that same phenomenon happening in our calendar and celebration of the common understanding that was the foundation of our communities. The word “Christmas” obviously derives from the words “Christ” and “mass.” And one of the big reasons that gift exchanges became a part of the celebration was in commemoration of the great gift that God had given the world in the birth of Jesus. And, of course, the whole reason that God gave us the gift of Jesus was because after the fall in the garden of Eden God had begun his great plan of redemption. So, in a very real way the history of all of mankind gives evidence of God’s plan unfolding in exactly the way God intended.
VK: And you believe that even some of the more tragic of the things that we see around us provides evidence for the existence of God and the truth of scripture?
RD: Yes. C.S. Lewis noted that one of the things that convinced him to become a Christian was that he couldn’t get over the idea that some things were right and some things were wrong. But then he realized for that idea to make sense – that there’s a difference between right and wrong – he had to have an explanation for where that idea came from. Why did he think that there was a real distinction? Of course, the only logical conclusion was because there was a Being – a God somewhere – who had established the whole moral and ethical scheme to begin with. That’s just as true today as it has ever been.
VK: That’s a pretty remarkable idea when you think about it. The very notion that we have ethical sensibilities to begin with is dependent on there being a real difference between right and wrong. And not just a matter of personal convenience like preferring squash to broccoli. When people begin to assert that something is wrong they don’t just mean that they find it inconvenient. They mean that there is a determinable ethical distinction that compels – or should compel – our behavior. And we all know that. Anyone who doesn’t know that there is a difference between right and wrong we would describe as a sociopath.
RD: And we would have good reason for doing so. Now in saying this we’re not saying that there is universal agreement on the precise details of what’s right or wrong and different societies at different times have arrived at varying conclusions about the specifics. But there’s never been a society that didn’t make some kind of a distinction regardless of what they did with the specifics. In some cultures the distinctions might have been ones that we would consider trivial – like acceptable dress for women and men. In other they would have been more profound or serious – like the relationship between a government and its people or whether private ownership of property is permitted or prohibited. The rules have varied but every culture, tribe, and nation has had rules of some sort.
VK: And pretty much all people everywhere know that they have – at one point or another – violated those rules. Written or unwritten. Government or cultural. Religious or secular. We have an inherent awareness that as moral and ethical agents we have certain obligations that we are subject to. So we see that not only is there a physical order to the physical universe there is also an ethical order that applies to us as people. But without there being a God, a holy and purposive God, we would have no reasonable explanation for the existence either of the obligation or the sense that we need to be accountable the obligation. And that same sense that tells us that we are subject to the obligation tells us that we have all fallen short.
RD: Right. We all know that we’re not perfect, but to know that means we know that somewhere there is a standard against which that determination can meaningfully be made. That’s why Jesus had to come and why the Christian claim that Jesus was perfect, was sinless, is so essential. Again, to refer to Sproul again, RC used to say that if he was in a discussion with someone who just refused to acknowledge the existence of God, one of the final questions he would ask such people is what they did with their guilt.
VK: And we all have guilt. And some of us feel it far more keenly than others. If we don’t have Jesus, if we don’t know Jesus, then we’re the only ones who can shoulder that guilt. But the moment we understand that the Perfect Man, Jesus, has willingly taken our guilt onto his own shoulders, we can start to become free of that guilt. And that’s one of the keys to beginning and completing our own quests through life. As we talked about a long time ago on Anchored by Truth, understanding the Bible provides context and meaning to our lives. Knowing that God himself made a provision for our imperfection removes the need for us to continue to feel guilty forever. Knowing that Jesus is our savior is the truth that sets us free.
RD: And that’s one of the things we really want to focus on as the days unwind toward Christmas. We want to take a close look at how we can be sure that Jesus isn’t a mythological figure, but instead is a real person who was born, walked and lived at a specific place and time, and died. But then he demonstrated that he was God’s atoning gift by walking out of the grave and appearing to a group of women first and then to his disciples. If Jesus wasn’t a real person who did those things we would have absolutely no hope for being justified before a perfectly holy God. A mythological figure, no matter how charming, couldn’t save anyone. But Jesus did and does. So, as we conduct our own quests through life, if we’re pursuing worthwhile ends we can be confident that they aren’t futile. There is a meaning to our individual lives even when those lives are set against the backdrop of an unimaginably grand cosmos. The Bible and Jesus give us that meaning. As Augustine famously said, “Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.”
VK: Sounds like it’s a great time to have a prayer. Since we’re approaching Thanksgiving how about if today we listen to a prayer for that special day when we turn our attention to the goodness that God has shown to us.
---- Prayer for Thanksgiving –
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
Psalm 19, verses 1 through 4, New Living Translation
(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” Augustine, Confessions
https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/media/articles/ourheartisrestlessuntilitrestsinyou/
https://www.proginosko.com/2019/07/reforming-apologetics-common-notions/

Episode 239 – Jesus Beyond the Bible
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, are only a small village among all the people of Judah. Yet a ruler of Israel, whose origins are in the distant past, will come from you on my behalf.
Micha, Chapter 5, verse 2, New Living Translation
Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the reign of King Herod.
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 2, verse 1, New Living Translation
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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time barista. He turns on the coffee maker and puts in those little cups. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we are continuing our series where we focus on the earthly birth and life of Jesus. In today’s culture, it seems as though just about everybody has heard about Jesus, but fewer and fewer people actually know much about him. Do you agree with that RD?
RD: Yes. Jesus’ name is certainly well known in modern culture but unfortunately there is as much or more misinformation that circulates about him than there is actual fact. I’m afraid that more people get there information about Jesus more by watching television specials or dramatized movies than they do from reading the Bible or studying the many fine, well-documented books and articles that have been produced by excellent Christian scholars through the years. That’s the bad news. The good news is that for those who are truly interested in knowing the actual, historical Jesus it’s probably easier today than any time in history to get accurate information. But you do have to be careful about the sources you use.
VK: So, today we want to continue to provide the listeners to Anchored by Truth with a head start on doing their own study about Jesus. As you have so often said, Jesus is the centerpiece of both the Bible and the plan of redemption. So, to be confident not only in our own faith but to help those who are still looking for anchors for their own lives it’s imperative we know the real Jesus of the Bible. But before we get too deep into our discussion how about telling us a little about the Christmas poem that we’re going to continue today?
RD: I’d love to. As I mentioned in an earlier episode of Anchored by Truth, years ago when I worked in one of those big state agency buildings that are so common here I wanted to give Christmas presents to some of my co-workers but doing that in a state agency can sometimes be tricky. So, I decided that one present I could give was a little entertainment so I wrote this piece that was inspired by some of things that used to entertain the kids of my generation: Christmas poems and the short serial stories you used to see in the movie theaters before the main feature. Each of those film pieces would always leave you hanging so you had to come back every week to see what happened. So, I wrote a Christmas story in six parts and each part left you wondering what would come next. That story became The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest. It was about a group of koala bears who had gone on a quest to the far north to find their creator that they called The Great While Koala Bear. The bears never found their creator but they did find a golden tree in the artic that made a valley a perfect place for them to live. Well, later on I created a new story that I called The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma and we’ve followed that up now with another Golden Tree story – the Frost Lion. In part one of Frost Lion that we heard on our last episode we’ve learned that there are two young bears confronting a dilemma they believe might threaten their village. From a vantage point at the top of a tall hill near their town they have seen a strange shape out on the distant snow – but they don’t know who or what the shape is.
VK: Alright then. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part two of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 2
VK: The drama is now building. What we’ve heard is that bears have enjoyed the peace and plenty in the valley for generations but now a new bear from a strange land is in their midst – and that bear is very near death. Worse this new bear has a friend who is still lost in the deep winter snow and may already have died. So, the bears are learning - just like in the real world – that there are always unexpected events in this world that may require us to respond. And it may take real courage to confront those events …

RD: And commitment and sacrifice...
VK: And it’s hard to have those virtues if we don’t know why we’ve been sent on our own quests, isn’t it? I mean, God’s grace has saved us just like the Golden Tree saved the bears. But as the Apostle Paul said to the Philippians they had to. “work hard to show the results of [their] salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. For God is working in [them and us], giving [them and us]the desire and the power to do what pleases him.” God’s grace saves us but our sanctification requires effort on our part.
RD: Right. The old song there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus than to “trust and obey.” Part of that obedience is to be able to tell others why we believe that Jesus was qualified to be our savior. And that starts with us being assured that Jesus was a real, historical figure – not a myth or some kind of pious concoction. In our day and age one of the semi-criticisms that’s hurled against the Christian faith is that the Jesus that Christians worship is either a mythological figure or – if he even existed – that we can’t trust the gospel accounts for information about him.
VK: But the truth is that Jesus was a real person. And we see that from passages like the ones we used for our opening scriptures. In these passages we can see that the Bible tells us specific facts about Jesus like where he was born – in Bethlehem – and when – during the reign of a king named Herod. But beyond even what scripture tells us Jesus life is a fact that is even confirmed by sources outside the Bible isn’t it? And that’s what you wanted to focus on today, right – the fact that we have historical sources besides the Bible that confirm Jesus’ historicity and even confirm many of the details contained in the gospels about his life, death, and circumstances?
RD: Right. In some earlier episodes of Anchored by Truth we’ve discussed the fact that you can use the existence of the physical universe and apply logic and reason to come to the conclusion that there is a self-existent being responsible for the creation of the universe and of living creatures. But that line of reasoning can only carry you so far in an understanding of God and it would give us almost no information about other attributes that are essential parts of the Christian faith such as the plan of redemption or Jesus’ role in it. For that, we need a special revelation from that self-existent being – God – and fortunately we have that in the Bible. But we need to be persuaded that that revelation is true and reliable and once again logic, reason, and evidence can play a role in validating the Bible’s claim that it is the inspired Word of God. And that’s where extra biblical sources can be helpful. Such sources don’t add anything to the Bible, but they can add to our individual confidence that the Bible is describing history accurately when it speaks of historical events.
VK: So, today you want to take a brief look at some other historical sources that also confirm that Jesus was a real historical figure. You know when you think about it, it’s remarkable that there would be any other surviving sources outside the Bible who would mention Jesus. In his day and time – if Jesus hadn’t been the Son of God – he would have been just another obscure and unimportant itinerant preacher that had a brief public ministry in a distant Roman province. He never led an army, held a prominent government or political position, or even wrote a book. Plus, his public ministry only lasted about 3 years and he didn’t travel all that widely. His public ministry was all conducted within 100 miles of his home. And he died the death of a common criminal. So, if Jesus wasn’t who he claimed to be – the Son of the Almighty God – he should have faded from the pages of history as just another local crank. But he didn’t. He’s mentioned by some of the most important historians of his age, men who had far more earthly distinction that he did. Where do you want to start?
RD: Let’s start by talking about a few examples of well-known Roman historians who are widely regarded as having written important histories of the Roman Empire and conquests. The examples that we’re going to use today came from an article available on the website coldcasechristianity.com entitled “is there any evidence for Jesus outside the Bible.” We’ll put a link to the article on the notes that accompany the podcast version of this show. But these examples are all widely known and can be found in any number of historical reference sources. So the first example we want to use is a quote from Cornelius Tacitus was well known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116 AD, he describes the Roman Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”
So, in this account, Tacitus confirms that there was a man who lived in Judea, was known as Christ, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and who had followers who called themselves by his name and were persecuted for following him.
VK: Well, this account is helpful because it directly confirms a number of details directly about Jesus. But it’s also important for another reason, isn’t it? A few episodes ago we talked about the fact that Luke and the other gospel writers were meticulous when it came to their historical recording and reporting. So much so that they got some obscure details right, even when other ancient historians got them wrong. So, this quote from Tacitus helps illustrate that point too, doesn’t it.
RD: Very good. That’s pretty impressive. You noticed that Tacitus called Pontius Pilate the procurator of Judea not the prefect.
VK: Thank you. I try.
RD: And you’re absolutely right. As good a historian as Tacitus was he was human and in this case he did make a mistake. He got Pilate’s title wrong. For many years there were questions about the existence and the actual title of Pontius Pilate—the Roman governor who presided over the trial of Jesus. Later Roman writers, as well as almost all Bible reference works, referred to Pilate as the “procurator” of Judea but Luke and the other gospel writers called Pilate a “governor;” not a procurator. The fact that “governor” was the correct title was confirmed in 1961, when a two by three foot stone was discovered that had a Latin inscription. The translation of the inscription reads as follows:
Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, has presented the Tiberieum to the Caesareans.
This find was not only archaeological confirmation for the existence of Pilate but it was also confirmation that Pilate was the Prefect, or governor, of Judea.
VK: In fact, we now know that the title “Procurator” was not used at the time of Jesus’ trial for the Roman governors. This title only came into usage at a later time, during the reign of the emperor Claudius, A.D. 41-54. During Claudius’ reign the title of the Roman governors shifted from Prefect to Procurator. So although Tacitus was correct about the title in use for the Roman governor of Judea at the time he wrote – about 60 years later - strictly speaking that was not Pilate’s actual title when he supervised the trial and execution of Jesus. Pilate was a prefect, a governor, not a procurator – a fact the Bible writers got right. So, who’s next on the list of extra-Biblical writers?
RD: Well, before we close for today we should probably take a quick look at one of the most famous of the ancient historians, Josephus, because he lived so close to the time of Jesus and during the period of early church’s formation. Josephus lived from 37 AD to 101 AD. The most widely accepted year for the crucifixion is 33 AD so he was born just four years after the crucifixion. He wrote an extensive history of the Jews in 93 AD called “the Antiquities of the Jews.” So today when you see people referring to it you often just hear people call it “Antiquities.” Josephus wrote about Jesus in more detail than any other non-biblical historian and Josephus himself was a really interesting character. He was a consultant for Jewish rabbis and became a Galilean military commander by the age of sixteen. He was an eyewitness to much of what he recorded in the first century A.D. As a Jewish military leader he initially fought against the Romans but later surrendered and he eventually became an adviser to the Roman emperor Vespasian. Under Vespasian, Josephus was allowed to write a history of the Jews. This history includes three passages about Christians, one in which he describes the death of John the Baptist, one in which he mentions the execution of James (and describes him as the brother of Jesus the Christ), and a final passage which describes Jesus as a wise man and the messiah. There is some legitimate controversy about the writing of Josephus, because of the timing of the discovery of his writing but why don’t you read a conservative scholarly reconstruction of one of Josephus’ most famous passages.
VK: “Now around this time lived Jesus, a wise man. For he was a worker of amazing deeds and was a teacher of people who gladly accept the truth. He won over both many Jews and many Greeks. Pilate, when he heard him accused by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, (but) those who had first loved him did not cease (doing so). To this day the tribe of Christians named after him has not disappeared.”
RD: Now there are some other ancient versions of Josephus’ writing which are even more explicit about the nature of Jesus’ miracles, life and his status as the Christ, but from even this conservative version we can conclude: Jesus lived in Palestine, was a wise man and a teacher, worked amazing deeds, was accused by the Jews, crucified under Pilate and had followers called Christians. Josephus’ observations are particularly compelling because at the time he wrote he was very close in terms of timing to when Jesus lived. Even though he wasn’t like the apostles who actually walked with Jesus he could see around him the effect of the early church’s spreading and he may even have had the opportunity to talk to Jews who had been in and around Judea when Jesus had his public ministry.
VK: Well, those two examples are a good introduction to the fact that Jesus’ earthly life has confirmation outside the Bible. Next time we can take up a few more examples but before we close for today a few general observations would seem to be in order. And you said that the early church itself is a confirmation that Jesus was a real, historical figure?
RD: Exactly.
VK: I’m surprised you didn’t say what you do in some of the Life Lessons with a Laugh - exactamundo …
RD: Ok. Exactamundo. Anyway, there is no dispute that in the first century AD Christians and the Christian church began to be an issue within the Roman Empire. They were so widely known that the emperor Nero blamed the great fire of Rome on them. Well, it would be impossible to explain the spread of a movement if there wasn’t something or someone who started the movement. Remember that the Romans weren’t known for being timid administrators of their provincial empire and in the first century AD they certainly weren’t friendly to Christians. So, something remarkable must have happened in the early part of the first century AD in Judea that animated so many people to continue carrying the same message throughout the empire despite the official opposition they encountered everywhere. There are two simple reasons for this phenomena. First, they were persuaded something truly remarkable had happened. A dead man had risen from the grave and walked around for 40 days. And second, they had a source of support and strength – the Holy Spirit – who sustained them as they carried their message to a world that needed it but didn’t want it.
VK: Well, all that makes perfect sense. As Paul said to the Romans the same power that raised Jesus from the dead also empowers us and gives us the ability to carry on in his name. Sounds like a perfect time to go to prayer. Since we’re approaching Thanksgiving how about if today we listen to a prayer for that special day when we turn our attention to the goodness that God has shown to us.
---- Prayer for Thanksgiving –
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
Micha, Chapter 5, verse 2, New Living Translation
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 2, verse 1, New Living Translation

(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/
https://alwaysbeready.com/extrabiblical-historical-sources-corroborate-the-bible/
https://crossexamined.org/why-should-we-trust-the-extra-biblical-references-to-jesus/

Episode 240 – Jesus Beyond the Bible Part 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Now it came to pass in those days, there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment made when Quirinius was governor of Syria. ... And Joseph also … to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David; to enroll himself with Mary, who was betrothed to him, being great with child. …while they were there… she [gave birth].”
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 2, verses 1 through 6, English Revised Version

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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time health consultant. He buys the cough drops we keep in the studio for people to use during recording. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we want to continue our series where we focus on the earthly life and ministry of Jesus. And we want to continue listening to Crystal Sea’s epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. Today we’re coming to part three of the poem where the action starts to get a little more intense. Is that a fair statement, RD?
RD: I think so. For any listeners who weren’t able to be with us for our last couple of episodes we should tell them that The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is a poem that is written in the style of some classic Christmas stories. It was also written using the model of the old-time movie serials that they used to play when I was a kid and you went to the theater on Saturday afternoons. Before the movie they’d give you the latest installment of an ongoing saga. Each episode would end with the heroes and heroines left in a precarious position so next week you’d come back and plunk down another quarter or two. So, to get ready for part three listeners need to know that the epic is all about a group of small koala bears who live in a valley in the arctic. A group of the bear’s ancestors settled in the valley because in the center of the valley is a golden tree that transforms the valley into a place where they can live and thrive. They’ve been there for several generations but in the current Christmas season an unexpected challenge has come to their valley, the tree, and their lives. Two of the town’s teenage bears, Koest and Kopaul had gone to a hill to look at the northern lights. While on the hill they saw a new, strange bear staggering through the snow. At first they weren’t sure if this new bear posed a danger but since the new bear was so close to death they brought him back to Koest’s home where Koest’s mother, Koray, began attending to the bear. But they still don’t know anything about the new bear. Where did he come from and why is he here? And what does he want?
VK: Alright then. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part three of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – part three.
---- The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma – Part 3
VK: Ok. As the old timers …

RD: Like me...
VK: Right… used to say, “the plot commences to thicken.” The bears who live near the Golden Tree have found out that they have distant relatives who don’t know about the Golden Tree or even the Great White Bear. But a couple who still did believe in the Great White Bear decided to attempt the quest that others had tried long ago. But now their quest is in danger because one of them has almost died and the other one is lost in a vast arctic wilderness – a wasteland for anyone who’s not near the tree.
RD: Right. And sometimes those of us who live in today’s post-modern culture can feel that way – that we are living in a wilderness that has lost sight of our true Creator. That’s why it’s such a good idea for mature believers to listen to or read stories to the kids or grandkids because they can introduce those kids or grandkids to the real struggles that life contains and help prepare to them to be overcomers. And of course the best strategy for being an overcomer is to be so familiar with the truth that lies and deception become immediately identifiable.
VK: And of course that’s why we do Anchored by Truth – to remind people that the Bible, in the words of Psalm 46, is a “very present help in time of trouble.” But people aren’t likely to turn to the Bible to help them in times of trouble if they aren’t confident that the Bible is reliable and trustworthy. So that’s why we focus on using evidence and logic to demonstrate that we have very good reasons for believing that the Bible is the very Word of God.
RD: Yes. Everybody, at some point in their life, is going to ask the question, “Why am I here?” It’s one of the most obvious questions that arise from the human experience. But, whether most people realize it or not, the answer to the question, “why am I here,” is inexorably tied to three other questions. Is there a God? If there is a God, does He communicate with people – or said slightly differently, “Is the Bible the Word of God.” And, if there is a God and the Bible is His word, can I learn about my life, my needs, and my purpose by studying the Bible? Of course at Anchored by Truth we think that the answer to all three questions is a resounding “yes.” But we would just as quickly admit that, unless people are convinced that the Bible is more than just an aggregated collection of fairy tales and myths, they are unlikely to find the Bible relevant to their lives.
VK: I notice that you said “study the Bible” not just “read the Bible.” What you’re observing is that understanding the Bible, confidently and contextually, demands effort. Right? I mean that sort of runs against the old method of letting the Bible fall open and then reading the first verse that comes to your attention.
RD: Well, I wouldn’t try to restrict the Lord’s ability to communicate to any particular person any way He chooses. But randomly or haphazardly reading selected portions of the Bible isn’t likely to help people answer the question, “Why am I here?” I am fully persuaded that the Lord will reveal Himself to anyone and everyone who seeks to truly know Him. But our relationship with the Lord – who is after all first and foremost a person – is just like our relationship with others in our lives. The quality of our relationship will be dependent on the quality and quantity of time we spend with the Lord. And because the Bible was written in a different time and era we need to do some study on the times, customs, and cultures that form its setting. And, unfortunately, because so much misinformation circulates in our own culture today about what the Bible is or isn’t, contemporary Christians need to arm themselves by being able to respond to certain common errors.
VK: Such as the erroneous assertion that Jesus wasn’t a real person. That he didn’t live a real life, eat, walk, and sleep like normal human beings. And that, despite being fully human, he didn’t also demonstrate that he was fully divine by rising out of a stone tomb after being killed by the most powerful empire on the earth at the time. So, that takes us back to our review of some examples that Jesus’ earthly existence is confirmed by sources outside the Bible. Last time we took a look at two examples of other ancient historians who mentioned Jesus in their histories: the Roman historian Tacitus and the Jewish historian Josephus. Both are considered reliable historians. Both wrote their histories within a relatively short period after Jesus’ earthly life. And both wrote accounts that confirmed some of the details in scripture. Where do you want to start today?
RD: Well, let’s take a look at another Roman historian, Suetonius. Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):
“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christ], he [Claudius] expelled them from the city [Rome].” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)
This expulsion took place in 49AD. In another work, Suetonius wrote about the fire which destroyed Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians for this fire and he punished Christians severely as a result:
“Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.” (Lives of the Caesars, 26.2)
So from these quotes we can see that the awareness of Jesus had spread all the way to Rome less than 20 years after Jesus died. The awareness was so strong that the emperor had taken personal notice of Jesus’ followers and apparently felt the need to try to minimize their influence in the capital city.
VK: And again, just to remind everyone of what we mentioned last time the fact that Roman historians and even Roman emperors would take notice of Jesus is remarkable. It wasn’t as if Jesus had led a conquering army that was threatening to lay siege to Rome or even one of his outlying provinces. And Suetonius’ observation that the Christians had a “new and mischievous religious belief” is particularly fascinating. When you think about the pantheon of gods with which the Romans were thoroughly familiar – not only their own gods but also the Greek gods and the gods of all the people they’d conquered – when you think about the vast variety of religious beliefs with which they were acquainted what could be considered “new and mischievous?”
RD: Well, of course, many scholars believe that Suetonius was likely referring to the physical resurrection of Jesus. Obviously, the Romans were well familiar with various beliefs of life after death, but those belief systems never included a person – a flesh and blood man – walking around, talking, eating, and even touching other people after being crucified. That was new and novel.
VK: Still is. I’ve never seen it though I thoroughly believed it happened. Who’s next?
RD: Well, take a look at two sources who wrote about Jesus but for whom we don’t have any copies of their writings: Thallus and Phlegon.
VK: Well, if there are no existing copies of their manuscripts how can we know what they wrote?
RD: Because just like today, there were other writers who did read what they wrote and preserved some of their material by quoting it in documents they were preparing. Just like someone may not have attended a political event, but they can know part of what the speaker said by reading quotes in articles written by people who were there. In Thallus’ case, parts of his histories were preserved by Julius Africanus who wrote around 221 AD. In Phlegon’s case, not only did Julius Africanus record some of his material but so did Origen who was an early church scholar and theologian.
VK: So what observation did Julius Africanus preserve from Thallus’ writings that pertain to Jesus?
RD: Well let me read a quote from Julius Africanus:
“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)
So Thallus had written more than one book of history but in at least one of his books he took note of the darkness and earthquake that accompanied Christ’s crucifixion. This parallels precisely the account that Matthew gave us in Chapter 27 of his Gospel.
VK: And Luke also wrote about the darkness. The Gospel of Luke, chapter 23, verses 44 through 47 say: “And it was now about the sixth hour, and a darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, the sun's light failing: and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said this, he gave up the ghost. And when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly, this was a righteous man.” So, it is very interesting that a secular historian like Thallus would mention the same detail that is present in Matthew and Luke. And if I remember correctly Thallus’ observations are particularly important because many scholars believe he wrote around 52 AD. In fact, he may have been the earliest secular writer to comment on the events surrounding the crucifixion. Well, what about Phlegon?
RD: Well let me read three quotes. This first is one preserved by Julius Africanus and the second two were preserved by Origen:
“Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth to the ninth hour.” (Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)
“And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place … ” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 33)
“Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 59)
So in these quotes we several things of significance. First, Phlegon confirms the darkness mentioned by Matthew, Luke, and Thallus. Second, he confirms that Jesus was crucified and he gives us a specific time reference: during the reign of Tiberius. And third, he confirms the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus including that he showed the marks of his crucifixion to those to whom he appeared.
VK: Well, that’s even more amazing because now we know that the secular historians of the 1st and 2nd century AD were not only aware of Jesus’ life and ministry but they were also familiar with many of the details that surrounded his death and resurrection. But that does raise a question. Since Julius Africanus and Origen were both admitted Christians is it possible that they fabricated the quotes they attributed to Thallus and Phlegon?
RD: It’s not impossible, but why would they have done that?
VK: I think critics would say they would have fabricated the quotes to make their case for the truth of Christianity stronger.
RD: Well, if they had attempted to do that it would actually have had the opposite effect in their day and time. First, remember that even though copies of the writings from Thallus and Phlegon are no longer extant today, they were in existence at the time Julius Africanus and Origen wrote and quoted from them. So if they had fabricated quotes or deliberately misquoted them their fraud or errors would have been easily detectable. Second, Africanus and Origen were writing at a time when there was substantial official opposition to Christianity. In other words they were writing in a hostile world. As such, they would have taken even greater pains to be sure that they wouldn’t be subject to easily refuted assertions. Third, Origen’s quotes of Phlegon came from a work entitled Contra Celsum or in English Against Celsus. So Origen was writing a work to refute the claims of Celsus who wrote a work entitled The True Doctrine. The True Doctrine was likely written under the authority of a Roman emperor was critical of Christianity. Since accuracy was essential to his refutation of Celsus’ book, most scholars agree that Origen is a reliable source for what Phlegon said. Why would Origen have handed his opponent an easy method for dismissing Origen’s criticisms?
VK: That all makes a lot of common sense and it points to a broader implication of the extra-Biblical sources that you’ve been citing. None of the observers themselves, including Thallus or Phlegon, were friendly to Christianity. So theirs were essentially the observations of hostile witnesses. As such, when they confirm details of the Biblical account their testimony of Jesus’ life has even greater weight. If they thought that Jesus was a fraud or a fabrication it would have been very easy for them just to not mention him.
RD: And one more point to note before we close. In these episodes we haven’t been able to cover all the extra-Biblical sources that there are that confirm Jesus’ life, ministry, and death. There’s a book called The Historical Jesus by Dr. Gary Habermas that contains a much more exhaustive treatment of this subject.
VK: And – again – we wanted to point listeners to all these resources, including the links we put on our podcast notes, to enable them to continue their own studies about the life and ministry of Jesus. As we said at the start of this episode, to answer the question “why am I here,” we need to understand why any of us are here. And how we got here. Those questions are directly related to what we think about God and Jesus. So let’s close with prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of the One who leads into a knowledge of truth, the Holy Spirit.
---- Prayer for Adoration of the Holy Spirit
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest are available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the English Revised Version)
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 2, verses 1 through 6, English Revised Version
The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 23, verses 44 through 47, English Revised Version

(Sources used for this episode or other in this series)
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/
https://alwaysbeready.com/extrabiblical-historical-sources-corroborate-the-bible/
https://crossexamined.org/why-should-we-trust-the-extra-biblical-references-to-jesus/

- ManEpisode 241 – Jesus – Man and God Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script Notes: “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.” The Gospel of John, Chapter 6, verse 35, New Living Translation “I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you won’t have to walk in darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life.” The Gospel of John, Chapter 8, verse 12, New Living Translation ******** VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time pastry consultant. He buys the cookies we keep in the kitchen. Though to be fair I’m the one who makes sure we don’t run out of animal crackers. Anyway, today on Anchored by Truth, as we start to celebrate the Christmas season, we want to continue our series where we focus on Jesus. And we want to continue listening to Crystal Sea’s epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. Today we’re coming to part four of the poem where we now hear about the seemingly unsolvable quandary that is confronting our bears. So do you want to tell us where we are in the story, RD? RD: I’d love to. For any listeners who weren’t able to be with us for our last few episodes we should tell them that The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is a poem that is written in the style of some classic Christmas stories. It’s the third of the Golden Tree series. The first segment is called The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and the second part was called The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma. Both of these earlier parts of the saga were also written using the model of the old-time movie serials that they used to play when I was a kid and you went to the theater on Saturday afternoons. Before the movie they’d give you the latest installment of an ongoing saga. Each episode would end with the heroes and heroines left in a precarious position so next week you’d come back and plunk down another quarter or two. So, to get ready for part four listeners need to know that the epic is all about a group of small koala bears who live in the arctic. Even though they are in the arctic they live near a Golden Tree that creates a peaceful and fertile valley. The bears’ ancestors discovered the Golden Tree after they had left their homes down under and went searching for their Creator that they called the Great White Koala Bear. The bears have lived near the Golden Tree for generations. In all that time they had never met another bear from the land their ancestors left – but that has now changed. A new, strange bear named Roleb was rescued by a pair of young bears, Koest and Kopaul, and brought to Koest’s home. Once there, Roleb told the bears he had friend who was traveling with him but that friend is now lost in the arctic wasteland. Two of village elders, Kodan and Kojon are trying to figure out if there is a way to save Roleb’s lost friend before it is too late … which it might already be. VK: Alright then. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part four of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree, The Frost Lion – part four. ---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 4 VK: Wow. So, the bears figured out how to summon an ice eagle … but can this ice eagle help them? Will this ice eagle help them? It doesn’t seem like this ice eagle is all that friendly at this point.

RD: I guess folks will just have to tune in next week and see what happens... VK: I’m starting to see why the movies played those serial episodes before they played the main feature. RD: Well, as a kid the trick was not to not eat all your popcorn during the serial. Otherwise, you didn’t have any left to enjoy during the feature. It helped if you had enough money to buy a large bag. No buckets in those days. VK: Today I think some of us need to worry about waistlines more than money… RD: No comment. VK: Anyway, maybe one of the lessons we can learn from the bears is that we need to understand that challenges to our faith can come to us at any time. We need to be prepared to intelligently respond to them. And Ephesians 6:17 does tell us that the sword of the Spirit is the Bible, the Word of God. That’s one of the big reasons we try to encourage people to develop the habit of staying in the Word. It’s the best way for us to cope with our own ice eagles. So, where do you want to go today as we resume our study of Jesus’ earthly life? RD: Well, in our last couple of episode on Anchored by Truth we talked about some examples of extra-Biblical sources that confirm that Jesus was a real person who lived and died in Judea during the early part of the first century AD. But, naturally, the only thing that the secular writers could write about was the human dimension of Jesus. If secular writers were our only source about the life of Jesus we could know some important details about him, but we would completely miss the most important fact about Jesus: that Jesus was not only fully human but that he was also fully divine. VK: And here is where a lot of headaches begin. How can one person be both God and man? I think it’s safe to say that many Christians – even serious and devout ones – have trouble with that concept. So, let’s go over some of the basics of historical, orthodox Christian theology – the Trinitarian nature of God and the dual nature of Jesus. A lot of confusion arises because people don’t understand what Christians mean when they refer to the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. So, let’s start there. RD: Well, let’s acknowledge right at the start the limitations of human language and the incomprehensibility of God. Humans are finite. God is infinite. So, there is no way any human or group of humans is every going to be capable of exhaustively understanding or explaining the nature of the God or the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. That doesn’t mean we can’t know some true things about God and develop an awareness of the miracle of the incarnation, but it does mean that mysteries will always remain. But that the fact that mysteries will always remain doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t apply ourselves to develop a full-orbed understanding of God insofar as we are able. VK: And it also means that we should always approach these subjects in a spirit of reverence and prayer, right? I mean the one Person who can help us grow in our understanding is the very Person we’re seeking to understand. So, what does the doctrine of the Trinity refer to? RD: Orthodox, Christian theology believes that the Bible refers to one God, but acknowledges that God exists eternally as three divine Subsistences or Persons. The classic proof text for the Trinitarian view of the Godhead is Matthew 28:18 and 19 which says: “Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” A slightly different way of explaining this is that God is singular in nature but three in person. By contrast, Jesus, the 2nd Person of the Trinity, is singular in person but has two natures. Jesus is both fully human and fully divine. And the classic formulation of this that came out of the Council of Chalcedon is : ” Jesus Christ is truly God and truly man, having two natures inseparably united in one divine person without confusion, mixture, separation, or division. Each nature retains its own attributes.” VK: So, those views explain why Christians still believe in one God – we’re monotheistic – but we also believe that within the Godhead there are three distinct Persons who have a relationship with each other. Grappling with these concepts is challenging to say the least. RD: And that’s the reason we have to always be willing to acknowledge that even though the church has classic formulations like the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds that help amplify the basics, these doctrines will always contain a certain amount of mystery for men. We’re back to the plain fact that finite man cannot fully understand or explain an infinite, Triune God. VK: So, how do our opening scriptures relate to this who discussion? At least on the surface, while Jesus is certainly providing some really comforting assurances to his disciples – such as that he will provide for them and protect them like a shepherd does his sheep – how do these verses demonstrate that Jesus was claiming to be God? RD: In English, the claim is not as obvious as it was in the language in which John originally recorded his Gospel, Greek. You see the Greek words that are translated as “I am,” in “I am the bread of life,” and in the other scriptures we heard are two Greek words: ego and eimi. And these are exactly the same words that God used when He made declarations about himself in the Old Testament. VK: As in the declaration that God made to Moses when Moses was standing before the burning bush recorded in Exodus 3:14? Let me read that part. But Moses protested, “If I go to the people of Israel and tell them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ they will ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what should I tell them?” God replied to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you.” God also said that Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.” RD: Exactly. The Septuagint translators when they translated the Hebrew “Yahweh” which came from the word for “I am” translated it by a combination of two different Greek words used for the verb “to be:” ego and eimi. So in Jesus’ time the phrase ego eimi came to be synonymous with the name for God. In Hebrew, Yahweh. In Greek, Jehovah. So, when the Apostle John recorded what Jesus said about Jesus being the bread of life or the light of the world, John used the phrase “ego eimi” for the words “I am.” Many scholars think that when Jesus identified himself with the “I am,” He was directly proclaiming to his followers that he was the same as the one who appeared to be Moses. But there are other references in the Old Testament to which Jesus may have been pointing to make the same point. Michael J. Krueger, who is a New Testament scholar and President of the Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, has shown that there are number of “I am” references in chapters 40 – 55 of the book of Isaiah that unmistakably point to God. Let’s listen to a couple of examples, Isaiah 41: 4 and 43:10: Isaiah 41:4 Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he (ego eimi). Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he (ego eimi). Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. The “I am he” in these passages is translated in Greek by ego eimi. VK: So, when Jesus said he was the bread of life or the light of the world he was going beyond simply giving metaphors for the provisions that he was making for his people? He was saying that one of the reasons his followers could have confidence in the promises that he was giving was because he was God. And as God whatever he promised he had the irresistible power to fulfill. I’m starting to get another headache when I think about that. Imagine, listening to someone standing before you who was saying “I am the light of the world,” - meaning he would give you all the light and wisdom you would ever need – and then realizing that the one making the promise was the who made light to begin with. That’s a staggering thought. RD: And it gets even more staggering. Remember that on Anchored by Truth we have often talked about the fact that logic and empirical observations demonstrate that the universe was created by a self-existent Being. We call that Being God. We can arrive at the need for a self-existent Being to explain the existence of the universe and everything in it, just by making some informed observations. In other words, as people we have the ability to deduce the existence of a self-existent Being or God just by exercising our reason and intelligence. Well, when God said to Moses that his name, God’s name, was “I am” he was identifying himself by using the attribute of self-existence. God was simultaneously exalting Moses by saying “you’re standing in the presence of the One who made everything,” and God was condescending to the level of man by communicating to Moses in a way Moses could understand. God was also pointing out that Moses should be aware of His existence because Moses own intellect and intelligence would have revealed the need for God even God had never chosen to communicate with him directly. VK: And the same thing would have been true of the people listening to Jesus, wouldn’t it? Only now, rather than the people listening to a voice out of a burning bush, they’re hearing those words from a man standing in front of them. And many, if not most, of them would have seen Jesus perform miracles so they would have known that when Jesus spoke, he was speaking the truth. But I think you have one more point that you’re making with the line of reasoning aren’t you? RD: Exacatamundo… VK: Exactamundo, again ... RD: Ok. Precisely, if you prefer. Think about it. By making empirical observations and exercising a little logic and reason we can arrive at the conclusion that the universe was created by a self-existent Being – God. But where did we derive the ability to make those observations? Where did we get eyesight that could see the sun and stars? Where did we get the intellect and reasoning ability to design instruments that could amplify our own observational capabilities like telescopes or microscopes? Where did we get the reasoning ability to understand that an effect demands a cause and that the law of non-contradiction is an essential element in reasoning correctly? Where did we get the ability to write and use language and make and retain records so we could pass words and observations down over thousands of years? And not just the records of the Bible but the other records that we examined on Anchored by Truth the last couple of times by secular observers who affirmed that Jesus was a real man who lived in Judea at a particular time in history. VK: So the point you’re making is that the same God who designed and created the universe with all its marvelous complexity and order also created us in such a way that we could perceive Him. And you’re saying that that same God came to various men at different points in history – to Moses and Isaiah in the Old Testament, to Matthew, John and others in the New Testament – to leave us a record of His appearances in this world. So, you’re saying that God designed man so that man could recognize not only the design in nature but also the design in God’s plan for human history. The plan that we call the plan of creation, fall, and redemption. Oh, all that is either super scary or super exciting. RD: Rather like the disciples in the boat when Jesus calmed the storm or Moses when he was in front of the burning bush, an immediate confrontation with the undeniable presence of the Almighty is simultaneously terrifying and thrilling. Unfortunately, today too many people deny themselves that experience of reverential awe that comes from truly grappling with the authentic nature of God. VK: And only the Bible gives us what we need to understand that nature. And we all need to have a better understanding of that nature. Because when we gain it we will find out that God is not only an awesome and mighty God but He is also a loving and merciful God who has made provisions for us to have eternal fellowship with him by placing our faith in Jesus as our Savior. So let’s close with prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for the first person of the Trinity, our heavenly Father. ---- PRAYER OF ADORATION OF THE FATHER VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma are available from our website. If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the English Revised Version) The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 2, verses 1 through 6, English Revised Version The Gospel of Luke, Chapter 23, verses 44 through 47, English Revised Version

(Sources used for this episode or other in this series) https://www.ligonier.org/about/who-we-are/what-we-believe/ https://www.michaeljkruger.com/why-does-jesus-use-the-phrase-i-am/ https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/10-things-yahweh-means

Episode 242 – Jesus’ Attributes Were Not “Borrowed” Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script Notes: “Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying.” The Gospel of John, Chapter 11, verse 25, New Living Translation “Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.” The Gospel of John, Chapter 14, verse 6, New Living Translation ******** VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time event planning consultant. He rearranges the chairs in the conference room when we have meetings. Today on Anchored by Truth, as we approach Thanksgiving and Christmas, we want to continue our series where we focus on the life and ministry of Jesus. And we want to continue listening to Crystal Sea’s epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. Frost Lion is the third part of the Golden Tree trilogy. The first installment of the Golden Tree saga was The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest and copies of it are available from our website which is crystalseabooks.com. Even though we’re playing Frost Lion on our broadcasts and podcasts it has not yet been released for people to get their own copy but that will happen in the near future. Today we’re coming to part five out of seven of the poem. So, we’re getting close to bringing it home, right RD? RD: We are indeed. For any listeners who weren’t able to be with us for our last couple of episodes we should tell them that The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is a poem that is written in the style of some classic Christmas stories. It was written in seven parts and each part ends in a sort of cliffhanger. So, now that we’re at part five we’re pretty deep into the story. But just as a quick refresher The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion is about a group of small koala bears who live in the Artic in valley that’s green and warm because in the middle of the valley is a Golden Tree that keeps the valley warm and fertile. They’ve been there for several generations but just as Christmas season is approaching two teenage bears, Koest and Kopaul, were on a high hill near their town when the spotted a dark shape crossing the snow and ice. The strange shape turned out to be a bear named Roleb. Roleb came from the village their ancestors had left many generations ago and had travelled with a friend who got lost. Roleb and his friend were travelling to the arctic to search for help for their village which had lost its faith. Thanks to the wisdom of the village elders, Kodan and Kojon, the bears have been able to summon an ice eagle. But what can this ice eagle do? What will this ice eagle do … if anything? VK: Sounds like we’re getting to the good part. So, let’s continue with the story. Here’s part five of Crystal Seas’ Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree, The Frost Lion. ---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 5 VK: Ok. So, the bears from the village have now found Roleb’s lost friend. But it’s too late. Roleb’s friend has died from the cold. So, it seems as if Roleb’s whole journey to the north has been for nothing. That seems very sad – if that was how the story ended. But, of course, it hasn’t ended yet. So, maybe all hope isn’t lost. And, knowing you, the answer to finding out whether anything can be done for Roleb and his friend is …to tune in next time.

RD: That sounds like a brilliant suggestion. And maybe listeners could gather some family members to join them ... VK: Sounds even better. Listening to Golden Tree as a family could be a great way for parents or grandparents to connect with their kids and help them develop their faith. It would also make a great centerpiece for a home school study group or church youth group discussion about the role that courage and commitment play in the Christian faith – something that’s particularly relevant as we get closer and closer to Christmas. RD: Right. Somebody once said that the Christian faith is so simple that even children can comprehend enough about it to understand the plan of salvation. But even though we can begin with the faith of a child we should pursue the goal of developing a truly mature faith. God will meet us and help us wherever we are in our faith journey but He isn’t satisfied with leaving us at the starting line. Hebrews 12:2 says that Jesus doesn’t just initiate our faith. He also wants to perfect it. And part of perfecting our faith is ensuring that we understand what the Bible tells us about Jesus. VK: Well, so far we’ve seen that there are extra-Biblical sources that confirm that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived and died in Judea during the time period described by the Bible. But we’ve also seen that as helpful as it is to know that there are secular sources that confirm Jesus’ life that those sources aren’t enough to tell us everything that we need to know about Jesus. We can only get a complete revelation about Jesus from God’s special revelation to people, the Bible. And as we saw in our last episode, and again in today’s scriptures, Jesus’ statements about himself tell us something pretty important: that Jesus is not only fully human but also fully divine. RD: Yes. And so that takes us to the next subject that we need to talk about as we are focusing on the life of Jesus in preparation for celebrating his birth at Christmas. VK: And that is... RD: And that is - that because Jesus is the central figure not just of Christianity, but also the entire Bible, one of the criticisms that’s sometimes directed toward Jesus is that the attributes that the Bible assigns to Jesus were borrowed from other cultures or religious sources. So, Christians need to be familiar with some of the assertions that Jesus’ deeds, especially his miracles, were simply drawn from other religious myths or pagan characters. VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about? RD: Sure. It is has been alleged that Jesus’ miraculous conception isn’t a unique belief. For instance, critics will say that the mythological figure, Hercules, was also supposed to be the son of a divine father – in this case Zeus - and a mortal mother. VK: But, of course, there are significant differences between Hercules purported conception and Jesus. In the Greek legend Hercules mother was named Alcmene (ALK-MEN-EE). Zeus was supposed to have taken on the human form of Alcmene’s husband and deceived Alcmene and slept with her. And that’s how Hercules was conceived. That’s not nearly the same thing as Jesus being born of Mary while Mary was literally still a virgin. RD: The differences are even more pronounced. Hercules was actually the Roman name of a hero the Romans adapted from the Greek Heracles. According to the Greek legend, Heracles’ mother Alcmene was simultaneously pregnant with Heracles by Zeus and his half-brother Iphicles by her husband. And that’s only the beginning of the legendary aspects in Alcmene’s pregnancy with Heracles. So, as soon as you get beyond the superficial similarity and look at the details, the notion that Jesus’ conception was somehow an adaptation of the Heracles/Hercules myth falls apart. But this is a good example of one kind of obviously fallacious attack that’s directed against the historicity of Jesus. VK: So, what you’re saying is that one form of attack that’s leveled at Jesus has to do with a particular attribute of Jesus and then trying to find a parallel somewhere else in a different religion that is obviously false. The critics then try to discredit the life of Jesus by saying that if story A is false, then story B must be false also. RD: Right. But that makes as much sense as saying that if there are two $5 bills on the table and one is counterfeit, the other one must be also which is just silly. So, sometimes the supposed pagan origin of the details of Jesus earthly life and ministry are concerned with specific attributes of Jesus, such as his virgin birth. But sometimes the copycat thesis is less concerned with the specifics of Jesus life and more concerned with generalities that might be associated just about any supernatural figure. VK: Again, do you have any specific examples in mind? RD: For instance, since sickness and disease are obviously a plague on human existence... VK: No pun intended… RD: No pun intended… anyway, the ability to bring miraculous healing would be expected to be a staple of myths or legends. And it is. For example, Asclepius or Asklepios was a Greek demi-god who was the god of medicine. He was supposed to have raised Hippolytus from the dead, though he was killed by Zeus for doing so. Asclepius was supposed to be the son of the god Apollo and a human mother. Buddha was also supposed to have been able to cure the sick. VK: But again, these kinds of general miracle workings of mythological characters vary considerably from the information we have about the miracles that Jesus performed. For instance, in the case of Jesus curing Peter’s mother we have precise details of the location where the miracle was done, the people involved, and even a pretty close approximation to the timing. And many of Jesus’ healings involved specific details that conform to the religious and cultural conventions known to exist. Such as when he healed the lepers and then told them to go show themselves to a priest which was required by Jewish law. And Jesus’ healing miracles weren’t always the cause for celebration the way you would expect of a miracle like when Jesus restored the eyesight of the man born blind. The blind man was rejected by the religious leaders and cast out by them. RD: Exactly. The descriptions of Jesus’ miracles read like historical accounts because they are. Again, the key to drawing distinctions between Jesus’ miracles and those general sorts of miraculous powers that are associated with the pagan sources is in the details. The Bible accounts provide the details and in the majority of cases there are multiple eyewitness accounts. But the case of Buddha provides another way of refuting the claims that the Bible’s descriptions of Jesus are drawn from other sources. The earliest known account of Buddha’s life was written in the 2nd century AD so it came after Jesus and not before it. That’s also true for another supposed religious figure who supposedly served as the source for many of the details of Christ’s life, Mithra. In Mithra’s manifestation during the Roman period he was supposed to have been born on December 25th, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, had a final meal before he died, and rose from the grave after 3 days. VK: And since Mithra was a religious figure that was known to come from the Persian culture, modern day Iran, supposedly he was the inspiration for much of what the disciples taught about Jesus. Right? RD: Right. The earliest mention of Mithra is around 1400 BC so as a religious figure Mithra would pre-date Christ by a considerable time period. But the problem is that the attributes of the Iranian version of Mithra do not correspond to the Roman version. The Roman version of Mithra is best known for slaying a bull whereas there is no known connection to bull slaying in the Iranian version. And a lot of the supposed correspondences between Christ and Mithra appear in the Roman version and the dating of the correspondences is after Christ. VK: So, many scholars believe there might have been some cross pollination between Christ and the Roman version of Mithra but given the timing of the appearance of the similarities it’s far more likely that the legends of Mithra borrowed from Christianity and not vice versa. RD: And that would have been fair because there was one way that Christianity did borrow from Mithraism, in art. In the early part of the 3rd century AD (313), the Roman emperor Constantine issued the edict of Milan which accepted Christianity. Before then the Roman emperors had generally been very hostile to Christians. Within 10 years Christianity had become the official religion of the empire. But by then Mithraism seems to have also gained a strong foothold within the empire as well. In the third and fourth centuries, the Roman church officials seemed to have embarked on an effort to prove that their faith was the superior one, embarked on an advertising campaign. One commentator said their efforts were “reminiscent of our soft drink wars. Mithra was depicted slaying the bull while riding its back; the church did a lookalike scene with Samson killing a lion. Mithra sent arrows into a rock to bring forth water; the church changed that into Moses getting water from the rock at Horeb.” VK: That sounds suspiciously like the law of unintended consequences. The church officials in the 3rd and 4th century went on a campaign to prove that Christianity was superior to Mithraism and 1,600 years later the church now has to defend itself against the claim that Jesus’ life and ministry were the copycat version. RD: I think that’s an excellent observation. And let’s close out with one more, quick example. In Hinduism Krishna was also supposed to have had a miraculous conception so some critics point to that legend as a possible inspiration for the Christian tenant. VK: But in that case, Krishna’s ‘miraculous conception’ is his mom being impregnated by ‘mental transmission’ from his completely human father. Again, not remotely similar to the Bible’s description of how Mary became pregnant. RD: And to add to that – how credible is it that the first Christians, who were largely Jews from Palestine, would have borrowed a legend from a thousand miles away. At a minimum the Jews were fiercely monotheistic whereas Hinduism is distinctly polytheistic. So, this again points to the need to not only examine the varying details of alleged instances of borrowing but also consider the cultural factors that would have been in play. Often either chronological or cultural factors alone will be enough to refute the alleged possibilities. To go back to our earlier example with the money, when new bank tellers are being taught to spot counterfeit dollars they aren’t given lots of counterfeits to study. They’re given lots of real bills to feel and handle. The idea is that if the tellers get so used to touching and handling the real thing, the fakes will become instantly recognizable. That same approach will work when it comes to being able to answer many of the criticisms that are addressed at Christianity and Jesus. VK: And that’s a good lesson for all of us. The more time we spend studying scripture – and developing familiarity with the details of the people, the nations, the geography, the culture – not only will we be able to be confident in our own faith. But we will also be able to point other people to the truth. RD: Precisely. Myths and legends read like myths and legends. They have fantastic details that have little or no correspondence to things in the real world. Good common sense enables us to quickly see elements that don’t make sense in our experience. By contrast, the history contained in the Bible reads like good histories that we see elsewhere. There are specifics about people, places, times, and events and quite often either archeological finds or extra-Biblical records will provide information that helps confirm the Biblical record. VK: Sounds like a great time for a prayer. Today since we’re so close to Christmas let’s listen to a prayer about that special day. ---- Prayer for Christmas VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we continue our discussion of the reality of Jesus’ life. We hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. Also, we’d to remind listeners that copies of The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest are available from our website. If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation) The Gospel of John, Chapter 11, verse 25, New Living Translation The Gospel of John, Chapter 14, verse 6, New Living Translation The Gospel of John, Chapter 15, verse 5, New Living Translation (Sources used for this episode or other in this series) https://creation.com/pagan-copycat-thesis-refuted http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/pagint.php http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.php

Episode 244 – Jesus and the Great Commission
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
The devil took [Jesus] to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 4, verses 8 through 10, New International Version
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author and founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time event lighting technician. He straightens out the cords on the Christmas lights before we put them up. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to finish up our current series where we have focused on the life and historicity of Jesus. And we’re going to hear the last installment of our seven part, epic Christmas poem The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion. When we left off last time the koala bears who live in the arctic village that surrounds the Golden Tree had just encountered the Frost Lion for the first time in their history. The bears have lived in the valley surrounding the tree for many generations and had heard of the Frost Lion but this is the first time they have ever seen him. And they have only seen him now because the lion has chosen to come to their village. Why did the Frost Lion choose to come to their village now, RD?
RD: Well, the biggest reason that the Frost Lion has chosen to enter the bears’ village at this time is because something else has happened to the bears for the first time in their generations around the tree. For the first time since the bears have lived in the village they have had visitors from their ancestral homeland. A bear named Roleb and his travelling companion had made an arduous journey to the north because they were concerned about the state of their village’s faith. Roleb’s travelling companion died just before they could reach the village. Roleb himself was almost at the point of death. They had known that their quest to travel to the great far north would be dangerous but they had made it because their homeland had lost its faith in the bears’ creator who they thought of as the Great White Koala Bear. To try to preserve their own tribe’s faith the two bears from down under had gone searching in the arctic even though they were mocked for doing so. Fortunately for them, two teenage bears from Golden Tree village had spotted Roleb just as he collapsed on the snowy wastelands outside their village. This had kicked off a search for Roleb’s friend. With the aid of a Great Ice Eagle, Gabriel, they had found the friend but he had just died. But when they brought the friend back to the village the Frost Lion was there. But no one knows what the Frost Lion can do – and no one knows what the Frost Lion will do …
VK: So, it’s time to find out what happens to Roleb, and his travelling companion in this Christmas epic poem: The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion.
---- The Golden Tree: The Frost Lion – Part 7
VK: So, the Frost Lion was able to raise Roleb’s friend from the dead. But I hope that most listeners noticed that the Frost Lion didn’t just stop with restoring the life and health of the two bears down under. The Frost Lion began the process of addressing the deeper need – the fact that the bear clan down under was losing its faith. So just like Jesus did after His resurrection the Frost Lion commissioned missionaries from the Golden Tree village to carry the good news back with Roleb and his friend. Obviously, the message you are sending through this poem is that we live in a day and age when many people in our own clans are losing, or have lost, their faith. And we need to be missionaries to our family and friends. Because if we aren’t who will be?

RD: Yes. And for any listeners who haven’t heard the previous episodes of The Frost Lion, they need to know that for the last six weeks we have been playing one section of The Frost Lion during each episode of Anchored by Truth. And since Anchored by Truth is available on most major podcasting apps listeners who want to hear those episodes can do so at any time. Unfortunately, we don’t have the time today to repeat those portions of the poem. But listeners who would like to hear all of the action and adventure that led up to today’s conclusion can listen to those episodes from their favorite podcast app or on our website, crystalseabooks.com.
VK: And just as a reminder as of the time of the production of this broadcast and podcast in late 2022 The Frost Lion has not yet been made available for commercial release but that will happen in the early part of 2023.
RD: That’s a good note. So, let’s amplify on the reason that the Frost Lion has now chosen to visit the bears, his disciples, in the village around the Golden Tree. For the first time since the bears had come to live near the Golden Tree they had now been presented with a missionary need. In other words, the Golden Tree village bears now knew that their ancestors had actually been saved generations ago for a reason – and that reason had now been brought to their attention in an unmistakable way.
VK: Well, if we went back to the first part of the Golden Tree Tales which is The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest we heard the heroine, Komari, say something significant which was quoted by Kodan in The Frost Lion. In her confrontation with the Demon Lord Komari said, “
For if not for the tree, which of us
Would ever have even been born?
The tree saved our forebears
When they came upon it that morn.
Ever since then, we’ve not been our own,
Our lives bought for a price.
This tree that was sown for you and me
Was the Great White Bear’s sacrifice.”
So, that’s part of the point you’re making with this whole epic saga. Those of us who know Christ as our Savior have been saved for a reason.
RD: Right. So, in answer to the question of why did the Frost Lion appear now it was because the Frost Lion wanted to commission the Golden Tree village bears to begin what is sometimes termed “The Great Commission.” The Great Commission is the mission that Jesus gave to His followers in Matthew, chapter 28 and which we heard repeated in the section of the poem we heard today. After His resurrection Jesus told the followers who had been with Him throughout His earthly ministry that the time had come for them to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and [teach] them to obey everything I have commanded you.” That’s from the New International Version of Matthew, chapter 28, verses 19 and 20.
VK: So, the reason that the Frost Lion appeared in the Golden Tree village at this time reminds us that there came and a time and place in history when the Lion of Judah entered world history to conduct His earthly ministry. And as we have talked about in other episodes of Anchored by Truth the time that Jesus entered world history as the God-Man wasn’t a random time. It was the time that had been chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world. Up to that time the world was being prepared for the arrival of the Messiah, the Anointed One, because it was at that time that the good news of salvation was going to be made available to a much larger audience.
RD: Right. Before the incarnation it’s not that there weren’t Gentiles who had worshipped the One True God – there were. But up to Jesus’ arrival on the earth the primary audience for God’s message that He was going to provide a Savior had been the Jews. All that changed with Jesus’ life. After Jesus’ earthly life, death, and resurrection not only did Jesus issue the Great Commission to His first followers but we see other evangelical and apostolic giants such as the Apostle Paul come on the scene and begin a concerted outreach to the Gentile nations as well as continuing the spread of the gospel among the Jews. But, this outreach was not going to be easy. Jesus knew it wouldn’t be which is, I believe, He made it so plain that this was a mission He was now assigning His followers. It would have been easy, more natural, for them to want to just speak to their countrymen in Israel or even just to other Jews. The outreach to the Gentiles was going to be hard – but it was the right thing to do because that’s the reason God had preserved His chosen people for thousands of years.
VK: That calls to mind a line out of the West Point cadet prayer that you mentioned to me a long time ago. The line says, “O God, our Father … Make us choose the harder right rather than the easier wrong and never to be content with a half-truth when the whole can be won.”
RD: Exactly. God had selected and preserved a people for Himself because it was through that people that He was going to bring a Savior for the whole world. Jesus, of course, was that Savior. But even after proving that He was the Son of God and the Messiah through His earthly ministry Jesus still had to complete His mission and send His followers to carry that message to the rest of the world. Until the message of salvation was sent to the rest of the world the rest of the world was still under the burden and curse of sin. But the message of salvation could and did change that.
VK: And that calls to mind Jesus saying in Matthew, chapter 11, verses 28 and 29 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” Jesus’ promise is to help us bear our burdens not merely to dismiss them from our lives but we have to hear that good news for it to be effective in people’s lives.
RD: Exactly right. So, living near the Golden Tree had brought many blessings to the bears in the arctic village. But it wasn’t enough for them to enjoy those blessings. They had a responsibility to share their blessings with others.
VK: So, that brings us to another question. Couldn’t Roleb and his companion just go back to their village and told their friends and neighbors they had seen the Golden Tree, the Frost Lion, and the northern bears?
RD: They could have but it would strengthen their witness to have others from the Golden Tree village support their testimony. That’s something anyone who has ever testified to their friends and neighbors will tell you. We all have a responsibility to give a reason for the hope that lies within us. That’s 2 Peter 3:15. But our witness is strengthened when we have others who will go with us and add their voices to our testimony. That’s one of the reasons it’s important to always engage in Christian fellowship with other believers. Sometimes we can put too much emphasis on that old admonition that “if it’s to be, it’s up to me.” Well, of course, we must do our part. But we should also seek the help of others in our own missionary activities.
VK: That’s a really important point. As Christians we can get so caught up in struggling to be good believers, good workers, or good parents or family members that we can forget to turn to other believers for support and help. And we must always trust the Lord to support us and depend on the Lord to provide for us. There’s nothing wrong with hard work but ultimately if we think that our lives and destinies on this earth are all about us we are in danger of relying on our strength rather than the Lord’s.
RD: Right. And again our model in how to approach struggles is Christ in his confrontation with Satan. Even Jesus didn’t depend on Himself to when He responded to the temptations presented by Satan. When Jesus needed strength to repel Satan Jesus went to scripture.
VK: And most people may not realize that all of the scriptures Jesus used came from probably one of the least well-known books in the Bible, Deuteronomy. Christ quoted Deuteronomy, chapter 8, verse 3 in response to the first temptation Satan presented. He quoted Deuteronomy, chapter 6, verse 16 in response to the second temptation, and Deuteronomy, chapter 6, verse 13 in response to the third temptation. This certainly reinforces the need to study the entire Bible. Jesus certainly knew all of the Old Testament and used it in his life.
RD: Right. Part of us fulfilling our role in the Great Commission is recognizing that the Lord is sovereign and we are not. Even Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane for the Father’s will to be done and not his own. We must be willing to witness and testify to others, kindly and gently, but ultimately the results are up to God. Only God can bring change to a human heart.
VK: And that calls to mind James, chapter 1, verse 17. “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.” So, in essence what you’re saying is that Jesus is not only the One who issued the Great Commission but Jesus is the One who enables us to fulfill it. We dare not try to undertake any part of the Great Commission or any other aspect of the Christian life on our own. We must always turn to, and trust in, Jesus to guide and provide.
RD: Yes. Jesus is both the source of the instruction and the strength for the obedience. Turning to Jesus should be our first response but all too often I fear it’s our last resort. I always wince a little when I hear people say “the only thing I can do for you is to pray.”
VK: Because as you say in your book Purposeful Prayers “the whispered prayer that stirs the hand of God dwarfs the most powerful force in the universe.”
RD: Yes. The one big advantage that the bears who lived in the Golden Tree had over their southern relatives was that they had learned that ultimately the supply for their needs came from a source outside themselves. They had lived near the Golden Tree for generations. They knew there was a source of blessing outside of their own effort and that’s where they placed their trust. Anyone or anything that tempts you to place your trust in anything other than God cannot be of God. It’s not that we should not work hard to develop our own skills and abilities but we must keep them in proper perspective.
VK: The Apostle Paul essentially affirmed this sentiment in the one of the best-known verses from the Bible: Philippians, chapter 4, verse 13. “For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength”
RD: Exactly. We should learn from Golden Tree village bears’ example to be discerning when the world presents us with challenges or opportunities. Jesus is our sure and certain guide in this world and the primary way Jesus imparts wisdom to us is through the Bible. That’s why we must become so familiar with the Bible that we can immediately discern things or events in our lives that tempt us to depart from its teaching. There are a lot of things that will come our way that may not seem to be harmful, in and of themselves, but we can see that it what they offer or tempt us to do will not be consistent with scripture. At my age I’ve learned that the most important skill we can develop is spiritual discernment and we can only get that from the Bible and developing a strong network of mature Christian friends.
VK: And while The Frost Lion doesn’t get into that level of detail it’s obvious from the poem that the bears had a strong regard for genuine wisdom and Kodan, Kojon, Koest and all the reset developed even more wisdom after their encounter with the Frost Lion. Christ came to bring us not only joy and peace but “life more abundantly.” But how can we enjoy that abundant life if we don’t ensure that as we travel through life we stay as close as humanly possible to the author of all life, peace, and joy. Staying close to Jesus means reading the Bible, developing a strong prayer life, and staying connected to other believers who can bless us and who we can bless in turn. Sounds like a great time for a prayer. Today since we’re so close to New Year’s Day let’s listen to a prayer for blessings to come to us in the new year.
---- Prayer for NEW YEAR’S DAY
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on our website or your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” Also, we’d like to remind listeners that copies of the first part of the Golden Tree saga, The Golden Tree: Komari’s Quest, is available from our website.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”

(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 4, verses 8 through 10, New International Version

Episode 246 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 2 – The Resurrection of Nineveh
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
One day the LORD told Jonah, the son of Amittai, to go to the great city of Nineveh and say to the people, “The LORD has seen your terrible sins. You are doomed!”
Jonah, Chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hello and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. All of us at Anchored by Truth are excited to be with you at the start of a New Year and a new series. As we often talk, the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last couple of decades than it was in the first 225 years of the country’s existence. One comment that we hear frequently in the popular media – that is completely false – is that the Bible is a book filled with “myth and fairy tales.” Nothing could be further from the truth and this is a claim that is easily refuted. And one way it can be refuted is by knowing that the Bible contains a large body of reliable history. And one way to demonstrate that the history the Bible contains is reliable is by pointing to archeological discoveries. So, RD has entitled this series “Archeology and the Bible” and we have RD, who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books, in the studio today. RD, in our first episode in this series you pointed out that archeological finds can be a valuable source of support for the accuracy of the history that the Bible reports. Despite the fact that popular culture has tried to dismiss the connection the truth is the relationship between the Bible and archeology has been mutually supportive. Many scholars, including ones who weren’t Christian, have used the Bible as a source document when planning or conducting their excavations. The Bible was and is widely regarded as an important source of information about ancient peoples and cultures. The trend to dismiss the Bible’s accuracy in matters of dates and places in the Mideast has become popular among skeptics but it is completely out of sync with how the Bible was viewed among professionals. In fact, the Bible’s history has been shown to be accurate even when doubted and you said that’s something you wanted to illustrate today, right?
RD: Absolutely. But before we get into that I would also like to welcome the listeners to our show. Anchored by Truth’s sole purpose is to equip believers to be able to answer the question “how can we be sure the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.” And one way to do that is to use confirmed archeological discoveries to show that the Bible’s historical reports are accurate even when they have been doubted by secular scholars. Today I want to revisit one of the most famous examples of the Bible getting history right even when skeptics for centuries dismissed the Bible’s report.
VK: So, since our opening scripture was from the book of Jonah I’m guessing that today you want to talk about the discovery of the city of Nineveh in the 19th century. Nineveh was the capital of Assyrian empire and was one of the most prominent cities in the ancient world. You wouldn’t think that a city as important as Nineveh could get lost in history but it did. An article on the United Church of God’s website says this: “Nineveh, the capital city, fell to the Babylonians in 612 B.C. About 50 years after its peak, [the Assyrian Empire had] collapsed and virtually vanished from history. By the time of Jesus Christ and the apostles, no physical evidence of Nineveh could be seen. Lucian of Samosata ([who lived from] A.D. 120-180), a Greek writer, lamented: "Nineveh has perished. No trace of it remains. No one can say where once it existed" ... Such a lack of visible remains led some scholars of the 19th century to express skepticism that Nineveh or any part of the Assyrian Empire even existed, much less dominated a significant part of the world.”

RD: Yes. From around 900 BC to 600 BC the Assyrian Empire was the dominant military power in the Mideast. Some scholars believe that during this time period it was the most formidable military power in the world. But as you just quoted, in the waning years of the 7th century BC, Assyria began to weaken and it ultimately fell to the Babylonians under King Nabopolassar. The fall of the Assyrian Empire isn’t all that remarkable because if we learn anything from history it’s that all empires, regardless of their power during their peak years, always weaken and ultimately fall. The Assyrians fell to the Babylonians, the Babylonians to the Persians, the Persians to the Greeks, and the Greeks to the Romans. And even the mighty Roman Empire which lasted even longer than the Assyrians or any of its predecessors ultimately collapsed under the weight of social decay and external pressures. What is somewhat remarkable is that the Assyrians disappeared so completely that secular history completely lost sight of them.
VK: But, let’s be clear, in addition to the Bible recording the existence and greatness of the Assyrian Empire the Bible also had prophesied the destruction and disappearance of the Assyrian Empire. The Bible prophesied that God would use the Assyrians to punish His people because of their drift into idolatry. But at the same time God also told the Assyrians they would be punished in turn because of their arrogance. For instance, Isaiah, chapter 10, verses 15 through 19 record God saying to the Assyrians, “But can the ax boast greater power than the person who uses it? Is the saw greater than the person who saws? Can a rod strike unless a hand moves it? Can a wooden cane walk by itself? Therefore, the Lord, the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, will send a plague among Assyria’s proud troops, and a flaming fire will consume its glory. The LORD, the Light of Israel, will be a fire; the Holy One will be a flame. He will devour the thorns and briers with fire, burning up the enemy in a single night. The LORD will consume Assyria’s glory like a fire consumes a forest in a fruitful land; it will waste away like sick people in a plague. Of all that glorious forest, only a few trees will survive — so few that a child could count them!” That’s from the New Living Translation.

RD: And Isaiah was not the only Old Testament prophet to warn Assyria of their coming destruction. Why don’t you read Nahum, chapter 2, verses 11 through 13?
VK: Those verses say, “Where now is that great Nineveh, that den filled with young lions? It was a place where people—like lions and their cubs— walked freely and without fear. The lion tore up meat for his cubs and strangled prey for his mate. He filled his den with prey, his caverns with his plunder. ‘I am your enemy!’ says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. ‘Your chariots will soon go up in smoke. Your young men will be killed in battle. Never again will you plunder conquered nations. The voices of your proud messengers will be heard no more.”
RD: Listen to the last portion of what you read from Isaiah. God told the Assyrians that their “glorious forest” would be reduced to so few trees that a child could count them. Then in Nahum God said, “the voices of your proud messengers will be heard no more.” These are essentially poetic ways of God telling the Assyrians they would be utterly destroyed and they were. But what we want to focus on today is that after those prophesies were fulfilled, and Nineveh was destroyed by the Babylonians, it wasn’t just reduced to a vassal state – as often happened. Nineveh and the Assyrians were so devastated that they disappeared. This huge city that was located in modern day Iraq literally disappeared into the sands. As the Greek writer you quoted said, “Nineveh has perished. No trace of it remains. No one can say where once it existed." Lucian lived in the 2nd century AD – almost 1,900 years ago. At least at that time secular history remembered Nineveh. But by the 19th century AD even that memory had disappeared – or at least it was greatly doubted. The one source, though, that unequivocally preserved the memory of the Assyrians and Nineveh was the Bible.
VK: Well, one reason some secular historians may have begun to doubt the existence of an actual Nineveh was because one Bible book in which Nineveh plays a prominent role is the book of Jonah. Jonah may be the most famous of the Minor Prophets because his book contains one of the best known stories in the Bible – a man is saved from drowning by being swallowed by an extremely large sea creature and then tossed up on land. That same man later preaches to a pagan city and in 3 days converts the whole city including the king. That story sound mythical. So, maybe historians reasoned that the whole book of Jonah was mythical including the existence of Nineveh and the Assyrian empire?
RD: And that’s certainly possible even though Nineveh and the Assyrian Empire are also mentioned in several other books of the Bible. But one thing the skeptics could take comfort from was that until the mid-19th century there was no physical evidence of Nineveh’s existence. Physically, Nineveh had just vanished. And archeology, as we know it today, was just beginning to emerge in the 19th century. And for the opening decades of the 19th century Nineveh still remained undiscovered. But then all that changed. The online Encyclopedia Britannica has this to say about the discovery of Nineveh. “The first person to survey and map Nineveh was the archaeologist Claudius J. Rich in 1820, a work later completed by Felix Jones and published by him in 1854. Excavations have been undertaken intermittently since that period by many persons. … Sir Henry Layard during 1845–51 discovered the palace of Sennacherib and took back to England an unrivalled collection of stone bas-reliefs together with thousands of tablets inscribed in cuneiform from the great library of Ashurbanipal.”
VK: So, at least one of the names you just read should be familiar to any student of the Bible, right?
RD: Right. Sennacherib was one of the most famous of the kings of Assyria and is mentioned in several places of the Bible.
VK: Such as in the historical books of Kings and Chronicles.
RD: Yes. Sennacherib is well known to Bible readers because at one point he invaded the kingdom of Judah with the intent to make it part of the Assyrian Empire.
VK: Let’s remind listeners that during the time that David and his son, Solomon, were the kings of Israel the nation was unified. But when Solomon’s son took over the kingdom split in two. After that the northern kingdom was called Israel and the southern kingdom was called Judah. The northern kingdom was ruled by a series of idolatrous kings and was eventually conquered by the Assyrians in 722 B.C. The Assyrians deported the Israelites and resettled some other people into that territory. Judah remained an independent kingdom although it paid annual tributes to the Assyrians. But around 701 BC the Assyrians invaded Judah. 2 Chronicles, chapter 32, verse 1 says that the Assyrian king “laid siege to the fortified cities, thinking to conquer them for himself.”
RD: Right. The Assyrian king who laid siege to the cities of Judah was Sennacherib which the Bible tells us. But until the middle of the 19th century secular historians weren’t even sure that Sennacherib was a historical figure. But as the entry from the Encyclopedia Britannica told us once Sir Henry Layard discovered the great library of Assurbanipal all that changed. That library contained thousands of clay cuneiform tablets, including tablets that described Sennacherib’s invasion of Judah. And those tablets provided clear confirmation of the accuracy of the Bible’s text.
VK: That same article from the United Church of God’s website says this. “Assyrian records of these events quote the King … of Assyria boasting of his devastating invasion of Judah: ‘Forty-six of [Hezekiah's] strong walled towns and innumerable smaller villages...I besieged and conquered...As for Hezekiah, the awful splendor of my lordship overwhelmed him’ … [the Assyrian records] noted that [the king] had made Hezekiah ‘a prisoner in Jerusalem, his royal residence, like a bird in a cage.’”
RD: Right. The article goes on to say, “The biblical record agrees with Sennacherib's account of the Assyrian invasion and notes the desperation of the kingdom of Judah as the Assyrians laid siege to Jerusalem, their last surviving stronghold. However, the Bible continues the story where the Assyrian records are silent. With Jerusalem facing imminent destruction, the people of Judah, led by King Hezekiah, prayed fervently to God (Isaiah 37:15-20) and were miraculously delivered against overwhelming odds.” In both the books of 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles the Bible tells us that Hezekiah and the people’s prayers brought deliverance.
VK: 2 Kings, chapter 19, verses 32 through 37 say this. “Therefore this is what the Lord says concerning the king of Assyria: ‘He will not enter this city or shoot an arrow here. He will not come before it with shield or build a siege ramp against it. By the way that he came he will return; he will not enter this city, declares the Lord. I will defend this city and save it, for my sake and for the sake of David my servant.’ That night the angel of the Lord went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning—there were all the dead bodies! So [the] king of Assyria broke camp and withdrew. He returned to Nineveh and stayed there. One day, while he was worshiping in the temple of his god … his sons … killed him with the sword, and they escaped to the land of Ararat. And Esarhaddon his son succeeded him as king.” [EH-SAHR-HEH-DOHN]
RD: And the records that were brought back from the great library confirmed this account. Sennacherib carefully recorded a list of the cities he captured and destroyed, but one city is conspicuously absent—Jerusalem. Sennacherib talks about besieging Hezekiah in the city—not of taking it or Hezekiah, Judah's king. So, after almost 1,900 years of silence that prompted the secular world to doubt the authenticity of the Bible the Bible’s record was again proven to be true. The cuneiform tablets unearthed from Assurbanipal’s great library confirmed the Bible’s record of Sennacherib’s interactions with Judah exactly as described.
VK: So, this reinforces one of the big points that we made in our first episode on “Archeology and the Bible.” One very important role archeology plays with respect to the Bible is to help affirm the reliability of the Bible’s historical reports. That’s what happened when archeologists began excavating at the site of the ancient city of Nineveh. At first they just found the ruins of the city. But when Henry Layard found the library the tablets in the library confirmed many of the details contained in the Bible’s historical records. These included the names of kings from both countries, the fact that Assyria invaded Judah and conquered many Judean cities, and that the Assyrians never conquered Jerusalem. The Assyrian records also confirmed that the invading king was murdered by two of his own sons and that a 3rd son inherited the empire.
RD: Yes. Even though secular history lost sight of Nineveh for almost 2 millennia the Bible never did. But, let’s get back to the book of Jonah. We started out noting that one of the books of the Bible in which Nineveh features prominently is Jonah but some of the other elements of Jonah are so unusual that it made the book seem more fiction. But let’s show that even one of the historical details contained in book of Jonah was shown to be accurate. In Jonah, chapter 3, verse 3, Jonah gives us a detail about the city that seems unlikely.
VK: Jonah, chapter 3, verse 3 says, in part, “This time Jonah obeyed the LORD’s command and went to Nineveh, a city so large that it took three days to see it all.” That’s from the New Living Translation. The New International Version says, “Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it.” What you’re saying is that that seems like a very large city if it takes 3 days for a person to walk across it. There aren’t that many modern cities that you couldn’t walk across in a day or two. So, a city that takes 3 days to cross seems improbable.
RD: But, as improbable as it may seem, archeology has shown that even this detail from the book of Jonah is correct. Genesis, chapter 10, verses 11 and 12 tell us about the founding of Nineveh. It says, “From that land Nimrod went to Assyria, and built Nineveh, and Rehoboth-Ir, and Calah, 12and [Nimrod built] Resen, which is between Nineveh and Calah; all these [combined to form] the great city [Nineveh].” That’s from the Amplified Bible. A Wikipedia article on the city of Nineveh notes that “The ruins of Kuyunjiq, Nimrud, Karamlesh, and Khorsabad for the four corners of an irregular quadrilateral. . The ruins of the ‘great city’ Nineveh, … [is] included within the parallelogram [formed] by lines drawn from the one to the other, [the Biblical reference in Jonah is] generally regarded as consisting of these four sites.” Furthermore, excavations have revealed that, as was common in ancient times, there were defensive fortifications in the area that lay well outside the walls of the Nineveh proper. These defensive fortifications were probably like outposts that could be used both to slow the advance of an oncoming army as well as give early warning to the main city. In walking from the outposts on one side of the region to the other archeologists found that it did indeed take a few days to cross from one outer ring of fortifications to the one on the opposite side.
VK: Also, even in our day it’s common to refer to a large area by the name of a city that dominates it. If you look at a map we know that the New York City includes Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, Staten Island, and so forth. But no one would bat an eye is someone from Florida just told their friends they were travelling to New York even though they might wind up in the Bronx. So, when the Hebrew writer said that Nineveh was a very great city that it took three days to cross the writer was just using the same kind of descriptive language we use today.
RD: Agreed. In fact, the use of that kind of informal descriptive language adds to the authenticity of the book of Jonah. If someone had been contriving a pious fraud about a man being miraculously delivered by a fish from drowning before converting the capital city of his enemies it’s unlikely they would have been cavalier about describing the people who were to be converted. But someone recording a true, though remarkable, tale of conversion, whether the writer was Jonah or someone else, will write using the conversational conventions of their day.
VK: What we’ve been talking about in this episode of Anchored by Truth is summed up well in the article from the United Church of God. The article says, “the only historical source in those days that verified the existence of the empire was the Bible. The Old Testament histories and prophecies spoke about Assyria. Jesus proclaimed the existence of Nineveh as a historical fact (Matthew 12:41). Yet some scholars disputed the testimony of Jesus and the prophets—that is, until ‘one spectacular decade in the middle of the nineteenth century...[when] Austen Henry Layard and Paul Emile Botta rediscovered in northern Iraq the ancient remains of three Assyrian cities [including Nineveh] and evidence of the military panoply that had crushed all resistance from the Tigris to the Nile. The Assyrian empire...in all its awesome power had been resurrected through archaeology.’”
RD: So, the book of Jonah and the other books that mention Assyria and Nineveh provide a clear and easily understandable example of archeology producing evidence that demonstrated the truth of the Bible’s history – even when evidence had disappeared for a long time. Secular historians had concluded that the absence of evidence was evidence of absence. But it wasn’t.
VK: The point you’re making is that is important to not discount the reliability of the Bible just because secular culture or so-called experts would like to do so.
RD: Exactly. The Bible is the Word of God and as such it is trustworthy. But God has not asked us to suspend the use of ordinary human tools such as archeology, science, and logic in our pursuit of understanding the Bible. It is not unreasonable to for an honest skeptic to ask the question, “what evidence is there that the Bible is the Word of God?” That’s not an unreasonable question. What is unreasonable is for us to provide example after example of scientific fact or archeological discoveries supporting the Bible only for the skeptic to contend that the evidence doesn’t exist. There comes a point where a request for evidence dissolves into a simple unwillingness to accept what the evidence is saying.
VK: So, when we encounter a book like Jonah it’s not unreasonable to approach certain parts of it – a man being swallowed and kept alive by a giant fish or whale – with an initial skepticism. Men being swallowed by giant fish isn’t an everyday occurrence for us. But the fact that it is unusual does not mean it’s impossible. And when we begin looking at elements within the book of Jonah that we can test directly we find out that a fair test tells us that the writer of Jonah was writing history not myth.
RD: Right. In our first episode in this series we pointed out that another amazing story contained in the Bible, that of David and Goliath – that might on first blush look legendary – in fact is historically accurate in the details it reports. The book of Jonah reinforces the points we made in our first episode in this series. Archeology can play two very important roles in our study of the Bible and that’s why we’re doing this series. Archeology can help skeptics see that the Bible is not, in fact, a book of “myth and fairy tale.” It is a book firmly set in place and time and its reports of those places and times are trustworthy. Archeology can also help us expand our understanding of the places and times of the Bible and of the people, societies, and cultures that the Bible describes. This helps us understand the Bible’s messages more clearly.
VK: Well, This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our friends and neighbors who have not yet come to know Christ as their savior. Just as God converted the people of Nineveh through Jonah’s preaching, we can pray that the Lord will convert the lost of our day through our own preaching. Only God can change the human heart but He most often does it by using human instruments, like us, as part of His great work of redemption.
---- PRAYER FOR THE SPIRITUALLY LOST
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the Contemporary English Version)
Jonah, Chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, Contemporary English Version
A Staggering Archaelogical Discovery: The Mighty Assyrian Empire Emerges From the Dust | United Church of God (ucg.org)
Nineveh | History, Map, & Significance | Britannica
Topical Bible: Ashurbanipal (biblehub.com)
Nineveh - Wikipedia

Episode 247 – Temporary Defeat, Permanent Victory
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
[The king said] “We will never find a better man than Joseph, a man who has God's spirit in him… you have greater wisdom and insight than anyone else. I will put you in charge of my country ... .
Genesis, chapter 41, verses 37 through 40. Good News Translation

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VK: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K in the studio and today we’re going to do something a little different on Anchored by Truth. Today we’re going to interrupt the series that we began a couple of episodes ago to focus on a news story that has been particularly important in our home broadcasting community of Tallahassee, Florida. As just about everyone knows Tallahassee is the home of Florida State University which down through the years has had a notable football program. And in 2023 the football team had a particularly noteworthy year under head football coach Mike Norvell who was in his 4th season with the team. The team won their first 13 games in a row and was so highly ranked nationally that they fully expected to play in the Bowl Championship Series. Playing in that series would have given Coach Norvell and his players an excellent opportunity to become the national champions. But … that’s when the story changed. So, to talk about what came next and why we wanted to discuss this on Anchored by Truth RD Fierro, the Founder of Crystal Sea Books is back in the studio. RD, talking about news events is not something we normally do on Anchored by Truth. So, why this story and why now?
RD: Well, you’re absolutely right that this is a departure from what we normally talk about on Anchored by Truth. Anchored by Truth is the only radio show that we know of that focuses exclusively on demonstrating the inspiration, inerrancy, and infallibility of scripture. But the reason we do that is because we want people to know that the Bible is a reliable resource (the only absolutely sure resource) to guide their faith, lives, and Christian practice. But the Christian faith is not a sterile faith. It’s not a faith that is meant to be lived out in a vacuum or be disconnected from the real world and daily life. The Christian faith is a faith that recognizes and looks forward to eternity but is lived out through a daily life that serves others while proclaiming God’s eternal truth. And part of living out our daily lives is encountering and overcoming obstacles and challenges. And that’s why I thought it was important for us to talk about what went on with the FSU football team in 2023. There has been a lot of “ink spilled” about what happened with the team but I thought in all the clamor and discussion some key thoughts weren’t being given much coverage.
VK: In other words, you thought that too little attention was being focused on some important insights that come to us from our Christian faith about what happened with the team. I mentioned a second ago that after winning 13 games in a row, including their conference championship, FSU had a very reasonable expectation of being invited to play in the series that leads to the national championship. But that invitation never came did it?
RD: No, it didn’t. And the decision by the committee that issues the invitations to the BCS (Bowl Championship Series) has received a lot of comment and criticism. And it’s received enough comment and criticism that I don’t think we need to spend much time on it today.
VK: Well, I know we don’t want to spend too much time on the invitation committee’s actions but I do think a couple of the things you wrote in response to a question from one of our friends is worthy of being repeated on this show. You wrote, “[The committee has] taught the FSU players that privileged people will abuse their privileges to obtain more privilege - and that those who are still aspiring can expect nothing from people of privilege unless what they offer will benefit those people of privilege. [The committee has] taught the FSU players that people in positions of trust are capable of far greater and more sinister betrayals than ordinary mortals - so they should pledge to themselves that if they are ever in a position of trust they will do better for others than was done for (to) them. “[The committee has also] taught the FSU players that success in life isn't just a matter of hard work and individual/team effort. Your goals can be and are easily and whimsically thwarted by powerful people. But those people can't define your response to their thwarting. Only you can.”
RD: Yes. I’m not naive. I’m well aware that BCS invitation committee offered what they considered a reasonable rationale for why FSU should have been excluded from the final four teams while 2 teams who had lost a game deserved inclusion. But unfortunately the final selections just called to my mind 1 Timothy, chapter 6, verse 10.
VK: In the New International Version that verse says, “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
RD: Yes. Only the invitation committee members themselves know why they made the decision they did. Their decisions are between them and God and God knows the truth no matter what public statements were made. And that’s part of what I wanted to do today was – in the midst of the all the public comments and clamor – to redirect our attention to our God who is sovereign over all the affairs of humanity and history.
VK: Well, just to complete the background for those people who may not have paid a lot of attention to this story, after FSU did not get an invitation to the BCS a number of FSU players elected not to participate in the Orange Bowl, the bowl game to which FSU was invited. Actually, more than 2 dozen players, many of whom were “starters” opted out. They either decided to turn professional or enter what is now called the “transfer portal.” Without a lot of key players available FSU then proceeded to lose in the Orange Bowl by a pretty lopsided margin.
RD: Right. So, of course that big loss caused another round of consternation and criticism. Some of the criticism was directed at the players who elected not to play. Some was directed at the system that makes it more attractive for some players not to play than to play in a game. And some was directed at the coaches. While I understand the reason the criticism would occur I’m not going to comment on any of that because I would rather point to the people I consider to be the heroes in this whole situation.
VK: And I think that that is surprising – that you could find any heroes in a situation that seemed to go steadily downhill ever since FSU secured its 13th win in a row?
RD: And that’s why I felt compelled to do this special episode of Anchored by Truth – which I am calling Temporary Defeat, Permanent Victory.
VK: Temporary defeat and permanent victory is not a mindset that most of the world embraces. What are you thinking about?
RD: In God’s providence there are a lot of times in life when He permits His people to suffer defeat because He is going to use that temporary defeat to prepare that person for a permanent victory.
VK: And, of course, one of the classic examples of that phenomenon in the Bible is the story of Joseph which is told in Genesis, chapters 37 through 50. That’s 14 chapters in the Bible. That is a large number of chapters in which one person is the primary focus.
RD: Right. Everyone knows the story of Joseph. He had two dreams in which he say his brothers and parents bowing down to him. That was odd since Joseph was the 11th son in line out of 12. His brothers were so irritated by this that they sold Joseph into slavery. But more than a decade later the dream came true when the brothers had to go to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph who had become the 2nd most powerful person in the kingdom.
VK: And we heard about Pharaoh promoting Joseph in our opening scripture. Joseph endured slavery, captivity, false accusations, and being forgotten for over a decade before God finally sent him to interpret a dream for Pharaoh. That interpretation caused Pharaoh to promote Joseph to being the number 2 person in Egypt. So, when Joseph’s brothers had to go to Egypt to buy grain because there was a famine in Palestine they did indeed literally bow down to Joseph. They had sold Joseph into slavery but that temporary setback for Joseph did not prevent God from using Joseph in a powerful way. The temporary defeat did not limit God’s ability to provide permanent victory.
RD: Exactly. And we see that same situation in the book of Esther. Esther is a Jew but through the advice she receives from her uncle Mordecai she becomes the wife of a Persian Emperor. While she’s the queen, though, one of the emperor’s advisors, a wicked man named Haman, entices the emperor to issue an order that all of the Jews in the empire are to be killed. Mordecai tells Esther that God raised her up “for such a time as this.” So, at the risk of her life Esther intervenes for her people and Haman’s plan is defeated and Haman himself is executed. This episode in their national history is still celebrated as a holiday called Purim by Jewish people.
VK: So, again we see that God transformed a temporary defeat into a permanent victory. Haman hated Mordecai and therefore hated the Jews. Haman thought he had won when he enticed the king to issue an ill-advised edict to murder all the Jews in the kingdom. But God is sovereign, not man.
RD: And another example of temporary defeat, but permanent victory that we see in scripture is in the life of Elijah. And interestingly enough the defeat we hear about for Elijah came about after the tremendous victory that God gave him when he faced down 850 false prophets on the top of Mount Carmel. A lot of people may not realize that after God demonstrated his power by burning up Elijah’s bull Elijah became so discouraged and disillusioned he actually asked God to kill him.
VK: Here are a few verses from 1 Kings, chapter 19, verses 1 through 4 in the Amplified Version. “Now Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and how he had killed all the prophets [of Baal] with the sword. Then Jezebel sent a messenger to Elijah, saying, ‘So may the gods do to me, and even more, if by this time tomorrow I do not make your life like the life of one of them.’ And Elijah was afraid and arose and ran for his life … [Elijah] said, ‘It is enough; now, O LORD, take my life, for I am no better than my fathers.’” Wow. That’s amazing. Elijah had just seen God defeat 850 false prophets but now he’s so afraid of one woman that he flees into the desert and asks God to take his life.
RD: And all that says is that even the best among us will have our moments of discouragement and doubt. And sometimes our greatest defeat may have followed a great victory. But our God does not abandon us because of our defeats, doubts, or disillusionment. God had other work for Elijah to do and God strengthened Elijah so he could do it. And God started that next phase of Elijah’s work by reminding Elijah that even though he felt like he was alone, he was not. In verse 18 God told Elijah that there were “7,000 [survivors] in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed down to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him.” And God followed Elijah’s disillusionment with the greatest victory possible. God took Elijah to heaven without Elijah passing through physical death. Elijah had a profound temporary defeat but an unsurpassed permanent victory.
VK: So, we see that there is a clear pattern in the Bible – that for the men and women of the Bible who have faith – defeat is not permanent. Temporary defeats are often followed by victories.
RD: And you can see another example of this pattern in the life of ancient Israel’s greatest king, King David. David had served faithfully in the household of the king who preceded him, Saul, until Saul became jealous of David’s rising fame. Saul then chased David into the wilderness and tried to kill him on multiple occasions. Naturally, all that wickedness on Saul’s part was silly and fruitless. God had already told them that David was going to become the king of Israel after Saul and he did. But even after he became king David experienced another temporary defeat when his son, Absalom, led a revolt against him. Initially the revolt succeeded and David was driven out of Jerusalem. But David was God’s king and Absalom died during the course of God restoring David to the throne.
VK: And, of course, the greatest example in the Bible, the greatest example possible, of a temporary defeat that led to permanent victory was Jesus’ death on the cross. The forces of wickedness, both human and demonic, had seen clear evidence that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Jesus had fulfilled dozens of prophecies that showed that Jesus was God’s anointed Savior. Yet, their hatred of God and Jesus was so great that they induced Pontius Pilate to execute Jesus. They probably thought that Jesus’ death on the cross had solved their problems and defeated God’s plan. But, as you just said, that was silly and fruitless. Jesus gave the ultimate proof that he was the prophesied Messiah when He walked out of the tomb and defeated death itself. Aren’t we all grateful that God grants victory to those who trust Him no matter what the world may be claiming at any particular moment?
RD: Exactly. And that brings us back to FSU’s loss in the Orange Bowl. It was clearly a temporary defeat but we have yet to see whether that temporary defeat will yield to a permanent victory. I believe it will for two groups – or rather one group and one special individual. So, here’s a personal observation . The year I was a senior at West Point our football team didn’t win a single game. Needless to say it was a hard year for the Corps of Cadets and an even harder year for the team, especially my classmates, the seniors. Yet, a very large number of my classmates went on to notable successes – not just in the military but also in law, medicine, diplomacy, industry, and a host of other professions. And I read a testimony of one of my classmates who was on that team where he credited much of his success later in life to that crucible – that horrible no win season. Because even though that year the team didn’t win any games that year he noted that they never gave up. They fought hard in every game. The outcome of the games wasn’t what they wanted. It sure wasn’t for the Corps. But the fire of that season’s trial refined our characters and our victories were won later.
VK: So, I know one group that you think has emerged from this whole saga that deserves some praise is the group of players who went down to Miami and represented Florida State in the Orange Bowl. You think the fact that they were willing to suit up, show up, and play their best speaks very well of them don’t you?
RD: I do. Most people, and certainly every athlete, know that it is easy to show up when everything is going your way. It’s easy to go out onto a field, step on a race track, or enter the arena when you’re pretty sure you’re going to win. But it’s an entirely different matter when you know the odds are against you. Going out and doing your best in that kind of situation takes discipline, strength of character, and plain old-fashioned guts. There’s a lot of truth in the old saying that “when the going gets tough, the tough get going.”
VK: And in our success-obsessed culture we forget that. And we saw that even in this situation. There were some critics who thought FSU shouldn’t even go to Orange Bowl because they had lost so many key players whereas their opponents had not.
RD: Right, the FSU players who did play in the Orange Bowl already proved they were men of strength and character just by being willing to put in the practice and then step on the field. As I’ve said, I’m not going to comment on the players who didn’t go. Their decision was between them, their families, and God. But I am commending and thanking the players who did go. And their courage and character isn’t diminished at all by the results of the game.
VK: That’s a hard lesson. We all like to win especially in high profile games. And we are certainly not saying that the outcome of games or other events isn’t important. Outcomes are important. But there are going to be situations in life where we need to step up and perform regardless of whether we think we may emerge from that situation as “the winner.” Outcomes matter – but they are not all that matters – especially for Christians. Ultimately, Christians play and work for an audience of One and our lives will have been worthwhile if we ever hear “well done good and faithful servant” from Jesus.
RD: And one more thing I think we should point out about the FSU players who went to the Orange Bowl. Every athlete knows that your performance in a game is going to be improved by reps – repetitions both in practice and in games. We simply don’t know how those players might have performed if they had had the opportunity to play as much and have as much game time earlier in the season as the other team’s players did. People have hurled some unfair criticism when we don’t know what might have happened if those players had been able to develop their skills more fully.
VK: And I know the special person that you want to commend is FSU’s head football coach, Mike Norvell. You think that anyone who hasn’t done so should listen to the speech he made in the locker room after the game and his opening comments during the postgame press conference. They are a tremendous example of what servant leadership looks like.
RD: Yes. Many people forget that Jesus was a leader. In fact, He was the greatest leader of all time and He gave us the single greatest leadership maxim of all time. “The greatest among you is the servant to all.” In his talk with his players and again with the press Coach Norvell gave us an example of what Christ-like leadership looks like.
VK: And before anybody goes off the rails and saying that you are comparing Coach Norvell to Jesus that’s not what we’re doing. We are simply saying that Christ gave us an example of how we should conduct our daily lives. We are simply observing that Coach Norvell is doing a good job of following that example.
RD: Yes. Here are two easy to understand examples of how Jesus led. When they came to arrest Jesus he told the soldiers to let His followers go – and they did. Leaders place themselves between danger and their followers. And after the resurrection, even though the disciples had openly failed, Christ didn’t dwell on their failures. He told them how to do better, strengthened their weak faith, and provided encouragement. That’s what Coach Norvell did. He took all the responsibility for the loss onto his own shoulders and tried to protect his kids by going out of his way to ease their pain. No excuses, no evasion, no equivocation. Coach Norvell stood in the breach. He blamed himself, told the players how proud he was of them, and reminded them of the remarkable season they had had. Coach Norvell’s treatment of his players was a stark contrast with the behavior of some other coaches who experienced bowl losses.
VK: But we are naming no names. That’s not our purpose today.
RD: No. Our purpose is to redirect everyone’s attention to the commendable aspects of an episode that had some truly sad moments. As far as I’m concerned Coach Norvell’s actions after the loss only enhanced his excellence as a football coach. And for the players who endured the loss I’d just say that trial by fire is one of the surest ways God refines our characters for our good and His glory. And we learn that by studying the Bible and how even God’s greatest heroes have their own temporary defeats. I strongly believe victories will come for each of those young men and for the Coach. When you’re committed to Christ, Christ will not let you stand in the fire alone. And when you come out of the fire not only will you benefit but you’ll be far better able to bless others and glorify God. And that is our only purpose at Anchored by Truth.
VK: Well, as we used to say in the old days – ‘nuff said. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for Jesus. He is not only the One who secured our salvation by His unfathomable sacrifice but he modeled how we are to behave throughout our lives. People like Coach Norvell show us that Christ did not die in vain. The effects of Jesus’ leadership continue to shine brightly through His children today.
---- PRAYER FOR ADORATION OF THE SON.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us in the future when we’ll continue our discussion with Candy. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the Good News Translation)

Genesis, chapter 41, verses 37 through 40. Good News Translation
Florida State Head Coach, Mike Norvell, Delivers INSPIRING Speech After Orange Bowl Loss To Georgia - YouTube

Episode 248 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 3 – Archeological Axioms
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Noah was 600 years old when he went into the boat to escape the flood, and he did everything the LORD had told him to do. His wife, his sons, and his daughters-in-law all went inside with him.
Genesis, Chapter 7, verses 5 through 7, Contemporary English Version

********
VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. Today we’re going to be doing the third episode in a new series that we are calling “Archeology and the Bible.” Some scholars estimate that there are over 4,000 different religions in the world. With that many religions out there it’s reasonable to ask whether we can be sure which of those religions, if any, is true. The good news is that we can reasonably differentiate among the competing truth claims made by the various religions using logic, reason, and evidence. And one source of evidence that demonstrates that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God is archeology. Archeology helps us to show an unbelieving world that that the Bible contains a large body of reliable history. So, to help us continue our discussion today in the studio we have RD Fierro, who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, one of the big points that we are trying to make in this that archeological finds can be a valuable source of support for the accuracy of the history that the Bible reports. In fact, the Bible’s history has been shown to be accurate even when doubted by secular historians and we talked about that in our last episode of Anchored by Truth, right?
RD: Right. But before I get to a reminder of what we discussed last time I would also like to say “hi” to everyone and welcome them to Anchored by Truth. At Anchored by Truth we often say that there are four lines of evidence, at a minimum, that will help people understand that the Bible may be differentiated from all other books that claim to be the word of God. Those four lines of evidence are reliable history, remarkable unity, fulfilled prophecies, and redeemed destinies. And one way we can show that the Bible’s historical reports are accurate is through archeological finds. And there have been some pretty graphic examples of the Bible getting history right even when skeptics for centuries dismissed the Bible’s report. A case in point is the Bible’s report on the existence of the ancient kingdom of Assyria and its famous capital city, Nineveh. Nineveh and the Assyrian Empire literally disappeared beneath the sands of time in the 6th century BC and for over 2,000 years physical evidence of the once-mighty empire was missing.
VK: Nineveh disappeared so completely that a Greek writer, Lucian of Samosata ([who lived from] A.D. 120-180), once lamented: "Nineveh has perished. No trace of it remains. No one can say where once it existed" ... This lack of visible evidence caused many scholars and historians as late as the 19th century to doubt that the Assyrian Empire even existed, much less was once the dominant military power on earth.
RD: Yes. But then all that changed. The online Encyclopedia Britannica has this to say about the rediscovery of Nineveh. “The first person to survey and map Nineveh was the archaeologist Claudius J. Rich in 1820, a work later completed by Felix Jones and published by him in 1854. … Sir Henry Layard during 1845–51 discovered the palace of Sennacherib and took back to England an unrivalled collection of stone bas-reliefs together with thousands of tablets inscribed in cuneiform from the great library of Ashurbanipal.”
VK: But while secular history had lost sight of Nineveh and the Assyrians the one witness to their existence that never wavered was the Bible. The Old Testament books of Kings, Chronicles, Isaiah, Nahum, and Jonah always contained a clear record of the existence of the Assyrians even preserving names of some of its rulers and officials, the name of its capital, and even records of its conquests. Once the clay tablets were recovered from the great library by Henry Layard the Bible’s accounts were vindicated.
RD: Right. No serious historian today doubts that the Assyrian Empire at one time dominated the Mideast, was a very successful military power, and posed a grave and mortal threat to kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The Bible always contained a plain record of those facts and today scholars worldwide accept those facts. So, one subject I want to discuss today is why – at one time – there was so much doubt about the Bible’s reports about Assyria and Nineveh despite the fact that the Bible record was true and accurate.
VK: Well, I suppose many, maybe most people, would say “before Rich, Layard, and the others who unearthed the ruins of Nineveh from the Iraqi desert there wasn’t any evidence that the Bible’s account was accurate.”
RD: I think you’re quite right –.
VK: Thank you.
RD: - And that’s what I want to talk about. Why do so many people doubt the Bible until one of the Bible’s accounts is confirmed by an extra Biblical source? The Bible is an ancient record – but there are a lot of ancient records from about that same time period. The Greeks in particular had some well-known historians such as Herodotus and Xenophon. The Romans had historians such as Tacitus and Pliny. The Jews had a particularly well-known historian called Josephus. But when secular scholars read those ancient historians they don’t automatically doubt their accounts unless another source or archeological find confirms it. But all too many people automatically doubt the Bible’s records unless there is an extra-Biblical source that comes along and shows the Bible is right.
VK: Oh. I see the point you’re making. Even before Rich and Layard discovered the physical remains of Nineveh and the Assyrians there was in fact very good evidence of their existence - because the Bible contained a record of their existence. But today the tendency is to discount the Bible’s record as having evidentiary value unless another source is available to confirm what the Bible says. Your point is that among a lot of scholars today there seems to be an anti-Biblical bias that says, in effect, “Sure it’s in the Bible. But how do we know the Bible is true.” Yet, those same scholars don’t bring that same attitude to other historical records from the Biblical times. The way the academic community, the journalists, and the media treat the Bible is exactly the opposite of the way they treat other ancient sources. The skeptics and critics will regard other records as being accurate on their face but they regard the Bible as being inaccurate unless confirmed. This is either ironic because, in fact, the Bible is what inspired many, if not most, of those early Middle Eastern archeologists to go on their expeditions. They saw Bible as being true so they were willing to stake time and money to look for the ancient cities the Bible said had been there. If they had had the same attitude as many people today have they would never have set on their expeditions.
RD: Right. A belief in the Bible’s accuracy inspired much, if not most, of the early archeological exploration in Egypt, Israel, Iraq, Jordan, etc. Some of the greatest finds in archeological history, such as the rediscovery of the city of Petra in modern day Jordan, might never have been brought to light if it weren’t for the fact that explorers knew it must be there because the Bible said it was. Petra in Greek means “rock like” or “stony” and it is, quite literally, a city carved out of rock. In the Bible that location is identified with Edom. The Edomites were the descendants of Esau, who was the brother of the patriarch Jacob (also known as Israel). Esau was red haired and the city occupied by his descendants was known for the distinctly red color of the stone in that area. So, it is interesting that when it was rediscovered so much of the Bible’s text was vividly confirmed. At any rate, the point is that there is often the tendency to doubt the Bible unless confirmed, whereas the opposite attitude is taken with respect to other ancient documents. The histories compiled by Herodotus, Xenophon, etc. are accepted as being generally reliable until inaccuracies are shown.
VK: Well, as you say that wasn’t the case a hundred years ago or maybe even thirty or forty years ago. So, why is it that way now.
RD: In my opinion it’s because of the concerted pushback that has been occurring against Christianity and the Bible in recent decades in the west. Christianity’s values and ethics have been under attack in the western societies for a wide variety of reasons. But to effectively dispense with Christianity’s values you must dispense with the source of those values: the Bible. So, there has been a concerted effort in academia, the media, and popular culture to characterize the Bible as being filled with myth and fairy tale. Once that idea is established, whether it is true or not, much of the Bible’s magisterial authority has been eliminated.
VK: This is not only sad, it is dangerous. The Bible contains the special revelation that God has given to mankind. We can no more dispense with that revelation safely and without danger than the patient can ignore the mechanic who has just told him that he has an issue with his car or truck which he should attend to. The driver can ignore the mechanic’s advice but not without risking catastrophe. With respect to ignoring the Bible it’s even more dangerous. Mechanics are human. They can be wrong. The Bible was inspired by God and God is never wrong.
RD: Well said. What people need to realize is that all people, all of us, approach our lives using a set of axioms. These axioms form a lens through which we see the world. Sometimes these axioms are obvious and reasonable. Most of us tend to see the advice given to us by professionals as being useful and helpful. This means we will accept and follow the advice. But not all people operate by this axiom.
VK: Recent events in America and other western nations have unfortunately caused previous trusting people to begin to doubt the advice they previously wouldn’t have questioned. This may be medical advice, advice about nutrition and health, or prescriptions involving social, political, or cultural norms. Hmmm. I see why we need to talk about this. The widespread confusion over the virus and how to deal with it has caused a lot of people to no longer trust medical advice they once would have never questioned. And sadly, tragically, something similar has happened in our culture with respect to the Bible. 20, 30, or 40 years ago you could have settled a discussion by quoting the Bible. Today, if you quote the Bible people are quite likely to say “so what?”
RD: Right. We all view life through a set of axioms. Quite often those axioms have put into our lives by our families or cultures and we don’t even question them. The set of axioms that surround us tend to shape what many scholars or theologians will call our worldview. I don’t want to spend too much time on worldview today - because that would be the subject for a whole show or even series. But the collection and aggregation of our foundational axioms form our worldview. For most of us the ideas that form our worldview are unspoken and un-thought-of. Most of them seem almost self-evident. Well, interestingly enough these unseen, unspoken axioms can have a powerful role in areas of study like archeology.
VK: What are you thinking about?
RD: Let’s take a specific example. Chapters 6 through 9 of the book of Genesis clearly describe a worldwide flood. Despite the attempts of some critics to say that this flood was a localized, limited flood, the Genesis language is pretty clear. The flood endured by Noah and his family was worldwide and essentially reshaped the entire surface of the earth. And based on the time periods that we can derive by studying the genealogies elsewhere in Genesis we can confidently say that this worldwide flood occurred about 4,500 years ago.
VK: The Amplified Bible, Genesis, chapter 7, verses 19 and 20 say this: “The waters prevailed so greatly and were so mighty and overwhelming on the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. [In fact] the waters became fifteen cubits higher [than the highest ground], and the mountains were covered.”
RD: Yes. That’s pretty clear language. But, of course, despite the clarity of the language today there are a great many people, including scientists, who deny that such a flood ever happened. Deep time, uniformitarianism, and evolutionary thought rule the halls of academia, the discussions at most so-called science institutions, and popular thought. Thus, it has become a widely accepted axiom in archeological thought that the flood never happened. So, let’s think about this. If there was a worldwide flood about 4,500 years ago that reshaped the earth’s surface and deposited huge amounts of sedimentary material all of the earth then no structures that we can find on the earth today would be older than 4,500 years.
VK: It’s not impossible that some artifacts or parts of buildings might be found in one of the layers deposited by all the water moving around – but with the kind of flood described in the Bible nothing would have survived intact.
RD: Right. So, an archeologist who accepts the Bible’s flood account as being historical will rarely, if ever, be tempted to assign a date to ruins or an artifact older than 2,500 BC. One of the axioms which would form a part of their approach to their craft would include the presence of the flood in ancient history. They wouldn’t have any reason to try to put a date on an artifact earlier than 2,500 BC. But an archeologist who denies the historicity of the Bible’s flood account has no problem dating ruins or artifacts as being much older than 2,500 BC. And there are a number of sites around the world that have been assigned dates older than 2,500 BC. And similar older dates would be assigned to artifacts found in those ruins. Bible denying archeologists have an axiom in their worldview that says people have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and therefore ruins as old as 5,000 or 10,000 BC (or even older) are possible. The difference in the starting axioms between these two groups is going to lead to widely differing possibilities in assigning dates to ancient ruins, artifacts, or civilizations.
VK: Let’s remind our listeners of something that we’ve talked about before. Historical science is not the same as operational science. In operational science hypotheses can be tested and results of experiments repeated and affirmed or refuted. One scientist boils water at sea level at 212 degrees Fahrenheit and other scientists around the world can replicate those results. That’s operational science. But that is not true for historical sciences like archeology, cosmology, paleontology, or the certain elements of geology that pertain to age. All any scientist can do is look at evidence available in the present and attempt to provide an explanation for what that evidence says about the past. And there is just about no way to dispositively confirm that explanation. The best scientists can do is provide explanations that can be tested against the evidence and determine whether that explanation is consistent or inconsistent with the evidence.
RD: Agreed. Historical science can never reach the same level of certainty as operational science. Moreover – and this is really important – the number of scientists, historians, or archeologists who may accept a particular explanation does not determine the truth of that proposed explanation.
VK: Or, said slightly differently, truth is not determined by majority opinion. We’ve talked before on Anchored by Truth that today geologists acknowledge that many of the great river valleys all over the world were created by truly epic floods. David R. Montgomery, a geology professor at the University of Washington, labeled the floods that created these river valleys “Noah-like” in a 2012 article for Discover magazine. But in that same article Montgomery noted that the first geologist to propose that the river valleys of eastern Washington were caused by such floods was J. Harlan Bretz. But when Bretz initially proposed his explanation in the 1920’s he was met with widespread. Yet the recognition that Bretz was correct is so widespread today that, at the age of 97, Bretz was awarded the Geological Society of America’s highest honor. When Bretz first proposed his explanation for the origin of river valleys in eastern Washington he was a minority of one. But today it is widely acknowledged that Bretz was right.
RD: Exactly. And that same thing can be true for the axioms that archeologists or other scientists bring into their profession. Just because one, many, or most archeologists believe that there has never been a worldwide flood has no bearing on the truth of whether a flood actually occurred. What is important for listeners to note is that this rejection of the flood of Noah will greatly affect many of the explanations that flood-deniers offer. A specific instance of this that we will cover in greater depth is the ruins at Göbekli Tepe in south eastern Turkey. Secular archeologists date these ruins to about 11,000 – 12,000 years BC. Their assigned dating is largely due to the results of radiocarbon dating.
VK: But there are well known problems with the accuracy of radiocarbon dating. Creation Ministries International has several excellent articles on their website that discuss these problems. So, we won’t go into them today, but we will mention one. Radiocarbon dating depends on a comparison between the amount of carbon-14 present in a sample such as a wood fragment with the amount of carbon-14 that is assumed to have been present when the sample was first formed. One basic problem is that we have no idea how much carbon-14 was originally present. The starting value to which the current amount is present is always an assumption. There is no way to know for sure what that starting value was. That’s one reason we say that dates to artifacts or ruins are always “assigned” not discovered. There is never any way to prove that assumptions that went into the assigned date are accurate. And it is quite common for different dating methods to differ widely in the assigned dates.
RD: Yes. So, largely based on radiocarbon dating the ruins at Göbekli Tepe have been dated far older than possible when considering the date for the Noahic flood. This points out the importance of the date assigners underlying set of starting axioms.
VK: So, how can we know who and what to believe?
RD: By doing what we always recommend – consider the evidence and apply logic and reason. In the case of whether the Genesis flood occurred there is an abundance of scientific and historical evidence that it did. And we have covered that evidence in depth a couple of times on Anchored by Truth. And the series that discuss the flood of Noah are available from our website: crystalseabooks.com. In the case of the dating of the ruins of Göbekli Tepe one simple question to ask is whether the ruins are more consistent with a hunter-gatherer society (which is what secular archeologists tell us existed at that time) or a society that possessed some level of mathematical and construction sophistication. In the case of the ruins we now know that they were laid out with a level of mathematical precision that would be inconsistent with a society that had not supposedly even entered a settle agricultural phase. But they are consistent with a community that possessed the kind of technological sophistication described in Genesis chapters 4 through 6.
VK: Let’s remember that in chapter 1 of the book of Genesis the Bible tells us that Adam was created with a sophisticated knowledge of many subjects. He possessed language, a knowledge of biology and botany, and the ability to reason and analyze comparative attributes. And, of course, Noah in the pre-flood environment was able to undertake a large naval architecture project. So, his descendants after the flood would have retained much of this knowledge. By contrast an evolutionary viewpoint says that man’s predecessors knew nothing of math and technology and had to discover everything? So, in this case what we know from the ruins is more consistent with a Biblical explanation than the alternative
RD: Exactly. This line of reasoning cannot reach the level of absolute certainty but following it, in the case of the ruins at Göbekli Tepe we can make the case that the Biblical explanation for their existence and dating is at least as compelling as the flood-denying alternative. And that is what we wanted to point out in this episode. When people see reports of new and sensational archeological discoveries in the news or on the internet – that purportedly show how the Bible is wrong - they need to stop and think. They need to examine the worldview and axioms of the group making the discovery and they need to research and consider the Biblical alternative. When they do they are going to find out that the Bible holds its own in every situation.
VK: Well, This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer that all of us would receive the ability to discern truth from the Holy Spirit who is the only One that can truly illuminate the human mind. God created the human mind and it would be far better for us to receive the least little bit of his infinite wisdom to guide our lives than anything that world can provide.
---- PRAYER FOR ILLUMINATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the Contemporary English Version)
Genesis, Chapter 7, verses 5 through 7, Contemporary English Version

Episode 249 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 4 – Amazing Accuracy Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script: Then the Rabshakeh stood and called out in a loud voice in the language of Judah: “Hear the word of the great king, the king of Assyria! 2 Kings, Chapter 18, verse 28, English Standard Version

******** VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. Today we’re moving on in the series we began a few episodes ago called “Archeology and the Bible.” Archeology as a science can be very helpful to show an unbelieving world that that the Bible is true. The Bible is a book that is firmly set in place and time. It contains a large body of history and, despite the doubts of some, the history contained in the Bible has been shown repeatedly to be reliable. And one way the reliability of the Bible’s history has been demonstrated is through archeological finds and artifacts. So, to help us continue our discussion today in the studio we have RD Fierro, who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, one of the big points that we are trying to make in this that archeological finds can be a valuable source of support for the accuracy of the history that the Bible reports. Can you give us an example of that? RD: Absolutely. But before I do that I would also like to say “hi” to everyone and welcome them to Anchored by Truth. So, here is a quick example that will lead us into today's discussion. Most people who have read the Bible know that the books of 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, and 1 and 2 Chronicles are historical books. They describe the history of the nation of Israel after the period of the judges ended. VK: As a quick refresher just about everybody knows that at one time the Hebrews lived in Egypt for a period of hundreds of years. Then around 1445 BC, plus or minus a few years, Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt. After a period of 40 years of wandering in the desert the Hebrews finally entered Palestine and displaced many of the Canaanites who had been living there. Well, for the first 400 or so years after they entered Palestine the Hebrews lived a loose confederation of tribal states under a succession of judges. And the book of Judges in the Bible describes this time period. But around 1100 BC Saul was anointed king and the Hebrews lived in a monarchial system for the next 500 years or so. Under Saul, David, and David’s son, Solomon, Israel had a united kingdom. But after Solomon died the kingdom split into the northern and southern kingdoms. The northern kingdom was called Israel and the southern kingdom was called Judah. RD: Yes. Well, chapter 17 of the book of 1 Samuel describes the epic encounter between David and Goliath. The encounter took place in the Valley of Elah which is very near the boundary between the Philistines and Israel. Today there is a site called Khirbet Qeiyafa which is the site of an ancient fortress city overlooking the Elah Valley of Israel. It’s about 20 miles southwest of Jerusalem and 7 miles from Goliath’s hometown of Gath. Since 2007, excavations by Yosef Garfinkel of The Hebrew University and Saar Ganor of the Israel Antiquities Authority, have uncovered a large number of artifacts at Qeiyafa. One of the artifacts they found was a jar with the name “Eshbaal” on it. Eshbaal was one of the sons of Saul. 1 Chronicles 8:33 says “Ner became the father of Kish; and Kish became the father of Saul; and Saul became the father of Jonathan, and Malchishua, and Abinadab, and Eshbaal.” VK: And what is interesting is that Garfinkel has dated the find to about the time that Saul would have been the king. But you’re not asserting that this jar actually belonged to Saul’s son, are you? RD: No. But what the find does point out is that the name “Eshbaal” was in use around that time. Furthermore, Garfinkel thinks it likely that the evidence at this site is indicative of a stronger government and nation at that point in Israel’s history than has been commonly thought. Part of the reason they think this is because the excavators at the site found out that the city at the site had two gates. According to an article on PatternsofEvidence.com “This has caused them to propose that the site was biblical Shaaraim, which means “two gates” in Hebrew and this settlement/fortress is also mentioned as being near the site of the David vs. Goliath confrontation in the Bible’s account.” The English Standard Version of 1 Samuel 17:52 says this “And the men of Israel and Judah rose with a shout and pursued the Philistines as far as Gath and the gates of Ekron, so that the wounded Philistines fell on the way from Shaaraim as far as Gath and Ekron.” We’ll put a link to the article in the notes that accompany the podcast version of this episode. VK: So, these archeological finds are entirely consistent with the Biblical record of the encounter between David and Goliath and they are consistent with the timing and location of the encounter. As we’ve said before, this does not rise to the level of conclusive proof but it does mean that there is evidence that what the Bible says about the confrontation between the Philistines and the Hebrews, and the fight between David and Goliath, has significant historical support. RD: Right. And that’s a good lead into what I wanted to talk about today. Names and titles tend to change through times and they vary from nation to nation and culture to culture. So, if we find out that a writer uses names and titles correctly, that their use is consistent with the time, place, and surroundings, we can have confidence that the writer has been accurate in their reporting. VK: For instance at one time Elsie was a very common woman’s name in America and Horatio was a common men’s name. Horatio Alger was one of the best known authors of the late 19th century. But you never hear of parents naming their children “Elsie” or “Horatio” today. So, if you see those names you can be pretty sure they weren’t born in the late 20th century or early 21st century. Same thing is true with titles. In England the highest governmental executive officer is called the “Prime Minister.” In American the title “President” is used. So, if a writer were to write an account and call an American office holder the “Prime Minister” we could be reasonably sure that some, if not most, of their account was inaccurate. In ancient Egypt the ruler was called “Pharaoh.” In Rome before Julius Caesar came to power the leaders of the Roman government were called “counsels.” After Julius Caesar made himself dictator most of the men who succeeded him also went by the title Caesar. We could date the reign of Roman rulers at least somewhat by what title applied. Names and titles tend to be location, time, and culturally dependent. RD: Right. So, let’s take a look at a specific example of a Biblical account that gets even obscure titles right. In 701 BC the southern kingdom of Judah was threatened by the Assyrian Empire under their king named Sennacherib. Sennacherib is a name found in 3 books of the Bible: 2 Kings, 2 Chronicles, and Isaiah. Sennacherib began to reign 710 BC and even though he only reigned a few years he was prominent in the Bible because of his threats to Judah. VK: Hezekiah who was the king of Judah at the time had freed Judah from the Assyrians. As a consequence Sennacherib marched an army against him, and took all the strong cities of Judah except Jerusalem. Hezekiah, realized the predicament he was in and sent ambassadors with tribute to Sennacherib [SIN-AT-CHUR-RIB], who at the time was besieging and destroying another city in Judah. Sennacherib accepted his tribute, but refused to depart, and he sent some of his senior officials with an insulting message to Jerusalem. Hezekiah then prayed to the Lord, who sent a destroying angel against the Assyrian army, and killed a 185,000 of the Assyrians in one night. Sennacherib then retreated to his capital city of Nineveh. But two or three years after his return from Jerusalem he was murdered by two of his sons.

RD: Right. All of that history is contained in the Bible. But the Bible’s account has been confirmed by records that were found in the ruins of Nineveh. The ruins of Nineveh are in a mound called Kouyunijik, which is outside the current city of Mosul, Iraq. The mound has been explored and excavated and the excavation has uncovered the remains of a huge palace of the type that would have been built by a powerful king. Inside the palace are huge stone tablets which formed the walls of its various apartments. These tablets are covered with bas-reliefs and inscriptions and while they have suffered over time some large portions remain intact. The fragments that remain are very important. One series of tablets recounts the Sennacherib exploits, who calls himself "the subduer of kings from the upper sea of the setting sun to the lower sea of the rising sun." In our language that would be from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf. VK: For those of us who are interested in the Bible the most important of these mural pages recount the history of Sennacherib’s war against Syria and the Jews, in the third year of his reign. In his campaign region he fought with an Egyptian army, sent to help King Hezekiah. Sennacherib defeated the Egyptians and conquered a number of cities in Judah. One inscription on a tablet says "Hezekiah king of Judah, who had not submitted to my authority, forty-six of his principal cities, and fortresses and villages dependent upon them, of which I took no account, I captured, and carried away their spoil. The fortified towns, and the rest of his towns which I spoiled, I severed from his country, and gave to the kings of Askelon, Ekron, and Gaza, so as to make his country small. In addition to the former tribute imposed upon their countries, I added a tribute the nature of which I fixed." RD: Now it’s importance to note that in this boast Sennacherib does not claim to have conquered Jerusalem itself. He claims to have carried away Hezekiah's family, servants, and treasures, with a tribute of thirty talents of gold and eight hundred talents of silver. The amount of gold Sennacherib mentions is the same reported in the Bible narrative. The amount of silver claimed by Sennacherib differs from the amount in scripture. Scripture just mentions three hundred talents of silver. So, it is possible that Hezekiah gave Sennacherib 300 talents of silver because that was all the silver money he had. The five hundred additional talents claimed in the Ninevite record may include the temple and palace treasures that Hezekiah gave when he tried to buy Sennacherib off. VK: The Bible describes these events this way, “In the fourteenth year of King Hezekiah’s reign, Sennacherib king of Assyria attacked all the fortified cities of Judah and captured them. So Hezekiah king of Judah sent this message to the king of Assyria at Lachish: ‘I have done wrong. Withdraw from me, and I will pay whatever you demand of me.’ The king of Assyria exacted from Hezekiah king of Judah three hundred talents of silver and thirty talents of gold. So Hezekiah gave him all the silver that was found in the temple of the Lord and in the treasuries of the royal palace. At this time Hezekiah king of Judah stripped off the gold with which he had covered the doors and doorposts of the temple of the Lord, and gave it to the king of Assyria.” That’s 2 Kings, chapter 18, verses 13 through 16 from the New International Version. You know it’s interesting that the Bible doesn’t record Hezekiah seeking help from the Lord until Jerusalem itself was threatened. RD: That is interesting and I think it points out something important. From archeological records and artifacts we can learn much of what happened in history. But it’s only from the Bible that we can see the interactions between God and his people. Of course it’s important to have confidence that the history in the Bible is accurate but it’s more important to know what God wants us to learn from that history. Hezekiah and Judah endured a lot of loss before Hezekiah finally sent some of his court officials to the prophet Isaiah to ask the Lord for help. VK: 2 Kings, chapter 19 verses 5 through 7 say, “When King Hezekiah’s officials came to Isaiah, Isaiah said to them, ‘Tell your master, ‘This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard—those words with which the underlings of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me. Listen! When he hears a certain report, I will make him want to return to his own country, and there I will have him cut down with the sword.” Then in verses 32 and 33 the Lord tells Hezekiah through Isaiah “He will not enter this city or shoot an arrow here. He will not come before it with shield or build a siege ramp against it. By the way that he came he will return; he will not enter this city …” Those quotes are from the New International Version. RD: This is a great lesson for us all. At one point the southern nation of Judah was subject to the dominion of the Assyrian Empire. Hezekiah’s father, Ahaz, had put them in that position because Ahaz had asked the Assyrians to help him against a confederation that was composed of the kings of the northern nation, Israel and one of the neighboring states, Aram. The Bible tells us that Ahaz was a wicked, ungodly king. Ahaz was so wicked he even practiced child sacrifice. So, rather than seeking help from the Lord, Ahaz looked to the wicked pagan power of Assyria for help for Judah. He got the help but it made Judah subject to Assyria. VK: But unlike his wicked father the Bible tells us that Hezekiah was a righteous king. Hezekiah led a reformation within Judah and eventually Hezekiah was able to achieve a measure of independence for Judah. The Bible tells us that for 14 years of Hezekiah’s reign the Assyrians did not attack. But then this new Assyrian king, Sennacherib, ascended the throne and he appears to have resented the fact that Judah had broken away. So, he attacked Judah. And despite that fact that Hezekiah was a very good king he apparently did not seek the Lord’s help until the Assyrian campaign had progressed quite a bit. RD: And that may be because in the years after he assumed the throne and before the Assyrians attacked Hezekiah appears to have formed a relationship or an alliance with Egypt and Ethiopia. Hezekiah may have been counting on his earthly alliances more than his heavenly father. Again, this is a lesson for us. As it’s sometimes put, we need to make “prayer our first response and not our last resort.” In Hezekiah’s case he appears to have made an appeal to the Lord his last resort because he didn’t send his officials to Isaiah until Sennacherib had conquered much of Judah and was threatening Jerusalem. VK: I think a lot of us are like that – even many Christians. We think God is there or at least we hope He is. But when troubles come our way we almost behave as if He isn’t. We try to handle our problems using our own resources, strength, and plans. All too often we don’t immediately go to prayer and start petitioning the Lord for Him to intercede. And, all too often we certainly have been consulting with the Lord before we got into trouble to ask him what we should be doing that might have kept us out of trouble to begin with. RD: And part of the reason we permit this to happen is because we haven’t studied the Bible to see how God has dealt with His people throughout history. This is a serious weakness in the faith of the modern church. We attempt to build our faith on what we think the Bible says and not on what it actually does say. But I am persuaded that a large part of the reason we treat our faith this way is because too many Christians really aren’t persuaded that the Bible is the inspired word of God. At least that what the surveys tell us. VK: Ligonier Ministries and Lifeway Books collaborate every two years and do surveys to determine what they call the “state of theology.” One of the statements they test is: “The Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but is not literally true.” In 2014 only 41% of adult Americans agreed with this statement. In 2022 53% of adults agreed with the statement. That’s an alarming trend. RD: Less than half of adult Americans think that the Bible is literally true. I don’t know for sure but I suspect when I was a kid in the 1960’s the percentage would have been in the 70’s or even 80%. And part of the reason the percentage of adult Americans who believe the Bible is literally true is because the Bible has been under an unrelenting assault. That’s why seemingly arcane details about archeology are important. These details help us to assure ourselves, first and foremost, that the Bible is true and then they help us to convey that to others. We won’t rely on our faith if we’re not confident in our faith. And we’re not going to be confident in our faith if we don’t have assurance that the written source of our faith, the Bible, is true. An assured faith is a faith that will turn to God in trouble and frankly will please that God more than a faith that is built on 2nd hand knowledge. So let’s go to one final example today of how the Bible has been validated by archeology. VK: We heard in our opening scripture that it was not the king of Assyria that spoke directly to the residents of Jerusalem in making his threats, but one of his designated officials. And as we mentioned at the start of our episode getting the names and titles right when reporting history gives us confidence the writer was reporting things accurately. Well, archaeology has validated the biblical terms used for the Assyrian officials who confronted Hezekiah. RD: Right. From the Judean city of Lachish, Sennacherib sent some of his high-ranking men, together with a delegation of his army, to Jerusalem. They presented a message to Hezekiah as a means of intimidation. Three Assyrian officers who brought Sennacherib’s message are listed: “the Tartan, the Rab-saris, and the Rabshakeh” That’s 2 Kings 18:17. Up until the ruins of Nineveh were explored these titles were obscure and puzzling to Bible commentators. But all three terms have since been found in ancient Assyrian records. The Assyrian records mentions the Tartan—the senior military commander who ranked next to the king. They also mention the slightly lower-ranked Rabshakeh, which means ‘chief of princes’. The Rab-saris, another of the king’s close officials (possibly chief eunuch), is mentioned in a small contract document. VK: And while we don’t know everything about the exact duties performed by these officers, the preservation of their titles is one of many examples where the details in Scripture, though otherwise lost from secular history, have been verified by archaeological discoveries. RD: Right. And let’s remember from the opening scripture we heard that the chief spokesman for the Assyrians when they threatened Jerusalem was the Rabshakeh, a slightly lower officer – not the military commander. This is very similar to what we see in today’s governments where announcements are usually made by designated spokesman, not the actual leader. Think about the press briefings that are conducted in the White House or Pentagon. VK: And it is interesting to hear that the spokesman for the Assyrians was like a lot of political spokesmen today. He didn’t just confine himself to asking the Hebrews to surrender. Instead he can’t help but do some boasting. He actually said: “Hear the word of the great king, the king of Assyria! Thus says the king: ‘Do not let Hezekiah deceive you, for he will not be able to deliver you out of my hand. … And do not listen to Hezekiah when he misleads you by saying, “The Lord will deliver us.” Has any of the gods of the nations ever delivered his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria?’” That’s 2 Kings, chapter 18, selected verses from 28 through 33. But the Lord did deliver Jerusalem from the hands of the Assyrians. They made a big mistake when they exhibited disdain for the almighty God. They treated the almighty, everlasting God as if he were just one of the other gods – who were not gods at all but just idols made by human hands. That was not smart. And just as Isaiah had prophesied Sennacherib never conquered Jerusalem and was murdered a short while later. RD: Right. Sennacherib and the Assyrians were like all people who oppose the Lord. They enjoy some earthly success for a while but they are long term losers. Less than a hundred years later the Assyrians were conquered by the Babylonians - and as we have discussed – disappeared so completely that for 2,000 years nobody even new where Nineveh (their capital) once stood. But Hezekiah and the people who trusted in the Lord survived. So, the details of this encounter show the precision and reliability of the Biblical record. You know it’s one thing for records to be able to get the “big” names and titles right. People remember the names of famous kings or queens or the titles of rulers. But it’s another thing when the writers get the titles of lesser officials right. That demonstrates an attention to detail and a concern for accuracy. But that’s what we see in the Bible. And it’s why the assertions that the Bible is not true, filled with myth and fairy tales, or was written hundreds of years after the events that it records are so easily shown to be wrong. VK: And that is what we wanted to point out in this episode and in this series. Archeological discoveries have repeatedly supported the history contained in the Bible. And when they supposedly don’t – when purportedly a discovery shows how the Bible is wrong - we need to stop and think. As we discussed in a previous episode in this series we need to examine the worldview and axioms of the group making the discovery and they need to research and consider the Biblical alternative. All archeologists look at evidence in present and try to determine what it says about the past. Often later discoveries will result an initial opinion being revised. Quite often when that happens we find out the Bible had it right the whole time. Well, This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer that our communities and nations would repent of our departure from the worship of the One True God. The God that saved Hezekiah and the Hebrews from the Assyrians still rules today and He will still help all those who turn in trust to Him. ---- PRAYER FOR RESTORATION OF THE WORSHIP OF THE ONE TRUE GOD VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!” (Bible Quotes from the English Standard Version and New International Version) 2 Kings, Chapter 18, verse 28, English Standard Version

David Battles Goliath: Is There Evidence That David Won (patternsofevidence.com)

When God rescued King Hezekiah, part 2 (creation.com) Topical Bible: Sennacherib (biblehub.com)

Episode 250 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 5 – Names We Know Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script: [Belshazzar] called in his advisors, who claimed they could talk with the spirits of the dead and understand the meanings found in the stars. [Belshazzar] told them, “The man who can read this writing … will become the third most powerful man in my kingdom. Daniel, Chapter 5, verse 7, Contemporary English Version

******** VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K and I want to welcome you to Anchored by Truth. Anchored by Truth is brought to you by Crystal Sea Books because we have a passion for wanting everyone to reawaken to the life giving truth that is found only in the pages of the Bible. The Bible is the only book in the world that provides God’s special revelation to mankind and contains the good news of salvation that is available through Christ Jesus. Today we are going to continue our series that we are calling “Archeology and the Bible.” The Bible is a book that is firmly set in place and time. It contains a significant amount of history and, despite the doubts of some critics the history contained in the Bible is accurate and reliable. And one way the reliability of the Bible’s history has been demonstrated is through archeological finds and artifacts. So, to help us continue our discussion today in the studio we have RD Fierro, who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, can you give us a brief summary of the points that we have made thus far in our “Archeology and the Bible” series? RD: Sure. But before I do that I would also like to say “hi” to everyone and welcome them to Anchored by Truth. As you mentioned our passion at Crystal Sea Books is to help people either connect or reconnect with the Bible as an essential part of their life. Until relatively recently, for hundreds of years in fact, people have recognized the Bible as being of immeasurable value for both life and success. President Theodore Roosevelt once said that “A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education.” What Roosevelt recognized is that the Bible is a unique book. The Bible imparts not only knowledge but wisdom. VK: And that is a point that is often missing in our technologically obsessed culture. We have more facts and data at our fingerprints, literally in our pockets and purses, than any generation in history. Yet, as important as some of that information may be it does surprisingly little to contribute to wisdom. In fact, in some cases it seems like the more information we can command the less wisdom we choose to absorb. RD: Sadly, I agree with you. Our smart phones can tell us every address on the planet and how to get to them but they do precious little to helping us get the most important place in all of creation: heaven. VK: And what good would it do us to have visited every amazing site or attraction on earth if we don’t ensure that we are steadily on course for heaven as we travel this world’s highways and byways? RD: Exactly. As that quote from Teddy Roosevelt tells us the way we can be really smart with our “smart phones” is to use them to give us immediate access to the Bible. But no one is going to be motivated to read the Bible, whether it is on their phone, their computer, or on paper, if they aren’t convinced that the Bible has important things to say. And for them to be convinced of that they must believe the Bible is true. VK: I saw a yard sign the other day that said “Read banned books.” Ironically, the book most banned in today’s culture is the Bible. It’s not permitted in government run schools and it’s excluded from a lot of government buildings. At one time Bethesda Naval Hospital wanted to keep visitors from bringing Bibles into the hospital as part of comforting wounded soldiers. A lot of social service programs are prohibited from mentioning the Bible as part of treating people with substance abuse or mental health problems. I doubt the person who had the sign in their yard realizes that in putting that sign up they are actually encouraging Bible readership. RD: Right. But as an old boss of mine used to say, “it’s better to light a candle than curse the darkness.” So, the candle we want to light is simply the one that stands in front of an open Bible. And that’s the reason we wanted to take a few episodes of Anchored by Truth and talk about archeology. There have been a great many archeological finds that have confirmed the accuracy of the history contained in the Bible even when that history had been doubted by the secular world. And we’ve covered a number of specific examples in the first four episodes of this series. Today we want to provide a couple more examples of instances where secular historians doubted names contained in the Bible but those names have now been confirmed. VK: In our last episode we talked about the fact that when a historian gets names and titles right it increases our confidence that the historian is reporting history accurately. And in our last episode we showed that the Bible not only gets the names and titles of major historical figures right, but is also accurate with less prominent people and government officials. We are going to continue that theme today. Where do you want to start? RD: Let’s take a look at one of the best known stories in the Bible – the handwriting on the wall. Even though the story is well known most people know very little about the principle human player in the story – Belshazzar. VK: We heard about Belshazzar [BELL-SHAZ-ZAR] in our opening scripture. He was a Babylonian ruler who was reigning in Babylon at the time the Babylonians fell to the combined army of the Medes and the Persians who were being led by the Persian king, Cyrus. This story is found in the book of Daniel chapter 5. Belshazzar was hosting a banquet for nobles and royal officials and all of them were getting drunk. At one point in the festivities the king ordered his servants to bring out the sacred vessels that had been brought to Babylon when the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem. The Babylonians took all the gold and silver serving cups and vessels from the temple and carried them back to Babylon. There they put them in the royal treasury. On this occasion the king appears to have wanted to remind everyone of the glorious history of the Babylonian Empire so he commanded the vessels to be brought out for use in their drunken revel. RD: Yes. So, most people know the next part of the story. As Belshazzar and the Babylonians are committing sacrilege with the temple treasures a giant man’s hand appears in their midst and begins writing on the wall. The hand writes four words but no one knows how to interpret them. So, Belshazzar announces that if they can find anyone who can read the words and interpret them, Belshazzar will make that person the 3rd most important person in the Empire. It’s very important to note that Belshazzar didn’t offer to make them the 2nd most important person in the Empire but the 3rd most important. VK: That is a strange detail. Why make someone the 3rd most important person in a kingdom? That just seems like a very strange way to offer a reward. RD: And from archeology we now know why Belshazzar framed his offer that way. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. For many years secular historians thought that this story from the book of Daniel got the name of the king wrong and therefore that the story was just fictional. That’s because it was well known from history that the last king of Babylon, before they were conquered, was Nabonidus. Historians were somewhat uncertain as to how Nabonidus ascended to the throne of Babylon. He wasn’t in the lineage of the Babylonian royal family. He seems to have some kind of a prominent career before he became king and many scholars believe he had married a daughter of Nebuchadnezzar who is the most famous Babylonian king and is prominently featured in the early part of the book of Daniel. One thing that does seem to be clear is that Nabonidus’ elevation to being the king was as a big a surprise to him as it was to others. Notwithstanding his unlikely ascension to the throne Nabonidus was well known enough to have history remember his name. The same thing was not true for his son Belshazzar. Secular history forgot about Belshazzar for centuries but the Bible never did. VK: And for anyone who hasn’t read the book of Daniel, or read it in a while, we’d recommend picking it up tonight. Daniel is the 4th of the Major Prophets but also the shortest. The entire book is only 12 chapters and the book is easy to read. The first 6 chapters are history and contain some of the best known stories in the Bible like Daniel in the lion’s den, the 3 Hebrews thrown in the fiery furnace, and the handwriting on the wall. The last 6 chapters are all prophetic and they contain an unparalleled demonstration that Daniel was given accurate prophetic information about events hundreds of years into the future. You think Daniel is one of the most important books of the Old Testament, don’t you? RD: I do. All the books of the Bible are important, but not all books are equally consumable by modern readers. And while I hate to start ranking books of the Bible I would highly recommend that everyone become very familiar with the books of Genesis, Psalms, Isaiah, and Daniel from the Old Testament. Naturally, they should read the entire Old Testament, but if anyone hasn’t spent much time with the Old Testament I’d suggest they really become familiar with those books. VK: But let’s get back to Belshazzar and archeology. RD: Yes, let’s. So, until the 19th century so far as secular history was concerned Belshazzar didn’t exist. But in 1854, four clay cylinders with identical inscriptions were excavated from the ruins of the ancient city of Ur. These clay cylinders were subsequently named the Nabonidus Cylinders. These Nabonidus Cylinders contained Nabonidus’ prayer to the moon god for “Belshazzar, the eldest son—my offspring.” Thus, in 1854 Belshazzar’s existence was confirmed—as Nabonidus’ firstborn son and heir to his throne. VK: But the confirmation of the Biblical account didn’t end there did it? RD: Nope. In 1882, a translation of another ancient cuneiform text, the Nabonidus Chronicle, was published. We learned from the Nabonidus Chronicle that Nabonidus was a mostly absentee king. He spent 10 years of his 17-year reign living in Tema, Arabia which was 450 miles away from Babylon. The king left Belshazzar in charge during his frequent absences from Babylon. And we know that Nabonidus was accustomed to putting Belshazzar in charge of Babylon during his absence. There’s a Persian account of Nabonidus, published in 1924, that stated that, as “he started out for a long journey”, Nabonidus “entrusted the kingship” to “his oldest (son), the firstborn.” Furthermore, there are other ancient cuneiform texts found in the early 1900s which also mention Belshazzar, including a tablet from Erech in which both he and his father were jointly invoked in an oath, suggesting they both had royal authority. So, Belshazzar was used to functioning in the role of a king for years while his father was away. Not only do the Nabonidus Chronicles refer to Belshazzar as “the crown prince” they also explain that Nabonidus was away from Babylon when it fell. Two days before the handwriting appeared on the wall Nabonidus had fled from the Persians when they defeated him at Sippar. The engagement is sometimes called the battle of Opis. So, Belshazzar was the highest authority in Babylon at the time of Babylon’s capture just as Chapter 5 of Daniel describes. VK: That detail about the war between the Babylonians and the Medes and Persians isn’t in the Bible but it does help us to better understand the events of Chapter 5 of Daniel, doesn’t it? Belshazzar’s father had just suffered a major defeat and he undoubtedly knew that Cyrus was headed for Babylon itself. The walls of Babylon were considered to be impregnable so he wouldn’t have thought the city was in real danger. While ancient estimates vary, the walls of Babylon were probably at least 25 feet thick and possibly as much as 80 feet thick. Some ancient reporters said you could drive 2 chariot teams abreast across the top of the walls. Belshazzar’s father probably thought Cyrus would just exhaust himself trying to get past the walls. So, he moved off to a safe distance to recover and rebuild his army. But Babylon wasn’t safe because the almighty God had previously told the Babylonians he would bring about their defeat. And that message was again given to the Babylonians because that’s what the handwriting on the wall said - even though the king and his guests were initially confused about the writing. RD: And the confusion may have been because the language the words were written a language the king and his guests couldn’t read. Some scholars believe the words were not written in Aramaic script but in a non-human script that Daniel was given a special ability to read. But, many scholars believe that the words were most likely written in Aramaic because that was the language used for official Babylonian purposes. But it’s possible that the words, even if they were written in Aramaic, were written without vowels or word separations. If so all the king and the audience might have seen was a string of consonants and they didn’t know how to separate the string into the individual words. At any rate the king didn’t have to wonder too long because once Daniel arrived he immediately read the message. The New Living Translation puts verse 25 of Chapter 5 of Daniel this way, “This is the message that was written: Mene, Mene, Tekel , and Parsin.” In their ordinary use these words are all monetary weights. VK: But, that word string still might not have made much sense to the king. The God’s Word Translation puts verse 25 of Daniel, Chapter 5 this way: “This is what has been written: Numbered, Numbered, Weighed, and Divided.” So, even from that translation we can see it was strange message. Even if the king and the guests could read the words it’s no wonder they were confused about what it meant. RD: But, once again, the king didn’t have to wonder too long because in addition to reading the words Daniel also told the king what the words meant. VK: The God’s Word Translation says verses 26 through 28 say, “This is its meaning: Numbered-God has numbered the days of your kingdom and will bring it to an end. Weighed-you have been weighed on a scale and found to be too light. Divided-your kingdom will be divided and given to the Medes and Persians." So, the basic message to Belshazzar and his drunken friends was clear. Your time as rulers of your world is over. But there is no way his father could have known this as he was retreating to lick his wounds. His father probably thought the City of Babylon was safe because it always had been. RD: Probably. So, the situation as described in chapter 5 of Daniel makes sense based on what we now know from the Bible and other historical sources. Belshazzar’s father, Nabonidus, had suffered a major defeat at the hands of Cyrus at Sippar. The Babylonian nobles who weren’t with Nabonidus fled into Babylon thinking they were safe behind its impenetrable walls. They were all stressed out at because they knew about the loss to the Persians. So, to relieve their stress Belshazzar decides to have a party and everyone there gets drunk. VK: So, Belshazzar’s father is off recovering. Belshazzar and the Babylonian elites want to forget their troubles by getting drunk. And in the midst of their drunken revelry Belshazzar decides to remind everyone of their former victories by having the servants bring out the temple vessels from the conquest of Jerusalem. Everything looked great – right up until the moment the giant hand appears and tells them the party is over. And it was. History records that the fall of Babylon was sudden and dramatic. Many historians believe that what the Persians did to get past the impregnable walls was to divert the flow of the Euphrates River which ran under the walls and supplied Babylon with water even if a siege was taking place. RD: The Greek historian Xenophon gave an account of the fall of Babylon which also contains many of the elements that are found in the Biblical account. Xenophon says that the attacking Persians found that when the entered the city there was revelry taking place everywhere – so much so that the noise of the attackers was just mixed in with the noise that was already coming from the big party. Xenophon also tells us that the attacking Persians were able to overcome the defenders because they didn’t realize they were under attack until the Persian attack was well underway. And he adds that in all the confusion some of the attacking soldiers were able to get into the palace and kill the king – who from the Biblical account we know was Belshazzar, not his father, Nabonidus. VK: And the fact that the kingly figure who was present in Babylon when the Persians conquered the city was Belshazzar explains that peculiar detail we pointed out earlier. Belshazzar served as king in his father’s absence but Belshazzar was not the king. He was not number one in the kingdom. He was number two. So, when he wanted to offer a reward to someone who could read the handwriting on the wall he couldn’t offer to make that person the number two person in the kingdom. He could only offer to make them number three – which is what he did offer. And the Bible faithfully captured this seemingly odd detail. And as we’ve pointed out, it’s one thing for a historical record to get the big things right. But it’s even more impressive when even the fine details are proven to be accurate. RD: And, over and over again, we find that from the Bible. In this instance, of the handwriting on the wall, the Bible has the big things right. The Persians did suddenly and completely overwhelm the Babylonian defenses. Even the Greek historians recorded that. One reason the Persians were able to do that was frankly because most of the people who should have been defending the city or leading the city’s defense were drunk and incapacitated. Xenophon and the Bible agree on that. And the Babylonian Empire ceased to exist when Babylon fell and the empire was just absorbed into the Medo-Persian Empire which would last for the next 250 years. Those were the big parts of the story. But the Bible story preserved two key smaller parts of the story that were lost to secular history until the archeological finds of the 19th century. VK: Secular history forgot that it was Belshazzar who was killed that night. And, of course, secular history did not record that as Belshazzar was trying to comprehend a miraculous message the best thing he could offer was the third position in the kingdom. RD: Just for a second let’s think back to the story of Joseph in the book of Genesis. Joseph was able to interpret a dream for the Pharaoh who was ruling Egypt. In response Pharaoh was able to make Joseph the 2nd most powerful man in Egypt. He could do that because Pharaoh was the most powerful man. Pharaoh was number 1. So, he could make Joseph number 2 and he did. Belshazzar was already the 2nd most powerful man in Babylon. So, he could only offer the reward of making someone the 3rd most powerful person. The fact that the story of the handwriting on the wall preserves this seemingly coincidental detail is not only fascinating but it also helps confirm when the book of Daniel was written. VK: How is that? RD: Critics of the book of Daniel like to assert that Daniel was not written in the 6th century BC because that would mean Daniel contains undeniably accurate prophecy. And that would prove it was divinely inspired. That’s something the critics have to prevent. So, they assert Daniel was written in the 1st or 2nd century BC when many of the events Daniel prophesied had already occurred. That way Daniel would have been writing history not prophecy. But, as we have been discussing, in the 1st or 2nd century BC Israel, Egypt, and the Mideast had been under the dominion of the Greeks for 200 years. And by that time there is no way a Hebrew writer would have preserved a detail so insignificant as Belshazzar only offering the 3rd position in the empire as a reward. Someone writing a pious fraud, even if they had known the details of the Babylonian system of governance would have had no use for that detail in their story. To tell the tale of God’s judgment on the Babylonians by means of the Medes and Persians the fiction writer would have gained little to nothing for their narrative by inserting a detail in their story that would only have cast doubt on the story. Think back to the story of Joseph. A fiction writer would have gained more credit for their fiction if they had made Daniel a parallel figure to Joseph than inserting a detail that would have only confused their readers. But a writer writing contemporaneously with the events and writing an accurate history would get the details right. VK: And that is what we wanted to point out in this episode and in this series. Archeological discoveries have repeatedly supported the history contained in the Bible. There are times when secular history loses details, events, kings, and even cities that the Bible preserves. But as archeologists have spent time in the territory described by the Bible quite often records or artifacts come to light that confirm the Bible’s accounts. When that happens we find out the Bible had it right the whole time. Well, This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer that our communities and nations would repent of our departure from the worship of the One True God. The Babylonians would have been far better off to confess their sins to the One True God than mocking Him by drinking from vessels stolen from His temple. They paid a high price for their lack of repentance. Let’s not repeat their mistake. ---- PRAYER OF CORPORATE CONFESSION (MARCUS) VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!” (Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version) Daniel, Chapter 5, verse 7, Contemporary English Version

Archaeology Belshazzar (creation.com) Daniel 5 Barnes' Notes (biblehub.com)

Episode 251 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 6 – Names We Know 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
… [in] the fourth month of Zedekiah’s eleventh year, the city wall was broken through. … the officials of the king of Babylon came and took seats in the Middle Gate: Nergal-Sharezer of Samgar, Nebo-Sarsekim a chief officer …and all the other officials … of Babylon. .
Jeremiah, Chapter 39, verses 1 through 3, New International Version

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VK: Hello and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. This is the 6th episode in our series on archeology and the Bible. At Anchored by Truth we think most people understand that archeology is generally relevant to the study of the Bible - but they have a limited understanding of what the relationship is. But if we take the Bible seriously – which we definitely do at Anchored by Truth - we all need to know a little bit about archeology. That’s because archeological explorations and finds have supplied an abundance of evidence that confirms that the history contained in the Bible is real history. That’s why we decided to do this series. Despite the fact that popular culture has tried to dismiss the long-standing relationship between the Bible and archeology the truth is that archeology as a whole has done much to provide evidence of the Bible’s trustworthiness. To help us continue to explore this topic, in the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books RD, throughout this series you have pointed out that despite the skepticism we often hear many scholars, including ones who aren’t Christian, have used the Bible as a source document when planning or conducting archeological explorations. In fact, the Bible’s history has regularly been shown to be accurate even when doubted, right?
RD: Right. And during our most recent episodes of Anchored by Truth we have been covering specific examples of times secular history doubted what the Bible reported but archeology proved that the Bible’s report was right. Today we are going to continue in that same vein and provide another example of an archeological find that shows that the Bible not only gets the “big things” right but is also accurate in details that most people wouldn’t even consider are significant.
VK: Well, perhaps we should start by briefly discussing one of the specific criticisms that is frequently hurled at the Bible – the idea that many of the books of the Bible weren’t actually written by the person whose name is associated with that particular book. This would include books like Daniel and Jeremiah but it extends to the first five books of the Bible which are historically attributed to Moses.
RD: One of lines of evidence that the Bible is the inspired word of God is that the Bible contains a large body of fulfilled prophecy. We have provided a lot of examples of successful prophecies in many of our different series on Anchored by Truth. We have talked about the fact that the prophet Isaiah provided the name of the Persian king who would conquer the Babylonian Empire about 200 years before that happened in history.
VK: For anyone who wants to verify that prophecy for themselves they can go chapters 44 and 45 of the book of Isaiah. For example, Isaiah, chapter 45, verses 1 through 3 say, “This is what the LORD says to Cyrus, his anointed one, whose right hand he will empower. Before him, mighty kings will be paralyzed with fear. Their fortress gates will be opened, never to shut again. This is what the LORD says: “I will go before you, Cyrus, and level the mountains. I will smash down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. And I will give you treasures hidden in the darkness—secret riches. I will do this so you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, the one who calls you by name.”
RD: Yes. A simple internet search of the question “who conquered Babylon” will bring up the name “Cyrus” or, as he is often called, “Cyrus the Great.” Isaiah is the first of the so-called “Major Prophets” and prophesied from approximately the years 740 BC to about 700 BC. So, the latest his prophesy about a coming conquering king named Cyrus can be dated is 700 BC. But Babylon didn’t fall to Cyrus until 539 BC. So, Isaiah’s prophecy predates the fulfillment by 170 to 200 years.
VK: And since that we can’t successfully predict who will win the next election, Super Bowl, or World Series, a successful prophesy given 200 years before the event is pretty compelling evidence of supernatural inspiration and insight.
RD: Right. Another example of a successful prophesy given hundreds of years ahead of time is found in the book of Daniel, who is the last of the Major Prophets. In chapters 2, 7, and 8 of his book Daniel prophesied about a series of empires that would control what was, for the ancient Hebrews, the known world – essentially to us eastern Europe, north Africa, the Mideast, and western Asia. Daniel prophesied that a series of 4 empires would dominate that territory. We now know from history that those empires were the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Greeks, and the Romans. Rome conquered Palestine and Jerusalem around 63 BC but Daniel had given his prophecy around 540 BC – almost 500 years earlier.
VK: Again, none of us know what the price of gas will be next month much less next year. We don’t know what level the stock market will be at in a year and we can’t even be sure what the weather will be like two days from now. So, for a human, unaided by God, to successfully predict a major military and political event 500 years in the future is simply impossible. But what is impossible for people is possible for God. But it is possible only for God. That’s one of the big reasons we can be sure the Bible was inspired by God. God inspired His writers to record things hundreds of years before they would happen. And that then becomes strong evidence that while a human hand pushed a pen or stylus the information was coming straight from a divine Being.
RD: Yes. These are just two examples of the hundreds that could be cited to illustrate that the Bible writers were given supernatural inspiration by God Almighty. And this evidence is so compelling that the critics of the Bible must find a way to discount the evidence. The most common way they do that is to assert that the books weren’t written when they were. To discredit the prophecy the critics must turn the prophecy into history. So, the critics will claim that the book of Daniel was not written in the 6th century BC but rather the 1st or 2nd century BC. And they claim that while portions of the book of Isaiah were written in the 8th century BC they claim that other parts were written much later such as the 5th or even 4th century BC. By doing so, they claim that rather than the books containing successfully fulfilled prophesies all the books were doing was presenting historical events as prophecy.
VK: That calls to mind the medieval notion that it was possible to turn iron into gold. It was called alchemy. But, in this case, the critics want to turn the golden evidence of fulfilled prophecy into the common element of recent history – a sort of reverse alchemy. The critics can plainly see the implications of a book that contains prophecies given hundreds of years before the events prophesied. Human beings can’t do that. Only God could. So, to get rid of the evidence they turn the evidence into something else. Re-date the book and “poof” – prophesy becomes history.
RD: Yes. So, that’s one of the most common forms of criticism that’s hurled against the Bible. The books of the Bible weren’t written when claimed. It’s a pernicious form of criticism because the critic doesn’t deny the content of the book – just claims the book doesn’t mean what we thing because it’s been “misdated.”
VK: But one of the ways the Bible defends itself against such criticism is that it frequently contains language or details that wouldn’t have been used or known to a later writer. And that detail or language has now been confirmed by archeology. For instance, with respect to the false assertion that the book of Daniel was written in the 1st or 2nd century BC Biblical Scholar Dr. Gleason Archer in his Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties has written this: “… it seems that a second century date for the Hebrew chapters of Daniel is no longer tenable on linguistic grounds. In view of the markedly later development in the areas of syntax, word-order, morphology, vocabulary, spelling, and word-usage, there is absolutely no possibility of regarding Daniel as contemporary [with the sectarian documents][of the second century BC…] The complete absence of Greek loan-words apart from musical instruments … point unmistakably to a time of composition prior to the Alexandrian conquest.”
RD: What Dr. Archer is saying is that, just as today, language changes through time. We know longer use phrases like “Daddy-O” or “23 skidoo” …
VK: “23 skidoo” … really?
RD: Really. “23 skidoo” was an American slang phrase that appeared early in the 20th century. It was often used to mean “I’m leaving quickly.” According to the Wikipedia entry “23 skidoo” was actually the conjoining of two earlier expressions, “‘twenty-three’ (1899) and ‘skidoo’ (1901), both of which, independently and separately, referred to leaving, being kicked out, or the end of something.” The point is that language changes through time. “23 skidoo” is slang from over 100 years ago. If someone sees it in a document we can have high confidence about roughly when that document might have been prepared. The same thing is true about ancient languages. They changed through time. In the case of the language used in the book of Daniel it does not resemble the language used by the Jews in the 1st or 2nd century BC. And we can have high confidence about that in large measure because of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
VK: The point is that the language of the book of Daniel defeats the critics’ attempts to date it at a time when its prophecy would have become history. And today we are going to cite an example where a name in the text of the book of Jeremiah defeats the critics’ attempt to turn its successful prophecies into history. Remember, our opening scripture came from the book of Jeremiah.
RD: Exactly. So, let’s set the stage so we know what is going on – both in scripture and in history.
VK: Jeremiah is the 2nd of the Major Prophets. Jeremiah wrote during a period starting in 626 BC and lasting until about 586 BC. He is sometimes called the “weeping prophet” because he had the sad task of warning the people in Judah and Jerusalem that they were going to be destroyed by the Babylonians because of their idolatry. Jeremiah did not want to see them destroyed but he faithfully reported that because the people would not give up their idolatry they were going to suffer. He made a number of famous prophecies. He not only prophesied that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed but he also prophesied that the captivity of the exiled Jews was going to last 70 years.
RD: And he was proven accurate on both counts. Nebuchadnezzar, the most famous of the Babylonians kings, destroyed Jerusalem in 587 BC and sent most of the people into exile around Babylon. Only the poorest were permitted to remain in their homeland. Jeremiah was also right about how long the Jews would remain in exile. The first time Nebuchadnezzar attacked Jerusalem was 597 BC but before that Jerusalem had become a vassal state of Babylon. Many scholars date the start of the 70 years to 605 BC when Judah first swore allegiance to Babylon. Cyrus defeated Babylon in 539 BC but it took a little while before the exiled Jews were able to begin their return to their homeland. So, all told, the exile of the Jews in Babylon lasted about 70 years.
VK: But a skeptic might say that these two prophecies were not really prophetic. Nebuchadnezzar began his control of Judah during Jeremiah’s lifetime and so the prophecy that Nebuchadnezzar would one day destroy Jerusalem might have just been an educated guess. Or a skeptic might assert that the writer of Jeremiah just wrote about the destruction of Jerusalem after it happened. While the book of Jeremiah does contain information about when various prophecies were given it’s not impossible that the writer might have deliberately misdated the material to appear prophetic even if it were not.
RD: But, that would still leave a successful prophecy about the length of the period of exile. Chronologically, the book of Jeremiah ends right after the final destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BC. But Cyrus would not defeat Babylon for almost another 50 years. So, even if the critic asserts that the writer of Jeremiah was writing history when it came to the fall of Jerusalem the writer would have no way of knowing if or when that period of Babylonian captivity would end.
VK: So, to get around that possibility the critic would say that a later editor of the book of Jeremiah just added that detail after the period of the exile ended. That, in fact, is a very common line of criticism with respect to many of the books in the Old Testament. Many critics assert that many books of the Old Testament, including the first 5 books, were not written until after the period of the Babylonian captivity and the Jews had returned to their homeland – sometime in the late 6th century BC or early to mid 5th century. The assertion is that the returned Jews were trying to create a sort of noble history for themselves because the whole nation was in such desperate condition. The critics assert that the returned Jews either just outright fabricated books such as Genesis at that time - or they took earlier works and just added a bunch of details to give them the appearance of supernatural inspiration. And one way they supposedly did that was to put prophecies in the books that were really historical events that had affected the Israelites. The idea is that by doing so the national or religious authorities could fool their population into believing their holy books contained prophecies that had been fulfilled. The general idea is that these pious fictions would have inspired the Jews, who were then in a pretty sad state at that time.
RD: And that’s where today’s opening scripture becomes relevant. Our opening scripture includes the names of two Babylonian officials who were present at the time the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem. “Nergal-Sharezer of Samgar, Nebo-Sarsekim.” Nebo-Sarsekim is described as being “a chief officer.”
VK: Ok. Let’s focus on what’s going on within the book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah has been warning the people – probably for decades at this time – that if they don’t give up their idolatry they are going to be punished by being defeated militarily. And Jeremiah even tells them that their defeat will come at the hands of the Babylonians. But the people don’t listen and the defeat comes about. So, Jeremiah is now describing what was happening at the time that the Babylonians broke through the walls of Jerusalem.
RD: Right. Now what is interesting, amazing even, about this passage from Jeremiah is that he has gone to the trouble of recording the names of Babylonian officials who weren’t the king or part of the royal family. Now it would not be unusual for a careful and honest historian to record the names of important people who present at a significant event – like the breaching of the walls of your capital city. But why would someone who was making up or editing a book to somehow give it the air of supernatural inspiration do that?
VK: I suppose someone would say that adding the names of officials would increase the level of credibility to the account they were concocting. Good fiction writers always want to make their fiction believable.
RD: Someone – a critic – trying to cast doubt on the book might say that. But let’s explore that idea for a second. Let’s suppose that a religious authority in Israel is trying to somehow add weight to a book that they are creating. So, to add that weight they start throwing in a bunch of details about a dramatic event. It makes little sense that one of the details they would throw in would be the names of a couple of people from the invading army who sat down in a city gate just after the invaders had breached the wall. But even if they did decide to throw in a couple of names how would a writer writing decades after the actual event know which names to toss in? Remember the idea we’re examining is whether it is reasonable to suppose that the book of Jeremiah was written decades after the events that it records – because that’s what it would take for a later writer to have made it seem like Jeremiah knew the length of the Babylonian captivity.
VK: Or is just more reasonable to conclude that the book of Jeremiah was written by an eyewitness of the events recorded in the book. An eyewitness could easily know the names of high ranking officials who took part in the capture of the capital city. But details get lost in as time passes by. So, the likelihood that a later religious figure would know which lesser officials happened to be present when Jerusalem fell starts to strain credulity. Which possibility is more likely really comes down to whether the names recorded in Jeremiah are accurate.
RD: And thanks to archeology we now have solid evidence that the writer of Jeremiah got the names right. A clay tablet that is in the British Museum contains a receipt issued by a high official of Nebuchadnezzar, who was the King of Babylon that conquered Jerusalem. This tablet is a receipt is for gold donated to a temple in Babylon. The full translation reads: “‘(Regarding) 1.5 minas (0.75 kg) of gold, the property of Nabu-sharrussu-ukin, the chief eunuch, which he sent via Arad-Banitu the eunuch to [the temple] Esangila: Arad-Banitu has delivered [it] to Esangila. In the presence of Bel-usat, son of Alpaya, the royal bodyguard, [and of] Nadin, son of Marduk-zer-ibni. Month XI, day 18, year 10 [of] Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.” The tablet is dated to the 10th year of Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon (595 BC) or 8 years before the siege of Jerusalem. Many Biblical scholars have now realized that the name mentioned in the tablet is the same name as contained in Jeremiah, chapter 39.
VK: And that’s pretty remarkable. As we’ve said frequently during this series one test for whether a historical record is accurate is whether the record gets the names and titles right. And it is one thing for a writer to get the big names right. But it is even better when the writer gets the names of lesser officials right. Everyone remembers Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great. But how many people would know who was on their staff. How many would remember the people who were, in essence, just supporting actors.
RD: Yet, over and over again, we find that from the Bible that the Bible writers get even the small details right. In this case the Bible describes Nebo-Sarsekim as being a “chief officer” of the king of Babylon. The tablet from the British museum tells us that Nebo-Sarsekim was the “chief eunuch.” That title doesn’t mean anything in our society but in that day the chief eunuch would have been a very important Babylonian official. It would take too much time today to describe why that was true but we can get some idea of his importance and wealth by noting that the tablet indicates he gave gold to the temple that was worth over $50,000 today.
VK: And how many people today can afford to give away $50,000? It’s little wonder that someone kept a receipt of the donation. And by the grace of God we now have that receipt as additional evidence that the book of Jeremiah wasn’t written hundreds of years or even decades after the events it records. An eyewitness of the events could record details accurately. A writer at a far distant time wouldn’t have reason to include the names of lesser officials. By that time the relevance and value of such people would have faded into the distant past.
RD: Right. The book of Jeremiah contains lessons that would have been important for the people of his day – and for us today. Jeremiah warned his people about the dangers of idolatry. An idol is anything we value more than God and lots of us have things that we value more than our relationship with God. Jeremiah was a genuine prophet of God and we can be sure of that because prophecies he passed along to his people came true. And today we’ve only mentioned a couple of those. There are a great many more that time precludes us from discussing in these brief episodes. At Anchored by Truth our purpose is to help people understand that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Archeological finds like the tablet we’ve talked about point to that fact. The history in the Bible is reliable and the Bible contains a large body of fulfilled prophecies. Human beings can write accurate history but only a supernatural God can provide knowledge to His people of events that won’t occur for decades or centuries.
VK: And that is what we are illustrating in this episode and in this series. Archeological discoveries have repeatedly supported the history contained in the Bible. And that accurate history tells us that the Biblical authors were eyewitnesses to most of the history they record. So, the times indicated by their place in history tells us their prophecies were given far before their fulfillment. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer that our children who are in school and many of them facing tests. Most of us have put such tests far behind us but it always appropriate for us to help the next generation as they walk the path behind us. It is also appropriate for us to ensure that just as we care about their formal education we also take care to pass along our faith in our Lord Christ Jesus.
---- PRAYER FOR TAKING A TEST (RANNI)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New International Version)
Jeremiah, Chapter 39, verses 1 through 3, New International Version

New archaeological find affirms Old Testament historicity (creation.com)

Episode 252 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 7 – Jericho Old & New
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the town and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it …
The men who had been spies went in and brought out Rahab, her father, mother, brothers, and all the other relatives who were with her.
Joshua, Chapter 6, verses 20 through 23, New Living Translation

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VK: Hello and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. This is our 7th episode in our series on archeology and the Bible. Throughout this series we have been talking about the large number of archeological finds that supply evidence that confirm that the history contained in the Bible is real history. It’s popular today, especially in academia and the media, to attempt to dismiss the long-standing relationship between the Bible and archeology. But when reviewed objectively the only fair conclusion is that archeology has been extremely supportive of the Bible’s trustworthiness. To help us continue to explore this topic, in the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books RD, thus far in this series we have reviewed a number of specific archeological finds that have confirmed details of the Bible. But you said that today you wanted to switch things up a bit. What do you have in mind?
RD: Well, thus far in this series we have mostly been talking about archeological finds and artifacts that came from places that today are in ruins. Some of the sites we have discussed were destroyed so thoroughly like Nineveh, the capital of the ancient Assyrian Empire, that they were lost to secular history or considered legendary. But today we are going to talk about a city that not only plays a prominent role in the Bible but also is still in existence today – Jericho. Jericho is one of the few cities that is mentioned early in the Old Testament and later in the New Testament. Most of the locations from that time in Bible history have turned into piles of rubble and most have disappeared beneath multiple layers of sand, rock, or dirt. But Jericho didn’t. It still exists today in the West Bank territory and according to recent estimates has about 20,000 occupants. But we must emphasize that while the city exists it is not on exactly the same spot as the Old Testament city mentioned in Joshua.
VK: Some scholars believe that Jericho may be the oldest continuously occupied city in the world. And while the secular dating for how long Jericho has been around doesn’t conform with a Biblical view, pretty much everybody agrees Jericho is thousands of years old. Jericho is well known to students of the Bible and even in popular culture because of the popular incident that is related in chapter 6 of the book of Joshua. We heard a part of the description of the incident in our opening scripture. Just to refresh everyone’s recollection though, the book of Joshua is set in history just as the Israelites are ending the 40 years of wandering in the desert. Moses has died but before he did he named Joshua as his successor to actually lead the Hebrews across the Jordan River and into the Promised Land to begin their occupation of it. While it’s not evident today, Jericho was a very imposing obstacle in Joshua’s day. Its defensive walls were famous and since it was located near one of the fords in the Jordan River it occupied a strategic location.
RD: Right. Both militarily and psychologically it was important for the Israelites to conquer Jericho if they were to have any hope of actually fulfilling the mandate they had received from God to take possession of the land of Canaan. It essentially confronted the Israelites just as soon as they had crossed the river. The big question for Joshua and the Hebrews was how in the world could they defeat it? Let’s remember that while the number of Hebrews that had come through the wilderness wanderings was sizeable – some scholars estimate as many as 2 million in total – they were not a well-equipped army. They were essentially a band of farmers, shepherds, and tradespeople who had little, if any, significant weapons. The only weapons the Bible mentions are personal weapons like swords and bows and arrows.
VK: During their 40 years of wandering through the wilderness the Israelites were a nomadic people. They pitched camp whenever the Lord told them to and they moved when the Lord told them to. They were always accompanied by their “flocks and herds.” Their shelters were tents. The largest structure they ever built was their temple which was itself, just a large tent. In short, they didn’t spend any time, or have the opportunity to build a real army or develop the kind of weapons an army would need to take on a walled and fortified city like Jericho. Swords and arrows aren’t much good against walls that were, according to archeological excavations, up to 6 feet thick and as much as 40 feet, or more, high. Armies that would tackle fortifications like that would have catapults, towers, and siege engines. The Hebrews didn’t have any of those things.
RD: Of course they did have God on their side. There’s an old saying that you never know that “You’ll never know Jesus is all you need until Jesus is all you have.”
VK: Amen to that.
RD: The point is that Jericho would have been an imposing obstacle to the Israelites who just entering the land God had told them to occupy. And, humanly, speaking they would have had no way to breach the walls. Fortunately, they didn’t have to. All the Hebrews had to do was obey God’s instructions and He said He would deliver the city into their hands. At this stage of their history the Israelites were still being obedient to God – which would change later on, sadly.
VK: But, as you said, at this time the Hebrews under Joshua were still obeying God. God told them to march around the city once for six days. Then He told them to march around the city seven times on the 7th day. After their final circuit God told them that when they shouted the walls of Jericho would “collapse” and they would be able to charge straight into the city. They did exactly as told and the Bible tells us that the walls fell down and the Hebrews were able to take the city. The only people who survived was Rahab, the harlot, and her family who were with her because she had sheltered the Hebrew spies. It’s a dramatic story that has been popularized in various songs, books, and movies. So, naturally the question occurs as to whether there is any archeological evidence that supports the Biblical account.
RD: And not surprisingly there is. The Old Testament city of Jericho is located at a site that is called Tell-el-Sultan today. Extensive excavations have been conducted at that site through the years. And we know from those excavations that the ruins that have been uncovered provide substantial confirmation for the Biblical account of the episode that is described in chapter 6 of the book of Joshua.
VK: Well then let’s go through some of the evidence that has been uncovered. For our listeners’ benefit we want you to know that there are a couple of very good articles on the Creation Ministries International website that deal with the archeological work that has been done at Jericho. But for this episode we have also used material from Dr. Gleason Archer’s book, The Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, and the Archeological Study Bible. The Archeological Study Bible is a particularly helpful book for any Bible student that wants to explore the connection between the Bible and archeology. There are literally hundreds of articles, comments, maps, and pictures that demonstrate that the Bible is a book firmly set in place and time. And the fact that such a book can be produced for the Bible sets the Bible apart from all other ancient or modern books that claim to have divine inspiration. So, where do you want to start in talking about the evidence from archeology that supports the Biblical account?
RD: Well, we can start with the fact that Jericho was strongly fortified. In fact excavations have shown that Jericho had two sets of walls.
The mound of Jericho was surrounded by a great earthen embankment, with a stone retaining wall at its base. The retaining wall was about 12–15 feet high. On top of the earthen embankment was a mudbrick wall that was six feet thick and over 20 feet high. That means the Israelites standing on the outside of this lower wall would have been staring up at a wall that was close to 40 feet high.
VK: In other words the attacking Hebrews would have been facing a wall that was close to 4 stories tall. That would have been both imposing and discouraging.
RD: Absolutely. And that was just the lower wall. At the top of the embankment was a similar mudbrick wall whose base was roughly 14 meters (46 feet) above the ground level outside the retaining wall. This is what loomed high above the Israelites as they marched around the city each day for seven days. Humanly speaking, it was impossible for the Israelites to penetrate the impregnable bastion of Jericho.
VK: Archeologists estimate that within the upper walled section was an area of approximately six acres. Based on an archaeologist’s rule of thumb of approximately 200 persons per acre, the population of the upper city would have been about 1,200. Archeologists estimate that the total area within the walls of Jericho including the lower walled portion was about 9 acres. We also now know, from excavations carried out by a German team that people were also living on the embankment between the upper and lower city walls. And it is reasonable to believe that as the Israelite army was approaching Jericho that Canaanites living in surrounding villages would have fled to Jericho for safety. Thus, it’s quite likely that there were several thousand people inside the walls when the Israelites came against the city.
RD: Right. So, one element of the Biblical story that is attested to by archeology is that Jericho was strongly fortified and could have held enough people to be militarily significant. A second element that the archeology has shown us is that it was small enough for the Israelite army to march around seven times in one day. The Israelites wouldn’t have marched around right next to the walls – that would have made them vulnerable to rocks or objects tossed off the walls. So, let’s assume they marched far enough away to have a reasonable margin of safety. The distance they marched in a single trip would have been in the range of 3,500 to 4,000 feet. There are 5,280 feet per mile so even if they marched around a 4,000 feet perimeter 7 times that’s a total distance of about 5 miles. Certainly for people who had been used to trekking through the desert for the last 40 years a 5 mile walk would not have worn them out. They would have had plenty of energy to attack the city with strength when the falls finally fell.
VK: The archeological excavations at Jericho have also revealed that the city’s free-standing inner and outer mudbrick walls collapsed outward. This means they fell down the slope and piled up at the base of the mound. This is consistent with how the Bible describes the walls’ collapse. The Legacy Standard Bible put it this way in Joshua, chapter 6, verse 5. “And it will be that when they make a long blast with the ram’s horn, and when you hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city will fall down beneath itself, and the people will go up every man straight ahead.” Once the walls collapsed, this allowed the invading Israelites to go straight up and into the city. This is consistent with what the Bible says in verse 20 of the same chapter.
RD: A third element of the archeological evidence that supports the Bible account is that a one-meter-thick layer of ash and debris, including jars of burnt wheat, was found in many sections of the city. Joshua, chapter 6, verse 24 says “Then [the Israelites] burned the whole city and everything in it …”
VK: And the fact that the jars were full of burnt wheat is consistent with the Bible’s report that the attack took place just after the harvest. Joshua, chapter 3, verse 15 says that the Hebrews crossed the Jordan River just before attacking Jericho in the harvest season. Moreover, the fact that there was grain in the charred jars is evidence that the siege of Jericho was a short one. According to the Bible’s description the siege lasted just 7 days. If it had been a long siege the people who had fled into the city would have eaten the grain in the jars. Also, the fact that the archeologists found grain in the jars was evidence that most of the Hebrews complied with the Lord’s instructions to not take plunder for themselves from the city. In Joshua, chapter 6, verses 18 and 19 Joshua had said to the Israelites: “keep away from the devoted things, so that you will not bring about your own destruction by taking any of them. Otherwise you will make the camp of Israel liable to destruction and bring trouble on it. All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the Lord and must go into his treasury.” Grain would have been a valuable commodity to an attacking army. An army certainly would have taken any food stores in the city with them under normal circumstances. The fact that the grain was left shows that whoever sacked the city and set fire to it is unusual but it is entirely consistent with the Bible’s account.
RD: And let’s mention one final piece of evidence of what was found at Jericho which is consistent with the Bible. The Bible explicitly says that the harlot Rahab’s house was built into the city wall. Joshua, chapter 2, verse 15 says, “So [Rahab] let [the Hebrew spies] down by a rope through the window, for the house she lived in was part of the city wall.” Well, as the archeologists were exploring the walls that had fallen they discovered a section of the lower city wall had not collapsed in the same way as the other parts of the walls. An article on the Creation Ministries website puts it this way: “The German excavation of 1907–1909 found that on the north a short stretch of the lower city wall did not fall as everywhere else. A portion of that mudbrick wall was still standing to a height of over …eight feet). What is more, there were houses built against the wall! It is quite possible that this is where Rahab’s house was. Since the city wall formed the back wall of the houses, the spies could have readily escaped. From this location on the north side of the city it was only a short distance to the hills of the Judean wilderness where the spies hid for three days.”
VK: So, the main point of all of this evidence that we are citing is that there is ample archeological evidence to support the reliability of the Bible’s account the Israelites captured the city of Jericho. But I think some people might ask the question, “why does it matter whether the story - as told in the Bible - is true?” Some people might say that even if the story was an embellished account what difference does it make? Or, does it even matter if the story is just an amazing legend that was used to inspire generations of Hebrew children.
RD: And the short answer to those questions is that it makes all the difference in the world whether the story is true. Let’s step back for a second and remember that the Bible is a single book about a single plan and that its content was selected by a single mind – the mind of God. God had a purpose for everything He chose to have included in the Bible. There is a lot of history in the Bible, such as the history found in Joshua, but none of that history is there by accident. God wanted and wants His people to learn things from the history He chose to include.
VK: So, what are some of the things God wants us to learn from the Hebrew encounter with Jericho?
RD: Well, remember where this encounter occurs in the larger plan of redemptive history. The Hebrews were coming out of a 40-year period of wandering in the desert after they had left captivity in Egypt. But the group that was entering the Promised Land was not the same group that had left Egypt. Except for Joshua and Caleb all of the Hebrews who had left Egypt had died in the desert because they had rebelled against the Lord in one way or another.
VK: Even Moses had died. God had not permitted Moses or his brother Aaron to enter the Promised Land. In Deuteronomy, chapter 32, verses 50 through 52 God said, “There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people. This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites … in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. Therefore, you will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel.”
RD: Right. So, the group of Israelites that was entering the Promised Land, except for Joshua and Caleb was not the same group that had seen the miracles that God had performed in Egypt as part of delivering the Hebrews from bondage. This group might be wondering “how can we be sure that God is going to help us displace the Canaanites and enable us to take possession of the land?” Well, certainly be helping them to overcome the first major obstacle they encountered after crossing the Jordan was a powerful signal that though almost all of their previous leaders had died their God was still very much alive and in command. So, the miraculous conquest of Jericho was a dramatic signal to the Hebrews that as long as they were obedient to Him God was going to assure that they obtained the inheritance He had promised.
VK: And the Hebrews experience at Jericho is still a valuable lesson for us. God had led the Hebrews to Jericho. They were in the center of His will as they were staring up at the walls. The fact that they were facing this huge obstacle as they were seeking to do His will wasn’t because they had done anything wrong – at least at that point. They were doing what God had commanded them to do. But that didn’t mean that they weren’t going to encounter obstacles and opposition. I think that’s a great lesson for us. Sometimes we are doing things that we feel led by God to do and just as soon as we start doing them we encounter opposition. That may make some people question whether God really wants them to do it. Obstacles in fulfillment of our purpose shouldn’t deter us or cause us to turn aside.
RD: Right. Even if we are doing exactly what God wants us to do we can and should expect to encounter opposition from the world, the flesh, and the devil. Overcoming opposition is a part of fulfilling God’s plans for our lives. And that is why it matters that the story of Joshua’s conquest is true. Humanly speaking Joshua and his soldiers may or may not have been able to ultimately breach Jericho’s walls. But they sure weren’t going to do it in a matter of days – more like months or maybe years. And in the meantime they would have had to worry about counterattacks from the surrounding Canaanite cities and tribes. It was vital for Joshua to keep the momentum going. But he couldn’t do that on his own. He needed God’s help. And because the story in Joshua chapter 6 is true then we can be confident he got the help he needed. And it gives us hope we can receive help from that same God when we need it.
VK: But if the story of Joshua’s conquest of Jericho is just a legend why would that give us any hope. We might be able to learn lessons from stories – Jesus used parable to teach - but if we want real hope we need examples, real examples, of when our God came to the aid of His people. That’s one thing we get from the story of Jericho. But we only get that if the story is real history.
RD: Right. The story of Joshua and Jericho tells us that we don’t have to be discouraged when we encounter obstacles in our lives of service to the Lord and others. The Lord knows of the obstacle long before we encounter it. And the story of Joshua and Jericho tells us that it doesn’t matter whether, from our viewpoint, the obstacle seems insurmountable. As Jesus said in Luke, chapter 18, verse 27, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” Joshua learned this lesson at the very start of the actual conquest of the land. This must have increased his confidence in what was coming next. And there was going to be plenty of continuing opposition as they moved forward. But right up front Joshua and the people – and we – learned that obedience to God produced delivery from the world. As you said, that’s a lesson we still need today – especially as we face a culture that is increasingly trying to build walls to keep the church and the gospel out of their walled cities and away from the things they treasure. We are not conquerors but we are more than conquerors when we don’t depend on our own strength but on the Lord’s.
VK: And that is why we all need to be fully persuaded that the Bible is true. And verifying for ourselves that the Bible’s history is accurate is one step in that process of persuasion. And knowing a little bit about archeology can help us with that process. Archeology may or may not interest us as a subject. But we must know enough to be able to intelligently rebut the world’s claim that the Bible is a book that gets a few things right but most things wrong. Our faith may or may not hang in the balance. But the faith of our children, families, and friends may. So, we must do our part to be able to defend their faith from the assaults that will inevitably come. Knowing a little bit about archeology can help with this greater goal. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our friends. Most of us may not be called to be missionaries in far-away lands but we are all called to be missionaries to the people in our families and communities.
---- PRAYER FOR FRIENDS (JUNE)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the New Living Translation)
Joshua, Chapter 6, verses 20 through 23, New Living Translation

The walls of Jericho (creation.com)
Jericho archaeology after Joshua (creation.com)

Episode 253 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 8 – Jericho Old & New 2
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
Jesus and his disciples went to Jericho. And as they were leaving, they were followed by a large crowd. A blind beggar by the name of Bartimaeus … was sitting beside the road. …The blind man [said], “Master, I want to see!” Jesus told him, “… Your eyes are healed because of your faith.” At once the man could see ...
The Gospel of Mark, Chapter 10, verses 46 through 52, Contemporary English Version

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VK: Hi. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. This is our 8th episode in a series that we are doing on archeology and the Bible. It’s popular today, especially in academia and the media, to attempt to portray the Bible as a book that has little connection to the real world. But when reviewed objectively the it is obvious that the Bible is a book that is firmly set in time and place and accurately reflects a large body of important history. And archeology has been extremely supportive of the Bible’s historical trustworthiness. That’s why we wanted to do this series. We want everyone, especially listeners to Anchored by Truth, to have a firm grasp on evidence by which they can be assured that the Bible is the inspired word of God. To help us continue to explore this topic, in the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books RD, thus far in this series we have reviewed a number of specific archeological finds that have confirmed details of the Bible. And in our last episode of Anchored by Truth we spent some time providing evidence that the story of the fall of Jericho told in the book of Joshua is true. Can you give us a brief reminder of some of the things we talked about?
RD: Sure. One element of the Biblical story that is attested to by archeology is that Jericho was strongly fortified and could have held enough people to be militarily significant. A second element is that it was small enough for the Israelite army to march around seven times in one day. A third element is that when the archeologists excavated at Jericho they found a one-meter-thick layer of ash and debris, including jars of burnt wheat, in many sections of the city. Joshua, chapter 6, verse 24 says “Then [the Israelites] burned the whole city and everything in it …” One final piece of evidence that is consistent with the Bible is that one section of the city wall was found to still be upright and that there were houses whose back walls were actually part of the city’s walls. The Bible explicitly says that the harlot Rahab’s house was built into the city wall. Joshua, chapter 2, verse 15 says, “So [Rahab] let [the Hebrew spies] down by a rope through the window, for the house she lived in was part of the city wall.” A German exploration team in 1907–1909 found that on the north a short stretch of the lower city wall did not fall as everywhere else and formed the back wall of a house.
VK: The main point of the evidence we cited is that there is ample archeological evidence to support the reliability of the Bible’s account the Israelites captured the city of Jericho exactly as the Bible describes. And then we talked briefly about, “why does it matter whether the story - as told in the Bible - is true?” Some people might very well say that whether the story is literally true or just an embellished account doesn’t make a difference.
RD: And, as we said last week, the answer to that question is that it makes all the difference in the world whether the story is true. The city of Jericho was the first major obstacle the Israelites encountered when they ended their period of wandering in the desert and were about to enter the Promised Land. That’s not unusual even in the lives of faithful believers. Even if we are doing exactly what God wants us to do we can and should expect to encounter opposition from the world, the flesh, and the devil. Overcoming opposition is a part of fulfilling God’s plans for our lives. And that is why it matters that the story of Joshua’s conquest is true. Humanly speaking Joshua and his soldiers may or may not have been able to ultimately breach Jericho’s walls. But they sure weren’t going to do it in a matter of days – more like months or maybe years. For the Hebrew conquest of Canaan to be successful it was vital for Joshua to keep the momentum going. But he couldn’t do that on his own. He needed God’s help. And he got it. And because Joshua really got the help he needed when he needed it that gives us hope we can receive help from that same God when we need it.
VK: But if the story of Joshua’s conquest of Jericho was just a legend or some kind of embellished story why would that give anyone hope. We might be able to learn lessons from stories – Jesus used parable to teach - but if we want real hope we need examples, real examples, of when our God came to the aid of His people. That’s one thing we get from the story of Jericho. But we only get that if the story is real history.
RD: Exactly. Militarily and psychologically it was important for the Israelites to conquer Jericho to fulfill the mandate they had received from God to take possession of the land of Canaan. And with God’s help they did conquer Jericho and proceeded to other cities in Canaan. And most Christians, and many non-believers, have a sort of basic awareness of this episode from the Bible. Well, the book that contains the account of the conquest of Jericho is Joshua which in most modern Bibles is the 6th book of the Bible.
VK: The book of Joshua immediately follows the five books that Moses wrote during the wilderness wanderings. Together these five books are often called the Pentateuch and they are sometimes referred to as the “Torah” or the “Law.” The book of Joshua is the first of the historical books which include Judges, Ruth, 1st and 2nd Samuel, 1st and 2nd Kings, 1st and 2nd Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther. So, the book of Joshua is featured early in the Old Testament.
RD: And while many, if not most, people are familiar with the story of the conquest of Jericho and the walls falling down, most people are probably not aware that the city of Jericho also appears in the New Testament - which, of course, means that Jericho was rebuilt after it was destroyed by Joshua. And the continuing story of Jericho is something we want to take a look at because it helps illustrate the unity of scripture.
VK: So, the first thing we note is that, even though Joshua led the expedition against Jericho, Joshua himself prophesied that the city would be rebuilt. The Contemporary English Version of Joshua, chapter 6, verse 26 puts his prophecy this way: “After Jericho was destroyed, Joshua warned the people, ‘Someday a man will rebuild Jericho, but the LORD will put a curse on him, and the man's oldest son will die when he starts to build the town wall. And by the time he finishes the wall and puts gates in it, all his children will be dead.’” This prophecy was fulfilled over 500 years later. Ahab was the king of northern kingdom of Israel from around 871 B.C. to about 852 B.C. During Ahab’s time Jericho was rebuilt. 1 Kings, chapter 16, verse 34 tells us that a man named Hiel rebuilt the city.
RD: That verse in the Contemporary English version says this. “While Ahab was king, a man from Bethel named Hiel rebuilt the town of Jericho. But while Hiel was laying the foundation for the town wall, his oldest son Abiram died. And while he was finishing the gates, his youngest son Segub died. This happened just as the LORD had told Joshua to say many years ago.” Now the Bible does not tell us why Hiel decided to rebuild Jericho but we can engage in a little sanctified speculation. Hiel was from Bethel and the location of Jericho was just a little to the east of Bethel. So, Hiel was very familiar with the area around Jericho and likely with the ruins. And he probably realized that the ruins contained a lot of potentially desirable building materials that he could salvage and repurpose.
VK: Plus, as you mentioned, it had been over 500 years since the original Jericho had been destroyed. Perhaps Hiel reasoned that over such a long period Joshua’s original curse had simply expired. Also, Bethel was one of the religious sites for the northern kingdom. Let’s remember that the original unified nation of Israel had by this time split into the northern and southern kingdoms. After the split the northern kingdom was called Israel and the southern kingdom was called Judah. Jerusalem was the religious center for the southern kingdom but the northern kingdom had established two religious centers – one in Bethel and one in a more northerly city, Dan. So, it’s possible Hiel simply felt that now that the kingdoms were split he wouldn’t be affected by a curse that had been given during a time before the split. Or perhaps he just didn’t believe in the validity of the curse because he lived in a time and a place when his people had set aside many of the religious practices that had been inaugurated by Moses during the Exodus.
RD: Any or all of those things are possible. As you noted Hiel was chronologically, culturally, and religiously a long ways away from the pronouncement of the curse. That’s how people reason. We tend to think that things from long ago won’t affect us. But that’s now how God acts. God had inspired Joshua to pronounce the curse to begin with. So, when Hiel rebuilt Jericho he suffered the penalty for his ignorance or his hubris and his children died. But the city of Jericho lived on and it was still in existence during Jesus’ lifetime. But there is one detail about Jericho’s reconstruction that we need to note. Even though Hiel rebuilt a town named Jericho he did not build it on exactly the same site as the original city.
VK: And that makes perfect sense. The original site of Jericho would have been a mess. There were ruins of structures scattered everywhere, the residue from walls that had fallen in, the ground would have been uneven and hard to navigate. The original site would have been a very difficult place on which to build a new set of walls and buildings. So, Hiel probably made a sensible decision to salvage what materials were useful but to build the new city a short distance away. He would have chosen a site that was relatively level, more construction friendly, but close enough where any salvaged materials did not have to be transported very far. And that’s the configuration that came down to New Testament times.
RD: And that configuration is an important element of understanding two passages from the New Testament. We heard one of those two passages in our opening scripture from the Gospel of Mark. The other passage that we want to compare is from the Gospel of Luke. It’s from Luke, chapter 18, verses 35 through 43.
VK: Let’s listen to that section – again from the Contemporary English Version.
When Jesus was coming close to Jericho, a blind man sat begging beside the road. The man heard the crowd walking by and asked what was happening. Some people told him that Jesus from Nazareth was passing by. So the blind man shouted, “Jesus, Son of David, have pity on me!” The people who were going along with Jesus told the man to be quiet. But he shouted even louder, “Son of David, have pity on me!” Jesus stopped and told some people to bring the blind man over to him. When the blind man was getting near, Jesus asked, “What do you want me to do for you?” “Lord, I want to see!” he answered. Jesus replied, “Look and you will see! Your eyes are healed because of your faith.” At once the man could see, and he went with Jesus and started thanking God.
RD: So, that passage from Luke tells us that Jesus encountered the blind beggar as he “was coming close to Jericho” – in other words, as he was approaching Jericho. Now Mark told us the name of the beggar – Bartimaeus – which just means son of Timaeus – but Luke didn’t bother mentioning the name. But let’s remember what Mark told us about the encounter. In Mark the opening of the passage says, “Jesus and his disciples went to Jericho. And as they were leaving, … A blind beggar by the name of Bartimaeus … was sitting beside the road.”
VK: So, the distinction that you want us to note is that Mark tells us that Jesus encountered the beggar as they were “leaving” Jericho, but Luke says the encounter occurred “When Jesus was coming close to Jericho.” – in other words as Jesus was approaching Jericho. So, that does seem to be a bit of a problem. Luke says Jesus encountered the beggar on the way into Jericho, but Mark tells us it was he was leaving Jericho. That does seem to be a bit of a contradiction.
RD: Yes, it does. But the key word you used is “seems.” And that’s where we need to go back to Hiel’s ill-fated decision to rebuild Jericho. Hiel rebuilt the city but, in all probability, he did not use exactly the same site for the reasons we have discussed. Plus Hiel’s reconstruction of Jericho was over 800 years before Jesus was born. And during those intervening 800 years there were a lot of invaders who had passed through Palestine including the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, and the Romans. It’s entirely possible that some, or all, of the town Hiel rebuilt had been destroyed and rebuilt yet again. We do know that around Jesus’ time the heart of New Testament Jericho was the winter palace complex built by Herod the Great. New Testament Jericho was about 2 miles southwest of Old Testament Jericho. So, it is possible that Mark and Luke could be referring to an encounter that took place between the two sites. Mark was referring to Jesus leaving the vicinity of the Old Testament site and Luke was referring to Jesus approaching the New Testament site.
VK: But it is also possible that Jesus had encountered a blind man on the way into Jericho who had tried, but failed, to get Jesus’ attention. The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 20, verse 29 has this to say about Jesus’ encounter with blind beggars near Jericho. “Jesus was followed by a large crowd as he and his disciples were leaving Jericho. Two blind men were sitting beside the road. And when they heard that Jesus was coming their way, they shouted, ‘Lord and Son of David, have pity on us!’” Matthew goes on to say that Jesus did restore sight to both men although Matthew does not provide any names. Only Mark mentions a specific name.
RD: Agreed. That is also a possibility. Some scholars believe that the reason Mark mentions a specific name of one of the men who was healed is that Bartimaeus was the more vocal and forceful of the two. And if Bartimaeus had initially tried to get Jesus’ attention as Jesus was approaching Jericho and then waited around to make another attempt, knowing that eventually Jesus would leave the city, that would also mean Bartimaeus had particularly strong faith. So, one reasonable explanation for how these 3 passages in Matthew, Mark, and Luke can be reconciled is this. Bartimaeus had heard that Jesus was travelling in the vicinity.
VK: And that was certainly possible. As even these accounts note Jesus was being accompanied by a large crowd. And people in Jericho and in that region knew that Jesus was going to be in Jericho at about that time. Let’s listen to the Gospel of Luke, chapter 19, verses 1 through 4. “Jesus was going through Jericho, where a man named Zacchaeus lived. He was in charge of collecting taxes and was very rich. Jesus was heading his way, and Zacchaeus wanted to see what he was like. But Zacchaeus was a short man and could not see over the crowd. So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree.” So, we know news about Jesus being in and around Jericho had circulated widely enough for a large crowd to gather. The crowd was so large that the chief tax collector of the region – who would have been a very important man in that time – wasn’t even able to get a glimpse of Jesus. It’s probable that, as we say, “the crowd was lining the streets.” To be able to see Jesus Zacchaeus was willing to completely put aside his dignity and climb a tree.
RD: Right. So, a lot of people had heard about Jesus. His fame had spread. News travels fast in a place where villages are close and a person as famous as Jesus is in the area. Bartimaeus had probably heard that Jesus had performed miraculous healings. Most people in Israel at that time had heard that. As we’ve said, it appears that, even though his blindness had reduced him to begging, Bartimaeus still had very strong faith. So, Bartimaeus positions himself on the route into Jericho. Also, as we’ve said Jericho was an important place at that time – so important Herod the Great had built his winter palace there.
VK: The palace complex was so large that it totaled over 35 acres. It had been built on the foundations of earlier royal palaces. The palace complex of Herod contained luxurious gardens, theaters, and athletic facilities as well as palaces and villas. That’s the kind of place that everyone knows about. There are going to be lots of people around who provide goods and services to the palace. That’s probably a big reason Zacchaeus lived in Jericho. He was the chief tax collector. He would have had his own mansion. And of course where there are big houses and rich people there will be a lot of trades people, merchants, and suppliers who all want their piece of the high end business. It would also have been a common place for beggars to gather. Beggars want to be where people with money are coming and going and that would have been Jericho in Jesus day.
RD: Agreed. So, Bartimaeus either lives near Jericho or travels there knowing that Jesus is going to be in that vicinity. When Jesus is approaching Jericho Bartimaeus hears the commotion and starts calling out to Jesus to be healed. It’s possible that Jesus healed Bartimaeus at that time but it’s more likely the large crowd kept a blind man from getting Jesus attention on his first attempt. But, with his strong faith Bartimaeus knew Jesus would leave the city at some point. So, he decides to try again. While Jesus and the crowd are inside the city another blind beggar joins him and they wait together. Nothing would be more natural. It’s likely part of the crowd, maybe most of the crowd stayed in Jericho, either eating or spending the night. So, when Jesus came out Bartimaeus’ faith was rewarded because now he got Jesus’ attention and the healing he desired.
VK: And so did the other beggar who joined him in the waiting. That provides us a good example of why it makes sense to be around people with strong faith. God pays attention to people with strong faith. So, if have faith that is still maturing or developing it’s a good idea to associate with people who are farther down the faith journey. In this instance it meant a man got his sight restored. He might otherwise have remained blind his entire life.
RD: That’s a very cogent observation.
VK: Thank you. But there’s a larger point we want to make in going into the details of these three passages. As with the account we heard from the book of Joshua when the walls fell, God miraculously intervened when people of faith had a dire need. But neither the story from Joshua or the reports of blind men being healed in the gospels are of any value to anyone today unless they are real history – unless those were real people, at real places, with real needs.
RD: Right. And because of archeological finds we can be confident that that’s exactly what the Bible is reporting – real history. Jericho is still in existence today. It’s a real city with real residents. And it’s in about the same location as it was when Joshua encountered its massive walls. It was destroyed but it was rebuilt and as we’ve been discussing it played an important part in the New Testament.
VK: And because we know that Jericho is real we have a great starting point for assembling the evidence that show that the miracles performed there were just as real as the city.
RD: Right. The story of Joshua and Jericho tells us that we don’t have to be discouraged when we encounter obstacles in our lives of service to the Lord and others. The Lord knows of the obstacle long before we encounter it. And the story of Bartimaeus and his fellow blind beggar tells us God provides help to individuals as well as to large groups of people. In many ways Jericho is a great illustration of how the story of redemption unfolded in time. In Joshua’s day Jericho was an obstacle to be overcome. But when Jesus arrived it became a site of renewal and reformation. Zacchaeus renounced his greed and theft after encountering Jesus. Zacchaeus received spiritual healing which he desperately needed.
VK: As do we all.
RD: And Bartimaeus and his companion received physical healing. But as Jesus told Bartimaeus he was healed because of his faith. Before Jesus had dinner with him Zacchaeus had curiosity about Jesus but that curiosity was enough to lead him to true faith. Bartimaeus had real faith. That’s what kept him in place as he had to wait for God’s timing to provide his sight. Jericho is a place from which we can learn deep spiritual truths – but it wouldn’t be of any value if the accounts we hear about from the Bible weren’t true. Fortunately, for us they are.
VK: And that is why we all need to be fully persuaded that the Bible is true. Verifying for ourselves that the Bible’s history is accurate is one step in that process of developing deep and abiding faith. And knowing a little bit about archeology can help us with that process. We have said this throughout our series. Archeology may or may not interest us as a subject. But we must know enough to be able to intelligently respond to the world’s resistance. Knowing a little bit about archeology can help with this greater goal. It’s just a little bit silly to believe that God will reward people whose faith wavers constantly. The book of James tells us He won’t. And we don’t have to surrender to a wavering faith. God has given us ample evidence that His word is true. And He is more than willing to help us live productive, joyful lives if we will just acknowledge that simple fact. This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. There are many places around the world where Christians are persecuted just for acknowledging and proclaiming their belief in the God of the Bible. Let’s remember them in prayer today.
---- PRAYER FOR PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)
The Gospel of Mark, Chapter 10, verses 46 through 52, Contemporary English Version

Episode 254 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 9 – As Old As the Bible
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
The LORD possessed me [wisdom] at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
Proverbs, Chapter 8, verses 22 and 23, English Standard Version

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VK: Greetings. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. This is our 9th episode in a series that we are doing on archeology and the Bible. We’re 9 episodes into this brief overview of just a few of the thousands of archeological discoveries that support the accuracy of the Bible’s text. So often today we hear critics attempt to label the Bible as a book that has little connection to the real world. But when reviewed objectively it is obvious that the Bible is a book that is firmly set in time and place. And as a book set in time and place it is demonstrable that the human history that the Bible chooses to report is accurate. And archeology is very supportive of the Bible’s historical trustworthiness. That’s why we wanted to do this series. To help us continue to explore this topic, in the studio today we have RD Fierro. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, today you said you wanted to begin to wrap up the series. So, what do you want listeners to begin to think about as we think about the series as a whole?
RD: Well, before we begin our summary I’d also like to greet everyone and welcome them to Anchored by Truth. As we have stressed throughout this series archeology is the study of the past. And the vast majority of archeological interest pertains to times and dates that occurred long before anyone currently living was alive. This means that anyone attempting to glean information about the past from archeological finds and artifacts is always looking at evidence that is available in the present and interpreting it. This is going to be true whether the person making the interpretation is a Christian or non-Christian. This means that it is likely and reasonable for similarly qualified experts to disagree on what a particular find means or tells us. In other words, we cannot obtain the same degree of certainty about past events from archeological science that we can from branches of operational science where the replication of results is possible. This certainly doesn’t mean that rigor and discipline aren’t possible in archeology. They are. And it doesn’t mean that we can’t rule certain possible explanations in or out based on the application of evidence and reason. But it does mean that alternative explanations are possible in many situations and we must therefore be prepared to sort among those explanations.
VK: What you’re saying is that as Christians we must always be aware that – no matter how convincing a Biblical explanation may be for a find, artifact, or site – that we must be aware that other explanations for that same evidence are possible. And we must be prepared to deal with those alternative non-Biblical explanations because the world is going to consider those explanations. Because if we can’t intelligently discuss why the Christian explanation is at least as reasonable as the non-Christian alternative we will be far less effective in our witness for Christ in the public arena. In other words, we have to know what “the other side” believes and we must be prepared to engage their arguments – kindly, compassionately, and sensibly – but firmly.
RD: Right. The old saying is that “there are two sides to every story.” But, while the saying has some truth to it that does not mean that each side is equally credible or reasonable. So, one of the things we need to talk about as we wrap up our series is to give a couple of examples where there are competing explanations for archeological sites that are the subject of Biblical accounts.
VK: Where do you want to start?
RD: Well, we spent the last couple of episodes of Anchored by Truth talking about the city of Jericho especially about God’s miraculous intervention in the Hebrews’ conquest of it at the end of their wilderness wanderings.
VK: This is the well-known story found in the book of Joshua, chapter 6. The Hebrews encountered Jericho just after crossing the Jordan River into the Promised Land. Militarily the Hebrews needed to conquer Jericho but it was a walled and heavily fortified town. And the Hebrews did not have the kind of siege equipment necessary to breach those kind of walls – at least not quickly. But, fortunately they didn’t have to. As God directed, they marched around the walls once a day for 6 days. Then, on the 7th day they marched around the walls 7 times, shouted, and the walls fell down. And, while we won’t go over the evidence that supports that account again – because we covered it in our two previous episodes – we will note that there is substantial archeological evidence that supports the Biblical account.
RD: Yes. There’s an abundance of archeological evidence that Jericho was located where the Bible says it was, at one time had large and imposing walls, and that the walls did in fact “fall down flat” as the English Standard Version puts it. Several excavators have determined that most of the walls collapsed flat likely due to an earthquake. But even though these facts are well known one topic that is hotly debated is when the walls fell down. There are various dating options for when the Exodus occurred and therefore when Jericho fell to Joshua. We don’t have time to go into all the options but there are two that often talked about – to so-called late date for the exodus and the early date for the exodus.
VK: So, the most commonly accepted date for the exodus in scholarly circles is the late date. That’s the dating theory that was used in Cecil B. Demille’s famous movie, The Ten Commandments, starring Charlton Heston as Moses. What time period is in view for the late date?
RD: Around 1290 BC. This would be referred to as early in the 13th century BC.
VK: And what time period is in view for the early date?
RD: Around 1445 or 1446 BC – about a hundred years earlier. This is the date that is arrived at by calculating the time periods that are referenced in the Bible in verses such as 1 Kings, chapter 6, verse 1.
VK: That verse in the English Standard Version reads: “In the four hundred and eightieth year after the people of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the … the second month, [Solomon] began to build the house of the LORD.”
RD: Yes. We know that Solomon’s reign as king of Israel began in 970 BC. That means his 4th year would have been 966 BC. That means that 480 years earlier would have been 1446 BC. But let’s remember that the Hebrew calendar is not the same as the Gregorian calendar that we use today. So, they didn’t use a January to December year. Also, in the Bible some numbers may have been rounded off. So, allowing for those factors orthodox, conservative Christian scholars have usually placed the date for the start of the exodus between 1447 BC and 1442 BC. It’s common to refer to Joshua’s conquest of Jericho as taking place late in the 15th century BC.
VK: The 15th century BC began in the year 1500 BC and ended in the year 1401 BC.
RD: Right. So, while there may be agreement on the fact that at some time around in the distant past the walls of Jericho did collapse as the Bible describes, there is a very clear division of opinion on exactly when the walls fell down.
VK: So, a Bible critic may acknowledge that there is archeological evidence that is consistent with major portions of chapter 6 of the book of Joshua but then immediately turn around and say the Bible still isn’t trustworthy because it got dates wrong. And as we started out saying, all any present day investigator can do is look at the available evidence and then interpret what that says about things like ancient dates. It’s not as though anybody 3,300 or 3,400 years ago chiseled dates into the sides of buildings to make it easier to assign precise dates.
RD: No, they didn’t. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t have some tools that can help us resolve our dating dilemma. And while we don’t have time to discuss all the ways dating is accomplished for archeological sites let’s just mention a couple. First, we can look to see what information can be gleaned from artifacts that are found at a site. Often, even if there aren’t written records that contain helpful references there may be jewelry, coins, or other decorative items that provide clues as to when that item was being used. This is particularly true with pottery pieces or even shards. It has been common throughout human history to decorate items even ones used for practical purposes like jars or lamps. And, just as today, decorative styles come and go. And since pottery is a lot more durable that items made out of cloth or paper pottery is often present at a site even hundreds or thousands of years after it was in use. In the case of excavations at the city of Jericho over 100,000 pottery fragments have been unearthed.
VK: So, what do the pottery fragments found at Jericho tell us?
RD: The pottery fragments favor the early date theory. This is because there is almost no pottery fragments at Jericho that are what would be labeled Mycenaean. As we mentioned in other episodes of Anchored by Truth Mycenae is another name for the region we think of as Greece. The Mycenaeans were a sea faring people and traveled widely including to the eastern coast of the Mediterranean which is where Israel is. As a consequence their pottery is found all over the Mediterranean coastal lands. And it began to appear in Palestine from about 1400 BC onward. Therefore, if the conquest of Jericho had been around 1290 BC as the late date theory posits then there should have been plenty of Mycenaean pottery fragments present. But there aren’t. The early date theory explains this absence easily. The Hebrews conquered Jericho before Mycenaean pottery became commonplace in Palestine. By 1290 Mycenaean pottery would had been circulating in Palestine for over 100 years. So, its absence at Jericho is hard to reconcile with the late date theory.
VK: How about other artifacts found at Jericho? What do they tell us about whether the late date theory or the early date theory is most likely to be correct?
RD: There are other archeological findings that point strongly to the early date. For instance, Palestine in the 15th century BC was connected to Egypt. Remember that at this time Egypt was the dominant power in that region. The Egyptians had mines and other economic interests in Palestine. Trade between the two regions was extensive. One common item that circulated in those days was scarabs.
VK: According to the Wikipedia entry “Scarabs are beetle-shaped amulets and impression seals which were widely popular throughout ancient Egypt. They still survive in large numbers today. Through their inscriptions and typology, they prove to be an important source of information for archaeologists and historians of the ancient world, and represent a significant body of ancient Egyptian art.” In other words, scarabs were like modern jewelry pieces. They were valuable and therefore were not thrown away or destroyed. They are frequently found in graves with their owners. Like some modern jewelry items they often contained images of royalty. Think about things like commemorative lockets made for the various milestones of Queen Elizabeth’s long reign. So, as the Wikipedia quote states, by looking at the images contained on scarabs we can get an idea about when they were produced and in circulation. What do the scarabs found at Jericho tell us?
RD: One of the best known archeologists who did extensive excavations at Jericho is John Garstang. After years after his excavations of a cemetery at Jericho not a single scarab was found that could be dated later than the reign of Pharaoh Amenhotep III who reigned from 1412 BC to 1376 BC.
VK: We probably should remind our listeners that in the time before the birth of Jesus the years are frequently labeled “BC” which simply means “before Christ.” Since these yearly designations get smaller as you approach the birth of Jesus the larger numbers are actually farther back in time. This is the opposite of how we assign annual dates today where it’s the smaller numbers that are older. So, for the years before Christ 1412 BC is older than 1376 BC. It can be easy to get confused.
RD: That’s a good note. So, Pharaoh Amenhotep III began his reign in 1412 BC and it lasted for 36 years. That’s plenty of time in which his cartouche would have put on decorative items.
VK: A cartouche is just a common graphic symbol. It’s an oval with a line at one end and it indicates that the name that is found within the oval is a royal name.
RD: Right. So, the absence of any scarabs with the cartouches of any pharaohs later than Amenhotep III means that later pharaohs weren’t known or represented at that site. That would be very strange if the late date theory was correct. The late date theory says that the pharaoh at the time of the exodus was Ramses II and there were a lot of pharaohs between Amenhotep III and Ramses II. This is a strong indicator that the early date theory about the date of the exodus and the destruction of Jericho by Joshua is correct.
VK: So, the really big point that we want to make by this discussion is that there may be competing explanations about how to correctly date events from the past. And even though no one living was present then we can look at the evidence available in the present and make reasoned determinations about which explanation is most likely to be true. And one way to do that is look at finds and artifacts and see what they tell us about what was going on in the world at that time. Who was in power? What trade was occurring? What building techniques were available and in use? Are there any written records from the period? Information can be gleaned from any sources. And, of course, some people will say that scientific measurements such radiocarbon dating can be helpful. Well, how about radiocarbon dating? Isn’t it frequently used to assign dates to ancient sites and artifacts?
RD: It is, but there are a lot of problems with radiocarbon dating which are well known in the scientific community. Radiocarbon dating depends on determining the ratio present in a specimen between carbon-14, which is radioactive, and carbon-12 which is not. We don’t have time today to go into all of the details of how carbon-14 is formed but here are a couple of big points. Radiocarbon dating can only be used on organic residue such as wooden artifacts because it must be absorbed by a living entity to be present at all. Next, radiocarbon dating depends on certain baseline assumptions which are unprovable. Third, the rate of formation of carbon-14 is affected by the strength of the earth’s magnetic shield which is known to decline through time. As such, the farther back in time we go – especially as we get closer to the flood of Noah – the more adjustments are necessary to compensate for the stronger magnetic shield. The net result of these issues – and there are others – is that, as you said, radiocarbon dates are assigned not measured. Radiocarbon dating can be a useful tool for certain things like determining relative dates but it has limitations in assigning absolute dates.
VK: In other words we simply don’t possess all of the information that would be necessary to precisely calculate a date by measuring the ratio of one substance and compare it to another. We can never be sure what the starting ratio was unless somebody had been there who reported it – which is never going to happen with archeology. We can never be sure about whether assumed formation rates are accurate or whether contamination occurred at some point. Dates assigned by measuring ratios of various elements often differ by tens of thousands or even millions of years. In such cases the scientists will often dismiss dates that don’t conform to their expectations but this just amounts to selecting data that reinforces an original hypothesis or bias.
RD: Right. Radiocarbon dating can be helpful for certain purposes but it is sometimes offered as if it settles all dating questions of ancient finds. It doesn’t and can’t. It rests on unprovable assumptions. This doesn’t mean it must be dismissed. It means we should bear its limitations in mind when it is used to offer evidence. The point that we want to drive home today is Christians must be prepared to hear explanations for archeological finds that the world will tell us “disprove the Bible.” But we need not accept such claims on face value. Certainly one of the best known explorers who did excavation at Jericho was an archeologist named Kathleen Kenyon. She disagreed with Garstang’s findings about the correct dating of the ruins at Tell-el-Sultan which is normally agreed to be the site of ancient Jericho. One reason she disagreed with Garstang was that she said the pottery shards she found in the collapsed wall that is believed to belong to the Joshua conquest were not from the mid-15th century BC.
VK: In ancient times, and even today, when builders are building walls they will throw scraps of unusable building material as part of fill. The builder knows the fill won’t be seen. So, it doesn’t matter whether its broken concrete, metal scraps, or old pieces of pottery. That’s a common building practice today and it was in ancient times. So, we can derive some dating information about when a structure was built if we find scraps that have some identifying information. Someone who tore down a fireplace and found a coin that had fallen into the cement would know the latest date the fireplace was built. But it seems to mean that Kenyon’s conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow her observation. There are houses in America that date from the Revolutionary War period that are still standing today 250 years later than they were built. If one of those houses fell over today it’s walls are still going to be composed of building material from 1776. The fact that the walls fell in the 21st century doesn’t change that the fallen material was from 250 years ago.
RD: That’s a very good observation. And it illustrates that we have to think carefully through the conclusions that are drawn from evidence. The evidence may be consistent with multiple and varying conclusions. Then we will have to look at other evidence to see if we can determine which of those conclusions is most accurate.
VK: And you say we need to be particularly vigilant when we examine conclusions about the dating of ancient ruins or artifacts.
RD: Right. Here’s a simple example. If you do an internet search on the oldest buildings in the world you will find that are a few buildings dated by secular science to be several thousand years older than the date the Bible tells us the great flood occurred. Often the reason the ruins are dated older is by using radiocarbon dating. But as we just discussed radiocarbon dating has real problems for assigning absolute (not relative) dates. So, if we step back from the radiocarbon dates we find that it is at least as likely, if not more likely, that all of the ruins that are assigned these pre-flood dates were actually built after the flood.
VK: In other words the question that occurs is whether the evidence from these sites is just as consistent with being built after the flood as before.
RD: Yes. So, let’s think about this for a second. Some of these sites display a remarkable degree of mathematical precision in their layout and construction. Yet, conventional science says that the people at that time were all hunter-gatherers. Why would people living off hunting game and gathering food from plants that grow wild all of a sudden divert a great deal of effort into building large structures that had no relevance to how they stayed alive. Isn’t it at least just as probable that these structures were built by people who had descended from a family that possessed a sophisticated knowledge of building techniques and who were now occupying land that was completely free of groups or tribes?
VK: Noah built a huge ark that survived a great flood. And we know from the Bible that Adam’s earliest descendants founded cities, worked with metal, and even made musical instruments. Said differently, rather than human beings having to learn everything by trial-and-error the human race was started with the kind of knowledge to build sophisticated structures.
RD: Yes. And then there’s the whole question of why – if the modern human race had been in existence for hundreds of thousands of years – all of a sudden one day they began building these complicated buildings and complexes. Remember there is absolutely no evidence in the world of human sites that existed tens of thousands of years ago. Dinosaur bones supposedly survived intact for millions of years. So, even if humans 20,000 or 50,000 years ago had built homes or communities it seems probable that some evidence would have survived. The evidence from the most ancient structures we know about on earth fits in very well with a Biblical narrative but runs into some significant difficulties with the secular explanation.
VK: And that is why we all need to know a little bit about archeology. There’s an old saying that “you better teach your kids about faith. Otherwise the only faith they will know will be what comes from the world.” Archeology may or may not interest us as a subject. But we must know enough to be able to help our kids understand and avoid the pits the world will put in their path. Knowing a little bit about archeology can help with this greater goal. God has given us ample evidence that His word is true. But He expects us to exercise our minds and wills to become familiar with the evidence and to incorporate into our lives and faith. This sounds like a time to go to God in prayer. Today let’s listen to a prayer for our nation. The Bible tells us that we are to be good citizens of the nation in which we find ourselves. And certainly part of doing that is to work for the common good, pray for our communities and states, and encourage everyone to grow in godliness. Only a Godly people will persevere and prevail in a fallen creation.
---- PRAYER FOR THE NATION
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the English Standard Version)
Proverbs, Chapter 8, verses 22 and 23, English Standard Version
Göbekli Tepe shows evidence of geometric planning (creation.com)

Episode 255 – Archeology and the Bible – Part 10 – The Forest and the Trees
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
After he said this, Jesus … made some mud … he rubbed the mud on the man's eyes and told him, “Go and wash your face in the Pool of Siloam.” … the man went, washed his face, and came back seeing.
The Gospel of John, Chapter 9, verses 6 and 7, Good News Translation

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VK: Hello and welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. This is our 10th and final episode in our series on archeology and the Bible. This is not our final episode because we have exhausted the pool of archeological findings that support the trustworthiness of the Bible. You could do a radio show or podcast every day for the rest of your life and never cover all of that evidence. Instead, in our series we have discussed just a few of the thousands of archeological discoveries that support the accuracy of the Bible’s text. But we hope the examples that we have cited will inspire listeners to do some further exploration on their own. RD Fierro is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books and he is in the studio today as we wrap up this series. RD, we could go on for months or years talking about all of the archeological evidence that demonstrates that the history contained in the Bible is reliable. So, why limit this series to 10 episodes?
RD: Well, before we get started I’d also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. And, if this is your first time being with us, we’d encourage to you to check out – not only the earlier episodes in this series but all of our previous series because Anchored by Truth is the only radio show that we know of that focuses exclusively on demonstrating the inspiration, inerrancy, and infallibility of scripture. And that’s why we do series like this one on archeology and the Bible. But archeology is only one of the disciplines that support the accuracy of the Bible. While most people don’t realize it because of the Biblically hostile culture in which we live physics, chemistry, biology, geology, paleontology, and many other scientific disciplines – as well as basic logic and reason – support the fact that the Bible is the inspired revelation of an almighty God. In fact, you really can’t have a truly coherent worldview without acknowledging that the Bible is God’s inerrant word. And that’s our purpose – to help people develop not only that awareness but also be able to cogently explain why this is true.
VK: That’s a big statement. I don’t think many people in the world, especially in the western world, would accept the fact that we must accept the truth of the Bible to form a coherent worldview.
RD: It’s a big statement but that doesn’t mean that it’s not true. And in the future we are going to do a series on why forming a coherent worldview necessitates a Biblical worldview. But for today’s wrap up we’re just adding one more piece to the assembly of that much larger puzzle.
VK: What you’re saying is that building a coherent worldview – a truly coherent worldview – isn’t something that can be done in a few minutes, hours, or days – or even months. Building a truly coherent worldview and seeing how and where the Bible fits in takes years. You must build a coherent worldview just as you would assemble a jigsaw puzzle - one piece at a time. But each piece that you put into place enables you to see the larger picture or pattern more clearly. And that’s what we try to do with these series. We keep adding pieces to the larger picture – one episode at a time and one series at a time. This series on archeology is just one piece of evidence that demonstrates the historical reliability of the Bible. It’s just one piece but it is an important piece.
RD: Yes. At Anchored by Truth and Crystal Sea Books our basic formulation for how we can be sure that the Bible is the inspired word of God is centered around four lines of evidence: reliable history, remarkable unity, fulfilled prophecy, and redeemed destinies. So, in this series we have pointed out a number of specific examples of archeological discoveries that have demonstrated that the Bible’s historical record is true.
VK: We’ve talked about the fact that the rediscovery of the city of Nineveh in the mid-19th century confirmed portions of the book of Jonah that were doubted by secular scholars. We’ve talked about the evidence that supports the historicity of the Biblical records contained in both the Old and New Testaments with respect to the city of Jericho. We discussed the fact that the Bible not only gets the big details of history right – such as the names of empires, emperors, cities, and nations – but also smaller details. We talked about how the book of Jeremiah even accurately preserved the name of one of the king of Babylon’s court officers. That’s the kind of historical detail that is easily lost in the sweep of history but the Bible kept it and it’s been validated by archeology.
RD: Yes. And we could have offered many, many more examples. At the start of today’s episode we used a quote from the gospel of John where Jesus restored sight to a blind man. As a part of the process Jesus told the blind man to wash his face in the pool of Siloam. Jesus named the pool he wanted the man to wash in. So, obviously this pool was well known in Jesus’ day. Well, in 2004 a crew digging a sewer line in Jerusalem uncovered some well-dressed stone steps that were covered by more than 10 feet of soil that had washed into a valley. Further exploration revealed that the steps led into a stone-lined pool that was not far from a tunnel that in Old Testament times had brought water into Jerusalem.
VK: This water tunnel is called Hezekiah’s tunnel because it was built by the Old Testament king of Judah named Hezekiah as part of his preparations to withstand a siege by the Assyrians. The tunnel itself is mentioned 2 Kings, chapter 20, verse 20 and 2 Chronicles, chapter 32, verse 30. We have a friend who actually walked through the tunnel when he visited the Holy Land. The tunnel was finalized around 701 BC although portions of it may have existed earlier.
RD: Right. Subsequent excavations at the pool revealed coins that the pool dated from around the first century BC and other coins revealed that the pool was still in use during the time of the Jewish revolt against the Romans which lasted from 66 AD to 70 AD. In other words, the pool would have been in use during Jesus’ earthly ministry around 30 to 33 AD. So, Hezekiah’s tunnel and the pool at Siloam are just two more examples of archeological discoveries that are entirely consistent with the Bible record.
VK: And there are countless others that we could cite. Bible critics used to doubt the existence of the greatest king of Israel during the Old Testament period: King David. Due to the Bible’s description of him, he almost seemed to be legendary – a sort of Old Testament King Arthur. But in 1993 a fragment of an ancient stone tablet was found that mentions the “House of David.” This fragment was dated from the late-9th century BC which means it dated about 150 years after the time that David was king of Israel. The fragment also mentions other names of kings that are named in the Bible. Scholars are agreed that 150 years is not enough time for true legends to form so the fragment pointed clearly to the existence of a king named David whose dynastic succession was still in existence at the time the fragment was prepared. Again, this is a clear example of archeology supporting the Bible. So, with all the examples that are available that support the Bible’s records why do you think that so many critics continue to resist the idea that the Bible’s history is accurate?
RD: Well, that’s actually the major subject I wanted to tackle today as we finish our series on archeology and the Bible. We began talking about this last time. It’s somewhat amazing to me how many people will dismiss the reliability of the Bible’s text and then proceed to rely on it as if it were true.
VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about?
RD: Sure. Last year a friend of mine read James Michener’s book called The Source. He wanted me to read it. So, he got me a copy. The back cover of the version he got me says this: “Michener vividly re-creates life in an ancient city and traces the profound history of the Jewish people – from the persecution of the early Hebrews, the rise of Christianity, and the Crusades to the founding of Israel and the modern conflict in the Middle East.” The hero of Michener’s book is an archeologist named Cullinane. Michener has this to say about his hero: “He was the crop-headed type of new scholar, solidly trained and not given to nonsense.”
VK: In other words Michener’s archeologist isn’t one of those silly people who accept the Bible as being reliable and true.
RD: Right. In one incident Michener writes this: “On his departure from Chicago, loaded with gear, [Cullinane] had been asked by a newspaperman if he expected to dig up any records which would prove that the Bible was true. Cullinane replied, ‘No, we’re not out to help God steady the ark.’”
VK: But then you said that 25 pages after his hero dismissed the Bible’s truth the hero is then finding artifacts and uses the Bible to give them context and meaning as well as citing details about history that come to us from the Bible.
RD: Exactly. Michener does exactly what so many people do – and not just with respect to archeology. They openly contend that the Bible’s text is untrustworthy but then proceed to rely on the truth of the Bible’s reports.
VK: For instance, the back cover talks about “the profound history of the Jewish people” and “the persecution of the early Hebrews.” But we could ask Michener, what constitutes a Hebrew or a Jew? Someone might reply that a Jew is a descendant of the patriarch Abraham.
RD: And that would be partially true. The Jewish people are descendants of Abraham. But there are a lot of other people in the world today who also trace their ancestry to Abraham. For example, many of the modern day Arabic tribes see Abraham’s first born son, Ishmael, as their ancestor. And Abraham had a number of other sons. Genesis, chapter 25, verses 1 through 5 says this: “Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah. She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan; the descendants of Dedan were the Ashurites, the Letushites and the Leummites. The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanok, Abida and Eldaah. All these were descendants of Keturah. Abraham left everything he owned to Isaac. But while he was still living, he gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and sent them away from his son Isaac to the land of the east.”
VK: So, the point is that a lot of tribes and national groups were descended from Abraham. Well, then as a further qualification we might say that the Jewish people are descended through Abraham’s son Isaac.
RD: And that would also be partially true. But Isaac and Rebecca had two sons, Esau and Jacob (who was later renamed Israel by God). And Jacob wasn’t the only one who founded a nation that persisted for hundreds of years. Esau was the ancestor of the Edomites who are mentioned frequently in the Old Testament, often as an enemy of Israel and Judah. After the southern kingdom of Judah was taken into captivity by Nebuchadnezzar the Edomites moved into some of the vacant territory into the region of the former city of Hebron. The Greeks and the Romans called this region Idumea. And the Idumeans were present in the time of Jesus. Herod the Great was the son of an Edomite father and a Jewish mother. So, just because someone was descended from Isaac wouldn’t make them a Jew.
VK: In other words, to be considered Jewish someone would have to be descended not only from Abraham and Isaac but also Jacob. And we learn from the book of Genesis that Jacob – who was later renamed Israel by God – was indeed the father of the 12 men who gave rise to the 12 tribes of Israel. But I think I see where you’re going. The back cover of Michener’s book says that it is going to discuss the “profound history of the Jewish people” but how would you even know where that history begins if you eliminate the Bible or if you discount the accuracy of the Bible’s reports?
RD: Exactly. Michener’s hero discounts that he will find anything that will be relevant to the Bible’s truth but then must presume that truth in order to even make sense of a great many of the artifacts he unearths. And that’s what a great many people these days do. They tell us the Bible is a dry well for truth but then return to that well many, many times when they need to fill in the gaps of what they see in the earth. I was watching a public television documentary recently about the history of writing and the alphabet. In general, it was very informative. But part of the narrative said that human beings had been around for 300,000 years but writing had only been around for the last 5,000 years.
VK: But even that period of human existence of 300,000 years isn’t agreed upon by secular scientists. Many discussions of the history of humanity have our specific species dating back as much as 800,000 or even a million years ago. And our “near ancestors” are sometimes dated to as much as 2 and a half or 3 million years ago.
RD: Correct. Secular science wants to find a long period for human existence but is forced to acknowledge that common attributes that mark human civilizations like building and writing can only be dated to thousands of years ago. Even if we accept secular science’s dating of the oldest ruins on earth they only date to about 10,000 years before Christ.
VK: And as we have discussed in other episodes in this series those dates are assigned not measured. There is no way to directly measure an ancient date. And the assigned dates are all dependent on a set of unprovable assumptions.
RD: Right, but notice something. The observable evidence is all entirely consistent with a Biblical time period. The Biblical time period says that the earth is roughly 6,200 years old and the flood of Noah occurred about 1,500 years after creation. I’m using round numbers here for the sake of simplicity. This means that the oldest human structures or trees (which are the longest living land plants) would be just shy of 5,000 years old. This time period is entirely consistent with observations that we make about the world as we see it today.
VK: And for anyone who wants to go deeper into more of the problems with deep time and uniformitarianism they can go to our website, crystalseabooks.com, and locate our series on “10 facts every Christian needs to know.” In that series we have a lengthier discussion than we can undertake today about the scientific problems with the secular ideas about deep time.
RD: Yes. So, one of the big ideas we want people to remember as we close out this series on the Bible and archeology is that the observations we can make today through available evidence are consistent with the Bible’s reported time frames. But when you start using secular conventions of millions and billions of years you run into some real issues.
VK: Such as “where are all the dead human bodies?” If human beings have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, or more, where are all the bones of the people who supposedly existed during that period? There are extraordinary fossils of very small creatures that supposedly died millions of years ago and we see their remains but we find very few, if any, human remains. And those that are supposedly human, or pre-human, have numerous problems with the identifying the skeletons as being truly human.
RD: Right. And it’s not as though secular scientists aren’t aware of the problems that arise with their time frames and alternative explanations. They are. But in order to resist the obvious conclusion that evidence from human and natural history is entirely consistent with the Bible they have to find reasons to disagree with what the Bible is telling us.
VK: And some scientists have become willing to admit that they do so. Harvard evolutionary biologist and geneticist Richard Lewontin wrote: “We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failures to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
RD: Lewontin said the quiet part out loud. Science does not require a materialistic explanation but secular scientists do. And, sadly, they are aided in their quest to cast doubt on the Bible’s records by liberal so-called theologians who bring an anti-supernatural bias to the Bible. There have been a number of groups who have supposedly wanted to find the “authentic Jesus” or “the real history” behind the Bible’s plain declarations. So, they admit that the city of Jericho existed and that the walls fell but they must doubt the dating of when the walls collapsed. They admit that there was a dynastic succession of kings in the southern kingdom of Judah but then dispute who was the founder of the succession despite the Bible’s record of the life of King David. They admit that the book of Daniel reports accurately the succession of empires that controlled the Middle East in Biblical times but claim that the book of Daniel must have written 400 years after the date that it was.
VK: And, as you said, they do all of this because they must resist the conclusions that are inescapable if the Bible is what it says it is – the Word of an almighty God. Because that word of God doesn’t just contain statements about history, culture, and nations it also contains ethical and moral prescriptions. The Bible is a unique book in human history and human experience. As some people have noted, “most of the time people judge books. The Bible is a book that judges people.”
RD: Yes. Archeological findings provide a great deal of support for the accuracy of the Bible’s historical records. Thus, any fair evaluation of the Bible must be that it is a generally reliable historical record. But this generally reliable historical record goes on to record not just ordinary history but also an extraordinary, redemptive history. The Bible records God’s superintendence of redemptive history including His direct intervention at times to keep His plan on track. God’s superintendence and intervention is an anathema to modern man that wants to believe that man is the penultimate actor in the universe. And God’s presence in the universe means there is an ultimate Judge who will one day hold all people accountable for their lives and actions.
VK: This is why so many people resist the obvious conclusion that the Bible contains a reliable record of the history it chooses to report. If the Bible is trustworthy when it comes to history it is likely also trustworthy when it comes to its enduring ethical pronouncements and its warnings about the consequences for ignoring or disobeying God. The same God that brought down the walls of Jericho, also brought down the Babylonian Empire. He also destroyed the city of Nineveh so completely it was lost to history for almost 2,000 years and He allowed the city of Jerusalem to be destroyed for rejecting His Messiah.
RD: Yes. Our God is a God of mercy and salvation but He is also a God of justice and holiness and we see evidence of all of His attributes in human history especially the history of Israel and the Middle East. Michener’s fictional hero wants to study the history of the Jews but he doesn’t want to learn anything from that history. Like so many today Michener’s hero thinks that the horned-altar he finds in the mound he is excavating is just another ancient relic. He fails to recognize that among the God of Israel was not the same as the gods of the surrounding cultures. Michener’s hero has failed to make a critical distinction – between the One True God of the Bible and the false gods invented by men to avoid acknowledging the True God. The Bible is a single story about creation, fall, and redemption. Archeological discoveries affirm the accuracy of many of the events in that redemptive history. But redemption would be irrelevant and unnecessary if the fall had not occurred. And that is what is so dangerous about us not preparing ourselves to effectively advocate for the One who provides redemption – because the effects of the fall will one day sweep away everyone who has not turned to the God of salvation.
VK: And that is why we all need to study the Bible and study enough about the Bible’s settings and history to help our friends and family. Archeology helps us do that. And there a lot of good resources that can give us a good, basic understanding of how archeology helps reinforce our confidence in the Bible. We should know enough to be able to help our kids and grandkids understand and avoid the pushback from a world that doesn’t want them to live a life of saving faith. Knowing a little bit about archeology can help with this greater goal. God has given us ample evidence His word is true. He expects us to exercise our minds and wills to become familiar with the evidence and to incorporate into our lives and faith. As we close, today let’s listen to a prayer of adoration for our Creator God. God not only created everything that exists, He also maintains it by His infinite power. As the Apostle Paul said to the Athenians “in [God] we live and move and have our being.” Surely, such a God is always worthy of adoration of Him.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION OF THE CREATOR
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quote from the Good News Translation)
The Gospel of John, Chapter 9, verses 6 and 7, Good News Translation

Episode 256 – Competing Truth Claims About Genesis Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script: (Bible quotes from the New Living Translation) “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. Who determined its dimensions and stretched out the surveying line? What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone as the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?” Job Chapter 38, verses 4 through 7, New Living Translation “Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see... Everything was created through him and for him. He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together it.” Colossians Chapter 1, verses 15 through 17, New Living Translation ******** VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author, founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time interior designer. He arranges the books in the display case in the lobby. And speaking of arranging things, we have arranged a very special series on Anchored by Truth that will begin next week. Starting next week and for several weeks in a row we will doing a very special series and to help us do that we will have a VERY special guest. RD, do you want to tell us about this extra special series that we’re introducing today on Anchored by Truth? RD: I do indeed. Today we’re going to launch a series of shows I’m calling “The Truth in Genesis.” Obviously, Anchored by Truth is all about demonstrating that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. We start every show with that proclamation. But I think one of the big challenges that most Christians face today who believe that the Bible is the word of God is how to sustain that belief in a relativistic world and culture that bombards us constantly with the message that there is no such thing as absolute truth and that there is no way to know whether any book, including the Bible, can be shown to be the word of God. And certainly for Christians in contemporary culture one of the most immediate challenges that is placed before us is right at the beginning of the Bible in Chapter 1 where the Bible tells us that God created the heavens, the earth, and everything that exists on the earth including all living creatures and most especially, us. Supposedly, that claim is at odds with what contemporary science tells us about the universe and life. So, for a Christian to maintain their faith in the Bible today culture they must immediately confront the cultural challenge to the Bible’s proclamation about creation. VK: And your contention is that it is a cultural challenge more than a scientific one. Your view is that there is substantial scientific evidence that absolutely supports, as you are saying, the truth in Genesis. And that’s what this series of radio episodes is going to be about. We are going to review some of the scientific evidence that pertains to the age of the universe and earth and the origin and development of life. We believe that conducting this review listeners will be able to see how objective, scientific observations fit very well with a proper understanding of the Genesis text. And to help us do that for most of the shows we have a very special, invited guest to help. But before we provide the details about our upcoming special guest or get too much farther into our discussion about the serious stuff, we’d like to start by just reminding the folks about how the Bible tells us that God did go about creating the heavens and earth. To do that we want to play a portion of Crystal Seas’ upcoming poetic series called the Genesis Saga. For today, let’s listen to Part 1 of the Genesis Saga which we call Seven Days of Wonder. ---- SEVEN DAYS OF WONDER VK: I know I’m biased but I just love the simple beauty of the descriptions contained in that piece. The piece is visual and emotional but it also gives us a description of each day of creation that is absolutely faithful to Chapter 1 of Genesis. RD: And that was certainly our goal. In fact it’s always our goal at Crystal Sea and Anchored by Truth. We want people to always be drawn back to the Bible for their own inspiration and edification. Particularly when it comes to creation the best that we can do today is look at to evidence that can be found in the world around us and see where the evidence points insofar as origins are concerned. But the Bible provides us an eyewitness account of creation from the only One who was there when it all took place: God. Because God, in fact, was not only there, He was the One who did the creating. VK: But of course, that’s the part that’s to so much disagreement today or outright disbelief and criticism. Today, a great many people go to science to get their explanation for the origin of the universe, the earth, life, and people. RD: And in a certain sense that’s ok – provided we always remember that it’s the scientific evidence we should look to – as opposed to simply accepting certain interpretations of that evidence. Everyone – including you, me, and scientists approach the world with an established set of axioms, a lens if you will, through which we will view issues or evidence that comes before us. There is a tendency, however, in our day and age to somehow believe that - if someone calls himself or herself a scientist – that they have set aside all preconceptions and are somehow now operating in an objective, dispassionate fashion without such a set of preconceptions or axioms. While I don’t doubt that the vast majority of scientists are genuinely interested in trying to better understand the world and universe it would be a mistake to not understand that scientists are people complete with agendas, aspirations, and viewpoints that will affect how they approach evidence. VK: Can you give us an example of what you’re thinking about? RD: Sure. There are massive fossil beds - graveyards of thousands and even millions of fish, dinosaurs, and mammals that are found in North America, Europe, and Africa. The same is true of plants. From Utah-Colorado north to Alberta-Saskatchewan, Canada, thousands of dinosaurs are found in certain beds such as the Morrison Formation. These sites reveal that great quantities of animals were buried together rapidly. The rapid burial resulted in excellent preservation of the remains and the position of mammals suggests death by drowning. In Brazil there is a large plateau where fish fossils are found with the skin, muscles, organs etc. all preserved. The fish look like they had just been caught but they are petrified and hard as stone. They are abundant and distributed over several thousand square miles. The plateau where these fossils are found is well above sea level and a good 500 miles from the Atlantic Ocean. This is remarkable because experiments with fresh dead fish have shown that dead fish in water will disintegrate and their skeletons will fall apart in less than one week. Only catastrophic conditions would have enabled the preservation of such an extensive collection of animals and plants so exquisitely preserved. A world-wide catastrophe involving water is a very reasonable explanation for these observations. But a geologist or paleontologist who rejects the Biblical flood account will come to the same evidence but will provide a different explanation for the evidence. VK: Such as? RD: Well they might believe there have been catastrophic floods in the past, just not a world-wide one. They might believe in a more localized flood perhaps based on a catastrophe caused by an asteroid strike or an immense undersea volcanic eruption that caused a massive tsunami. VK: So your point is that different people can approach the same body of evidence and arrive at very different conclusions. And a part of their determination will be based on the set of axioms that they use to approach either life in general or in the practice of their profession. And we see that kind of variation in the results of decision making every day in the world around us. Two different financial analysts look at exactly the same set of financial statements or business presentations and one says a company’s stock is a buy and the other says it’s a sell. Two different forensic examiners look at the same evidence and one might say it points to the innocence of a defendant and the other believes it points to guilt. RD: Exactly. And that’s one of the reasons we wanted to do a series on the book of Genesis because so often today the only discussion people hear about the earth’s past is very one sided. Today, almost without exception, we are told that all scientific evidence points to a universe and earth that are billions of years old and that life on earth began without an intelligent cause – or as I would say God. So, we wanted to do a series of Anchored by Truth episodes that examine some of the latest scientific discoveries and see whether or not the only reasonable conclusion is that science contradicts Genesis. That’s the reason we’re calling this series The Truth in Genesis. VK: And to help us do that we’ve invited one of the premier scientists and experts on the question of origins, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, to be our guest in the studio for the next several weeks. For those who aren’t familiar with Dr. Sarfati’s work we would encourage listeners to check out his impressive body of writing. He’s written a number of widely selling books that challenge the conventional views of what chemistry, geology, and paleontology say about the age of the universe and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution, By Design, and The Greatest Hoax on Earth. Dr. Sarfati will be addressing a wide variety of topics during this series including problems with conventional dating methodologies, affirmative evidence that the universe is actually fairly young, scientific challenges to life arising from non-living chemicals, and evidence that the earth’s surface provides abundant evidence of a world-wide flood. We will even be doing an entire show just on dinosaurs and what the latest dinosaur research actually tells us about the earth’s history. RD: I think this will be a truly amazing series especially for listeners who have never had the chance to do any personal investigation into what science actually reveals about the key questions of the age of the universe and how life on the earth began. And I’d like to emphasize that while we will not be shy about discussing the Bible in connection with these important topics, this series really will be top heavy with science. Dr. Sarfati’s title is the Lead Scientist for Creation Ministries International. He has a Ph.D. in physical chemistry and he is an internationally ranked chess champion. He’s well known for playing up to chess with up to 12 players simultaneously while he is blindfolded. VK: He sounds pretty impressive but what about your earlier warning that scientists are just people and that we shouldn’t necessarily accept their opinions just because they are scientists? RD: And I’m standing by that warning. I don’t think anyone should accept Dr. Sarfati’s analyses just because they come from him any more than I think that we should blindly place our trust in any human source. The point of my earlier observation is that we can and should listen to people who are acknowledged experts in their fields whether it’s a geologist, paleontologist, medical doctor, or auto mechanic. But we should always employ our own reasoning skills to examine what they’re telling us and make our own determination about whether what they’re telling us makes sense, especially if they start telling us that their point of view is the only reasonable or even possible one - which is something that evolutionary adherents have been saying for decades. VK: So what you’re saying is that when someone says, “Evolution is not a theory. It is a fact,” that what they’re really trying to do isn’t to examine the evidence for or against the evolutionary hypothesis. The real intent is shut down debate. They’re trying to avoid any need to consider evidence that doesn’t support their position. RD: Yes. All too often that’s what happens. Conventional science has embraced the evolutionary hypothesis for so long that a great many scientists, as well as their lay followers, are no longer willing to consider any alternatives. But despite these assertions, the truth is that “goo to you,” “particles to people,” “the sea to me” position on evolution is not a proven fact. So, people who believe in believe in Biblical creationism simply want to point out that since it is not a proven fact evolution as the solution for the origin of life should not be promoted dogmatically. But throughout the halls of schools and colleges everywhere as well as in the popular press and media it is. Phillip Johnson in his groundbreaking work Darwin on Trial devoted an entire chapter to discussing what Johnson called the “Darwinist Religion.” In other words, all too often today the scientific problems with evolution are simply dismissed because the evolutionary paradigm is deemed to be so sacrosanct no forms of dissent are tolerable. VK: But one of the ironies that we are going to cover during the series is the fact that some of the evidentiary elements that are often offered in support of evolution actually point in the opposite direction. For instance, the fossil record is often touted as demonstrating that there is empirical evidence for evolutionary development. But even Charles Darwin recognized that the fossil record at his time didn’t support his theory. He famously wrote, “Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory.” Darwin hoped that with further exploration gaps in the fossil record would be closed and so called “intermediate species” would be identified. Yet despite the fact that over 100,000 species are now known from the fossil record there are only a handful of truly viable candidates that are known to be possible intermediates. RD: And that’s just one example of the scientific problems that plagues the evolutionary hypothesis and it’s a great example of the kinds of topics we hope to discuss during the series. And since time is running out on this episode of Anchored by Truth I’d like to cover one final point. During this series we are going to be contrasting Biblical creationism vs. “molecules to men” evolution. I am well aware that there are various positions regarding origins and biological development that try to straddle the obvious gaps between those two positions. VK: Such as so-called theistic evolution where God created life but then used evolution to form the species that we see existing today? RD: Yes. Theistic evolution is an attempt to resolve the tension between Biblical creationism and evolution. Just like the Day-Age approach is an attempt to reconcile the differences in the time scales we get from the Bible and from conventional science. I think there are significant problems with both of those approaches and other middle-of-the-road type of strategies. For instance, one of the problems with theistic evolution is that it places death before sin in the chronology of the history and I think that’s problematic given the entirety of scripture. So, because of the limited time we’ll have for addressing a large variety of topics we’re going to concentrate on how science supports the orthodox view of Biblical creationism because that’s the view that gets the least time in most discussions about these issues. VK: And one of the biggest reasons we want to that is that we want to be respectful of our listeners time. All of us have a lot going on so we want to be sure that if listeners are kind enough to tune into the show or the podcast we want their time to be rewarded with information that will help them develop in their own investigation of scripture and development of their faith. Since we’ve begun a focus on the first chapter of Genesis, how about if today we hear a prayer of adoration for the Creator? ---- PRAYER OF ADORATION FOR THE CREATOR (radio version) VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.” We hope you’ll be with us next time as we are joined by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati to begin our in depth look at the truth in Genesis. If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!” (Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation) The Book of Job, chapter 38, verses 4 through 7 The epistle to the Colossians, chapter 15 verses 1 through 17

https://creation.com/right-perspective-interpreting-data https://creation.com/gods-days https://creation.com/how-did-dinosaurs-grow-so-big https://creation.com/3-rs-of-evolution https://creation.com/divine-engineer-sarfati-by-design-review https://creation.com/the-evolution-trains-a-comin

Episode 257 – Creation According to Genesis – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script Notes: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day. Genesis, chapter 1, verses 1 through 5. New Living Translation

“Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’” And he said, “‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’ Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together.” The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 19, verses 4 through 6. New Living Translation

******** VK: VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we want to continue our discussion series that we’re calling The Truth in Genesis and to help us do that we’ve invited one of the premier scientists and experts on the question of origins, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, to be our guest in the studio for the next several weeks. For those who aren’t familiar with Dr. Sarfati’s work we would encourage listeners to check out his impressive body of writing. He’s written a number of widely selling books that challenge the conventional views of what chemistry, geology, and paleontology say about the age of the universe and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution, By Design, and The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account. During this series Dr. Sarfati will be addressing a wide variety of topics that are pertinent to the question of the origin of the earth and the universe. He will be providing us with insight into the extensive body of scientific evidence that supports the truth of the Genesis text. Along the way he will be addressing a number of subjects, including problems with conventional dating methods, affirmative evidence that the universe is actually fairly young, scientific challenges to life arising from non-living chemicals, and evidence that the earth’s surface provides abundant evidence of a world-wide flood. We will even be doing an entire show just on dinosaurs and what the latest dinosaur research actually tells us about the earth’s history. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself? Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments. VK: Is it fair to say, Dr. Sarfati that you believe that what some have termed the “Battle for the Beginning” is one of the most significant challenges facing the church today especially in America and in much of the developed world? Dr. Sarfati: Opening comments VK: It sounds as though you have a real heart to increase what we might call an awareness of the truth in Genesis to our culture today. So that sounds like you believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God which is a point of view we definitely share on Anchored by Truth. Is it fair to say that one of the reasons it’s so important to be very clear about a proper understanding of the opening verses of Genesis is because any view of creation other than a literal 6 24-hour day understanding of Genesis would require the existence of animal and human death before Adam’s sin? This would undermine God’s declaration of the unspoiled creation being “very good” and the clear link scripture makes between sin and death. Dr. Sarfati: Comments VK: So let’s amplify on that essential truth for our listeners. Question List: a. You strongly believe that the six days of creation described in Genesis chapter 1 must be understood as literal 24-hour periods? Why? b. The Hebrew word yom can be used to mean longer periods than a 24 hour day. Is interpreting yom to mean “age” rather than day a possible interpretation? c. The “gap” theory of creation posits a gap of an indeterminate time between creation and the subsequent events in Genesis and thereby could permit the earth to be millions or billions of years old. Is this possible? d. Some Biblical commentators argue that the “seventh” day of creation in which God rested is still going on. If so, that means that at least one of the days of creation wasn’t 24 literal hours. Doesn’t that mean that the earlier six days might also be of an indeterminate length? e. From a Biblical standpoint what is the age of the universe and earth? f. How is this age calculated? g. When and how did you arrive at the conviction that a proper interpretation of Genesis requires viewing creation as 6 24-hour days and the age of the universe as being thousands, rather than billions of years old? h. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study a correct interpretation of the Book of Genesis?

VK: So the one of the big takeaways from our discussion today is that any view of creation other than a literal 6 24-hour day understanding of Genesis would require the existence of animal and human death before Adam’s sin. This would undermine God’s declaration of the unspoiled creation being “very good” and the clear link scripture makes between sin and death. This position implies that the earth is thousands rather than billions of years old. Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer how about if we pray that everyone would come to a saving knowledge of the God of the Bible who is our one sure anchor to truth. ---- Prayer for the spiritually lost, radio version. VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!” (Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation) Genesis, chapter 1, verses 1 through 5. New Living Translation The Gospel of Matthew, chapter 19, verses 4 through 6. New Living Translation

https://creation.com/gods-days https://creation.com/how-did-dinosaurs-grow-so-big https://creation.com/3-rs-of-evolution https://creation.com/divine-engineer-sarfati-by-design-review https://creation.com/the-evolution-trains-a-comin

Episode 258 – Disappointing Dating – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script Notes: When Lamech was one 182, he had a son. Lamech said, “I'll name him Noah because he will give us comfort, as we struggle hard to make a living on this land that the Lord has put under a curse.” 0Lamech had more children and died at the age of 777. After Noah was 500 years old, he had three sons and named them Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Genesis, chapter 5, verses 28 through 32, Contemporary English Version

But first you must realize that in the last days some people won't think about anything except their own selfish desires. They will make fun of you and say, “Didn't your Lord promise to come back? Yet the first leaders have already died, and the world hasn't changed a bit.” They will say this because they want to forget that long ago the heavens and the earth were made at God's command. First Peter, chapter 3, verses 3 through 5, Contemporary English Version

******** VK: VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we want to continue our discussion series that we’re calling The Truth in Genesis and to help us do that we’ve invited one of the premier scientists and experts on the question of origins, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, to be our guest in the studio for the next several weeks. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account. During this series Dr. Sarfati will be addressing a wide variety of topics that are pertinent to the question of the origin of the earth and the universe. During the series he will be providing us with insight into the extensive body of scientific evidence that supports the truth of the Genesis text. Along the way he will be addressing a number of subjects, including problems with conventional dating methods methodologies, affirmative evidence that the universe is actually fairly young, scientific challenges to life arising from non-living chemicals, and evidence that the earth’s surface provides abundant evidence of a world-wide flood. In our last episode we learned that, contrary to many claims, the text of Genesis is actually very clear that God created the entire earth and universe in just six, normal 24 hour days. We are well aware that this position is at odds with the claims of contemporary culture. Yet, surprisingly enough, there is an enormous body of empirical observations that reinforces the Bible’s declaration and refutes the cultural consensus. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and Creation Ministries International? Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments. VK: As I mentioned in our last episode of Anchored by Truth you addressed why the Genesis text actually rules out the possibility that God performed His work of creation in six successive stages of indeterminate duration. Would mind briefly reminding our listeners of the major points that you made? Dr. Sarfati: Review comments for the meaning of the Genesis text VK: Thank you. That was very helpful. It’s so important to be very clear about a proper understanding of the opening verses of Genesis is essential because any other view of the creative period would require the existence of animal and human death before Adam’s sin? This would undermine God’s declaration of the unspoiled creation being “very good.” It would also undermine the clear link scripture makes between sin and death. And there is no good reason for Christians to attempt to fit scripture into a framework that sees the universe as being ancient as opposed to being young, is there? Dr. Sarfati: Introductory comments on problems with conventional dating methods. VK: So let’s expand on the basic point that you’re making. Conventional dating methods have fatal flaws that compromise their reliability for assigning dates to the distant past Question List: a. Well then, what are the most common methods used to assign dates to geological and paleontological phenomena and materials? b. What problems are present in these dating methodologies? c. Why do these dating methodologies result in unreliable results? d. Are there examples of ancient dates that were assigned to rocks of known recent origin? e. If conventional dating methodologies aren’t reliable, are there any methods for assigning dates in which believers can invest confidence? f. How do preconceptions affect attempts to assign dates to long past events? g. Why is it essential that the conventional scientific establishment defend the billions-of-years age assigned to the universe? h. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts that point out that the conventional age assigned to the universe is unlikely to be true? i. Could you briefly summarize the things Christians should keep in mind when they hear arguments supporting a billions-of-years age for creation? j. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study the scientific problems with a billions-of-years age for the universe?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that conventional dating methods have fatal flaws that compromise their reliability for assigning dates to the distant past. This means that the conclusion we get from Genesis – that the earth is thousands rather than billions of years old – is amply supported by scientific evidence. Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer how about if we pray for the restoration of the worship of the one True God throughout our land and world. ---- Prayer for the restoration of the worship of the one true God, radio version. VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!” (Bible Quotes from the Contemporary English Version) Genesis, chapter 5, verses 28 through 32, Contemporary English Version First Peter, chapter 3, verses 3 through 5, Contemporary English Version

https://creation.com/how-dating-methods-work

Episode 259 – Younger Than You Think – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. Script Notes: You alone are the Lord, Creator of the heavens and all the stars, Creator of the earth and those who live on it, Creator of the ocean and all its creatures. You are the source of life, praised by the stars that fill the heavens. Nehemiah, chapter 9, verse 6, Contemporary English Version Because of our faith, we know that the world was made at God's command. We also know that what can be seen was made out of what cannot be seen. Hebrews, chapter 11, verse 3, Contemporary English Version

******** VK: VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we are continuing our series that we call The Truth in Genesis. To help us do that we’ve invited one of the premier scientists and experts on the question of origins, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, to be our guest in the studio for the next several weeks. He’s written a number of widely selling books that challenge the conventional views of what chemistry, geology, and paleontology say about the age of the universe and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account. During this series Dr. Sarfati is addressing a wide variety of topics during this series including problems with conventional dating methods, affirmative evidence that the universe is actually fairly young, scientific challenges to life arising from non-living chemicals, and evidence that the earth’s surface provides abundant evidence of a world-wide flood. We are even going to do an entire show just on dinosaurs and what the latest dinosaur research actually tells us about the earth’s history. In our last episode we learned that there are a number of very significant scientific problems with the dating methodologies that are typically used to assign purported dates to events of the distant past. Today we are going to build on that discussion and learn that there is a substantial volume of empirical observation that actually indicate that the earth is much younger than traditionally assumed. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be persuaded that so much of what is typically taught about the age of the universe and earth isn’t supported by real science? Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments. VK: As I mentioned in our last episode of Anchored by Truth you addressed some of the major problems that affect the validity of dating methods such as the use of radiometric dating. Would mind briefly reminding our listeners of the major points that you made? Dr. Sarfati: Review comments for problems with dating methodologies VK: Thank you. That was very helpful. It’s so important to be very clear about the fact that there’s a difference between scientific evidence and the interpretation of that evidence. Contrary to popular belief not all scientists are unanimous that the universe and earth are billions of years old. There are many highly qualified scientists who have pointed to empirical observations that can only be explained by an earth that is thousands of years old. Dr. Sarfati: Introductory comments on the evidence that the earth is thousands of years old. VK: So let’s expand on the basic point that you’re making. Question List: a. What types of evidence exist that would place the age of the earth and the universe in the range of thousands rather than millions or billions of years old? In short - let’s assume uniformitarianism is true. But if uniformitarianism were true it would – in fact – undercut own foundations, wouldn’t it? b. What is carbon 14 and how does its presence in diamonds and other substances indicate that the earth cannot be as old as traditionally assumed? c. What is the faint young sun paradox and how does it demonstrate that the sun cannot be millions or billions of years old? d. Why do short period comets pose such a challenge to the belief that the universe is billions of years old? e. What examples are there of empirical observations that are typically used to support an ancient universe that are actually better explained by Biblical time periods? f. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts that point out that the conventional age assigned to the universe is unlikely to be true? g. Could you briefly summarize the evidence that demonstrates that the universe is actually much younger than normally assumed? h. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study the scientific basis for believing in a “young” earth and universe?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that there is a substantial body of scientific observation that can only be explained by an earth and universe that are substantially younger than is typically thought. This means that the conclusion we get from Genesis – that the earth is thousands rather than billions of years old – is amply supported by scientific evidence. Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer how about if we pray a prayer of adoration for the Father who is the one who spoke the heavens and earth into existence. ---- Prayer of Adoration for the Father, radio version. VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show. If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!” (Bible Quotes from the Contemporary English Version) Nehemiah, chapter 9, verse 6, Contemporary English Version Hebrews, chapter 11, verse 3, Contemporary English Version

https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth

Episode 260 – A Flood of Biblical Proportions – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis, chapter 7, verses 11 and 12, New King James Version
Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered.
Genesis, chapter 7, verses 17 through 20, New King James Version
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VK: VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we are continuing our series that we call The Truth in Genesis. To help us do that we’ve invited a gifted scientist and logic expert, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, to be our guest in the studio. Dr. Sarfati has written a number of widely selling books that bring a clear and comprehensive scientific perspective on what empirical observations actually tell us about the age of the universe and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution volumes 1 and 2, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account.
During this series Dr. Sarfati is addressing a wide variety of topics that pertain to a proper understanding of the opening chapters of the book of Genesis including evidence that the earth’s surface provides abundant evidence of a world-wide flood. Today we’ll be exploring that evidence in greater detail.
But just as a refresher for where we are in the Truth in Genesis series, in our last couple of episodes we learned that there are a number of very significant scientific problems with the dating methods methodologies that are typically used to assign ancient dates to the age of the earth. We also learned that there is a substantial volume of empirical observations that fit perfectly with the timeframes found in Genesis. Today we’re going to add to these earlier observations by taking a look at how a catastrophic world-wide flood also calls into question many of the dating assumptions so prevalent in popular discussions.
But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you pursued your interest in logical argumentation?
Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments.
VK: As I mentioned, in our last couple of episodes of Anchored by Truth you addressed some of the major problems that affect the validity of dating methods. You also showed us that there are some scientific facts that are completely at odds with the hypothesis that the earth is millions or billions of years old such as the recovery of intact soft tissue, such as blood vessels, from the skeletons of dinosaurs. Would you like to give us a brief overview of a few of the observations that you made?
Dr. Sarfati: Review comments for evidence of a young earth
VK: Thank you. That was very helpful. It’s very important to note that when it comes to assigning dates most conventional geologists today depend entirely on the assumption that the current appearance of the earth reflects processes that have been consistent and continuous throughout the earth’s history. Yet this assumption is unproven and unprovable. And the man who originally popularized this view, Charles Lyell was not a geologist. He was in fact a lawyer and his argument was not based on empirical observations. In fact, it was the creation scientists of his day who were committed to the use of empirical observations to support their views. Do I have that correct?
Dr. Sarfati: Introductory comments on uniformitarianism vs catastrophism.
VK: So let’s explore the scientific support for a flood that was literally of Biblical proportions.
Question List:
a. First, can we be sure that the flood described in chapters 6 through 9 of Genesis was a worldwide flood? Can the Genesis text be reasonably interpreted to permit a more localized flood?
b. What geological evidence demonstrates that at one point in its past the earth was entirely inundated by the flood waters?
c. What paleontological evidence demonstrates that at one point there was a rapid and sudden deposit of enormous amounts sediments and minerals? Is there any reasonable, scientific hypothesis that does not require a worldwide deluge that could also account for certain phenomena we see in the fossil record?
d. How does the Biblical description of the flood differ from flood accounts passed down in other cultures? Why can we be certain that the Biblical account was the accurate and original one and that the other floor narratives are accounts that have been distorted or mythologized through the years?
e. How does the “catastrophic plate tectonics” hypothesis explain geological observations that cannot be explained by conventional plate tectonics or other forms of geological uniformitarianism?
f. How many and what kinds of animals did Noah actually bring on the ark? Is it true that Christian scientists had considered the possibility of natural selection as a mechanism for the creation of new species?
g. How do we account, Biblically, for biodiversity and the worldwide distribution of animals?
h. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts that point out that the Biblical flood account may be accepted as literal history without compromising a belief in science or empirical observations?
i. Could you briefly summarize the things Christians should keep in mind when they hear arguments disputing the Biblical flood account?
j. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study the scientific dimension of the Genesis flood?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that there is a substantial body of scientific observation that can best be explained by a catastrophic world-wide inundation of the type we heard about in our opening scriptures. The Genesis flood explains geological phenomena that are observed around the globe. Therefore a billions-of-years age for the earth is not required for a valid understanding of geological formations. This means that the conclusion we get from Genesis – that the earth is thousands rather than billions of years old – is amply supported by empirical observations and scientific evidence.
Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer how about if we pray a prayer where we confess all the times we have departed from the truth of God’s word and our need to return to the truth found in holy scripture.
---- Prayer of Corporate Confession, radio version.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New King James Version)
Genesis, chapter 7, verses 11 and 12, New King James Version
Genesis, chapter 7, verses 17 through 20, New King James Version
https://creation.com/noahs-flood-questions-and-answers

Episode 261 – Dinosaur Duplicity – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength it has in its loins, what power in the muscles of its belly!
Its tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are close-knit. Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like rods of iron. It ranks first among the works of God, yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
Job, chapter 40, verses 15 through 19, New International Version
I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs, its strength and its graceful form.
Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth?
Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted. Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
Job, chapter 41, verses 12 through 20, New International Version
********
VK: VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we are pressing forward with our series that we call The Truth in Genesis. To help us in our exploration of one of the most fascinating – and controversial – parts of scripture, we’ve invited Dr. Jonathan Sarfati to be our guest in the studio. Dr. Sarfati is the lead scientist for Creation Ministries International. He has written a number of widely selling books that bring an understandable, yet comprehensive, scientific perspective on what empirical observations actually tell us about the age of the earth and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution volumes 1 and 2, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account.
During this series Dr. Sarfati is addressing a wide variety of topics that pertain to a proper understanding of scientific evidence that conflicts with the conventional view that the earth is billions of years old. Today we’ll be exploring some of the most fascinating parts of that evidence because we’ve devoted today’s show entirely to dinosaurs.
Specifically, today we’re going see that recent discoveries about dinosaur fossils are at odds with the hypothesis that these fossils are tens or hundreds of millions of years old. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became involved with Creation Ministries International?
Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments.
VK: Dr. Sarfati, in our first couple of episodes of our Truth in Genesis series you addressed some of the major problems that affect the validity of dating methods that are used to support the belief in an ancient earth. Last time we saw that the world-wide flood described in Genesis casts further doubt on the reliability of many of the popular claims about the old age of the universe and earth. Would you like to give us a brief overview of a few of the observations that you made?
Dr. Sarfati: Review comments for evidence of a young earth
VK: Thank you. That was very helpful. As we observed last time - it’s very important to note that the dates developed from geology depend entirely on the assumption that the current appearance of the earth reflects processes that have been consistent and continuous throughout the earth’s history. Yet this assumption is unproven and unprovable. But another problem is that geologists often look to paleontologists to corroborate their determinations. Ironically, though, paleontologists often do the reverse and look to geologists for date determinations. Do I have that correct?
Dr. Sarfati: Introductory comments on the geology-paleontology circle.
VK: So let’s delve more deeply into what we actually learn by studying dinosaurs.
Question List:
a. Do dinosaurs prove that the earth is billions or millions old?
b. How does much of the evidence that is available from studying dinosaur fossils actually demonstrate that Biblical time frame is more accurate?
c. How does the presence of blood cells, elastic blood vessels, intact cells, animal proteins and DNA, found in dinosaur skeletons demonstrate that such skeletons could not be as old as the conventional dating theories assert?
d. Could dinosaurs have been present on Noah’s ark? Is there evidence to suggest that dinosaurs lived on the earth for some time after the flood waters had abated?
e. Is there evidence to suggest that dinosaurs may have lived in proximity to people at one time?
f. How do preconceptions affect paleontologists when they assign long age time periods to dinosaur skeletons?
g. Are there any Christian paleontologists who support a literal reading of Genesis and what that mean about dinosaurs? That dinosaurs were created on the sixth day, accompanied Noah on the ark, and existed for some period of time before becoming extinct as millions of other species have.
h. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts that point out that Christians can view dinosaur skeletons without surrendering any belief in a literal genesis?
i. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study more about what dinosaurs really tell us about the earth, it’s age and history?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that dinosaur remains and dinosaur skeletons do not provide evidence for a long dated age of the earth. This reinforces the conclusion that we saw last time: that the Genesis flood explains geological phenomena that are observed around the globe. So if a billions of years age for the earth is not necessary to explain either geological or paleontological discoveries maybe we should begin considering an alternative. This means that the conclusion we get from Genesis – that the earth is thousands rather than billions of years old – is amply supported by empirical observations and scientific evidence.
Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer, since so many of our children study dinosaurs in school, how about if we pray a prayer for any of our kids who may be preparing to take a test.
---- Prayer before taking a test, radio version.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
Job, chapter 40, verses 15 through 19, New International Version
Job, chapter 41, verses 12 through 20, New International Version
https://creation.com/how-did-dinosaurs-grow-so-big
https://creation.com/3-rs-of-evolution
https://creation.com/divine-engineer-sarfati-by-design-review
https://creation.com/the-evolution-trains-a-comin

Episode 262 – Evolution: A Word in Doubt – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
For the LORD is God, and he created the heavens and earth and put everything in place. He made the world to be lived in, not to be a place of empty chaos.
“I am the LORD,” he says, “and there is no other. I publicly proclaim bold promises. I do not whisper obscurities in some dark corner. I would not have told the people of Israel to seek me if I could not be found. I, the LORD, speak only what is true and declare only what is right.
Isaiah, chapter 45, verses 18 and 19, English Standard Version
You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power.
For you created all things, and they exist because you created what you pleased.
Revelation, chapter 4, verse 11, English Standard Version
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we are continuing to explore the origin of the universe and the beginning of life with our series that we call The Truth in Genesis. To help us in our exploration we’ve invited Dr. Jonathan Sarfati to be our guest in the studio. Dr. Sarfati is the lead scientist for Creation Ministries International. He has written a number of widely selling books that bring an understandable, yet comprehensive, scientific perspective on what empirical observations actually tell us about the age of the earth and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution volumes 1 and 2, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account.
During this series Dr. Sarfati has been answering questions about a wide variety of topics that pertain the evidence that supports the historicity of the literal Biblical account. Of course, we recognize that the overwhelming view in our culture today is that the universe is billions of years old and that life somehow arose spontaneously by a process labeled as “evolution.” But, surprisingly enough, the science that supports life arising from non-living chemicals is not nearly as settled as is usually thought. Moreover, as we’ll learn today, evolution as a hypothesis is defined so flexibly that it is nearly impossible to find a consensus on what the term actually means. Today we’ll be looking at what the terms “evolution” and “natural selection” actually mean and how God’s provision for the adaptation of species has been misused in a way that violates the rules of logic and evidence.
Specifically, today we’re going see that the concept of natural selection had actually been recognized by Biblical creationists before Charles Darwin ever put a pen to paper to publish his most famous book. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became interested in studying the subject of creation and biological adaptation?
Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments.
VK: Dr. Sarfati, during our last few episodes we have been discussing several key points demonstrate that the earth and universe are much younger than conventionally assumed. First, there are significant scientific problems with the way dates have been traditionally been assigned to the age of the universe and the earth. Second, there is a considerable body of scientific evidence that supports the ages for creation and the earth derived from Genesis. Third, the Noahic flood dispels the need for a long-age uniformitarianism to explain the geological configuration of the earth. A long age time period is absolutely essential to placing any confidence in – as you put it - a particles-to-people concept of evolution. But there are other problems with the notion that life arose from non-life and blind, random forces produced all the brilliant diversity we see on the earth today. But before we get too deep into our discussion the term “evolution” is often given widely varying meanings. What does the term “evolution” actually mean?
Dr. Sarfati: Comments on the varying ways “evolution” is used by its advocates
VK: Thank you. That was very helpful. So let’s delve more deeply into some of the issues associated with natural selection and evolution.
Question List:
a. Can you comment a little more on the fact that Christian scientists had considered the possibility of natural selection as a mechanism for the creation of new species before Darwin wrote The Origin of Species? If so, what was Darwin’s contribution to science?
b. What does “natural selection” mean and how does it operate?
c. Is it fair to say that the critical factor that precludes random, undirected activity, even at the molecular level, from enabling simpler life forms to “evolve” into more complex life forms is the inability of random activity to create the additional information within the cell that enables all complex life to function?
d. How can the loss of genetic information actually contribute to enhanced survival of a species in some circumstances?
e. Can genetic mutations ever create new information? Would it ever be possible for a single-celled ancestor to create all the genetic information present in humans and other higher orders of animals?
f. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study the scientific problems with evolution?
g. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts that Christians should know that demonstrate that particles-to-people evolution is not supported by actual scientific evidence?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that evolutionists consistently commit the logical fallacy of equivocation and use the term “evolution” to create a veneer of scientific respectability to defend an anti-supernatural secularism. This reinforces the conclusion that we have seen through this Truth in Genesis series. There are significant problems with common consensus that the universe is billions of years old and that the evolutionary hypothesis has been proven scientifically. Methods for assigning ancient days to long past events are not as reliable as normally thought. And the Genesis flood explains geological phenomena that are observed around the globe. So if a billions of years age for the earth is not necessary to explain either geological or paleontological discoveries maybe we should begin considering an alternative. This means that the conclusion we get from Genesis – that God created all the various “kinds” of animals – is amply supported by empirical observations and scientific evidence.
Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer, since we may often be the only one who can be the voice of God to bring God’s truth to our friends, how about today that we pray for those friends?
---- Prayer for Friends, radio version.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the English Standard Version)
Isaiah, chapter 45, verses 18 and 19, English Standard Version
Revelation, chapter 4, verse 11, English Standard Version
https://creation.com/3-rs-of-evolution
https://creation.com/divine-engineer-sarfati-by-design-review
https://creation.com/the-evolution-trains-a-comin

Episode 263 – Life Requires Intelligence and Information – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; His understanding is infinite.
Psalm 147, verse 5, American Standard Version
…for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
Colossians, chapter 1, verses 16 and 17, American Standard Version
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we want to continue our study of the origins of the universe and life with our series that we call The Truth in Genesis. To help us to understand not only what the Bible says but what the latest scientific evidence reveals we’ve invited Dr. Jonathan Sarfati to be our guest in the studio. Dr. Sarfati is an internationally known author and the lead scientist for Creation Ministries International. He has written a number of widely selling books that bring an understandable, yet comprehensive, scientific perspective on what empirical observations tell us about the age of the earth and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution volumes 1 and 2, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account.
During this series Dr. Sarfati has been answering questions about a wide variety of topics that pertain the evidence that supports the historicity of the literal Biblical account. Of course, we recognize that this can be a very controversial topic. So, our approach to our discussion has been to use reason, logic, and evidence to support all of the points that underscore the accuracy of the Bible text. Sometimes you will hear people say something like – “You have faith, but I have science.” This statement creates an artificial distinction between faith and science with the implication that the Christian faith requires the suspension of our trust in science. Nothing could be further from the truth, and that is one of the reasons that Dr. Sarfati’s books are so important. His books are filled with detailed explanations for how the creative process described in Genesis is amply sustained by empirical observations and the rigorous application of logic and reason.
Specifically, today we’re going see that the existence of life in any form requires not just chemistry and biology but also information – and a great deal of it. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you developed your interest and expertise in logical reasoning?
Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments.
VK: Dr. Sarfati, During our last several episodes we have been discussing key points that point to the fact that a literal interpretation of Genesis is not only true but well supported by reason and evidence. First, there are significant scientific problems with the way dates have been traditionally been assigned to the age of the universe and the earth. Second, there is a considerable body of scientific evidence that supports the ages for creation and the earth derived from Genesis. Third, the Noahic flood dispels the need for a long-age uniformitarianism to explain the geological configuration of the earth. A young earth would be an arrow in the heart of evolution as that term is commonly used. In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we saw that there is another arrow that is fatal to goo-to-you evolution: cellular information. But another line of scientific evidence that pierces the evolutionary veil surrounds the origin of life. What are the major problems that are encountered when someone tries to explain how inanimate particles came to life through the random collision of molecules?
Dr. Sarfati: Comments on how life cannot arise from random and chaotic activity
VK: Thank you for those observations. Obviously, this is a topic that could easily consume hours of discussion but since we don’t have that kind of time today, let’s get right to some detailed questions.
Question List:
a. The existence of life requires specified complexity. It also requires what one scientist has termed irreducible complexity, aka functionality threshold. What do these terms mean and how do they relate to the ability of blind chance to animate atoms?
b. The Urey–Miller experiments supposedly demonstrated that electrical discharges simulating lightning when sent through a mixture of gases could produce life sustaining amino acids. But we now know that the results of the experiments to explain the formation of life were wildly overstated. What did these experiments actually do and why did they actually not demonstrate how life could have formed?
c. If the primordial atmosphere contained oxygen early organic molecules would have been destroyed by oxidation. If the primordial atmosphere did not contain oxygen there would have been no ozone layer to block ultraviolet radiation which is particularly deadly to organic materials. How do evolutionary scientists try to get around this simple barrier to life’s origin absent intelligent intervention?
d. All life on earth is cellular based. But for a cell to live it must have a permeable membrane to enclose its protein machinery. But the protein machinery is necessary to build the permeable membrane. Isn’t this an absolute impediment to the validity of conventional evolutionary explanations for the origin of life?
e. The center piece of cellular reproduction is DNA. We now know that DNA isn’t just an arrangement of chemically linked molecules that happen to have a particular arrangement, but it is actually more akin to the software that operates a computer. The cell’s proteins are dependent on the DNA for instructions, but the DNA is dependent on the proteins for its own existence and maintenance. Doesn’t this mutual dependence destroy any possibility that life could have arisen by chance? DNA is also very unstable (as per the Nobel Prize for Chemistry 2015), and RNA is even less stable. In fact, even the building blocks like ribose and cytosine are too unstable to last long in a primordial soup.
f. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts about the origin of life that scientifically support Biblical creationism and demonstrate the futility of evolutionary thought to explain the existence of life?
g. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study more about why the complexity of life requires an intelligent cause?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that an intelligent cause is required to explain the specified and irreducible complexity present in life. Higher orders of animals are so complicated they point to a supremely intelligent Creator. This means that the conclusion we get from Genesis – that God created all life - is amply supported by empirical observations and scientific evidence. After all, all life demonstrates that it could not exist without an enormously complex information system. And the notion that a complex information system could arise randomly or chaotically is simply unreasonable in the formal sense of that word. The existence of life requires the organization of information. That points directly to a personal being – God – who had the intelligence and power to not only design the system but also bring it about.
Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today. Just as a reminder this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer, since there are so many places throughout the world where our Christian brothers and sisters are not free to practice their faith, how about today that we pray for those believers who live daily with persecution because of their faith?
---- Prayer for Persecuted Christians, radio version.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time when we’ll continue our discussion with Dr. Sarfati. And we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the American Standard Version)
Psalm 147, verse 5, American Standard Version
Colossians, chapter 1, verses 16 and 17, American Standard Version
https://creation.com/divine-engineer-sarfati-by-design-review
https://creation.com/the-evolution-trains-a-comin

Episode 264 – Evolution’s Deceptive Evidence – An Interview with Dr. Jonathan Sarfati
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script Notes:
With your wisdom and power you created the earth and spread out the heavens.
The waters in the heavens roar at your command. You make clouds appear— you send the winds from your storehouse and make lightning flash in the rain.
Jeremiah, Chapter 10, verses 12 and 13, Contemporary English Version
God's eternal power and character cannot be seen. But from the beginning of creation, God has shown what these are like by all he has made. That's why those people don't have any excuse.
Romans, chapter 1, verse 20, Contemporary English Version
********
VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. Today we are beginning the wrap up of the series that we call The Truth in Genesis. This series has been an examination of whether the latest contemporary science supports or refutes the traditional view of the Genesis text regarding creation. We’ve been led on this journey by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati. Dr. Sarfati is an internationally known author and the lead scientist for Creation Ministries International. He has written a number of widely selling books that bring an understandable, yet comprehensive, scientific perspective on what empirical observations tell us about the age of the earth and the origin of life. Dr. Sarfati has sold hundreds of thousands of books such as Refuting Evolution volumes 1 and 2, By Design, The Greatest Hoax on Earth and The Genesis Account.
During this series Dr. Sarfati has been answering questions about a wide variety of topics that pertain the evidence that supports the historicity of the literal Biblical account. These topics have included methods of assigning dates to long past events, what we really learn from studying dinosaurs, and how life cannot exist without the complex information system that is embedded in the DNA of all life. Our approach to our discussions has been to use reason, logic, and evidence to examine whether the Bible and science are indeed at odds with each other as is often asserted today. Thus far we have seen that nothing could be further from the truth than the assertion that we have to either accept either science or the content of the traditional Christian faith.
So as we begin our wrap up of this series, today we’re going see that many of the arguments commonly used to support the truth of evolution actually turn out to be evidence against it. But before we get too far into our discussion, Dr. Sarfati would you like to say a word of greeting to the Anchored by Truth listeners and give us some general comments on the whole subject of science and the Bible?
Dr. Sarfati: - Thanks for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be on Anchored by Truth today. Introductory comments.
VK: Dr. Sarfati, During our last several episodes we have seen that there is a substantial body of scientific evidence that demonstrates that the age of the universe cannot be as old as conventional science claims. The earth and universe are far more likely to be several thousand years old than several billion years old. As such, even assuming inanimate particles could somehow aggregate themselves to form self-replicating molecules there is insufficient time for those molecules to be transformed into the vast diversity of plant and animal species that currently exist on the earth, much less create a logical, purposive, ethically animated being such as man. Could you give us a brief summary of some of the evidence that points out how life is too complicated to arise from non-life by blind chance?
Dr. Sarfati: Comments on how life cannot arise by blind chance
VK: Thank you for those observations. So let’s get right to the main subject for today’s discussion - .
Question List:
a. Darwin made much of the homological nature of certain vertebrate structures as evidence of common descent. What is homology and what information do we now possess that Darwin did not? Why does homology fail as evidence for evolution?
b. Darwin acknowledged that the absence of transitional fossil evidence present in his time did not support his theory, but he appealed to future discoveries that he believed would come to his rescue. Have subsequent discoveries vindicated Darwin’s confidence that the fossil record would one day demonstrate that evolution is true?
c. The revolution is molecular biology did not take place until almost 100 years after Darwin’s publication of Origin of the Species. How have advances in our understanding of the atomic and molecular attributes of the cell affected the validity of the evolutionary hypothesis?
d. From a probability standpoint, what does the complexity of life imply about the likelihood that life could have arisen by chance?
e. The conventional explanation for the origin of life requires the existence of a widespread pre-biotic primordial soup. Is there any evidence that such a “soup” ever existed?
f. Some proponents of evolution have argued that we have been able to see “evolution before our eyes.” For example some have pointed to Richard Lenski’s decades-long experiments on bacteria as having demonstrated the truth of evolution. Did Lenski’s experiments show that single-celled creatures could turn into critics or creationists?
g. Are there any scientists who affirm the Genesis account and who do research into biological questions from a Creationist perspective?
h. In your opinion what are the three or four of the most important facts that Christians should keep in mind when reading articles about the supposed latest discoveries that support evolution as a viable explanation?
i. What resources would you recommend for Christians who want to study more about the scientific deficiencies in evolution as an explanation for life and biodiversity?

VK: So the big takeaway from our discussion today is that many of the traditional “proofs” used to demonstrate the validity of evolution actually demonstrate its unreliability as a scientific hypothesis. Homologous structures more often than not do not share a common embryological origin. The absence of transitional fossils really is evidence that transitional species do not exist and Darwin’s original concern for their absence has never been alleviated. And molecular biology, far from supporting evolution, has just presented even more perplexing challenges for the evolutionary hypothesis.
Dr. Sarfati, we’d really like to thank you for joining us on Anchored by Truth today and throughout this series. Your insights have been invaluable and I believe will continue to be a source of inspiration for everyone who is committed to the inspiration, inerrancy, and infallibility of scripture. Just as a reminder to our listeners, this show, as well as all Anchored by Truth episodes will be available by podcast shortly after the broadcast airing. So any listener today who has a friend or study group that could benefit from Dr. Sarfati’s depth of knowledge can go to their favorite podcast app and search on Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books. Today for our closing prayer, let’s listen to a prayer for our nation, especially that the light of truth would once again shine in the hearts of all our friends and neighbors.
---- Prayer for the Nation.
VK: We hope you’ll be with us next time and we hope you’ll take some time to encourage some friends to tune in too, or listen to the podcast version of this show.
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the American Standard Version)
Jeremiah, Chapter 10, verses 12 and 13, Contemporary English Version
Romans, chapter 1, verse 20, Contemporary English Version
https://creation.com/the-evolution-trains-a-comin

Episode 265 – The Truth in Genesis
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script: (Bible quotes from the New Living Translation)
Then the LORD said to Job, “Do you still want to argue with the Almighty?
You are God’s critic, but do you have the answers?” … Then the LORD answered Job from the whirlwind: “Brace yourself like a man, because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them!
Job, Chapter 40, verses 1 and 2 and verses 6 and 7, New Living Translation
I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end,”says the Lord God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One”… Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last. I am the living one. I died, but look—I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave.”
Revelation, Chapter 1, verse 8 and verses 17 and 18, New Living Translation
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VK: Hi! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m here today with RD Fierro, author, founder of Crystal Sea Books, and part-time mechanical engineer. He changes the air filter in the air conditioner. And speaking of changing things, today we are closing out the series that we’ve been presenting for several episodes that we’ve been calling The Truth in Genesis? So today we’re going to be doing a bit of a recap of all the subjects that we’ve covered and hit the highlights of some of the major things that we’ve learned. RD, would you like to say a brief word of introduction about today’s show?
RD: I would. Our “The Truth in Genesis” series was designed to allow listeners to hear a sample of the scientific evidence that is relevant to two of the most important topics that affect Biblical inspiration and infallibility: the age of the earth and universe and the origin and diversity of life. One of the biggest challenges facing most Christians is right at the beginning of the Bible in Chapter 1 where the Bible tells us that God created the heavens, the earth, and everything that exists on the earth including all living creatures and most especially, us. Supposedly, that claim is at odds with what contemporary science tells us about the universe and life. So, for a Christian to maintain their faith in the Bible today culture they must immediately confront the cultural challenge to the Bible’s proclamation about creation. In effect, our culture demands that we either surrender our faith in the Bible or our acceptance of science as a source of truth. I believe that we’ve shown through the episodes in this series that conscientious Christians don’t need to make that kind of a false choice.
VK: Your contention is that we have illustrated through the episodes in The Truth in Genesis series there is substantial scientific evidence that absolutely supports, the belief that the plain language of Genesis may be accepted as literal, historical fact. And today we want to review and summarize just a few snippets of what we’ve learned. But before we get too far into our discussion about the serious stuff, we’d like to start by just listening to a poetic summary of the state of this debate. To do that we want to play a portion of Crystal Seas’ upcoming poetic series called the Genesis Saga. For today, let’s listen to Part 5 of the Genesis Saga which – aptly enough - we call The Truth in Genesis.
---- TRUTH IN GENESIS
VK: That is a pretty amazing summary - and it rhymes. So let’s go back and cover briefly some of the main points of evidence that we’ve learned about from Truth in Genesis that support the fact that the universe and earth aren’t nearly as old as is commonly believed. Let’s also talk about how it would be impossible for the random, chaotic action of inanimate atoms and molecules to spontaneously give rise to life.
RD: Well, to start let’s be clear about the competing truth claims that we are examining. The Bible clearly claims that God created the heavens and earth and all the life that exists on the earth, whether plant or animal. And, according to most traditional interpretations, God performed His creative activity on the order of several thousands of years ago. Also, when it comes to animal life the Bible created all the “kinds” of animals that exist today. Contrary to the strawman version of Biblical creation that critics like to shoot at, “kinds” does not refer to the species that are extant today. Nor does the Biblical term “kind” refer to any particular taxonomic level such as an order or genus. It primarily refers to the ability of any two animals to reproduce regardless of how those animals might be classified according to current taxonomy.
By contrast the dominant view among most scientists today is that the universe is 14 billion, or so, years old and that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Also, most conventional biologists believe that life on earth evolved from primitive forms to more complex forms, likely starting with some sort of a self-replicating molecule that over time spontaneously aggregated into a single cell, and that from that cell all the amazing biodiversity we see around the globe today emerged – without direction or instruction from any intelligent source. As our guest for most of our shows, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, puts it – a “goo to you” form of evolution.
VK: Those are two very clearly contrasting views. But isn’t there sort of a middle ground that some have termed “theistic evolution?” This is the view that God created everything but then used evolution as a sort of intermediate mechanism to allow life to progress from simple forms to more complex ones and that over time many different forms of plants and animals emerged from the process that God originated.
RD: You are absolutely correct that there have been various attempts to bridge the gaps between Biblical creationism and a materialist, secularist form of evolution. The problem is that most of these “middle ground” approaches suffer from the same faults as the ones that afflict a purely materialistic evolution plus they create additional theological or Christological problems for Christians who hold them. For instance, any approach that presumes that God used evolution to produce man from some lower form of pre-human hominid requires that death preceded Adam and Eve’s fall – and that’s if they accept the fall as being a historical event. Yet various scriptures, such as Romans 5:17, tie death directly to Adam’s sin. Further, if Adam’s fall wasn’t a literal event that introduced death into a creation that God had deemed “very good,” then why was it necessary for Christ to die on the cross to undo the effects of sin.
VK: So, you’re saying the middle ground approaches really don’t bridge the gap and allow both sides to be right. But are you also saying that the middle grounds are subject to the same criticisms scientifically as a purely secularistic evolutionism.
RD: Yes. For instance, one of the problems we learned about insofar as evolution is concerned is the absence of transitional forms in the fossil record, a fact that even Charles Darwin noted and lamented. When you study the fossil record species appear suddenly and fully formed with very few specimens that can even be offered up as being transitional. Despite the fact over 90% of the fossils that have been discovered were discovered after Darwin wrote the Origin of Species there aren’t any more convincing transitional examples known to today than when Darwin lamented their absence. This absence of transitional fossils would be a problem for any form of evolutionary hypothesis whether theistic or not.
VK: What are a couple of other examples of problems that cast doubt on evolution regardless of which form is being discussed?
RD: Well, there’s what’s been called by one writer “the failure of homology.” Homology is the idea that certain structures present in different species have a structural or other biological resemblance to each other. The classic example is the pattern in the bones of vertebrate limbs. In a wide variety of mammal species, example, from bats to whales to horses to people, there’s a consistent pattern of having one bone in the upper part of the limb (our arms or legs), connected to two bones, that are then connected to a series of five bones that have 2 segments in the large bone (thumb, big toe) and 3 segments in the other four. Such so-called “homologous” structures are thought to be evidence of “common descent.” In other words some ancient ancestor of all mammals had this pattern of bones so all the mammals in the world today that are descended from the ancestor inherited this pattern.
VK: Certainly, at least on the surface, that makes sense. So what’s the problem?
RD: The problem is that when Darwin wrote about the support that homology provided for his theory science knew very little about embryology – the study of how life develops following conception. Today, we know a lot more and we now know that the seeming homologous structures in adult animals don’t arise from similar embryological processes or from identical or similar genes. In other words while the adult features seem to be similar they come about from significantly varying developmental processes. This directly conflicts with the notion that the supposedly homologous structures came from a common ancestor because if all the common features were inherited from a common ancestor that ancestor would have passed along its embryological features not just the adult result. There’s a good discussion of this problem in Michael Denton’s book entitled Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Chapter 7 for those who want to study further.
VK: So just like with the fossil record, evidence that is often used to demonstrate the truth of evolution actually has significant scientific problems. Are there any other illustrations of scientific problems with the “particles to people” view of evolution?
RD: There are actually lots of them and Dr. Sarfati discussed a number of them during his time in the Anchored by Truth studio.
VK: For instance?
RD: For instance, just about every proposed mechanism for how life could have arisen from non-living chemicals involves some variation on Darwin’s musings about a “warm little pond” – in other words the notion that the primordial oceans contained a nutrient rich broth that is sometimes termed “pre-biotic soup.” The chemicals necessary for life were supposed to have been present in this soup in such densities that random collision between the right molecules produced abiotic organic compounds that were then used to assemble the first cell or at least the cell’s precursor, whatever that would have been. The existence of these abiotically produced organic compounds is absolutely essential for the scheme to have worked. The problem is that rocks of purportedly great antiquity, by conventional dating, methods have extensively examined and none contain any evidence of these abiotically produced organic compound even the so-called “dawn rocks” of Western Greenland that were supposedly laid down within 3 or 4 hundred million years of the earth’s formation. The same thing is true of all the other rocks of similar antiquity.
VK: So the rocks contain no evidence of this pre-biotic soup and without it the whole origin hypothesis falls apart. But some scientists now believe that the earliest life was formed underwater near these heating vents in the deep ocean.
RD: Yes. That hypothesis is frequently mentioned in ocean exploration programs on one or another science channel. The problem with this theory is that all life depends on very lengthy chains of amino acids that are called polypeptides. Well, polypeptides won’t form in the presence of excess water. Even if the requisite amino acids were present they wouldn’t combine into the lengthy polypeptides so again there’s an absolute chemical barrier to life starting underwater hypothesis.
VK: In other words the difficulties against life having arisen spontaneously from non-living chemicals are starting to stack up like a bricks in a brick wall. Are there any other bricks that are problematic? How about the famous experiments by Stanley Miller and Harold Urey? Didn’t they create the chemicals needed by life when they stimulated a chemical medium with methane, ammonia, hydrogen, and water using electric discharges?
RD: Urey and Miller were successful at creating organic compounds. That much is true. But the good news pretty much ends there.
VK: How so?
RD: First, there is no evidence that the conditions Urey and Miller used in their lab were present in the primordial earth. At a minimum, they used an oxygen free atmosphere because oxidation would quickly break down any organic chemicals that formed. Think rust. But there is evidence of oxidation in supposedly ancient rocks so it’s more likely that the early atmosphere contained oxygen than that it didn’t. Next, amino acids come in two varieties: levorotary and dextrorotary. The amino acids that support life are all levorotary. Dextrorotary forms are lethal. The combination of the two is called a racemate. Miller’s experiments and others since only produce racemates, never pure levorotary amino acids. Third, the amino acids they produced were captured in special traps. If those traps hadn’t been there the amino acids would have broken down before they could be determined to be present. Moreover, Urey and Miller’s experiment where they produced the amino acids wasn’t the first experiment they conducted. They had done others where they didn’t get anything. So, even when they got a result it involved the application of a considerable amount of intelligence. It was the exact opposite of the operation of blind chance.
VK: Wow. That last thought really forces you to think doesn’t it? Even if a team of scientists today were successful at producing life in a test tube or laboratory beaker that wouldn’t demonstrate that life could have formed randomly or chaotically. Because - presumably - the scientists would have been applying intelligent guidance and decision making at every step within their process. And, of course, that’s assuming they had duplicated exactly the conditions on the earth at the time life is supposed to have formed and that is, and always will remain, unknowable. Well, this truly has been a remarkable series and yet we really have only skimmed the surface of all these topics. But the takeaway for the series and as well as from each episode is that faithful, committed Christians can believe in the truth of Genesis without having to give up their confidence in real science. As you would expect of an almighty and all-knowing Creator, He has provided His special revelation in a way that is entirely consistent with the way that He created and sustains the universe. Sounds like a great time to praise our Creator in prayer.
---- PRAYER OF ADORATION FOR THE CREATOR (radio version)
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not famous but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
The Book of Job, chapter 38, verses 4 through 7
The epistle to the Colossians, chapter 15 verses 1 through 17

https://creation.com/right-perspective-interpreting-data

Episode 269 –Bible: Cornerstone and Context 1
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation, Chapter 1, verse 8, New International Version

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VK: Greetings! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re excited to be with you today on Anchored by Truth as we start a new series. It is apparent to anyone who is paying attention to cultural trends that the Christian faith in America has been subjected to more challenges in the last decade than in the first two centuries of the country’s existence. Some of the challenges come from a surrounding culture that has become either indifferent to matters of faith or even outright hostile to the Bible and Christ. And certainly one trend that worries just about every thinking Christian is the increasing level of Biblical ignorance that characterizes not only our society but often the people sitting in the pews. So, RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books, has entitled this series “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” And we have RD who is an in the studio today. RD, why did you decide to do this series?
RD: Well, I’d also like to welcome everyone joining us here today as we begin a new series. As you’ve noted there is widespread Biblical ignorance in our culture today. And often, far too often, that Biblical ignorance extends even into our churches. That’s shameful but it’s also dangerous. You can’t be a Christian without knowing Christ. And you can’t truly know Christ without the Bible. And you can’t be eternally saved without truly knowing Christ. Therefore, it’s not too strong a statement to say that ignorance of the Bible poses a very real danger to people being saved from an eternal perdition. Sadly, I know a lot of Christians who recognize this but still don’t read or study the Bible regularly. And when I talk to them about why they don’t I’ll commonly hear the answer “I just don’t understand the Bible.”
VK: And we can sympathize with that statement at Anchored by Truth. The last book of the Bible, the book of Revelation, was written almost 2,000 years ago. And the first book of the Bible was written 1,500 years before that. So, the Bible was written in a different time. It was also written to a very different group of people. The Old Testament was written and delivered to the Hebrew people and its final book, Malachi, was completed at least 400 years before Jesus was born. And even though the New Testament was written during times and places that are more familiar to modern readers – because it was prepared during the height of the Roman Empire – it still contains references that to us are archaic.
RD: Yes. And this lack of familiarity with the times, places, and peoples of the Bible is just the beginning of the issues that we confront when we try to encourage people to grow in their knowledge of scripture. Another real challenge is that just everybody who comes to the Bible does so without having a cornerstone on which to ground their reading and without having a context into which to place the various accounts, records, poems, and instructions.
VK: And that’s why you called this series “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” We want to give people a framework that will enable them to know how the Bible fits together – and how the Bible fits into their lives and futures.
RD: Yes. For those of us who are concerned about helping people understand that the Bible is the inspired word of God we want them to see that the Bible is not just a collection of stories, historical episodes, and moral and ethical instructions. The Bible is God’s special revelation to the world and most especially, to His people. There’s a big word that theologians use to describe the fact that God wrote the Bible so that people could and would understand it. Theologians will talk about the perspicuity of the Bible. Perspicuity simply means to think, write, or speak clearly. With respect to the Bible perspicuity simply means God wrote in such a way that anyone who comes to it with an open mind, willing heart, and diligent attitude will be able to understand what it is saying. They don’t need special training or education to read it and benefit from it.
VK: But even though you don’t need special training or education to benefit from the Bible people can certainly benefit from having people who have training and education to help them along, right?
RD: Yes, of course. That’s why we’re doing this series. And there are a lot of great Bible study courses and tools available in churches or the internet. Many of these resources are free monetarily. And we would definitely encourage people to take advantage of these helps including previous episodes and series of Anchored by Truth. We want to help people learn the Bible for themselves. But we want to start this series by recognizing that people can develop a deep knowledge of the Bible just by reading the Bible regularly and repeatedly for themselves. That’s why there have been Christians down through the ages like John Newton and John Bunyan who became powerful church leaders even though they had limited formal education before being saved.
VK: Well, one of your concerns is that even people who start out with the best of intentions can be derailed can’t they? You’ve often said that you have known a lot of people who made a resolution to read the Bible from cover to cover but far too many of them don’t make it much past Genesis. Too many people exit their Bible program in the book of Exodus. And many who make it past Exodus are often done in by Leviticus.
RD: Yep. A sincere desire to read the Bible all the way through is great. I started out that way. But it took a lot of dogged determination to get through the Levitical code in Leviticus, the genealogies of Chronicles, and the strange images of Ezekiel. Today, I know how those things fit together. But I certainly didn’t understand them on my first reading.
VK: And that’s okay. People are not likely to understand everything they read the first time they go through the Bible. But persistence in studying the Bible is like farming – time and faithful cultivation will yield results. But also like farming, a little bit of up front knowledge will increase the crop and can yield a bountiful harvest.
RD: Right. Understanding the cornerstone of the Bible can help tremendously – as can having a context in which to fit the information that comes from the various books and stories. We want people to have their minds and hearts illuminated and inspired by the Bible each time they come to it. And that is possible. It is especially possible because the Holy Spirit will personally teach them from the Bible. That’s something that we can say about the Bible that can’t be said about any book that is purely a product of man.
VK: That’s really an amazing thought. The Holy Spirit inspired the people who wrote the Bible. Jesus tells us that even the words and pen strokes of the Bible were inspired. And the Holy Spirit is still available to us today when we come to the Bible. The Holy Spirit, as well as the Father and Son, are eternal. We heard that from our opening scripture from the first chapter of the book of Revelation. God tells us that “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” There are 3 powerful affirmations of God’s eternality and infinitude in just that short verse.
RD: Yes. Alpha is the first letter in Greek alphabet and Omega is the last letter. Saying that He is the alpha and omega is merism.
VK: Merism is a rhetorical term for a pair of contrasting words or phrases (such as near and far, body and soul, life and death) used to express totality or completeness. When Jesus told John in that verse that He was the alpha and omega it was a way of him saying that He is source and beginning of everything and all of history is progressing toward the end that He has ordained. One Biblical commentator, Albert Barnes, puts it this way, “The language here is what would properly denote "eternity" in the being to whom it is applied, and could be used in reference to no one but the true God. It means that he is the beginning and the end of all things; that he was at the commencement, and will be at the close; and it is thus equivalent to saying that he has always existed, and that he will always exist.”
RD: Right. And Barnes’ explanation of that verse is a good example of how knowing the cornerstone of the Bible helps us begin to develop a clear understanding of passages or idioms that may initially be strange to modern readers. Most people today don’t know the Greek alphabet. If they encountered it at all it was probably in the context of the name of a college fraternity or sorority.
VK: Or the name of a character in a superhero movie or video game …
RD: … or a nutritional supplement like “omega 3” fatty acids. So, when they read the words “I am the Alpha and Omega” they may not have a clear idea of what the writer is trying to say. But when you understand that cornerstone of the entire Bible is Jesus – and that Jesus is fully God as well as being fully human – we gain additional clarity about what that passage is communicating to us. But I don’t want to get too far over our skis. We are talking about how people can build a solid understanding of scripture. And certainly one way we can be sure that it is possible to do so is because of scripture’s perspicuity. God wrote scripture with the specific intent that it could be understood.
VK: And then God also gives the indwelling Holy Spirit to further help us. In other words anyone who has a heartfelt desire to know and understand scripture isn’t going to be left to flail about on their own. God will actively aid them in their quest. And one way God can aid them is by good Bible study tools and programs. And you think that another way people can improve their Biblical understanding and comprehension is by starting out with a solid understanding of the cornerstone of scripture: Jesus. And also by having a good contextual framework that will enable them to organize the material they learn. Correct?
RD: Correct. Buildings that have weak cornerstones are not going to stand. Reading the Bible without understanding that Jesus is its cornerstone is not only going to lead to frustration but worse. It is going to lead to gross misunderstandings that can give way to heresy.
VK: And Jesus himself tells us that. In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 21, verse 42 Jesus when Jesus was speaking to the chief priests and elders he said to them: “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?” The scriptures Jesus was quoting was likely Psalm 118, verse 22 which says, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.”

RD: And there are other Old Testament scriptures that reinforce this same point. Isaiah, chapter 28, verse 16 says, “So this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes will never be shaken.’” Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible. It’s fair to say that every book, chapter, and verse in the Bible relies on this fundamental truth in some way. It may not always be immediately obvious how it does so, but some diligent meditation will help us gain insights and that same meditation will certainly improve our overall understanding of scripture.
VK: Can you give us an understanding of what you’re thinking about?
RD: Sure. Certainly, one of the best known stories in the Bible is about Jonah and the whale – or really the Bible just says it was a large fish. Now, it may not seem like this story has much to do with Jesus but it does. Jonah is one of the so-called Minor Prophets which are part of the Old Testament. After his life was saved from drowning by being swallowed by the fish or whale and then disgorged onto dry land, he finally did what God told him to do – go preach to the people of the city of Nineveh which was the capital of the Assyrian Empire. In other words they weren’t Hebrews. When Jonah did so, the whole city was converted. So, on one level the story of Jonah seems to just be about God saving a group of non-Hebrews. But it turns out that when we get to the New Testament book of Matthew we find out that the story of Jonah has profound messianic implications.
VK: You’re referring to the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 16, verses 2 through 4. In that portion of scripture Jesus is confronting a group of Pharisees and Sadducees who are trying to test Jesus to see if Jesus really is the Messiah, the Savior. In response to the demand from the Pharisees and Sadducees that he perform some kind of miracle to prove who he is Jesus “replied, ‘When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.’” The Bible then tells us that “Jesus then left them and went away.”
RD: Yes. So, let’s think about this for a second. At first the story of Jonah doesn’t seem to have much to do with Jesus. But when Jesus actually arrives on the scene we find that it does. The first messianic implication of Jonah was that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days. In Matthew, chapter 12, verse 40, Jesus told his disciples that “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Then, as we just heard, Jesus later told the Sadducees and Pharisees that this was the sign that was going to be given to them when they wondered whether He really was the promised Messiah.
VK: Now, unlike people today, the Sadducees and the Pharisees knew the Old Testament inside and out. They knew exactly what the book of Jonah said – probably some of them could recite it word for word. So, when Jesus told them that the sign they were going to receive that would absolutely prove to them that He was the Messiah they knew, or should have known, that Jesus was telling them that He was going to rise from the dead. That’s what Jonah had done. Jonah should have drowned in the Mediterranean Sea but God saved him by the intervention of the great fish. And when Jonah was delivered onto dry land by the fish it was as if he had come back from the dead. Jonah’s delivery was a miraculous sign that would receive its greater fulfillment in Jesus’ life. Jonah was only in the grip of a seeming death before he came back. Jesus would actually experience death. Jonah needed God’s intervention to save him. Jesus would actually walk out of the tomb by His own power because Jesus is God. And Jonah would go on to preach to save a gentile city. After His resurrection Jesus would commission his Apostles to go out and begin a session of salvation that would reach every tribe, tongue, and nation. All of this is truly amazing.
RD: Right. So, the story of Jonah is just one example of how knowing that Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible helps us understand the Bible’s messages more clearly. We have an advantage that the people who physically heard Jesus speak did not. At that point in history the scriptures consisted only of what we call the Old Testament. And, by the way, that was more than enough for them to be able to know that Jesus was who He claimed to be – the Savior promised by God thousands of years earlier. In other words, the Jews of Jesus’ time had enough in their own scriptures to validate his identity and claims. Their failure to do so wasn’t because they didn’t know enough. It was because they chose not to accept the evidence.
VK: Like a lot of people today.
RD: Sadly, yes. Today we have the complete special revelation of God because we have the New Testament as well as the Old. But many people today still reject the lifesaving message that is contained in them. But that does not need to be the end of the story. Those of us who do know that the Bible contains the words of life still have the opportunity to add our testimony to the Bible’s witness. And one of the best ways we can do that is by improving our own understanding of the Bible’s message. By doing that we are going to be in a far better position to answer questions, assuage doubts, and direct people to the real source of the truth that can transform their lives.
VK: In other words, the better we understand the Bible the better able we are to help others anchor themselves to the Truth. And one way we can improve our understanding of the Bible is to understand the cornerstone of the Bible and then establish a contextual framework to guide our further integration of the Bible’s stores, records, and messages into our scriptural comprehension. And I think that this kind of framework is so necessary today. It might not have been fifty or even twenty years ago, but it is today.
RD: Yep. As we started out saying the Bible was written in a different time and it was written to people with which most of us have little familiarity. So, we will improve our understanding by reading and learning something about those times and places. But we can also improve our biblical comprehension just by knowing how the Bible fits together. Knowing that Jesus is the Bible’s cornerstone is vital but we can’t stop there. Laying the cornerstone is the first step in building the house but we’re still going to get cold and wet if we just stop there.
VK: Said differently, knowing that Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible is necessary but not sufficient to developing a clear understanding of how scripture fits together into a unified whole. We also need the vertical columns and horizontal braces upon which to hang the many, many additional components of a mature faith.
RD: Yep. The Bible is a single book about a single plan about a single man. Even though most Protestant Bible’s contain 66 books, the Bible is a unified whole. It was composed by a single mind who delivered it to the world through the hands of inspired writers. The plan is God’s plan to redeem a people for Himself. It unfolds through time and history, through people and places but everything that happens unfolds according to God’s grand plan. The grand saga of God’s plan unfolds in 3 phases or stages that occur on this earth. There will be a 4th phase that takes place when this present heavens and earth give way to a new heavens and earth. The 3 phases that take place on the current earth are creation, fall, and redemption.
VK: And once people understand this grand plan and see how the grand saga has unfolded they will be better equipped to see how the various parts of scripture fit into that unified whole. They will be able to see that the seemingly tedious aspects of the Levitical code are actually giving us important information about the work and life of the coming Christ. They will see that the genealogies of Genesis, Numbers, and Chronicles are actually quite necessary for us to understand the full relevance of the genealogies of Jesus that will come to us in Luke and Matthew. And they will see that prophetic statements in both the major and minor prophets were essential to the people of Jesus’ day – and our day for that matter – to be assured that Jesus was the Promised Messiah.
RD: Right. The Bible is a single book about a single plan about a single man. The plan is God’s plan of redemption that was made necessary because of man’s rebellion against His infinite Creator after that Creator had created and fitted an ideal habit for His image bearer. Once man rebelled and fell, God had to take affirmative action to make redemption possible. And that redemption and reconciliation could only be possible by God providing a representative that could suitably represent both sides of the transaction. That took a unique Being that was not only perfectly human but also fully divine. And we’ll talk more about that in coming episodes in this series. We will see that Christ is not only the cornerstone of the Bible He is the cornerstone of creation. And Christ will preside over the coming 4th phase of God’s master plan which will be the glorification of God’s redeemed people in a new heavens and a new earth. God’s grand saga has unfolded through millennia. So, of course only an eternal Being could be the centerpiece of such a plan. That’s just one of the reasons our Savior and Messiah had to be both fully God as well as fully man.
VK: So understanding this grand plan and the grand saga enables people to be better equipped to see how the various parts of scripture fit into that unified whole. It gives them a contextual framework to connect the various people, stories, poems, and proverbs into a comprehensible picture. Many people come to scripture essentially as ants. The can only see what is right in front of them at a single moment. We must come to scripture not only as ants but also as eagles who can see a grander vista. Ants are hard-working and scripture commends that. But eagles can see over the horizon and ride the winds to great heights. We must do both as we study scripture. Well, sounds like we’re in for quite a thought-provoking journey. Hopefully, listeners will let others know about this series. It really can be a valuable resource to the skeptic and the believer alike. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for first responders – the men and women who often put their own health and safety at risk to provide for others. This is truly service that goes beyond self and they deserve our support and prayers.
---- PRAYER FOR FIRST RESPONDERS
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New International Version)
Revelation, Chapter 1, verse 8, New International Version

Episode 270 –Bible: Cornerstone and Context 2 – Infinite Salvation
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people.
11 Timothy, Chapter 2, verses 5 and 6, New International Version

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VK: Hello! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re so happy to have you with us today on Anchored by Truth as we continue with the series that we began in our last episode. We’re calling this series “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” Our goal on Anchored by Truth is to help people understand that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God. And one powerful way for people to come to that awareness is for them to realize that the Bible is a pre-eminently reasonable book. Some people may come to the Bible and think that the various books and stories contained in the Bible were just sort of randomly assembled. But nothing could be further from the truth. The Bible is a unified revelation. To help us continue this invaluable discovery, today in the studio we have RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why did you decide to do a series you call “Cornerstone and Context?”
RD: Well, I’d also like to welcome everyone joining us here today as we continue our new series. We’ve talked often on Anchored by Truth that in our day and age there is widespread Biblical ignorance in our culture. And surprisingly that Biblical ignorance extends even into our churches. If you talk to the average person sitting in a pew on Sunday morning and ask them whether they believe the Bible is the word of God the vast majority will say yes. But when you ask them to explain to you why they believe that you get a lot of blank stares. It’s not that they are not sincere in their belief. It’s that all too often they have only a cursory understanding of the faith they claim and even more cursory understanding of the Bible. That’s sad but it’s also perilous – because a Christian who can’t provide a reasoned explanation of what they believe and why they believe it is just chum to the cultural sharks who swarm in school buildings, the media, academia, corporate hallways, and government. Some surveys have said that as many as three-quarters of the kids raised in Christian homes lose their faith when the leave home.
VK: What you’re saying is that our culture is no longer a safe place to be a Christian. While there are a lot of platitudes hurled around that talk about freedom of thought and expression, the truth is that the consistent target for denigration today is evangelical Christianity. Now we shouldn’t be surprised by this. Jesus told us that his people would be a target for the world and the devil. In what may be Jesus’ best-known discourse on the end times he said this: “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.” That’s the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 24, verses 9 through 11.
RD: Yes. Note that in those verses Jesus warned that “many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other.” Since Jesus said that these people would “turn away” that means that for at least some time there would be people who were seemingly His followers, seemingly Christian, but they really weren’t. And the occasion for those people abandoning their false profession of faith was because of persecution. We all need to take Jesus’ warning to heart and make sure that we aren’t among the group that turns away. We need to make sure that we – and our families and friends – are firmly grounded in their faith.
VK: … that they are “anchored by truth” in other words…
RD: Yes - anchored by truth. That’s why we named this show what we did. People with a shallow faith are going to be swept away when waves of persecution come. We’re already seeing that all around us. The fastest growing religious group in America today is the so-called “nones.” These are the people who possess no religious faith.
VK: But that’s really a deceptive label isn’t it. People may say they don’t believe in any religion but they are just lying to themselves. It’s just that they have substituted a false idol for faith in the One True God. And while in our society they are certainly free to do that they are not free to do that without consequences. Because God has been very clear that He will one day call all people to account. The Apostle Paul wrote “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” That’s 2 Corinthians, chapter 5, verse 10. The consequence of people rejecting Christ in this life is that Christ will not recognize them as His people when they stand before Him at judgment.
RD: Yes – and that’s actually what I wanted to talk more about today - salvation. I’d guess that if you asked a lot of Christians to explain exactly how Christ provides salvation to His people we would get a lot of blank stares.
VK: Well, I think a lot of people would say something like “we’re saved by Christ’s death on the cross” or “we’re saved because Jesus took our sins away.”
RD: I think they would and both of those statements are accurate. But they are incomplete in terms of the basis for our salvation. Both of those statements are essentially statements about the result of Christ’s atoning death – and it is a glorious result indeed. But a complete understanding and explanation of how Christ provided salvation to His people means going beyond just the result to the origin of the need for salvation and the process used to bring about the result.
VK: In other words the cornerstone and context of our salvation.
RD: In so many words yes.
VK: Well, I think many people might say “I don’t need to know how I was saved. I just need to know that I am saved.
RD: And that would be unfortunate for a number of reasons but let’s just mention one for today. Studying scripture is not optional for God’s people. In Paul’s epistle to the Philippians he told them to “work out [their] salvation with fear and trembling.” That’s Philippians, chapter 2, verse 12. Now Paul is not telling the Philippians to be afraid of the work. He is telling them that they must be diligent about being obedient to his admonitions and the commands of scripture because expects His people to do their best. We should be afraid of not doing our best for Jesus because as Paul pointed out earlier Jesus gave up a heavenly throne to provide our salvation. In other words, God and Jesus gave us the greatest blessing possible – eternal salvation – but to do that God had to send His only begotten Son to die for us. It’s incumbent on us then to express our gratitude by at least taking the trouble to understand what God did for us. In addition to the instruction God gave to the Philippians Paul also gave his follower Timothy, and us, an express command to study scripture.
VK: You’re thinking of 2 Timothy, chapter 2, verse 15. In the Amplified Bible that verse says, “Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth.”
RD: Right. God commands us to study God’s word, the Bible. And if we do that we will be able to explain not only the result of our salvation but why it was necessary in the first place. And, even more wonderfully, we will be able to explain the true elegance of the plan of redemption.
VK: And one thing that can help everyone with developing a complete understanding of how and why Jesus saved us is by returning to the grand story that the Bible tells. In our last episode of Anchored by Truth we mentioned that the Bible is a single book about a single plan centered on a single man. The plan was God’s plan to redeem a people for Himself. The man who is the center of God’s plan of redemption, and all of history for that matter, is Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible and History. And the grand saga that the Bible relates is a saga of creation, fall, and redemption.
RD: So, one thing that we can immediately see by returning to the big story, the grand saga, is the origin of the need for Jesus to die an atoning death on the cross – the fall of man that occurred in the Garden of Eden. If Adam and Eve had obeyed God’s command to not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil man would never have fallen. So, the origin of the need for the sacrifice of God’s only Son lies in the fall of man that is reported in chapter 3 of the book of Genesis.
VK: If man had not fallen, sin would not have entered the created order. And therefore man would not have to have been redeemed from the consequences of sin. But once man fell, God had to do something to save His elect because if God had done nothing everyone would have been lost.
RD: Correct. So, let’s work our way through the chain of salvation step by step. In chapter 1 of Genesis we hear the overall story of creation. Then in chapter 2 we get more detailed information about how created the pinnacle of creation, man and woman. At the end of chapter 2 everything is good – in fact very good – within the created order.
VK: Sadly, all that changed in the opening verses of chapter 3 of Genesis – because in the first verse of chapter 3 we start to hear about the serpent. The serpent is really the devil in disguise. We learn about that from chapter 12 of the book of Revelation.

RD: So, obviously the devil already existed at that time. And the devil had already rebelled against God and most likely already led a third of the angels into following him. So, in chapter 3 of Genesis we find out that Adam and Eve are now going to be tested to see whether they will be obedient to God or whether they are going to succumb to temptation. And from the fact that Satan presents an initial temptation for Eve to doubt God that she resists we learn that she could have resisted subsequent temptations if she had simply done what she did at first – which was to repeat God’s truth back to Satan when he tempted her.
VK: And we also learn from this encounter that temptation is not sin. We can be tempted and still not sin. I think this confuses a lot of people. They think that just because they are experiencing temptation that they have sinned. But just encountering temptation is not necessarily sinful. Now it may be our sin that leads us to rush into places where we will encounter temptation more readily, but we can also encounter temptation even if we haven’t done that. Temptation is all around us – unfortunately. But just because we are tempted does not mean we have sinned. One of Satan’s favorite tricks is to discourage us by convincing us we sinned when all we really experienced was temptation.
RD: I agree. At any rate Eve did ultimately succumb to Satan’s temptations and Adam followed right along with her. That lapse, that first sin changed everything – not just for mankind but for all of creation. So, at that point man was lost. Man had incurred an infinite debt.
VK: Man is finite creature. All creatures are finite. But God is infinite. So, the consequences of man’s rebellion were infinite because man had offended a Being of infinite proportions and attributes. Even in our society we recognize that the consequences of our action are dependent on not just the offender but the offended. Lie to your neighbor and that may or not be a crime. Lie on a loan application and it is likely a criminal offense. Betray a friend and you’re a false friend. Betray your country and its treason. The severity of an action is dependent on both sides of the transaction.
RD: Yes. So, after Adam and Eve rebelled, sinned, in the Garden of Eden they and all of their children would have been eternally condemned had God not immediately began a plan of redemption. But He did. God immediately announced that Satan’s dark plan for the downfall of man would one day result in Satan’s eternal death. God said that one of Eve’s descendants, the “seed of the woman” as the King James Version puts it, would crush Satan’s head. Crushing the head of a serpent is a fatal blow. But defeating Satan wouldn’t come without cost. The serpent would strike the heel of the One who would crush his head – a painful but not fatal blow.
VK: So, immediately, even before the Bible’s account of the first sin has ended we already have 3 elements that help us begin to understand how Jesus accomplished our salvation. Element number 1 is that the coming hero would be the “seed of a woman” but not of a man. Element number 2 is that whoever this hero is going to be it is going to be a man. Most versions that translate Genesis, chapter 3, verse 15 use the pronoun “he” to talk about the person who is going to crush Satan’s head. And third we can understand that for the curse of sin to be reversed it is going to take a Person of infinite value. As we have said the debt Adam and Eve incurred in the Garden was an infinite debt. And a finite man cannot pay an infinite debt no matter how hard he tries or how long he works.
RD: Right. So, even just knowing the beginning of the grand story is of immense value to understanding how Jesus saved us by his sacrificial death on the cross. We leave the third chapter of the first book of the Bible with three criteria that are going to be true of the coming Messiah. And more criteria will be added as the plan of redemption proceeds. Redemptive history began in the Garden of Eden began there but it most certainly didn’t end there. From chapters 6 through 9 of Genesis we find out that the coming Messiah would be descendant of Noah – because only Noah, his 3 sons, and their wives were the only people who survived the worldwide flood. In chapter 12 of Genesis we find out that the Savior will be a descendent of the patriarch Abraham because God tells Abraham that all the peoples on earth will be blessed through him. And in chapter 14 of Genesis we first hear of the mysterious figure “Melchizedek.” We find out in Psalm 110, verse 4 that this figure Melchizedek is a figure who presages the kind of priest that the Messiah will be.
VK: And we find out that Jesus fulfilled this priestly role by three separate references in the book of Hebrews. Those verses are Hebrews, chapter 5, verse 6, and chapter 7 verses17 and 21. And in scripture a three-fold repetition of something is significant, isn’t it.
RD: Yes. There aren’t many three-fold repetitions of words or phrases in scripture they are always used by God as a form of emphasis. In the case of the Messiah God was telling the Jews that the Messiah would be not only be a priest but also a king. He was also telling them that the Messiah would not be from the priestly tribe of Levi. And God continued to add criteria and attributes throughout the Old Testament that would allow the Jews and the world to know Jesus was the Messiah when Jesus arrived in the world. Jesus would be born in Bethlehem, enter Jerusalem on a donkey’s colt, be crucified between two thieves, buried in a rich man’s tomb, but rise again to sit at the right hand of God. All of these signs of the Messiah, and others, were given to the Jews in their scriptures were fulfilled in Jesus’ life.
VK: And the point is that because we know that God’s grand plan and the big story of the Bible is all about creation, fall, and redemption we can trace a consistent path through the Old Testament. Immediately after the fall God told Adam and Eve that a Deliverer would come and God immediately gave them distinctive criteria that would mark the Messiah. So, by getting a firm grasp on the larger context in which all the various events, stories, and prophecies of the Old Testament are set we can see the progress of redemptive history. When God gives a new criteria that will mark the life of the Messiah, like being born of a virgin, we can look and see if we have evidence that that criteria was fulfilled in the life of Jesus. Context keeps the lights on for our pathway. So, by keeping the larger context in mind we can better organize our study to ensure we get the most out of time with scripture.
RD: Yep. So, now let’s start to put all these ideas together and see God’s perfect elegance in both establishing the plan of salvation and then shepherding it to completion. God warned Adam and Eve that if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would die.
VK: In other words, the consequence of disobedience was death. Or as the Apostle Paul said in Romans, chapter 6, verse 23 “the wages of sin is death.”
RD: Yep. Well, Adam and Eve did eat from the forbidden tree and they experienced death. Not only did they die but everyone who would descend from them would also die. The curse of death, the sting of death, would have been an eternal part of the created order if God had not intervened.
VK: And God had to intervene – because man had incurred an infinite debt to God. And as we have said a finite man cannot pay an infinite debt. The only Infinite Being that exists is God. So, God had to figure out how to pay that infinite debt if any people were ever to be saved. Man’s sin estranged man from God. Restoration required reconciliation. But man couldn’t do what was necessary for reconciliation. Only God could. And God did.
RD: And this is where our opening scripture fills in a key thought. In our opening scripture from 1 Timothy Paul tells Timothy that “there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” A mediator must be capable of representing both sides of a transaction. So, the mediator between God and man had to be able to represent both God and man.
VK: Which is why the 2nd Person of the Trinitarian Godhead had to take on a human nature. This is the miracle of the incarnation. Biologically speaking Jesus was born of Mary but the baby in Mary’s womb had actually resulted from the Holy Spirit coming “on her” as most translations put it. Now we don’t understand exactly how the Holy Spirit did but an infinite God who created the entire universe and all life in the universe wouldn’t have any trouble creating a baby in a virgin’s womb. So, Jesus was the Son of a human mother but in a very real sense He was also the Son of a Divine Father.
RD: Yep. Because God brought Jesus into the created order the way He did Jesus came equipped to be the mediator to reconcile man to God.
VK: What remained was for Jesus to live a “spotless” life because a Perfect God can only accept a perfect sacrifice. And Jesus did live a sinless life, a perfect life before God. This fulfilled the Covenant Works which Adam and Eve had violated in the Garden.
RD: Yep. And that sinless Jesus died unjustly on a Roman cross fulfilling the mandated consequence that death be the wage paid for sin.
VK: But Jesus had no sin of His own. He did not need to pay the price for His own sin. That meant that He could pay for our sins. And since Jesus is fully God as well as fully man his sacrificial death had infinite value. And all of this had been clearly set forth in the Old Testament as the way that God would redeem His people. Most of the Jews of Jesus day, including the religious elites did not understand it. A few did but not many. So, in the New Testament the writers began to unpack the Old Testament prophecies in sufficient details to make it clear. Sounds like the religious elites could have done well to understand the cornerstone and context.
RD: Quite possibly. We are fortunate in a way that the elites in 1st century Israel were not. We have the New Testament as well as the Old. We now understand exactly how Jesus fulfilled the role of being a priest forever according to Melchizedek because an inspired writer has spelled it out for us. And we understand that there will be two comings of the Messiah. The first coming was as the suffering Servant, the sacrificial Lamb. The second coming will be as the Conquering Lion. We can see clearly the meaning of ideas and themes that they could only perceive dimly. That’s a huge blessing. But it is no blessing at all if we neglect to use the scriptures that God has provided. But when we do we see that far from our Christian faith being a “leap in the dark” what we are actually doing is placing our faith in the abundant evidence that God has supplied. And if we understand the evidence we can explain it to others. That’s how we fulfill the Great Commission Jesus gave in Matthew 28 to make disciples of all nations.
VK: Well, our thought-provoking journey into the cornerstone and context of the Bible continues. It should be a great encouragement to everyone to know that God never expected us to turn off our brains while we follow our hearts in response to His outreach of love. Hopefully, listeners will let others know about this series. It really can be a valuable resource to the skeptic and the believer alike. This sounds like a great time to pray. Today let’s listen to a prayer for the celebration of the day that our Lord rose out the earth by His own power. In doing so He conquered death for all who would place their trust in Him as Lord and Savior. Because of Jesus’ resurrection we can boldly ask “O grave where is your victory? O death where is your sting?” And the answer we receive is that they are gone and we will live eternally in the light of God’s blessed radiance.
---- PRAYER FOR EASTER
VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”
If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”
(Bible Quotes from the New Living Translation)
1 Samuel, Chapter 17, verses 5 through 7, New Living Translation
https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/8/4/1
https://patternsofevidence.com/2018/10/26/david-battles-goliath/)

Episode 271 –Bible: Cornerstone and Context 3 – Timeless Themes
Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.
Script:
This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham was the father of Isaac … .
The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 1, verses 1 and 2, New International Version

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VK: Greetings! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re glad to be back with you on Anchored by Truth as we continue with our series that we call “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books, is with us again today as we continue our discussion of how people can improve their understanding of the Bible by developing a contextual framework to guide their reading and study. RD, the Bible has a vast variety of material. It contains records of history, inspirational poetry, practical admonitions, moral and ethical commands, and even entertaining stories. All of this material can be engaging and valuable even when we just focus on the individual instruction or report. So, why do think that it is so important for Bible students to take the time to see a bigger picture?
RD: Well, I’d also like to welcome everyone joining us here today as we continue our discussion on the cornerstone and context of the Bible. As you’ve noted there’s a wide variety of material in the Bible and even a wide variety of literary genres. The Bible has poems, proverbs, parables, allegories, as well as history and prophecy. And – also as you have noted – we can gain a lot just by learning about individual episodes of the Bible heroes like David with Goliath or Daniel in the lion’s den. And certainly many of the individual psalms are inspirational and comforting just as the individual proverbs contain practical advice that will help people live better lives. But as valuable as all this material can be when considered separately when we see how it is all part of God’s grand plan for His people I think the individual episodes take on even more meaning. As we see God’s overall plan for the created order it increases our ability to glorify Him through our lives and testimonies.
VK: And that should be the central focus of every Christian life. One of the major confessional creeds says that the chief purpose of man is to “glorify God and enjoy Him forever.”
RD: Yes. It’s certainly important to learn from each part of scripture. But it is also important to be able to see the larger tapestry of scripture where the individual threads and features form a larger and more inspiring whole. And the first step in being able to do is to certainly see that Jesus is present in each and every part of the tapestry. Or to return to other metaphor Jesus is the cornerstone of scripture.
VK: And we started out talking about Jesus as the cornerstone in our first two episodes in this series. In our first episode we pointed out that even in famous Old Testament stories that don’t seem to relate to Jesus such as Jonah and the whale Jesus was being foreshadowed. And in our second episode we talked about the elegance of the way in which Jesus’ attributes and work made Him the perfect – in fact the only possible – Mediator between God and man.
RD: Yes. When Adam and Eve rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden they violated the Covenant of Works which God had established with them. This left the covenant unsatisfied and incurred a debt with infinite consequences. Jesus came to address both of these concerns. He lived a sinless life. He fulfilled the Covenant of Works. So, he never needed to die for His own sin. This meant that when He willingly sacrificed Himself He could atone for the sins of others. Moreover, since Jesus was fully divine as well as being fully human He is a Being of infinite value. His death was infinitely valuable. Therefore, he could satisfy the infinite debt that man had created for himself.
VK: But Jesus’ death is only of value for those who are willing to trust Him. As you put it in the title of one of your books, Christ is The Prodigal’s Advocate. We are all prodigals. We all need an advocate to face the perfect bar of God’s justice. Without an advocate we will be left to defend ourselves – a futile effort if there ever was one. But Jesus will gladly serve as our advocate if we will let him. The choice is ours. So, are the consequences of our choice.
RD: Right. So, today I want to build on the foundation we have established. I want to build on the fact that Jesus is the cornerstone of scripture.

VK: Greetings! Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re happy to be back with you on Anchored by Truth as we continue with our series that we call “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books, is with us again today as we continue our discussion of how people can grow in their Biblical literacy by knowing the cornerstone of scripture and then developing a contextual framework to guide further reading and study. In our first two episodes in this series we learned that – unsurprisingly – Christ Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible. In fact, Jesus is the cornerstone of creation since the Bible makes it clear that everything that exists was created by Jesus. The New International Version of Colossians, chapter 1, verses 16 and 17 say this. “All things have been created through [Jesus] and for [Jesus]. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together …” That’s a pretty clear statement. And other scriptures build on this foundational concept, don’t they RD?
RD: Well, I’d also like to greet everyone joining us here today as we continue our discussion on the cornerstone and context of the Bible. Yes. There are a number of scriptures that affirm that Jesus is not only the cornerstone of creation but also the cornerstone of God’s plan of redemption. And Jesus himself tells us that. In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 21, verse 42 when Jesus was speaking to the chief priests and elders he said to them: “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?” Jesus was quoting was likely Psalm 118, verse 22 which says, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.” And there are other Old Testament scriptures that reinforce this same point. Isaiah, chapter 28, verse 16 says, “So this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes will never be shaken.’” The Bible is abundantly clear that Jesus is its cornerstone.
VK: Let’s remind everyone that the Bible is a single book about a single plan centered on a single man. The Bible contains a great many books but they all relate to a single, grand saga – the saga of creation, fall, and redemption. Jesus is the cornerstone and centerpiece of the plan of redemption. It is impossible to understand the Bible correctly without understanding Jesus’ foundational role. So, that’s a great place to begin to understand how all scripture fits together in a unified whole but it’s not enough by itself, is it?

VK: Greetings! Welcome to Anchored by Truth sponsored for you by Crystal Sea Books. I’m Victoria K. We’re happy to have you back with us on Anchored by Truth as we continue a series we are calling “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” We are offering this series because we believe a contextual framework that guides Bible reading and study aids the assimilation of the priceless wisdom the Bible contains. In our first couple of episodes in this series we learned that Christ Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible. In fact, Jesus is the cornerstone of creation. The Bible makes it very clear that everything that exists was created by Jesus. Knowing that Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible is essential to our understanding but we think it’s important to build a solid Biblical structure on that foundation. And one way to do that is by having a contextual framework that helps us see the Bible as a unified whole. As we have said, the Bible is a single story about a single plan centered on a single man. So, back with us today as we continue our discussion is RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, in our last couple of episodes we began talking about how to develop an integrated context into which we can fit all the various elements of scripture. Can you give us a brief summary of some of the material we’ve discussed related to context?
RD: Well, before we get too far into our discussion I would also like to welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. In our last couple of episodes we have introduced the idea that there are at least 4 themes that are woven throughout the Old Testament. The 4 themes are the preparation of the world for the arrival of the Messiah, Christ Jesus; the preparation of a family that would actually give birth to the Messiah; the restraint of sin; and the promotion of holiness and abundant living. 2 of these 4 themes continue on into the New Testament because is always concerned about the restraint of sin and that His children live holy and abundant lives. But once Jesus, the Messiah, actually arrived in the world there was no need to continue to prepare for his arrival. So, whereas in the Old Testament there was a lot of attention paid to preparing for Jesus’ first coming, in the New Testament attention shifts to preparations for Jesus’ second coming – his return to earth.
VK: Let’s remind everyone that the Bible is a single book about a single plan centered on a single man. The Bible contains a great many books but they all relate to a single, grand saga – the saga of creation, fall, and redemption. Jesus is the cornerstone and centerpiece of the plan of redemption. It is impossible to understand the Bible correctly without understanding Jesus’ foundational role. So, it makes perfect sense that the Bible’s 2 major parts, the Old Testament and New Testament, would each focus on Jesus. The Old Testament focuses on Jesus’ first coming. But once Jesus came many things that were only hinted at in the Old Testament came into sharp focus. It was as if mists had cleared. We could now see things more clearly – things such as how the Messiah could be both the “Lamb of God” and “the lion of the tribe of Judah” and how some prophetic structures in the Old Testament would be fulfilled in the first coming but others would await a later fulfillment. In his first coming Jesus came to effect salvation for the elect. In his second coming Jesus will glorify the elect so mankind can again assume the Dominion Mandate that was given in the Garden of Eden.

This is episode 273.

We’re so happy to be back with you on Anchored by Truth as we continue a series we are call “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” This series is designed to help our listeners absorb the Bible’s timeless wisdom more readily. The Bible contains a wide variety of literature types including history, prophecy, poetry, and practical principles. But despite the many type of literature in the Bible, it is a unified whole. As we have said throughout this series, the Bible is a single story about a single plan centered on a single man. The Bible contains a remarkable unity which demonstrates clearly that it is the product of an omniscient mind. The Bible is the special revelation of that Mind to men and women. Why would God have gone to so much trouble? As is often said, God did it for our good and His glory. So, back with us today as we continue the discussion is RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, what is the cornerstone of the Bible. And what are some of the themes that provide a context we can use to better understand the Bible – the themes that weave throughout scripture and create a beautiful tapestry out of the threads that are the individual books and accounts?
RD: Well, before we get too far into our discussion I would also like to say hello and welcome everyone to this episode of Anchored by Truth. We’re so happy that you’re with us today. I hope that most people would know – even if they have not been following our series – that Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible. It’s impossible to make sense out of the Bible unless you build your understanding upon that essential truth. But as philosophers and scientists sometimes say knowing that Jesus is the cornerstone of the Bible is necessary but not sufficient to build a comprehensive understanding of scripture. So, in our last few episodes on Anchored by Truth we discussed the idea that there are at least 4 themes that are woven throughout the Old Testament. The 4 themes are the preparation of the world for the arrival of the Messiah, Christ Jesus; the preparation of a family that would actually give birth to the Messiah; the restraint of sin; and the promotion of holiness and abundant living. 2 of these 4 themes continue on into the New Testament because is always concerned about the restraint of sin and that His children live holy and abundant lives. But once Jesus came the New Testament writers shift their attention to preparations for Jesus’ second coming – his return to earth. So, in addition to the two themes that carried over from the Old Testament, a new theme emerges in the New – the preparation of the world and especially the church for Christ’s second coming to earth.

This is episode 275.

This is our 8th episode in a series we are calling “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” Just about everyone who has spent much time with the Bible quickly realizes that the Bible is home to a wide variety of literature types including history, prophecy, poetry, and practical principles. But these many different types of literature do not take away from the Bible’s unity. The Bible is a unified whole. The unity and harmony that bind the Bible demonstrate clearly that it is the product of an omniscient mind, God’s mind. The various books of the Bible were penned by their various human authors during a period that stretched over 1,500 years. Only an eternal Being who knew all human history from beginning to end could have inspired the human writers over such a period. This is one of the reasons that it is so helpful for us to have a firm framework to guide our study and understanding. To help us with our discussion is RD Fierro, an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, you will hear some people talk about “systematic theology.” What is systematic theology?

This is episode 276.

This is our 9th episode in this series which is entitled “The Bible: Cornerstone and Context.” As we have gone through this series we have seen that Jesus is the not only the cornerstone of the Bible but he is the cornerstone of creation and history. Not surprisingly, the Bible is the only book that helps to clearly see and understand Jesus’ role as the cornerstone of everything that exists. And part of the way scripture helps us to do that is that scripture has several clear and consistent themes that are woven throughout the Bible. Two themes that weave throughout the Bible are the restraint of sin and the promotion of abundant and holy living. Two themes that are ever present in the Old Testament are the preparation of a tribe and family that would produce a Messiah and the preparation of the world to receive the Messiah. Then, in the New Testament – after the Messiah has come for the first time, a new theme emerges. And that is the preparation of the world and cosmos for the Messiah’s second and final arrival on this earth. Today we’re going to begin the wrap up of the series. To help us as we begin the wrap we have RD Fierro back with us in the studio. RD is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, Jesus is the cornerstone of scripture and God gave us consistent themes throughout all the books of the Bible to help us understand that.

This is episode 277.

You can find more information here: http://www.crystalseabooks.com/

You can find more information here: http://www.crystalseabooks.com/

You can find more information here: http://www.crystalseabooks.com/